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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1704
   |
Posted - 2014.01.29 13:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
201
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 13:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
For a real tanker all of these militia noob tanks are just easy pickings.
I quite enjoy smashing them left and right and then getting to the real battles VS the other good tankers out there. I have been learning a lot the last few weeks.
Oh and to all AV guys I feel your pain, though get a forge gunner or two or a forger and a swarmer and using a decent spot on the map you can cause tanks much pain. Otherwise leave it to a tanker to dispatch of that militia HAV infestation. It is almost like PVE to be honest =D |
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1714
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 13:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out?
They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem.
Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
496
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 13:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out?
In all honesty, I see the problem being the rails themselves coupled with damage mods to be the problem for vehicles. A milita tanker should not be able to 2 shot a 10 mil invested tanker. They should have to WORK for that kill. Rails are not balanced atm.
For infantry, it's a blaster, coupled with hardeners. Basically, it's like a giant AR in a suit immune to conventional weapons.
I think changes to the rails and blasters, would put milita tanks in their place. As an actual SP invested tanker, I really don't struggle with milita tanks, but every now and again, one will 2 shot me leaving me saying WTF. But that's an issue with the rails, and I don't think heat cost is going to fix that.
All they need are 2 shots to begin with.
And a blaster, depending on the suit it is hitting, only needs to roughly land 4 to 14 shots on a suit. So unless the heat cost limits them to a max of 20 shots, I don't think it will have the impact that is needed. Not to mention, you only need a few seconds to cool down before you start firing again.
Nuff Said
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1704
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 13:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all.
So I offer a solution that affects only MLT tanks, and that's not good enough for you, because it doesn't nerf tanks as a whole. It's not taking away blasters, it's not making turrets cost 1mil ISK again, it's not yet again making them cost more SP, or easier to kill, or buffing AV. It's changing something that only effects the MLT tag, and that's not good enough for you.
Stuff yourself
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1704
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 13:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? In all honesty, I see the problem being the rails themselves coupled with damage mods to be the problem for vehicles. A milita tanker should not be able to 2 shot a 10 mil invested tanker. They should have to WORK for that kill. Rails are not balanced atm. For infantry, it's a blaster, coupled with hardeners. Basically, it's like a giant AR in a suit immune to conventional weapons. I think changes to the rails and blasters, would put milita tanks in their place. As an actual SP invested tanker, I really don't struggle with milita tanks, but every now and again, one will 2 shot me leaving me saying WTF. But that's an issue with the rails, and I don't think heat cost is going to fix that. All they need are 2 shots to begin with. And a blaster, depending on the suit it is hitting, only needs to roughly land 4 to 14 shots on a suit. So unless the heat cost limits them to a max of 20 shots, I don't think it will have the impact that is needed. Not to mention, you only need a few seconds to cool down before you start firing again.
Of course it's immune to conventional weapons, it's a tank!!! It's like the Civil War, the Ironclads were a whole new animal. Wood hull ships went down easily. Regular dropships already easily outrun swarms, what do you think infantry will do when fighters are introduced, that will probably fly faster than dropships?
"CCP, these fighters are too fast for my swarms, nerf their speed!"
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
903
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 13:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all.
Hai!!! He is complaining about Missile turrets now cause his Redlining Armor Rail tank can't fight a missile tank lol
Nice try though... |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1704
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 13:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all. Hai!!! He is complaining about Missile turrets now cause his Redlining Armor Rail tank can't fight a missile tank lol Nice try though...
I'm.............. complaining about missiles????????? Have you fallen on your head recently?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
|
Vitharr Foebane
Living Like Larry Schwag
548
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 13:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all. So I offer a solution that affects only MLT tanks, and that's not good enough for you, because it doesn't nerf tanks as a whole. It's not taking away blasters, it's not making turrets cost 1mil ISK again, it's not yet again making them cost more SP, or easier to kill, or buffing AV. It's changing something that only effects the MLT tag, and that's not good enough for you. Stuff yourself
Of course it's not good enough, as it removes one of the FEW COUNTERS TANKS HAVE LEFT! Oh look a swarm *turns on hardener guns av down* Oh look a forge *turns on hardeners guns av down* jihad jeeps mlt tanks, and oh another std tank are the only hard counters left for tanks as they wonder around butchering infantry with impunity and YOU WANT TO CASTRATE MILITIA HAVS NEXT?! We don't need a militia tank nerf to end tank spam we need AV TO DO IT'S D*MN JOB.
Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3
That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
|
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
904
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:NAV HIV wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all. Hai!!! He is complaining about Missile turrets now cause his Redlining Armor Rail tank can't fight a missile tank lol Nice try though... I'm.............. complaining about missiles????????? Have you fallen on your head recently?
Yup was trying to use a swarm earlier... And i slipped |
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1704
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all. So I offer a solution that affects only MLT tanks, and that's not good enough for you, because it doesn't nerf tanks as a whole. It's not taking away blasters, it's not making turrets cost 1mil ISK again, it's not yet again making them cost more SP, or easier to kill, or buffing AV. It's changing something that only effects the MLT tag, and that's not good enough for you. Stuff yourself Of course it's not good enough, as it removes one of the FEW COUNTERS TANKS HAVE LEFT! Oh look a swarm *turns on hardener guns av down* Oh look a forge *turns on hardeners guns av down* jihad jeeps mlt tanks, and oh another std tank are the only hard counters left for tanks as they wonder around butchering infantry with impunity and YOU WANT TO CASTRATE MILITIA HAVS NEXT?! We don't need a militia tank nerf to end tank spam we need AV TO DO IT'S D*MN JOB.
As far as I know, infantry doesn't carry the M388.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
|
Blaze Ashra
DROID EXILES
General Tso's Alliance
156
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
There are no large militia missile turrets. As far as the large missile turrets, sure it has the highest burst damage but it also has longest period of vulnerability, whereas rails have virtually none. Blasters are gonna **** infantry no matter what but that range is ridiculous.
I don't think tanks are OP other than redlining rail cowards, I just think that swarms, proximity mines, plasma cannons and possibly AV grenades need a buff. Militia tanks are fine, tanks are fine, and jihad jeeps are fine. No need to mess with the prices, stats or controls for any of them.
If they do go about nerfing them, then I hope they take takahiros suggestion of making tiered modules increase in effectiveness as they go up.
ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
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Vitharr Foebane
Living Like Larry Schwag
551
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all. So I offer a solution that affects only MLT tanks, and that's not good enough for you, because it doesn't nerf tanks as a whole. It's not taking away blasters, it's not making turrets cost 1mil ISK again, it's not yet again making them cost more SP, or easier to kill, or buffing AV. It's changing something that only effects the MLT tag, and that's not good enough for you. Stuff yourself Of course it's not good enough, as it removes one of the FEW COUNTERS TANKS HAVE LEFT! Oh look a swarm *turns on hardener guns av down* Oh look a forge *turns on hardeners guns av down* jihad jeeps mlt tanks, and oh another std tank are the only hard counters left for tanks as they wonder around butchering infantry with impunity and YOU WANT TO CASTRATE MILITIA HAVS NEXT?! We don't need a militia tank nerf to end tank spam we need AV TO DO IT'S D*MN JOB. As far as I know, infantry doesn't carry the M388.
The fact that you feel that your tank shouldn't die to anything less than a nuclear device says more about your twisted idea of "balance" than you can possibly imagine.
Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3
That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1704
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:As far as I know, infantry doesn't carry the M388.
The fact that you feel that your tank shouldn't die to anything less than a nuclear device says more about your twisted idea of "balance" than you can possibly imagine.[/quote]
Lol don't you think nukes would be chump change 20,000 years in the future?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
|
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
908
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:As far as I know, infantry doesn't carry the M388. The fact that you feel that your tank shouldn't die to anything less than a nuclear device says more about your twisted idea of "balance" than you can possibly imagine.
