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Summ Dude OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 153	Posted - 2014.01.29 05:53:00 - [1] - Quote I know, I know, there's already been a billion of these. But I don't think I've seen someone suggest my ideas specifically yet, so why not. Keeping it nice and simple: 1. Increase charge-up time to 0.5 seconds. 2. Slightly reduce clip size (probably no more than 10%). 3. Drastically increase hip-fire recoil. The dispersion can actually stay where it's at. And that's it. This should at least lessen the RR's effectiveness in CQC, helping to cement it's role as the long rage assault rifle. Honestly after all this it might still be doing just a little bit too much damage for how much range it has, but I think this would be a pretty good starting point. Comments welcome and appreciated. But please folks, try to keep it constructive and civil. Flame wars help literally no one. Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 88	Posted - 2014.01.29 05:58:00 - [2] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: I know, I know, there's already been a billion of these. But I don't think I've seen someone suggest my ideas specifically yet, so why not. Keeping it nice and simple: 1. Increase charge-up time to 0.5 seconds. 2. Slightly reduce clip size (probably no more than 10%). 3. Drastically increase hip-fire recoil. The dispersion can actually stay where it's at. And that's it. This should at least lessen the RR's effectiveness in CQC, helping to cement it's role as the long rage assault rifle. Honestly after all this it might still be doing just a little bit too much damage for how much range it has, but I think this would be a pretty good starting point. Comments welcome and appreciated. But please folks, try to keep it constructive and civil. Flame wars help literally no one. Honestly i cant imagine better weapon for support (like Iam), i know the rifle need some tinking but DEFO not a NERF like you sent. I can accept bigger dispersion/recoil on CQC. But by lore it finalized arm. Support - Tactician/Support
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2890	Posted - 2014.01.29 06:09:00 - [3] - Quote I have grown weary of this discussion. You have mentioned what many folks have echoed. All those nerfs wanted based on the sole fact that people believe it is supposed to be bad in the CQC. Which means, folks are expecting to win their battles against the RR in CQC. But since they aren't, they demand a nerf. What is absolutely appalling is that no one has accounted for the player skill in the matter. Perhaps we have learned our rifle well? The punchline? The CR has dropped me from distances that is highly questionable but no one is talking about that because the majority of forum users love the CR. It's the same thing with the SCR, a highly dangerous weapon that no one talked about because everybody used it. But oh no, nerf those AR users. It's hard to take these nerf threads serious when they stem from biased opinions and bad experiences. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 90	Posted - 2014.01.29 06:17:00 - [4] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: I have grown weary of this discussion. You have mentioned what many folks have echoed. All those nerfs wanted based on the sole fact that people believe it is supposed to be bad in the CQC. Which means, folks are expecting to win their battles against the RR in CQC. But since they aren't, they demand a nerf. What is absolutely appalling is that no one has accounted for the player skill in the matter. Perhaps we have learned our rifle well? The punchline? The CR has dropped me from distances that is highly questionable but no one is talking about that because the majority of forum users love the CR. It's the same thing with the SCR, a highly dangerous weapon that no one talked about because everybody used it. But oh no, nerf those AR users. It's hard to take these nerf threads serious when they stem from biased opinions and bad experiences. Boyo it is not first time when you talking for me boyo Support - Tactician/Support
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1243	Posted - 2014.01.29 06:19:00 - [5] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: I have grown weary of this discussion. You have mentioned what many folks have echoed. All those nerfs wanted based on the sole fact that people believe it is supposed to be bad in the CQC. Which means, folks are expecting to win their battles against the RR in CQC. But since they aren't, they demand a nerf. What is absolutely appalling is that no one has accounted for the player skill in the matter. Perhaps we have learned our rifle well? The punchline? The CR has dropped me from distances that is highly questionable but no one is talking about that because the majority of forum users love the CR. It's the same thing with the SCR, a highly dangerous weapon that no one talked about because everybody used it. But oh no, nerf those AR users. It's hard to take these nerf threads serious when they stem from biased opinions and bad experiences. Where's your proof that most people on the forum use Crs and ScRs? Or did you just pull thatout of thin air? Unlike the Rail rifle, the scrambler actually has a drawback, where's the downside to a rail rifle? I stopped using my duvolles by the time I had advanced rail rifles because of how much of a overall improvement it is. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 586	Posted - 2014.01.29 06:19:00 - [6] - Quote Sam Tektzby wrote: Michael Arck wrote: I have grown weary of this discussion. You have mentioned what many folks have echoed. All those nerfs wanted based on the sole fact that people believe it is supposed to be bad in the CQC. Which means, folks are expecting to win their battles against the RR in CQC. But since they aren't, they demand a nerf. What is absolutely appalling is that no one has accounted for the player skill in the matter. Perhaps we have learned our rifle well? The punchline? The CR has dropped me from distances that is highly questionable but no one is talking about that because the majority of forum users love the CR. It's the same thing with the SCR, a highly dangerous weapon that no one talked about because everybody used it. But oh no, nerf those AR users. It's hard to take these nerf threads serious when they stem from biased opinions and bad experiences. Boyo it is not first time when you talking for me boyo Agreed. I don't need luck, I have ammo. Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep. CEO of We Who Walk Alone