Lol don't you think nukes would be chump change 20,000 years in the future? [/quote]
Expecting proper balancing solution from Spkr would be like expecting to see a Unicorn... Oh wait! We have Charlotte too... |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1704
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:I quit tanking because it was too hard for me.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
|
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1716
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all. So I offer a solution that affects only MLT tanks, and that's not good enough for you, because it doesn't nerf tanks as a whole. It's not taking away blasters, it's not making turrets cost 1mil ISK again, it's not yet again making them cost more SP, or easier to kill, or buffing AV. It's changing something that only effects the MLT tag, and that's not good enough for you. Stuff yourself
I don't want Blasters removed
I don't want tanks to millions of isk
I don't want just MLT tanks nerfed
I want all tanks balanced, does not occur to you that if you nerf only mlt tanks you are making standard tanks stronger.
Not only will a standard tank be capable of surving multiple proto AV attempts it will also now survive everything but a team of mlt tanks.
How you can't understand as this being a bad thing is beyond me, .
MLT TANKS ARE NOT THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM, ALL TANKS ARE THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4168
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:Spkr4TheDead wrote:As far as I know, infantry doesn't carry the M388. The fact that you feel that your tank shouldn't die to anything less than a nuclear device says more about your twisted idea of "balance" than you can possibly imagine. Lol don't you think nukes would be chump change 20,000 years in the future? Fixed.
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4170
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Come on guys. Be gentle with Spkr.
His idea may cause more problems than it fixes, but he at least admitted that MLT HAVs are broken.
We're making progress here...
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
910
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:NAV HIV wrote:I quit tanking because it was too hard for me.
I Didn't quit tanking... I Still carry a Madrugar with Proto Modules+ Turret around (not like i have to go to a supply depot to call in one or recall one).. Just feel cheap using it... I'm not like you... Spec into a proto Swarm and AV nades and try taking my tank out with it ... I use blasters, so i wont be hiding behind a redline...
Till then, don't act like you know the First thing about AV vs Tank balance |
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2771
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rather than remove/nerf MLT tanks which are currently the main counter to STD tanks, let's ADD more counters.
More game content and play options rather than less.
Add eWar and stasis weapons. Add a true gunship the equivilant of the A10-Warthog that is a natural predictor for tanks. |
Vitharr Foebane
Living Like Larry Schwag
554
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
you know what else is chump change Spkr? this curious device that flings metal slugs at Mach 20.5714 what's it called oh yea A F*CKING FORGE GUN. Hits way harder than any portable nuclear device ever could through sheer kinetic force alone.
Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3
That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2132
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
If you nerf MLT tanks, then non tankers have nothing to fight tanks with.
If you leave MLT tanks alone, then spam continues.
The only thing that can help is introducing a counter to MLT tanks in the form of buffing AV.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
910
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:If you nerf MLT tanks, then non tankers have nothing to fight tanks with.
If you leave MLT tanks alone, then spam continues.
The only thing that can help is introducing a counter to MLT tanks in the form of buffing AV.
That ^ + 1 |
Vitharr Foebane
Living Like Larry Schwag
554
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Atiim wrote: Come on guys. Be gentle with Spkr.
His idea may cause more problems than it fixes, but he at least admitted that MLT HAVs are broken.
We're making progress here...
Progress? More like he wants the last bits of resistance of non tankers removed so that he can fully enjoy his status as TANK MASTER RACE.
Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3
That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
915
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:Atiim wrote: Come on guys. Be gentle with Spkr.
His idea may cause more problems than it fixes, but he at least admitted that MLT HAVs are broken.
We're making progress here... Progress? More like he wants the last bits of resistance of non tankers removed so that he can fully enjoy his status as TANK MASTER RACE.
There are good tankers, who kicked ass even before 1.7 going back to heat seeking swarms that would chase you all around the map and then there are the likes of spkr who cries about everything that tickles them... What a joke... Not TANK MASTER RACE... More LIKE LOL MASTER RACE... |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1248
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
I think that a better idea would be to remove the rapid fire function of the railgun.
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4173
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Posted - 2014.01.29 14:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:Atiim wrote: Come on guys. Be gentle with Spkr.
His idea may cause more problems than it fixes, but he at least admitted that MLT HAVs are broken.
We're making progress here... Progress? More like he wants the last bits of resistance of non tankers removed so that he can fully enjoy his status as TANK MASTER RACE.
But, he did admit that they were broken.
Admittance is the first step...
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
210
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Posted - 2014.01.29 14:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:If you nerf MLT tanks, then non tankers have nothing to fight tanks with.
If you leave MLT tanks alone, then spam continues.
The only thing that can help is introducing a counter to MLT tanks in the form of buffing AV.
There is logi behind this post.
I also suggest - rework the redline. That will help alleviate a lot of problems. Then - the low level swarms do certianly need a little bit more damage.
Also large blasters have to decimate infantry - its their job. Rails will be their counter as would missile tanks though missile tanks are a whole wild card I find.
Large blasters probably need to lose a little bit range. Not a huge amount but a little bit. Or possibly dispersion with skills to reduce dispersion? Humm that's not a bad idea?
Tanks could probably do with a little less speed but not too much, I don't want them nerfed into death traps. With a bit of reason and discussion we can fix everything guys. |
Harpyja
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
1146
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Posted - 2014.01.29 15:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all. So I offer a solution that affects only MLT tanks, and that's not good enough for you, because it doesn't nerf tanks as a whole. It's not taking away blasters, it's not making turrets cost 1mil ISK again, it's not yet again making them cost more SP, or easier to kill, or buffing AV. It's changing something that only effects the MLT tag, and that's not good enough for you. Stuff yourself Of course it's not good enough, as it removes one of the FEW COUNTERS TANKS HAVE LEFT! Oh look a swarm *turns on hardener guns av down* Oh look a forge *turns on hardeners guns av down* jihad jeeps mlt tanks, and oh another std tank are the only hard counters left for tanks as they wonder around butchering infantry with impunity and YOU WANT TO CASTRATE MILITIA HAVS NEXT?! We don't need a militia tank nerf to end tank spam we need AV TO DO IT'S D*MN JOB.
Please tell me how many militia HAVs you see versus standard HAVs. For about every 10 militia HAVs I destroy, I destroy one standard HAV. If only some good investment was needed for an effective HAV, the majority of the tank spammers out there will be gone and only the few dedicated tankers will remain.
Though I disagree with Spkr and agree with Tebu that it's more or less the railguns that are too powerful. They are the counter for everything. I want there to be more thought going into vehicle based AV: take a missile tank and destroy that rail tank at CQC (regardless if it's shield or not) or snipe that enemy tank at range with a railgun (it's intended use). Right now railguns win 80% of the time at CQC.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2772
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Posted - 2014.01.29 15:22:00 -
[31] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all. So I offer a solution that affects only MLT tanks, and that's not good enough for you, because it doesn't nerf tanks as a whole. It's not taking away blasters, it's not making turrets cost 1mil ISK again, it's not yet again making them cost more SP, or easier to kill, or buffing AV. It's changing something that only effects the MLT tag, and that's not good enough for you. Stuff yourself Of course it's not good enough, as it removes one of the FEW COUNTERS TANKS HAVE LEFT! Oh look a swarm *turns on hardener guns av down* Oh look a forge *turns on hardeners guns av down* jihad jeeps mlt tanks, and oh another std tank are the only hard counters left for tanks as they wonder around butchering infantry with impunity and YOU WANT TO CASTRATE MILITIA HAVS NEXT?! We don't need a militia tank nerf to end tank spam we need AV TO DO IT'S D*MN JOB. Please tell me how many militia HAVs you see versus standard HAVs. For about every 10 militia HAVs I destroy, I destroy one standard HAV. If only some good investment was needed for an effective HAV, the majority of the tank spammers out there will be gone and only the few dedicated tankers will remain. Though I disagree with Spkr and agree with Tebu that it's more or less the railguns that are too powerful. They are the counter for everything. I want there to be more thought going into vehicle based AV: take a missile tank and destroy that rail tank at CQC (regardless if it's shield or not) or snipe that enemy tank at range with a railgun (it's intended use). Right now railguns win 80% of the time at CQC.
See, that's the issue. Absent militia tanks very few folks will have the opportunity to try out that play style due to the huge barrier to entry, leaving a few beta vets all alone at the top. Every class needs a relatively cheap way to get started. |
Jake Diesel
BIG BAD W0LVES
74
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Posted - 2014.01.29 15:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem.
[/quote]
And I thought I was the only one who noticed this. In a game of 16 vs 16, it blew me away when I found out that each team can call in 7 tanks in a match. That's more than half of a team! In my opinion, the max tanks that should be allowed per team at one time is 3-4.
Too much has been focused on "solo" tanking that there's no need for infantry to support them on an assault. And no one uses the small turrets anymore. Pretty much non-existent.
I back in 1.6, a well fitted tank could roll into a hotzone and take 7 Ishukone forge gun hits and roll away with 30% armor before reps kicked in. It took two forgers to take these types of tanks out because they were that strong. And it didn't need fast speed to survive.
Tanks need to be slow, powerful, and expensive. But not $2,000,000 expensive! If they brought back the tanks of 1.6, made them around $700,000 to $1,000,000 per tank, maybe slightly cheaper, lower the amount of tanks available to call in, we'd be closer to where it should be.
Tanks would rely on infantry for support!
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Vitharr Foebane
Living Like Larry Schwag
559
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Posted - 2014.01.29 16:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all. So I offer a solution that affects only MLT tanks, and that's not good enough for you, because it doesn't nerf tanks as a whole. It's not taking away blasters, it's not making turrets cost 1mil ISK again, it's not yet again making them cost more SP, or easier to kill, or buffing AV. It's changing something that only effects the MLT tag, and that's not good enough for you. Stuff yourself Of course it's not good enough, as it removes one of the FEW COUNTERS TANKS HAVE LEFT! Oh look a swarm *turns on hardener guns av down* Oh look a forge *turns on hardeners guns av down* jihad jeeps mlt tanks, and oh another std tank are the only hard counters left for tanks as they wonder around butchering infantry with impunity and YOU WANT TO CASTRATE MILITIA HAVS NEXT?! We don't need a militia tank nerf to end tank spam we need AV TO DO IT'S D*MN JOB. Please tell me how many militia HAVs you see versus standard HAVs. For about every 10 militia HAVs I destroy, I destroy one standard HAV. If only some good investment was needed for an effective HAV, the majority of the tank spammers out there will be gone and only the few dedicated tankers will remain.Though I disagree with Spkr and agree with Tebu that it's more or less the railguns that are too powerful. They are the counter for everything. I want there to be more thought going into vehicle based AV: take a missile tank and destroy that rail tank at CQC (regardless if it's shield or not) or snipe that enemy tank at range with a railgun (it's intended use). Right now railguns win 80% of the time at CQC.
Therein lies the problem if only MLT tanks get changed then it doesn't solve the issue it will only A) make it impossible to get into tanking and B)maintains skilled into tanks as invincible. The only option is to nerf ALL TANKS or buff AV so that it is capable of taking on post 1.7 Tanks
Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3
That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1107
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Posted - 2014.01.29 16:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out?
There is a mil missile mod but no mil large turret.
The mil version though for missiles should be slower reload. That is the biggest catch that does me inis the damn reload time.
I'd like to see the small missiles fire the same as a large mis turret also.
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1107
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Posted - 2014.01.29 16:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:
Therein lies the problem if only MLT tanks get changed then it doesn't solve the issue it will only A) make it impossible to get into tanking and B)maintains skilled into tanks as invincible. The only option is to nerf ALL TANKS or buff AV so that it is capable of taking on post 1.7 Tanks
I don't recall it being impossible to get into tanks before and it is no more impossible now. Militia anything should be there as a test run item. If you want a char to be a tanker then it is quite easy to get up and running.
Do ppl realize that you can create multiple accounts on the Platstation? Cook a tank char off on a second account.
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
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Thumb Green
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
706
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Posted - 2014.01.29 16:18:00 -
[36] - Quote
Another wonderfully asinine idea from spkr. Militia tanks with a militia fit isn't that much of a problem because a militia fit isn't that good and is greatly restricted (sure it's harder to take down than it should be). Your idea only addresses noobs for the first week or two of being in a tank. The only modules that take time to get into are the damage mods and the only thing that benefits is a tanks performance against.... tanks.
I see people saying nerf the rail turret when it's the only real hard counter to tanks and I see people complaining about the redline when it's the most effective place to kill a tank when the enemy spams them with a rail turret. I see people complaining about being 2-shotted by double modded rail tanks when their hardeners obviously were down.
I see pansies in panzers complaining about their tanks being destroyed and demanding that the things that can destroy them to be nerfed.
Support Orbital Spawns
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Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
38
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Posted - 2014.01.29 16:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
Bump Soma up to 100k in price and take away the modules that come with them, but leave the turrets. Problem solved. People aren't gonna blow 100k per tank, lol
Sora's the name. Gallente is my game.
Yup! Gallente Specialist Here :)
Subsonic.
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1108
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Posted - 2014.01.29 16:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Another wonderfully asinine idea from spkr. Militia tanks with a militia fit isn't that much of a problem because a militia fit isn't that good and is greatly restricted (sure it's harder to take down than it should be). Your idea only addresses noobs for the first week or two of being in a tank. The only modules that take time to get into are the damage mods and the only thing that benefits is a tanks performance against.... tanks.
I see people saying nerf the rail turret when it's the only real hard counter to tanks and I see people complaining about the redline when it's the most effective place to kill a tank when the enemy spams them with a rail turret. I see people complaining about being 2-shotted by double modded rail tanks when their hardeners obviously were down.
I see pansies in panzers complaining about their tanks being destroyed and demanding that the things that can destroy them to be nerfed.
I see Somophobes (tm). And Sicaphants (tm).
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
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REDBACK96USMC
Chaotic-Intent
General Tso's Alliance
2
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Posted - 2014.01.29 16:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
[/quote]
And I thought I was the only one who noticed this. In a game of 16 vs 16, it blew me away when I found out that each team can call in 7 tanks in a match. That's more than half of a team! In my opinion, the max tanks that should be allowed per team at one time is 3-4.
Too much has been focused on "solo" tanking that there's no need for infantry to support them on an assault. And no one uses the small turrets anymore. Pretty much non-existent.
I back in 1.6, a well fitted tank could roll into a hotzone and take 7 Ishukone forge gun hits and roll away with 30% armor before reps kicked in. It took two forgers to take these types of tanks out because they were that strong. And it didn't need fast speed to survive.
Tanks need to be slow, powerful, and expensive. But not $2,000,000 expensive! If they brought back the tanks of 1.6, made them around $700,000 to $1,000,000 per tank, maybe slightly cheaper, lower the amount of tanks available to call in, we'd be closer to where it should be.
Tanks would rely on infantry for support!
[/quote]
I havent seen a skirmish game where 7 tanks on the field won the game yet. We all know they arent there for winning though. We were actually discussing the concept of vehicle type limitations per match. 2-3 tanks, 2-3 dropships, 4 max LAV's. Couple this with a slight boost back to Handheld AV and Advanced level and up AV Weapons and it should be fairly balanced. Throw in a Remote Explosive with a little more ooomphh that auto detonate around Vehicles (Read AV Mine) and it should be pretty well balanced.
The modules should also scale accordingly in attributes, not just cooldown and duration timers. It is kind of silly that a militia booster and Complex Booster have the same stats save how long it runs and how long it takes for cooldown. Scale the Damage/Boost/Amplification just like you do with suits. I can fit a militia Railgun and run around taking out Mads & Gunni's with the same ease as my full complex/proto rail half the time. That just isnt right.
RoF, Range and Base damage stats really aren't a concern to me. Good route planning and use of cover negate those every time.