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 620	Posted - 2014.01.29 06:24:00 - [7] - Quote Between my 2 characters I have CR at Prof. 4, RR at prof.3 and ScR at Prof. 5. The AR I only have skilled to OP 4 on one of the chars. Let me first off say all 4 rifles are better than all other weapons in the game I mostly use the AScR and its no where near as terrible as people say especially at close to mid range I prefer the CR out of all of them, I think it is the best all around. I would rather have it than the RR at CQC and it ties with the AScR and ARR for me. Mid range the CR and ScR just about tie and I prefer either to the ARR and the RR is just behind its "little brother". Long range the RR is by far king followed by ScR and lastly CR. All of them are perfectly usable at pretty much all ranges and then the advantages come down to preference and ease of use. At mid range I would take just about any of the rifles to be equal Just because a rifle may be a bit better suited at a certain range does not mean it should be a garaunteed win. Skill and skills play a major role as does the situation. If you are honest there is rarely the situation where 2 people are fighting each other 1 v. 1 with both of them firing at the same time on even terrain etc... Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2892	Posted - 2014.01.29 06:37:00 - [8] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Michael Arck wrote: I have grown weary of this discussion. You have mentioned what many folks have echoed. All those nerfs wanted based on the sole fact that people believe it is supposed to be bad in the CQC. Which means, folks are expecting to win their battles against the RR in CQC. But since they aren't, they demand a nerf. What is absolutely appalling is that no one has accounted for the player skill in the matter. Perhaps we have learned our rifle well? The punchline? The CR has dropped me from distances that is highly questionable but no one is talking about that because the majority of forum users love the CR. It's the same thing with the SCR, a highly dangerous weapon that no one talked about because everybody used it. But oh no, nerf those AR users. It's hard to take these nerf threads serious when they stem from biased opinions and bad experiences. Where's your proof that most people on the forum use Crs and ScRs? Or did you just pull thatout of thin air? Unlike the Rail rifle, the scrambler actually has a drawback, where's the downside to a rail rifle? I stopped using my duvolles by the time I had advanced rail rifles because of how much of a overall improvement it is. Oh c'mon man with the diversionary tactic here. It is highly known that people here cry nerf for weapons they don't use hardly. The proof can be found in that no one is talking about the CR. Not one mercenary. Yet we have lemmings all talking about the RR because they either die too much about it or it's the thing to do nowadays. In other words, bandwagon hoppers. Before the RR was introduced, so many people went on and on about the AR. It was also well known that the majority of the forums used the SCR because it was such a lethal weapon. When the SCR was mentioned as being a problem, you couldn't find two souls in a SCR needs nerf thread. The weapon was respected and mercs were told to be cautious of it. Fast forward to now and the RR is a step behind the SCR. But now, people are talking about the RR needs a nerf? Are you kidding me? The SCR can drop a person in about three shots if used correctly but the RR needs nerfing because folks have found a way to maximize their weapon? Downsides? The kickback makes it for harder tracking on moving targets. The charge up time can leave you vulnerable to faster firing weapons. A Duvolle can drop a RR user if he's not prepared for an oncoming target. By the time his RR starts talking, the Duvolle will drop a RR user. And get outta here with the SCR has a drawback. What is that drawback? Don't tell me its the non existent over heating problem. SCR users know how to finger pop their SCR...that's cool. RR users know how to optimize their weapon...it needs a nerf. Doesn't make any sense. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1245	Posted - 2014.01.29 06:50:00 - [9] - Quote First off, prior to the other rifled being released the Ar was the most used rifle, maybe even weapon. While people do try to get weapons thst they don't use nerfed, have youever considered that legitimate points were made in some of the posts? The Scr doesn'tneed a Nerf because unlike therail and combat it has something called a downside. That's a load of bull to claim that the Scr outperforms the rail outside situations where the scr user gets time to charge before being shot. I use the rail rifle, every other rifle kicks identically, how does a charge that short make a difference? Of course a weapon doing the same dps will win if they get the drop on the rr user. Your "nonexistent overheating" comment gave away that you either haven't used the weapon or you're lying. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2895	Posted - 2014.01.29 07:12:00 - [10] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: First off, prior to the other rifled being released the Ar was the most used rifle, maybe even weapon. While people do try to get weapons thst they don't use nerfed, have youever considered that legitimate points were made in some of the posts? The Scr doesn'tneed a Nerf because unlike therail and combat it has something called a downside. That's a load of bull to claim that the Scr outperforms the rail outside situations where the scr user gets time to charge before being shot. I use the rail rifle, every other rifle kicks identically, how does a charge that short make a difference? Of course a weapon doing the same dps will win if they get the drop on the rr user. Your "nonexistent overheating" comment gave away that you either haven't used the weapon or you're lying. Yes I have. I read every OP sometimes once or twice over, especially a topic concerning a nerfing of the RR. I consider it. Look at the information and judge objectively. If I don't have a counter argument and I see what they see, then I agree with their statement. The problem is, everytime I see a "nerf the RR" post, its never objective. Its starts off very subjective. Usually it begins with "The RR isn't supposed to be good in CQC" Now when I read that, my left eyebrow raises in curiosity. So it's not because of its strength overall. It's not showing signs of being greater than any other weapons. The nerfs are wanted so it can drastically change its performance in CQC. Now that I come to that platform of thought, I begin to wonder, well what if the user is just good with the RR? To maximize your lethality on the field, you explore your weaknesses and that of your weapon so you know how to perform at the most optimal. When I get into CQC, often times, I can "see" the opposing merc smiling because he figures that because I have a RR, I