I think the folly of most tankers is thinking they CAN just run up in the middle of a scrum or find a spot in the redline and SIT there. I appreciate you guys, makes it easy for me and the other guys. :)
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Sextus Hardcock
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
241
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Posted - 2014.01.29 16:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? In all honesty, I see the problem being the rails themselves coupled with damage mods to be the problem for vehicles. A milita tanker should not be able to 2 shot a 10 mil invested tanker. They should have to WORK for that kill. Rails are not balanced atm. For infantry, it's a blaster, coupled with hardeners. Basically, it's like a giant AR in a suit immune to conventional weapons. I think changes to the rails and blasters, would put milita tanks in their place. As an actual SP invested tanker, I really don't struggle with milita tanks, but every now and again, one will 2 shot me leaving me saying WTF. But that's an issue with the rails, and I don't think heat cost is going to fix that. All they need are 2 shots to begin with. And a blaster, depending on the suit it is hitting, only needs to roughly land 4 to 14 shots on a suit. So unless the heat cost limits them to a max of 20 shots, I don't think it will have the impact that is needed. Not to mention, you only need a few seconds to cool down before you start firing again. Of course it's immune to conventional weapons, it's a tank!!! It's like the Civil War, the Ironclads were a whole new animal. Wood hull ships went down easily. Regular dropships already easily outrun swarms, what do you think infantry will do when fighters are introduced, that will probably fly faster than dropships? "CCP, these fighters are too fast for my swarms, nerf their speed!"
No reasonable infantryman will complain about fighters... Unless they are able to kill all vehicles and infantry with impunity.
If tanks hunted tanks and other vehicles, and fighters hunted air vehicles we'd have no problem.
a tank with a crew of one vs an infantryman is a fairly one sided match, with little to no drawbacks against the tanker. Something must be done to fix this imbalance.
reduce AI effectiveness of tanks, and everybody is happy.
I am the sixth son
Chrome Vet
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Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect
1545
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Posted - 2014.01.29 17:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all.
His Win button isnt big enough yet
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
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straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
172
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Posted - 2014.01.29 17:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:Atiim wrote: Come on guys. Be gentle with Spkr.
His idea may cause more problems than it fixes, but he at least admitted that MLT HAVs are broken.
We're making progress here... Progress? More like he wants the last bits of resistance of non tankers removed so that he can fully enjoy his status as TANK MASTER RACE. But, he did admit that they were broken. Admittance is the first step...
He only wants militia tanks nerfed cause he is a piece of sh*t who cannot handle anything taking him down. How many times has this cry baby stated a tank should be a counter to a tank, now they are countering him, lets nerf any tank not as big as mine. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
938
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Posted - 2014.01.29 17:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
straya fox wrote:Atiim wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:Atiim wrote: Come on guys. Be gentle with Spkr.
His idea may cause more problems than it fixes, but he at least admitted that MLT HAVs are broken.
We're making progress here... Progress? More like he wants the last bits of resistance of non tankers removed so that he can fully enjoy his status as TANK MASTER RACE. But, he did admit that they were broken. Admittance is the first step... He only wants militia tanks nerfed cause he is a piece of sh*t who cannot handle anything taking him down. How many times has this cry baby stated a tank should be a counter to a tank, now they are countering him, lets nerf any tank not as big as mine.
LOL
Even then he would hide on the redlines... apparently that's skill.... |
Jake Diesel
BIG BAD W0LVES
74
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Posted - 2014.01.29 17:39:00 -
[44] - Quote
And I thought I was the only one who noticed this. In a game of 16 vs 16, it blew me away when I found out that each team can call in 7 tanks in a match. That's more than half of a team! In my opinion, the max tanks that should be allowed per team at one time is 3-4.
Too much has been focused on "solo" tanking that there's no need for infantry to support them on an assault. And no one uses the small turrets anymore. Pretty much non-existent.
I back in 1.6, a well fitted tank could roll into a hotzone and take 7 Ishukone forge gun hits and roll away with 30% armor before reps kicked in. It took two forgers to take these types of tanks out because they were that strong. And it didn't need fast speed to survive.
Tanks need to be slow, powerful, and expensive. But not $2,000,000 expensive! If they brought back the tanks of 1.6, made them around $700,000 to $1,000,000 per tank, maybe slightly cheaper, lower the amount of tanks available to call in, we'd be closer to where it should be.
Tanks would rely on infantry for support!
[/quote]
I havent seen a skirmish game where 7 tanks on the field won the game yet. We all know they arent there for winning though. We were actually discussing the concept of vehicle type limitations per match. 2-3 tanks, 2-3 dropships, 4 max LAV's. Couple this with a slight boost back to Handheld AV and Advanced level and up AV Weapons and it should be fairly balanced. Throw in a Remote Explosive with a little more ooomphh that auto detonate around Vehicles (Read AV Mine) and it should be pretty well balanced.
The modules should also scale accordingly in attributes, not just cooldown and duration timers. It is kind of silly that a militia booster and Complex Booster have the same stats save how long it runs and how long it takes for cooldown. Scale the Damage/Boost/Amplification just like you do with suits. I can fit a militia Railgun and run around taking out Mads & Gunni's with the same ease as my full complex/proto rail half the time. That just isnt right.
RoF, Range and Base damage stats really aren't a concern to me. Good route planning and use of cover negate those every time.
I think the folly of most tankers is thinking they CAN just run up in the middle of a scrum or find a spot in the redline and SIT there. I appreciate you guys, makes it easy for me and the other guys. :)
[/quote]
I like this. |
Vyuru
Learning Coalition College
35
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Posted - 2014.01.29 18:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
Quote:Though I disagree with Spkr and agree with Tebu that it's more or less the railguns that are too powerful. They are the counter for everything. I want there to be more thought going into vehicle based AV: take a missile tank and destroy that rail tank at CQC (regardless if it's shield or not) or snipe that enemy tank at range with a railgun (it's intended use). Right now railguns win 80% of the time at CQC.
Speaking as a semi militia tanker.....
The only reason I use railgun militia tanks is in a AV role because things I used to be able to use before, I simply cannot.
Strictly speaking in a militia vs militia role, if I do win vs a blaster, I only win by less than 400hp typically. That is if we open fire at the same time almost nose to nose, see each other at the same time, etc etc. If I have any range on a blaster tank I will win with more health, obviously since the blaster can't shoot me from that far.
I've beaten some blaster Soma's (Not a tanker, no clue what level they are) but those typically I have to get the first few shots off or else they will beat me.
People with more experience may see something differently, but I see no problem with railgun militia tanks. Also, I tend to think that blaster tanks might be a bit too powerful just in the fact that they are good vs infantry and other tanks. Railguns are primarily AV in my opinion.
I will say the elitism of some tankers astounds me. You sit there saying how you so easily destroy a minimum skilled militia tank with your top of the line fully specced out tank like that takes some kind of skill or something? I also see a number of people dissing militia tanks, and I will admit there are a number of people hopping onto tanks because they are kind of the new FoTM, however:
Have any of you considered that right now, the best way to fight a tank is with another tank?
Have any of you considered that right now, the best way to combat a DS is with another DS or a railgun tank or installation?
Have any of you considered that right now, the best way to win on some maps is to gain air control by keeping the skies clear of dropships and taking out/damaging enemy vehicles as they are called in?
Guess what I have found to be one of the best counters to all of the above?
Railgun tank and railgun installations.
Hmm, what are people wanting nerfed?
Sorry, but you get little to no sympathy from me on this. If you want a railgun installation destroyed, use your own or bring a railgun tank and snipe it out. You've got an entire map to play with and ambush a stationary target. The only reason is you are too lazy. If I, as an unskilled tanker, can do that easily, you can too.
If you want to cry because I shoved my militia tank's railgun up the backside of your tank and let loose, guess what? Have better situational awareness, don't let me sneak a tank up behind you, or do not let me trap you in a city. Oh, and don't panic, that will get you killed quick.
Sorry, but this whole thing just boggles my mind. Swarms are almost useless, AV grenades are almost useless, forgeguns I don't know too much about, REs require you to get within spitting range and even then, most good tanks can take more than you can put on, and now railguns are being asked to be nerfed? Seriously? |
Scout Registry
Nos Nothi
1121
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 18:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
:: Sees Tank Thread ::
:: Notes Author ::
:: Walks Away Laughing ::
Shouldn't you be out farming infantry with Taki?
You guys are so good at this game. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
942
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 18:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
Scout Registry wrote::: Sees Tank Thread ::
:: Notes Author ::
:: Walks Away Laughing ::
Shouldn't you be out farming infantry with Taki?
You guys are so good at this game.
Taki is 100 times better than spkr can ever hope to be... |
trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
144
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 04:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:Scout Registry wrote::: Sees Tank Thread ::
:: Notes Author ::
:: Walks Away Laughing ::
Shouldn't you be out farming infantry with Taki?
You guys are so good at this game. Taki is 100 times better than spkr can ever hope to be...
Just as terrible ideas for balancing tanks however. Last I saw, Taki was saying swarms shouldn't be able to kill tanks at all unless there's a forge backing it.
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1710
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 07:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:Scout Registry wrote::: Sees Tank Thread ::
:: Notes Author ::
:: Walks Away Laughing ::
Shouldn't you be out farming infantry with Taki?
You guys are so good at this game. Taki is 100 times better than spkr can ever hope to be...
I did learn the fine art of vehicles by observing him in MAG. I also asked him for advice on tanking for Dust.
But anything you have to say is invalidated because you're an ex-tanker.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1710
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 07:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jake Diesel wrote:And I thought I was the only one who noticed this. In a game of 16 vs 16, it blew me away when I found out that each team can call in 7 tanks in a match. That's more than half of a team! In my opinion, the max tanks that should be allowed per team at one time is 3-4. Too much has been focused on "solo" tanking that there's no need for infantry to support them on an assault. And no one uses the small turrets anymore. Pretty much non-existent. I back in 1.6, a well fitted tank could roll into a hotzone and take 7 Ishukone forge gun hits and roll away with 30% armor before reps kicked in. It took two forgers to take these types of tanks out because they were that strong. And it didn't need fast speed to survive. Tanks need to be slow, powerful, and expensive. But not $2,000,000 expensive! If they brought back the tanks of 1.6, made them around $700,000 to $1,000,000 per tank, maybe slightly cheaper, lower the amount of tanks available to call in, we'd be closer to where it should be. Tanks would rely on infantry for support!
I havent seen a skirmish game where 7 tanks on the field won the game yet. We all know they arent there for winning though. We were actually discussing the concept of vehicle type limitations per match. 2-3 tanks, 2-3 dropships, 4 max LAV's. Couple this with a slight boost back to Handheld AV and Advanced level and up AV Weapons and it should be fairly balanced. Throw in a Remote Explosive with a little more ooomphh that auto detonate around Vehicles (Read AV Mine) and it should be pretty well balanced.
The modules should also scale accordingly in attributes, not just cooldown and duration timers. It is kind of silly that a militia booster and Complex Booster have the same stats save how long it runs and how long it takes for cooldown. Scale the Damage/Boost/Amplification just like you do with suits. I can fit a militia Railgun and run around taking out Mads & Gunni's with the same ease as my full complex/proto rail half the time. That just isnt right.
RoF, Range and Base damage stats really aren't a concern to me. Good route planning and use of cover negate those every time.
I think the folly of most tankers is thinking they CAN just run up in the middle of a scrum or find a spot in the redline and SIT there. I appreciate you guys, makes it easy for me and the other guys. :)
[/quote]
I like this.[/quote]
How about PRO suits get their old price of over 300,000k ISK back?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
|
|
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Leonid Tybalt
Dark Knightz Corp.
221
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 07:59:00 -
[51] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all.
This (excluding the insults)
Nerfing the mlt tanks will only go back to a previous situation (where they completely sucked in comparison to standard tanks).
The way militia tanks are now is good. It keeps me on my toes. If you reduce their firing speed and increase their heat build-up im gonna have too easy a time. |
Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
550
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 08:09:00 -
[52] - Quote
Vehicles should be limited to one hardener per type (allowing one shield and one armor, for those who dare dual tank) There should be a window where vehicles can shrug off AV. But there should also be a window for AV to retaliate, once the hardener is down.
Tanks should be slower, by at least 25% if not more, because they are tanks. They are meant to sit there and deal out damage. So make them sit.
Tiers shouldn't decrease cooldowns, but increase resistance given. Proto tier hardeners should shrug off anything and everything. When that hardener is off, AV should have plenty of time to get their kill, assuming the HAV hasn't killed them all.
Tank militia gear needs their pg/cpu requirements increased dramatically. You should be able to fit one extra militia mod on your tank without needing to fit upgrade mods. After that, you better pony up some slots for cpu and pg upgrades, unless you are willing to invest in the skills to lower fitting requirements.
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Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard
RISE of LEGION
597
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 08:15:00 -
[53] - Quote
Rails aint the problem, you are aware a missle tank will crush either rail/blaster in half a lol second right?
The problem is the swarm launcher got nerfed to ******* hell. Bring that back to pre hyper nerf and the situation will balance itself out. |
Leonid Tybalt
Dark Knightz Corp.
222
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 11:50:00 -
[54] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Vehicles should be limited to one hardener per type (allowing one shield and one armor, for those who dare dual tank) There should be a window where vehicles can shrug off AV. But there should also be a window for AV to retaliate, once the hardener is down.
Tanks should be slower, by at least 25% if not more, because they are tanks. They are meant to sit there and deal out damage. So make them sit.
Tiers shouldn't decrease cooldowns, but increase resistance given. Proto tier hardeners should shrug off anything and everything. When that hardener is off, AV should have plenty of time to get their kill, assuming the HAV hasn't killed them all.
Tank militia gear needs their pg/cpu requirements increased dramatically. You should be able to fit one extra militia mod on your tank without needing to fit upgrade mods. After that, you better pony up some slots for cpu and pg upgrades, unless you are willing to invest in the skills to lower fitting requirements.
I can get behind this.
Only noob tankers use dual hardeners anyway, because stacked dual hardeners are only really effective protection against infantry AV.
I've lost count of all the times I've shot dual hardener users to pieces with my tank, because they just don't have enough of an hp buffer to stand up to all that damage that my missile launcher or railgun dishes out. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4213
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 12:23:00 -
[55] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Vehicles should be limited to one hardener per type (allowing one shield and one armor, for those who dare dual tank) There should be a window where vehicles can shrug off AV. But there should also be a window for AV to retaliate, once the hardener is down.
Tanks should be slower, by at least 25% if not more, because they are tanks. They are meant to sit there and deal out damage. So make them sit.
Tiers shouldn't decrease cooldowns, but increase resistance given. Proto tier hardeners should shrug off anything and everything. When that hardener is off, AV should have plenty of time to get their kill, assuming the HAV hasn't killed them all.
Tank militia gear needs their pg/cpu requirements increased dramatically. You should be able to fit one extra militia mod on your tank without needing to fit upgrade mods. After that, you better pony up some slots for cpu and pg upgrades, unless you are willing to invest in the skills to lower fitting requirements.
I like this idea, but increasing hardener resistance anymore would completely break Tank vs Tank battles, because it would just involve two tanks just standing there looking at each-other until the hardeners die.
Tank vs. Tank battles should be a "duel" of sorts. Not a waiting game.
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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Leonid Tybalt
Dark Knightz Corp.
222
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 12:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Vehicles should be limited to one hardener per type (allowing one shield and one armor, for those who dare dual tank) There should be a window where vehicles can shrug off AV. But there should also be a window for AV to retaliate, once the hardener is down.