don't know how to shoot it. With strafing, tracking, targeting the cranium/chest region...the RR is vicious in the right hands while in CQC. It turns into a jitter fight since now the enemy is realizing that I'm actually hitting him well with the RR. If I maintain my discipline, he falls. Plus, because of it being rail, you never actually shoot directly unless his mass fills up all the reticule. You lead your target by strafing to you the way you want to so when you fire a shot, he strafes right into its line of fire. Yet there are times when I've gone up against a CR thinking I'm going to win the 1v1 because I just downed some guy. I'm in considerable distance (or least I believe so) from the CR. Distance I believe to be suitable enough to give me some breathing room and lighten the damage. Yet, his finger popping skill and his strafing drops me faster than I expected. Lesson learned. No nerf required. And about the overheating, I have used the SCR. You don't just lay on the trigger. A viziam and the ASCR can drop opponents quickly without gaining much heat. If you fire correctly, pauses between bursts, you won't overheat. Maybe for your standards and people who just lay on the trigger run into that problem but most don't. Most SCR users rarely overheat because they know their weapon. And sir, you are spewing a load of bull if you don't think that the SCR truthfully trumps all weapons in combat. The SCR is a beast and I don't even use it. Doesn't even need a nerf (but it can be argued). The SCR trumps in the right hands. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1107	Posted - 2014.01.29 07:16:00 - [11] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: I know, I know, there's already been a billion of these. But I don't think I've seen someone suggest my ideas specifically yet, so why not. Keeping it nice and simple: 1. Increase charge-up time to 0.5 seconds. 2. Slightly reduce clip size (probably no more than 10%). 3. Drastically increase hip-fire recoil. The dispersion can actually stay where it's at. And that's it. This should at least lessen the RR's effectiveness in CQC, helping to cement it's role as the long rage assault rifle. Honestly after all this it might still be doing just a little bit too much damage for how much range it has, but I think this would be a pretty good starting point. Comments welcome and appreciated. But please folks, try to keep it constructive and civil. Flame wars help literally no one. Also, andd blast radius to RR. Its Rail tech. Prepare for 1.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhISgw3I2w
Lavirac JR DUST University Ivy League 177	Posted - 2014.01.29 07:26:00 - [12] - Quote I see every rifle being used in kill feeds in my play, so I don't quite buy the need to nerf any of them. When the TAC needed a nerf, you saw the kill feeds were dominated by TACs. I don't see the kill feeds dominated by any infantry weapons, it is pretty balanced to be honest. If anything, the AR variants of the TAC, Breach, and Burst should be adjusted, making them useful but not as useful as the SCR, RR, and CR respectively. That would make Gallente Commandos quite useful in 1.8 and give AR it's jack of all trades aspect. With 1.8 the laser rifle is being fixed, I think weapons should all be fixed before we ask for nerfs. Not only the AR variants, but also the plasma cannon, swarm launcher, etc... A would be logi looking for heavies in all the wrong places.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1245	Posted - 2014.01.29 07:28:00 - [13] - Quote You're ignoring that the only other rifle hat can reach that far has a penalty at short range, why should the rail rifle differ from that? Your weapon is meant to be,used at a range and should have drawbacks for the user just like shorter range weapons are penalized when shooting at a distance. I can't comment on the combat rifle much. I use advanced scramblers with proficiency 2, so of course a prototype,will kill quicker while generating less heat. It's so ironic how you claim I'm spewing bull yet you defend the rail rifle, obviously every weapon trumps in the right hands, but the rail rifle turns everyone's hands into the right hands. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 572	Posted - 2014.01.29 07:30:00 - [14] - Quote RR is nowhere nearly as deadly as the old TAC was, people need to htfu and get good tbh.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2900	Posted - 2014.01.29 07:42:00 - [15] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: You're ignoring that the only other rifle hat can reach that far has a penalty at short range, why should the rail rifle differ from that? Your weapon is meant to be,used at a range and should have drawbacks for the user just like shorter range weapons are penalized when shooting at a distance. I can't comment on the combat rifle much. I use advanced scramblers with proficiency 2, so of course a prototype,will kill quicker while generating less heat. It's so ironic how you claim I'm spewing bull yet you defend the rail rifle, obviously every weapon trumps in the right hands, but the rail rifle turns everyone's hands into the right hands. Did you digest my post properly? Cause I defended other weapons besides RR, the CR and SCR included. And yes, the weapon is good for range kills but what's that saying? **** happens? I kill most targets at a distance but hell, you gotta get to the objective somehow. You gotta hack it somehow. You gotta learn how to use your rifle when hacking objective is like shaking a bee hive. And then even after your claim I don't know what I'm talking about with the SCR, you come around and agree that the "downside" you speak of concerning the SCR is basically nonexistent. But no one is asking for the overheating to be a real problem for the SCR, but lets increase that spool up time for the RR because, ya know, I die by it often. LOL!!! Like I said, diversionary tactics at work. This is preposterous Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Summ Dude OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 153	Posted - 2014.01.29 07:45:00 - [16] - Quote I could've sworn I asked for constructive, civil comments. Weird. And disappointing honestly. Anywho, still open for reasonable discussion based on actual logic. Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1245	Posted - 2014.01.29 07:54:00 - [17] - Quote When you close in use your secondary, if it worked for me and everyone else who used a laser rifle, you shouldn't have,any problem doing the same. Saying you don't think it needs a Nerf isn't exactly a defense when you turn around and claim that people have done outrageous things with said weapons. Now I'm wondering about your reading comprehension skills, no where in my post did I say that the downside isn't noticeable, just that it becomes less noticeable with a better weapon. Yes, of course I'm diverting from the topic while you're the one suggesting other weapons are broken. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1245	Posted - 2014.01.29 07:57:00 - [18] - Quote I believe that the best thing to do is lower the damage SLIGHTLY snd give it similar mechanics to the laser rifle, even when the laser was op the damage reduction at close range kept it from fully dominating. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2901	Posted - 2014.01.29 07:58:00 - [19] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Does anybody agree with me? I rather talk to those people instead of those with opposing opinions. Fixed Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 232	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:06:00 - [20] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: I know, I know, there's already been a billion of these. But I don't think I've seen someone suggest my ideas specifically yet, so why not. Keeping it nice and simple: 1. Increase charge-up time to 0.5 seconds. 2. Slightly reduce clip size (probably no more than 10%). 3. Drastically increase hip-fire recoil. The dispersion can actually stay where it's at. And that's it. This should at least lessen the RR's effectiveness in CQC, helping to cement it's role as the long rage assault rifle. Honestly after all this it might still be doing just a little bit too much damage for how much range it has, but I think this would be a pretty good starting point. Comments welcome and appreciated. But please folks, try to keep it constructive and civil. Flame wars help literally no one. The hipfire criticism is unwaranted, ccp own post about the rr sold it on how good the hipfire is, thats what they said about the weapon, it has great hipfire, thats the sweet spot of the gun. People want it nerfed because they are dying too it.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4380	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:06:00 - [21] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: how does a charge that short make a difference? Of course a weapon doing the same dps will win if they get the drop on the rr user. If both players run around the corner and hit an unexpected enemy at the same time, even if both player react perfectly, the Rail Rifle's first shot will fire a quarter-second later than the opponent. It's not about "getting the drop" on the RR user, simply MATCHING them in alertness. if you're in an EQUAL situation against the RR user, the design of the weapon automatically gives an advantage to an opponent using another weapon. It's a small advantage, but it's enough to tip the balance in what should otherwise be an even match-up. I think it would be fair enough to give the Rail Rifle a significant reduction in hipfire accuracy - on the condition that it gets a slight INCREASE to aimed accuracy along with it. This would make it a much more long-range focused weapon, as it should be.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1246	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:13:00 - [22] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: how does a charge that short make a difference? Of course a weapon doing the same dps will win if they get the drop on the rr user. If both players run around the corner and hit an unexpected enemy at the same time, even if both player react perfectly, the Rail Rifle's first shot will fire a quarter-second later than the opponent. It's not about "getting the drop" on the RR user, simply MATCHING them in alertness. if you're in an EQUAL situation against the RR user, the design of the weapon automatically gives an advantage to an opponent using another weapon. It's a small advantage, but it's enough to tip the balance in what should otherwise be an even match-up. I think it would be fair enough to give the Rail Rifle a significant reduction in hipfire accuracy - on the condition that it gets a slight INCREASE to aimed accuracy along with it. This would make it a much more long-range focused weapon, as it should be. Fair enough, but I think it should keep it's accuracy in exchange for laser rifle like mechanics. From my own experience .25 seconds rarely decides the fight against my favor. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 574	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:18:00 - [23] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Summ Dude wrote: I know, I know, there's already been a billion of these. But I don't think I've seen someone suggest my ideas specifically yet, so why not. Keeping it nice and simple: 1. Increase charge-up time to 0.5 seconds. 2. Slightly reduce clip size (probably no more than 10%). 3. Drastically increase hip-fire recoil. The dispersion can actually stay where it's at. And that's it. This should at least lessen the RR's effectiveness in CQC, helping to cement it's role as the long rage assault rifle. Honestly after all this it might still be doing just a little bit too much damage for how much range it has, but I think this would be a pretty good starting point. Comments welcome and appreciated. But please folks, try to keep it constructive and civil. Flame wars help literally no one. The hipfire criticism is unwaranted, ccp own post about the rr sold it on how good the hipfire is, thats what they said about the weapon, it has great hipfire, thats the sweet spot of the gun. People want it nerfed because they are dying too it. Exactly this, a lot of caldari players waiting for a LONG time for this weapon so its being used a lot, its getting a lot of kills but there have been actual broke weapons in the past FP/ TAC and the RR is still under par compared to the ScR and CR under 60m
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 611	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:22:00 - [24] - Quote My problem isn't Hipfire. Keep it. My problem isn't spool time. For all i care, make it .0001. My problem is the fact it does 3 DPS less than a same tier Gallente AR. In EVE, hell ALL sci-fi games, the longer range weapons have higher alpha, and less DPS. In Mechwarrior 4 you couldn't just stack AC5's and instaWTFpwn Assaults(super heavies) from range AND CQC. In MW4 you couldn't stack large lasers and have more sustained DPS than a similar tonnage salvo of small lasers. In Halo, you get a high DPS AR, higher alpha Battle rifle, and then the DMR. In Star Wars: Battlefront 2(god that game had some problems) you didn't have snipers running into CQC because their sniper had the same DPS as an AR or shotty. Chainguns didn't snipe across the map too well either. Would you like me to CONTINUE pointing out Sci Fi shooters that follow this logic? Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.
Summ Dude OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 153	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:33:00 - [25] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: The hipfire criticism is unwaranted, ccp own post about the rr sold it on how good the hipfire is, thats what they said about the weapon, it has great hipfire, thats the sweet spot of the gun. People want it nerfed because they are dying too it. I'm not sure I follow, why exactly should this gun have virtually zero hip-fire recoil? Like I said, I've got no issues with the dispersion. But why should a gun designed for long range have near perfect aim in close quarters? Garrett Blacknova wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: how does a charge that short make a difference? Of course a weapon doing the same dps will win if they get the drop on the rr user. If both players run around the corner and hit an unexpected enemy at the same time, even if both player react perfectly, the Rail Rifle's first shot will fire a quarter-second later than the opponent. It's not about "getting the drop" on the RR user, simply MATCHING them in alertness. if you're in an EQUAL situation against the RR user, the design of the weapon automatically gives an advantage to an opponent using another weapon. It's a small advantage, but it's enough to tip the balance in what should otherwise be an even match-up. I think it would be fair enough to give the Rail Rifle a significant reduction in hipfire accuracy - on the condition that it gets a slight INCREASE to aimed accuracy along with it. This would make it a much more long-range focused weapon, as it should be. All reasonable points, although I'm not sure how the RR could really get any more accurate when ADS, given how tight the dispersion is. What exactly do you mean by that? Vermaak Doe wrote: Fair enough, but I think it should keep it's accuracy in exchange for laser rifle like mechanics. From my own experience .25 seconds rarely decides the fight against my favor. I assume by LR-like mechanics you mean having it just straight do less damage up close? I'd kinda prefer to keep that as an interesting quirk of the LR, personally. I definitely agree that 0.25 seconds is virtually meaningless (I literally forget it's there half the time I'm using the RR), which is why my suggestion includes upping it to 0.5 seconds. If it's gonna be a mechanic of the weapon, let's actually make it a noticeable one. Lynn Beck wrote: My problem isn't Hipfire. Keep it. My problem isn't spool time. For all i care, make it .0001. My problem is the fact it does 3 DPS less than a same tier Gallente AR. In EVE, hell ALL sci-fi games, the longer range weapons have higher alpha, and less DPS. In Mechwarrior 4 you couldn't just stack AC5's and instaWTFpwn Assaults(super heavies) from range AND CQC. In MW4 you couldn't stack large lasers and have more sustained DPS than a similar tonnage salvo of small lasers. In Halo, you get a high DPS AR, higher alpha Battle rifle, and then the DMR. In Star Wars: Battlefront 2(god that game had some problems) you didn't have snipers running into CQC because their sniper had the same DPS as an AR or shotty. Chainguns didn't snipe across the map too well either. Would you like me to CONTINUE pointing out Sci Fi shooters that follow this logic? Unfortunately I haven't played most of those games seriously. But regardless, I'm not really big on directly comparing this game to others, especially when it comes to balance. I'd much rather that Dust just be able to stand on it's own two feet, and secure it's place as it's own unique experience. Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Palatinate Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 263	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:35:00 - [26] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: how does a charge that short make a difference? Of course a weapon doing the same dps will win if they get the drop on the rr user. If both players run around the corner and hit an unexpected enemy at the same time, even if both player react perfectly, the Rail Rifle's first shot will fire a quarter-second later than the opponent. It's not about "getting the drop" on the RR user, simply MATCHING them in alertness. if you're in an EQUAL situation against the RR user, the design of the weapon automatically gives an advantage to an opponent using another weapon. It's a small advantage, but it's enough to tip the balance in what should otherwise be an even match-up. I think it would be fair enough to give the Rail Rifle a significant reduction in hipfire accuracy - on the condition that it gets a slight INCREASE to aimed accuracy along with it. This would make it a much more long-range focused weapon, as it should be. Fair enough, but I think it should keep it's accuracy in exchange for laser rifle like mechanics. From my own experience .25 seconds rarely decides the fight against my favor. PC is a very good example. I play against AE, DDB and NS. Ive never seen more combat rifles in a matches EVER! There are around 18 combat rifles from both sides while the rest are either vehicles or specialty weapons. Only I and 2 other people I know of use a RR in PC. Even my CEO said you need to spec into the combat rifle some time just because of its sheer superiority of most weapons. Not to mention people who play peek-a-boo with you causing you to re-spool multiple times is FRUSTRATING! Either shoot 2 rounds then stop or waste your whole clip. No, RR does not need a nerf. "Hiding will be seen as an act of aggression!" - Battlefield 3 Me: lol what?