Tanks should be slower, by at least 25% if not more, because they are tanks. They are meant to sit there and deal out damage. So make them sit.
Tiers shouldn't decrease cooldowns, but increase resistance given. Proto tier hardeners should shrug off anything and everything. When that hardener is off, AV should have plenty of time to get their kill, assuming the HAV hasn't killed them all.
Tank militia gear needs their pg/cpu requirements increased dramatically. You should be able to fit one extra militia mod on your tank without needing to fit upgrade mods. After that, you better pony up some slots for cpu and pg upgrades, unless you are willing to invest in the skills to lower fitting requirements. I like this idea, but increasing hardener resistance anymore would completely break Tank vs Tank battles, because it would just involve two tanks just standing there looking at each-other until the hardeners die. Tank vs. Tank battles should be a "duel" of sorts. Not a waiting game.
Oh, the irony that you of all people talk about how tank battles "should" be.... 
We know for a fact that you reject every real-life aspects of tanks. So what exactly do you base your views on aside from personal preference?
I.e the very same personal preference that thinks it's completely okay that a 200.000 isk forge gun fit should be able to one-hit kill an 800.000 isk tank?
How about you actually invest a few million skillpoints in vehicle skills and run with tanks or a month or so before "educating" the rest of us how tank battles "should" be? It would at least give some sort of credibility to your views, because we who have seen your previous butthurt-infantry tirages aren't very convinced... |
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1739
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 12:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:Atiim wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Vehicles should be limited to one hardener per type (allowing one shield and one armor, for those who dare dual tank) There should be a window where vehicles can shrug off AV. But there should also be a window for AV to retaliate, once the hardener is down.
Tanks should be slower, by at least 25% if not more, because they are tanks. They are meant to sit there and deal out damage. So make them sit.
Tiers shouldn't decrease cooldowns, but increase resistance given. Proto tier hardeners should shrug off anything and everything. When that hardener is off, AV should have plenty of time to get their kill, assuming the HAV hasn't killed them all.
Tank militia gear needs their pg/cpu requirements increased dramatically. You should be able to fit one extra militia mod on your tank without needing to fit upgrade mods. After that, you better pony up some slots for cpu and pg upgrades, unless you are willing to invest in the skills to lower fitting requirements. I like this idea, but increasing hardener resistance anymore would completely break Tank vs Tank battles, because it would just involve two tanks just standing there looking at each-other until the hardeners die. Tank vs. Tank battles should be a "duel" of sorts. Not a waiting game. Oh, the irony that you of all people talk about how tank battles "should" be.... We know for a fact that you reject every real-life aspects of tanks. So what exactly do you base your views on aside from personal preference? I.e the very same personal preference that thinks it's completely okay that a 200.000 isk forge gun fit should be able to one-hit kill an 800.000 isk tank? How about you actually invest a few million skillpoints in vehicle skills and run with tanks or a month or so before "educating" the rest of us how tank battles "should" be? It would at least give some sort of credibility to your views, because we who have seen your previous butthurt-infantry tirages aren't very convinced...
Why I can just use a mlt, tank battles are ridiculous fun right now, I use a gunnlogi and run circles around my enemy, if they hardened I have to account for overheat and trying to keep out of their turret LOS, that's how it should be, and its pretty damn awsome.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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bigbad bro
Feral Outcast D.B.
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 12:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all. So I offer a solution that affects only MLT tanks, and that's not good enough for you, because it doesn't nerf tanks as a whole. It's not taking away blasters, it's not making turrets cost 1mil ISK again, it's not yet again making them cost more SP, or easier to kill, or buffing AV. It's changing something that only effects the MLT tag, and that's not good enough for you. Stuff yourself Of course it's not good enough, as it removes one of the FEW COUNTERS TANKS HAVE LEFT! Oh look a swarm *turns on hardener guns av down* Oh look a forge *turns on hardeners guns av down* jihad jeeps mlt tanks, and oh another std tank are the only hard counters left for tanks as they wonder around butchering infantry with impunity and YOU WANT TO CASTRATE MILITIA HAVS NEXT?! We don't need a militia tank nerf to end tank spam we need AV TO DO IT'S D*MN JOB.
No we don't need pre 1.7 where AV'ers can kill a tank with 1 shot 1 kill we need balance to the game.
Tank are my favorite red dots to kill. KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL............
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1689
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 13:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out?
The militia tanks giving you a hard time?
And you wana nerf the only viable non-fatsuit AV weapon?
Sounds just like a thing you would say, I'm not surprised.
I hope that you guys actually try and do something more than stay around Your home base protecting that ammo dump. Not only are you losing the game, (Well ES said he didn't care about the outcome as long as he managed to kill me once) but you're making it utterly boring for the rest of us aswell.
As experienced "should-know-better" players, camping at the redline without hardly a joyride out on the Battlefield says something is very wrong With Your way of playing IMO. Adapting the vehicle playstyle from a dude geting a whole hill named after him in Beta due to constantly camping on top With a railtank is hardly the best tutor now is it?
Despit being on the other side of the table, I've had a sort of weird respect for you guys cause, honestly, I have no idea how to drive a tank. Seeing how you actually play the game and all respect is lost. 3 Dom games and Your team couldn't even hack once, and on top of that Your team looked better on paper. (We had 2 or 3 butterflies raping Your entire team al game long while you were hiding in the redline)
ES especially brags about how he uses teamwork etc but al I see is camping and farming "free" kills.
Why would the two of you stay several dom games in or Close to the redline? Is it any fun? Am I missing something?
Could you please elaborate on this and on why we as a community shall pay any attention to Your silly little antrums when all you seem to be doing is farm from afar? I'm sure more People here would like to know.
Do you guys even play PC? I've played my share of Battles and some but I've yet to see any of you in any Battle, you know, where the competition is.
http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
962
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 13:35:00 -
[60] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:NAV HIV wrote:Scout Registry wrote::: Sees Tank Thread ::
:: Notes Author ::
:: Walks Away Laughing ::
Shouldn't you be out farming infantry with Taki?
You guys are so good at this game. Taki is 100 times better than spkr can ever hope to be... I did learn the fine art of vehicles by observing him in MAG. I also asked him for advice on tanking for Dust. But anything you have to say is invalidated because you're an ex-tanker.
Like i said earlier... I carry a Proto maddy in my pocket just for ***** and giggles... |
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Import Beercase
Beer For Evil Mercs
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 13:37:00 -
[61] - Quote
I hope that tanks would be somehow balanced against each other. I dont know much about tanking but everything is fine as long as they cant hack the objective.
I rarely lose a domination match because of red mlt tanks.. But if reds have ADS and few tankers with effective modules and infantry support it will get exciting and fun. FUN. <--- the reason most of us play.
I dont use tanks I just target them and collect points from squadleader order.
"If at first you don't succeed, mccdiving is not for you."
Snowflake in hell those are my odds in ambush
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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
147
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 15:02:00 -
[62] - Quote
You want it fixed, just do 3 things.
1. Stop hardner stacking. Simple enough, and a popular choice around here.
2. Make hardners have drawback effects. Armor hardners, when activated, should slow your movement speed by 80%. Shield hardners should cancel all shield regeneration until the hardner goes off.
3. Increase the strength of STD hardners by 3%, ADV hardners by 5% & PRO hardners by 10%
Results: Tanks actually have waves of opportunity, militia hardners are trash with the drawbacks added but good hardners used intelligently are great, and there are finally huge differences between shield and armor tanking besides just the fittings. Armor becomes "stand and deliver", shields become "hit and run" just like they were always meant to be.
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1711
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 18:39:00 -
[63] - Quote
trollface dot jpg wrote:You want it fixed, just do 4 things.
1. Stop hardner stacking. Simple enough, and a popular choice around here.
2. Make hardners have drawback effects. Armor hardners, when activated, should slow your movement speed by 80%. Shield hardners should cancel all shield regeneration until the hardner goes off.