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2905	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:35:00 - [27] - Quote Just a thought: SP goes into skill progression which lowers recoil, increase damage and such. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Summ Dude OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 153	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:38:00 - [28] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Just a thought: SP goes into skill progression which lowers recoil, increase damage and such. This is true of every weapon; I'm not sure why you're pointing it out now. Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 547	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:38:00 - [29] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: First off, prior to the other rifled being released the Ar was the most used rifle, maybe even weapon. While people do try to get weapons thst they don't use nerfed, have youever considered that legitimate points were made in some of the posts? The Scr doesn'tneed a Nerf because unlike therail and combat it has something called a downside. That's a load of bull to claim that the Scr outperforms the rail outside situations where the scr user gets time to charge before being shot. I use the rail rifle, every other rifle kicks identically, how does a charge that short make a difference? Of course a weapon doing the same dps will win if they get the drop on the rr user. Your "nonexistent overheating" comment gave away that you either haven't used the weapon or you're lying. Yes I have. I read every OP sometimes once or twice over, especially a topic concerning a nerfing of the RR. I consider it. Look at the information and judge objectively. If I don't have a counter argument and I see what they see, then I agree with their statement. The problem is, everytime I see a "nerf the RR" post, its never objective. Its starts off very subjective. Usually it begins with "The RR isn't supposed to be good in CQC" Now when I read that, my left eyebrow raises in curiosity. So it's not because of its strength overall. It's not showing signs of being greater than any other weapons. The nerfs are wanted so it can drastically change its performance in CQC. Now that I come to that platform of thought, I begin to wonder, well what if the user is just good with the RR? To maximize your lethality on the field, you explore your weaknesses and that of your weapon so you know how to perform at the most optimal. When I get into CQC, often times, I can "see" the opposing merc smiling because he figures that because I have a RR, I don't know how to shoot it. With strafing, tracking, targeting the cranium/chest region...the RR is vicious in the right hands while in CQC. It turns into a jitter fight since now the enemy is realizing that I'm actually hitting him well with the RR. If I maintain my discipline, he falls. Plus, because of it being rail, you never actually shoot directly unless his mass fills up all the reticule. You lead your target by strafing to you the way you want to so when you fire a shot, he strafes right into its line of fire. Yet there are times when I've gone up against a CR thinking I'm going to win the 1v1 because I just downed some guy. I'm in considerable distance (or least I believe so) from the CR. Distance I believe to be suitable enough to give me some breathing room and lighten the damage. Yet, his finger popping skill and his strafing drops me faster than I expected. Lesson learned. No nerf required. And about the overheating, I have used the SCR. You don't just lay on the trigger. A viziam and the ASCR can drop opponents quickly without gaining much heat. If you fire correctly, pauses between bursts, you won't overheat. Maybe for your standards and people who just lay on the trigger run into that problem but most don't. Most SCR users rarely overheat because they know their weapon. And sir, you are spewing a load of bull if you don't think that the SCR truthfully trumps all weapons in combat. The SCR is a beast and I don't even use it. Doesn't even need a nerf (but it can be argued). The SCR trumps in the right hands. The main problem with the RR (well basicly with all Rifles) is they ALL have comparable DPS ratings, so range is what makes them different and the RR has the longest range coupled with great hipfire accuracy. So while it is equally effective like the CQC weapons it provides way bigger Range thats simply imbalanced. The spool up time is not really a drawback and I don't even noticed the spool up the first few days I used the gun.
Summ Dude OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 154	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:39:00 - [30] - Quote Added a quick bullet point to the OP about the RR's seemingly invisible bullets. Not just a laymen, but the laymen.

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4217	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:40:00 - [31] - Quote and I'm still here using my severely UP assault rifle. I love how the Scrambler and AR is OP threads ceased to exist. You all got something 6 x as worse.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2906	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:41:00 - [32] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Just a thought: SP goes into skill progression which lowers recoil, increase damage and such. This is true of every weapon; I'm not sure why you're pointing it out now. Because you said something about it having zero hip fire recoil Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2906	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:43:00 - [33] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Added a quick bullet point to the OP about the RR's seemingly invisible bullets. facepalm Man, are you kidding me? LOL!!!! Sgt Kirk wrote: You all got something 6 x as worse. I can't believe it, I'm agreeing with a Gallente. We do, we certainly do. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 548	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:45:00 - [34] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: and I'm still here using my severely UP assault rifle. I love how the Scrambler and AR is OP threads ceased to exist. You all got something 6 x as worse. Yeah sometimes CCP has strange ideas on balancing OP weapons. In case of teh AR they simply introduced new rifles that are even more OP. To be fair the SCR is still a very potent gun.