3. Increase the strength & duration of STD hardners by 3%, ADV hardners by 5% & PRO hardners by 10%
4. 10% buff to light AV, 5% buff to AV grenades
Results: Tanks actually have waves of opportunity, militia hardners are trash with the drawbacks added but good hardners used intelligently are great, and there are finally huge differences between shield and armor tanking besides just the fittings. Armor becomes "stand and deliver", shields become "hit and run" just like they were always meant to be.
Okay... once an armor plate's HP is destroyed, you don't get it back until selecting the same suit at a depot. Ditto for shield extenders.
Do you even tank?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1711
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 18:40:00 -
[64] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all. His Win button isnt big enough yet
At least I don't need to use all PRO gear when I'm infantry to do well. You, however, do.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1747
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:41:00 -
[65] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:trollface dot jpg wrote:You want it fixed, just do 4 things.
1. Stop hardner stacking. Simple enough, and a popular choice around here.
2. Make hardners have drawback effects. Armor hardners, when activated, should slow your movement speed by 80%. Shield hardners should cancel all shield regeneration until the hardner goes off.
3. Increase the strength & duration of STD hardners by 3%, ADV hardners by 5% & PRO hardners by 10%
4. 10% buff to light AV, 5% buff to AV grenades
Results: Tanks actually have waves of opportunity, militia hardners are trash with the drawbacks added but good hardners used intelligently are great, and there are finally huge differences between shield and armor tanking besides just the fittings. Armor becomes "stand and deliver", shields become "hit and run" just like they were always meant to be. Okay... once an armor plate's HP is destroyed, you don't get it back until selecting the same suit at a depot. Ditto for shield extenders. Do you even tank?
Unless you have armour reps, do you even?
Not that the entire staement has anything to do with Trollface's suggestions.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
|
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1747
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:41:00 -
[66] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all. His Win button isnt big enough yet At least I don't need to use all PRO gear when I'm infantry to do well. You, however, do.
At least he can use proto and not die to a frontline fit.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
|
Ryme Intrinseca
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
553
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:46:00 -
[67] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:I'm such a massive scrub I need standard tanks to be even more God Mode |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1714
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 13:00:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:I hate anything that's not my play style.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1714
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 13:01:00 -
[69] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? They aren't clunkier, the difference is mlt uses a modified instruction set, to make it easier to use. Which is reflected in the fitting costs. Mlt tanks aren't the problem, the cheap price of tanks isn't the problem, the power per person ratio for someone in a tank, any tank is the problem. Only nerfing mlt tanks creates a vaccum where not only tanks in general are overpowered but then standard hull tanks become overpowered versus other tanks, making the problem worse. Either you are too dumb to see this, or you are only doing this because you aren't happy enough being the king tier of warfare, you want to be the be all and end all. His Win button isnt big enough yet At least I don't need to use all PRO gear when I'm infantry to do well. You, however, do. At least he can use proto and not die to a frontline fit.
What's that supposed to mean?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2352
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Posted - 2014.02.01 14:31:00 -
[70] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
What's that supposed to mean?
Maybe Monkey killed Rei in a frontline fit when Rei ran all proto
Intelligence is OP
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1717
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Posted - 2014.02.01 21:33:00 -
[71] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
What's that supposed to mean?
Maybe Monkey killed Rei in a frontline fit when Rei ran all proto
That's impossible, infantry keeps telling us it's impossible to use MLT against anything.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4298
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Posted - 2014.02.01 21:38:00 -
[72] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
That's impossible, infantry keeps telling us it's impossible to use MLT against anything.
Man, you really do hate infantry that much huh?
What did the infantry do to you Spkr4TheDead? Why such strong hate towards them?
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
3880
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Posted - 2014.02.01 21:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:For a real tanker all of these militia noob tanks are just easy pickings.
I quite enjoy smashing them left and right and then getting to the real battles VS the other good tankers out there. I have been learning a lot the last few weeks.
Oh and to all AV guys I feel your pain, though get a forge gunner or two or a forger and a swarmer and using a decent spot on the map you can cause tanks much pain. Otherwise leave it to a tanker to dispatch of that militia HAV infestation. It is almost like PVE to be honest =D
I quite enjoy ramming "real" tankers so they flip.
I am your scan error.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1718
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Posted - 2014.02.01 21:42:00 -
[74] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
That's impossible, infantry keeps telling us it's impossible to use MLT against anything.
Man, you really do hate infantry that much huh? What did the infantry do to you Spkr4TheDead? Why such strong hate towards them?
No, I hate the mentality you have towards vehicles and their operators.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4298
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Posted - 2014.02.01 21:49:00 -
[75] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
No, I hate the mentality you have towards vehicles and their operators.
The only vehicle I have ever hated is the Bolas. That thing needs to be removed from the game.
As for their operators, could you really blame me? It's hard not to hate a group when they consistently lie and pretend as if their role should be the master race of this game and create balance ideas that completely favor them.
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1718
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Posted - 2014.02.01 21:58:00 -
[76] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
No, I hate the mentality you have towards vehicles and their operators.
The only vehicle I have ever hated is the Bolas. That thing needs to be removed from the game. As for their operators, could you really blame me? It's hard not to hate a group when they consistently lie and pretend as if their role should be the master race of this game and create balance ideas that completely favor them.
LOL stop lying
We lie? Wanting our tank to be worth its investment in time, SP and ISK is lying? We want AV removed? We want to climb stairs? What the hell are you talking about?
Yet I keep seeing from infantry that it should only take one of you to destroy us, when the investment in any single AV weapon is vastly inferior to that of everything into a tank.
People complain that infantry weapons can barely scratch a tank. Well, yeah, of course they shouldn't do anything, it's a rifle vs a tank. Then they complain that their AV isn't enough to destroy a tank, well yeah, you're not going to destroy a tank in one hit from any AV weapon, unless it's a forge gun from behind.
Swarms? Been over this a million times. Why should something that has lock on and seeking do so much damage? Our turrets don't auto track, we have to aim them.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4298
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Posted - 2014.02.01 22:33:00 -
[77] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Atiim wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
No, I hate the mentality you have towards vehicles and their operators.
The only vehicle I have ever hated is the Bolas. That thing needs to be removed from the game. As for their operators, could you really blame me? It's hard not to hate a group when they consistently lie and pretend as if their role should be the master race of this game and create balance ideas that completely favor them. LOL stop lying We lie? Wanting our tank to be worth its investment in time, SP and ISK is lying? We want AV removed? We want to climb stairs? What the hell are you talking about? Yet I keep seeing from infantry that it should only take one of you to destroy us, when the investment in any single AV weapon is vastly inferior to that of everything into a tank. People complain that infantry weapons can barely scratch a tank. Well, yeah, of course they shouldn't do anything, it's a rifle vs a tank. Then they complain that their AV isn't enough to destroy a tank, well yeah, you're not going to destroy a tank in one hit from any AV weapon, unless it's a forge gun from behind. Swarms? Been over this a million times. Why should something that has lock on and seeking do so much damage? Our turrets don't auto track, we have to aim them.
Yes, vehicle pilots lie on a regular basis. Especially 1.6
For example, Swarm Launchers destroying HAVs in 1 volley was a lie. Needing 5mil SP in-order to survive Militia Swarm Launchers was also a lie. Need I go further?
First off, nothing should ever require more than 1 single person to destroy you as long as it takes 1 single person to operate. Otherwise, people will flock over to said item simply because they are more powerful than 1 person.
Also, I pay 860k ISK per match in order to fight a single tank that usually costs 80-150 ISK. More SP? What a joke. For about 1mil SP I got all of the stuff I need to face-roll people. Yet I need at least Prof V in a weapon just to be effective against them.
Nobody is complaining about a rifle not being able to destroy vehicles. What are you talking about?
You say this as if aiming said turret is difficult. Heck, the only weapon that is significantly difficult to aim is the Plasma Cannon.
I don't see people in PRO suits complaining when cheap Starter Fits and STD suits kill them, so why should you?
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1763
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Posted - 2014.02.01 22:50:00 -
[78] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
What's that supposed to mean?
Maybe Monkey killed Rei in a frontline fit when Rei ran all proto
Close Tak, I said at least Rei can survive mlt in proto gear, Spkr couldn't when he had more armour then I had full EHP.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
4284
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Posted - 2014.02.01 22:54:00 -
[79] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out?
This is actually very good.
But doesnt solve the ''tanker'' problem regarding TRIPLE dam mod or Hardener Gunogi or Blaster maddies killing infantry without counter....
Its a fix to tank SPAM,but not a fix tanks overall.
AceOfJokers666 [ + ] AimBot / VALOR / MAG | YOU EITHER LOVE BACON OR YOU ARE WRONG
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1763
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Posted - 2014.02.01 22:57:00 -
[80] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Atiim wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
No, I hate the mentality you have towards vehicles and their operators.
The only vehicle I have ever hated is the Bolas. That thing needs to be removed from the game. As for their operators, could you really blame me? It's hard not to hate a group when they consistently lie and pretend as if their role should be the master race of this game and create balance ideas that completely favor them. LOL stop lying We lie? Wanting our tank to be worth its investment in time, SP and ISK is lying? We want AV removed? We want to climb stairs? What the hell are you talking about? Yet I keep seeing from infantry that it should only take one of you to destroy us, when the investment in any single AV weapon is vastly inferior to that of everything into a tank. People complain that infantry weapons can barely scratch a tank. Well, yeah, of course they shouldn't do anything, it's a rifle vs a tank. Then they complain that their AV isn't enough to destroy a tank, well yeah, you're not going to destroy a tank in one hit from any AV weapon, unless it's a forge gun from behind. Swarms? Been over this a million times. Why should something that has lock on and seeking do so much damage? Our turrets don't auto track, we have to aim them.
Then maybe Spkr the reasn Infantry is so opposed to YOUR idea of tank balance is because we don't want.
5 Billion Isk Super Tanks of Ultimate Death
Prehaps what we want is
Cheaper Tanks that bring another ASPECT of battle not a whole other level.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1781
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Posted - 2014.02.01 23:05:00 -
[81] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? This is actually very good.But doesnt solve the ''tanker'' problem regarding TRIPLE dam mod or Hardener Gunogi or Blaster maddies killing infantry without counter.... Its a fix to tank SPAM,but not a fix tanks overall.
That's entirely upon what you class as tank spam.
The vehicle limit is approximately 38% of the Total Force Strength
So it not necessarily how many are allowed at a time, but more why so many WANT to use them. If tanks are properly balanced with respect to infa try the want to max out the vehicle limit with JUST tanks will lessen.
But it still wouldn't be difficult for 20% of the Total force strength to be some form of Heavy Attack Vehicle, Tank or otherwise.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1719
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
What's that supposed to mean?
Maybe Monkey killed Rei in a frontline fit when Rei ran all proto Close Tak, I said at least Rei can survive mlt in proto gear, Spkr couldn't when he had more armour then I had full EHP.
What are you talking about?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1719
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:02:00 -
[83] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Increase heat buildup for MLT mods, because as is the case with all things MLT, they're clunky and require more resources. So, make them build up more heat when they're activated. I don't use missiles too often, very situational, and I don't have the game on, so I dunno if there's MLT missile damage mods, but make whatever missile turret is being modified fire slower. With the blaster, the faster heat buildup is enough. No reason to hold it back in two ways, just the one is good enough.
Why do us tankers always have to figure things out? This is actually very good.But doesnt solve the ''tanker'' problem regarding TRIPLE dam mod or Hardener Gunogi or Blaster maddies killing infantry without counter.... Its a fix to tank SPAM,but not a fix tanks overall.
So what about tanks needs to be fixed? That they're still around? That they have large turrets? That people know how to use them?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1719
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:04:00 -
[84] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Atiim wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
No, I hate the mentality you have towards vehicles and their operators.
The only vehicle I have ever hated is the Bolas. That thing needs to be removed from the game. As for their operators, could you really blame me? It's hard not to hate a group when they consistently lie and pretend as if their role should be the master race of this game and create balance ideas that completely favor them. LOL stop lying We lie? Wanting our tank to be worth its investment in time, SP and ISK is lying? We want AV removed? We want to climb stairs? What the hell are you talking about? Yet I keep seeing from infantry that it should only take one of you to destroy us, when the investment in any single AV weapon is vastly inferior to that of everything into a tank. People complain that infantry weapons can barely scratch a tank. Well, yeah, of course they shouldn't do anything, it's a rifle vs a tank. Then they complain that their AV isn't enough to destroy a tank, well yeah, you're not going to destroy a tank in one hit from any AV weapon, unless it's a forge gun from behind. Swarms? Been over this a million times. Why should something that has lock on and seeking do so much damage? Our turrets don't auto track, we have to aim them. Then maybe Spkr the reasn Infantry is so opposed to YOUR idea of tank balance is because we don't want. 5 Billion Isk Super Tanks of Ultimate Death Prehaps what we want is Cheaper Tanks that bring another ASPECT of battle not a whole other level.
None of you even want to deal with that supposed "other aspect of battle," even when we're basically throwing your clones off a giant cliff. Three good pilots with blaster tanks? Some idiot with Darkside CBR7 swarms starts launching one volley per magazine at each tank. Especially shield.
How do you expect tanks to go boom with such idiocy around?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
172
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Posted - 2014.02.02 10:27:00 -
[85] - Quote
Just shoot the tanks butt.It hurts more there. |
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1783
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Posted - 2014.02.02 11:02:00 -
[86] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Atiim wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
No, I hate the mentality you have towards vehicles and their operators.
The only vehicle I have ever hated is the Bolas. That thing needs to be removed from the game. As for their operators, could you really blame me? It's hard not to hate a group when they consistently lie and pretend as if their role should be the master race of this game and create balance ideas that completely favor them. LOL stop lying We lie? Wanting our tank to be worth its investment in time, SP and ISK is lying? We want AV removed? We want to climb stairs? What the hell are you talking about? Yet I keep seeing from infantry that it should only take one of you to destroy us, when the investment in any single AV weapon is vastly inferior to that of everything into a tank. People complain that infantry weapons can barely scratch a tank. Well, yeah, of course they shouldn't do anything, it's a rifle vs a tank. Then they complain that their AV isn't enough to destroy a tank, well yeah, you're not going to destroy a tank in one hit from any AV weapon, unless it's a forge gun from behind. Swarms? Been over this a million times. Why should something that has lock on and seeking do so much damage? Our turrets don't auto track, we have to aim them. Then maybe Spkr the reasn Infantry is so opposed to YOUR idea of tank balance is because we don't want. 5 Billion Isk Super Tanks of Ultimate Death Prehaps what we want is Cheaper Tanks that bring another ASPECT of battle not a whole other level. None of you even want to deal with that supposed "other aspect of battle," even when we're basically throwing your clones off a giant cliff. Three good pilots with blaster tanks? Some idiot with Darkside CBR7 swarms starts launching one volley per magazine at each tank. Especially shield. How do you expect tanks to go boom with such idiocy around?
If you mean every single player doesn't doen tools then not all of us want to deal eith it. If I have an AR there is no point taking on a tank.So what, you don't know the guy's reasoning. The thing is Spkr, the one point you have never got, throughout all of our arguements.
Is that not EVERYONE should have to deal with You. People with AV will deal with you and 70% the rest ov the infantry will be confident that they can at least hold the line.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Mortedeamor
1321
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Posted - 2014.02.02 11:14:00 -
[87] - Quote
or u could add stacking penalties to the use of multiple items just like it is with infantry.
also i think the clips of lower end turrets should all be lowered..to allow less wiggle room for accuracy and smaller over all dmg stream
+1 for IWS to stay as cpm
more-tae-dee-um-more
stop asking how to pronounce my name its quite irritating
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