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2906	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:47:00 - [35] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: First off, prior to the other rifled being released the Ar was the most used rifle, maybe even weapon. While people do try to get weapons thst they don't use nerfed, have youever considered that legitimate points were made in some of the posts? The Scr doesn'tneed a Nerf because unlike therail and combat it has something called a downside. That's a load of bull to claim that the Scr outperforms the rail outside situations where the scr user gets time to charge before being shot. I use the rail rifle, every other rifle kicks identically, how does a charge that short make a difference? Of course a weapon doing the same dps will win if they get the drop on the rr user. Your "nonexistent overheating" comment gave away that you either haven't used the weapon or you're lying. Yes I have. I read every OP sometimes once or twice over, especially a topic concerning a nerfing of the RR. I consider it. Look at the information and judge objectively. If I don't have a counter argument and I see what they see, then I agree with their statement. The problem is, everytime I see a "nerf the RR" post, its never objective. Its starts off very subjective. Usually it begins with "The RR isn't supposed to be good in CQC" Now when I read that, my left eyebrow raises in curiosity. So it's not because of its strength overall. It's not showing signs of being greater than any other weapons. The nerfs are wanted so it can drastically change its performance in CQC. Now that I come to that platform of thought, I begin to wonder, well what if the user is just good with the RR? To maximize your lethality on the field, you explore your weaknesses and that of your weapon so you know how to perform at the most optimal. When I get into CQC, often times, I can "see" the opposing merc smiling because he figures that because I have a RR, I don't know how to shoot it. With strafing, tracking, targeting the cranium/chest region...the RR is vicious in the right hands while in CQC. It turns into a jitter fight since now the enemy is realizing that I'm actually hitting him well with the RR. If I maintain my discipline, he falls. Plus, because of it being rail, you never actually shoot directly unless his mass fills up all the reticule. You lead your target by strafing to you the way you want to so when you fire a shot, he strafes right into its line of fire. Yet there are times when I've gone up against a CR thinking I'm going to win the 1v1 because I just downed some guy. I'm in considerable distance (or least I believe so) from the CR. Distance I believe to be suitable enough to give me some breathing room and lighten the damage. Yet, his finger popping skill and his strafing drops me faster than I expected. Lesson learned. No nerf required. And about the overheating, I have used the SCR. You don't just lay on the trigger. A viziam and the ASCR can drop opponents quickly without gaining much heat. If you fire correctly, pauses between bursts, you won't overheat. Maybe for your standards and people who just lay on the trigger run into that problem but most don't. Most SCR users rarely overheat because they know their weapon. And sir, you are spewing a load of bull if you don't think that the SCR truthfully trumps all weapons in combat. The SCR is a beast and I don't even use it. Doesn't even need a nerf (but it can be argued). The SCR trumps in the right hands. The main problem with the RR (well basicly with all Rifles) is they ALL have comparable DPS ratings, so range is what makes them different and the RR has the longest range coupled with great hipfire accuracy. So while it is equally effective like the CQC weapons it provides way bigger Range thats simply imbalanced. The spool up time is not really a drawback and I don't even noticed the spool up the first few days I used the gun. oh my god...it has taken root. it has grown like a disease on my beautiful petunias. Sir, the RR is made to have range. It is rail technology. This was long discussed before it was released. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
4447 ZionTCD Public Disorder. 965	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:47:00 - [36] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: how does a charge that short make a difference? Of course a weapon doing the same dps will win if they get the drop on the rr user. If both players run around the corner and hit an unexpected enemy at the same time, even if both player react perfectly, the Rail Rifle's first shot will fire a quarter-second later than the opponent. It's not about "getting the drop" on the RR user, simply MATCHING them in alertness. if you're in an EQUAL situation against the RR user, the design of the weapon automatically gives an advantage to an opponent using another weapon. It's a small advantage, but it's enough to tip the balance in what should otherwise be an even match-up. I think it would be fair enough to give the Rail Rifle a significant reduction in hipfire accuracy - on the condition that it gets a slight INCREASE to aimed accuracy along with it. This would make it a much more long-range focused weapon, as it should be. oh, and their even damage to... Troll, For lifeGÇª But maybe a dragon, uh a bigger dragon.
Summ Dude OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 154	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:47:00 - [37] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: and I'm still here using my severely UP assault rifle. I love how the Scrambler and AR is OP threads ceased to exist. You all got something 6 x as worse. 6x is probably a bit much, but I could probably agree with calling the RR the best all around assault rifle. At least in terms of accessibility. To quote Extra Credits (because damn do I love doing that), it has an incredibly low skill:power ratio. Michael Arck wrote: Summ Dude wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Just a thought: SP goes into skill progression which lowers recoil, increase damage and such. This is true of every weapon; I'm not sure why you're pointing it out now. Because you said something about it having zero hip fire recoil The RR has very small hip-fire recoil with or without levels in the skill. I think it just needs to be far greater than it currently is. Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 576	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:51:00 - [38] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: and I'm still here using my severely UP assault rifle. I love how the Scrambler and AR is OP threads ceased to exist. You all got something 6 x as worse. AR is UP lolwut? Its simply being a hot topic because scrubs letting new rifle users farm easy kills instead of playing the game with their head switched on.
Summ Dude OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 154	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:54:00 - [39] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Summ Dude wrote: Added a quick bullet point to the OP about the RR's seemingly invisible bullets. facepalm Man, are you kidding me? LOL!!!! Not sure what point you're trying to make. Michael Arck wrote: Sir, the RR is made to have range. It is rail technology. This was long discussed before it was released. Agreed, I definitely think taking any range away from the RR is the wrong way to go. Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 549	Posted - 2014.01.29 08:56:00 - [40] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: First off, prior to the other rifled being released the Ar was the most used rifle, maybe even weapon. While people do try to get weapons thst they don't use nerfed, have youever considered that legitimate points were made in some of the posts? The Scr doesn'tneed a Nerf because unlike therail and combat it has something called a downside. That's a load of bull to claim that the Scr outperforms the rail outside situations where the scr user gets time to charge before being shot. I use the rail rifle, every other rifle kicks identically, how does a charge that short make a difference? Of course a weapon doing the same dps will win if they get the drop on the rr user. Your "nonexistent overheating" comment gave away that you either haven't used the weapon or you're lying. Yes I have. I read every OP sometimes once or twice over, especially a topic concerning a nerfing of the RR. I consider it. Look at the information and judge objectively. If I don't have a counter argument and I see what they see, then I agree with their statement. The problem is, everytime I see a "nerf the RR" post, its never objective. Its starts off very subjective. Usually it begins with "The RR isn't supposed to be good in CQC" Now when I read that, my left eyebrow raises in curiosity. So it's not because of its strength overall. It's not showing signs of being greater than any other weapons. The nerfs are wanted so it can drastically change its performance in CQC. Now that I come to that platform of thought, I begin to wonder, well what if the user is just good with the RR? To maximize your lethality on the field, you explore your weaknesses and that of your weapon so you know how to perform at the most optimal. When I get into CQC, often times, I can "see" the opposing merc smiling because he figures that because I have a RR, I don't know how to shoot it. With strafing, tracking, targeting the cranium/chest region...the RR is vicious in the right hands while in CQC. It turns into a jitter fight since now the enemy is realizing that I'm actually hitting him well with the RR. If I maintain my discipline, he falls. Plus, because of it being rail, you never actually shoot directly unless his mass fills up all the reticule. You lead your target by strafing to you the way you want to so when you fire a shot, he strafes right into its line of fire. Yet there are times when I've gone up against a CR thinking I'm going to win the 1v1 because I just downed some guy. I'm in considerable distance (or least I believe so) from the CR. Distance I believe to be suitable enough to give me some breathing room and lighten the damage. Yet, his finger popping skill and his strafing drops me faster than I expected. Lesson learned. No nerf required. And about the overheating, I have used the SCR. You don't just lay on the trigger. A viziam and the ASCR can drop opponents quickly without gaining much heat. If you fire correctly, pauses between bursts, you won't overheat. Maybe for your standards and people who just lay on the trigger run into that problem but most don't. Most SCR users rarely overheat because they know their weapon. And sir, you are spewing a load of bull if you don't think that the SCR truthfully trumps all weapons in combat. The SCR is a beast and I don't even use it. Doesn't even need a nerf (but it can be argued). The SCR trumps in the right hands. The main problem with the RR (well basicly with all Rifles) is they ALL have comparable DPS ratings, so range is what makes them different and the RR has the longest range coupled with great hipfire accuracy. So while it is equally effective like the CQC weapons it provides way bigger Range thats simply imbalanced. The spool up time is not really a drawback and I don't even noticed the spool up the first few days I used the gun. oh my god...it has taken root. it has grown like a disease on my beautiful petunias. Sir, the RR is made to have range. It is rail technology. This was long discussed before it was released. Yeah but ist stupid to have a weapon that has range and cqc capabillities like the weapons that are supposed to excel in cqc. Or would you like to have a sniper rifle with a ROF 600 and tight hipfire?

Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2907	Posted - 2014.01.29 09:09:00 - [41] - Quote A CR user will drop a RR user in CQC, if the CR user isn't some newb Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Summ Dude OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 155	Posted - 2014.01.29 09:11:00 - [42] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: A CR user will drop a RR user in CQC, if the CR user isn't some newb In most scenarios, yes probably. This doesn't mean the RR is still performing better in CQC than it should be. Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 549	Posted - 2014.01.29 09:19:00 - [43] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Michael Arck wrote: A CR user will drop a RR user in CQC, if the CR user isn't some newb In most scenarios, yes probably. This doesn't mean the RR is still performing better in CQC than it should be. The sad part is the CR is a short to mid range weapon and should be less effective in CQC compared to the AR (the supposed CQC king). Based on my experience the CR and RR are similar effective here it depends more on the user. The CR has not that much ammo so every burts should hit whereas the RR can easily strafe around and spraying the tight hipfire, high damage and relative large clip make up the lower dps to a great extend in a longer CQC fight.
Kal Kronos L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 170	Posted - 2014.01.29 09:24:00 - [44] - Quote Logic says the gun is shield tankings answer to all the guns that have killed us just as quickly since I started playing. I run shield suit so I hate scramblers, you run armor so you hate RR. Let me know when a RR kills you as fast as a SCR kills me then you have a right to cry OP and nerf. Avoiding damage>HP, get with the meta already throw some kin cats on your fat suit and start dancing, dance fatty dance. =) What's not to love about the scrambler rifle, the thing is a precision weapon and at the same time a shotgun.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2910	Posted - 2014.01.29 09:35:00 - [45] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Michael Arck wrote: A CR user will drop a RR user in CQC, if the CR user isn't some newb In most scenarios, yes probably. This doesn't mean the RR is still performing better in CQC than it should be. So basically you're still saying since you die alot by the RR in CQC, this should not be? Will that isn't the rifles fault...it is yours. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Summ Dude OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 156	Posted - 2014.01.29 09:41:00 - [46] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: So basically you're still saying since you die alot by the RR in CQC, this should not be? Will that isn't the rifles fault...it is yours. Uh no. I'm saying that (having used it) for a weapon that's designed to be a long range rifle (a role which it does excel at), it performs better than I feel it should in CQC. And I'll recommend you watch the ego. Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Scar Scrilla Cobra Kommando 94	Posted - 2014.01.29 09:50:00 - [47] - Quote I would understand your concerns if only a certain group of players was allowed to use the RR. But since we all can use it without any restrictions why the QQ? IMHO the RR is the final answer to AR 514... Once again: Why nerf smthg that is free for everybody to use as they will and like? If u get shot a lot by RR, grab one yourself and shoot back. Or are you too much of a nobleman to use it? And yeah I use the RR too, but only the basic variant, cuz it serves my purposes well enough at a very low price and PG/CPU consumption. But why not nerf the RR? There's gonna be another weapon after the RR ppl will be asking to be nerfed. "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses" Scar Scrilla - Proud Commando User & Cobra Kommander
Lorhak Gannarsein 1408	Posted - 2014.01.29 09:53:00 - [48] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Summ Dude wrote: Michael Arck wrote: A CR user will drop a RR user in CQC, if the CR user isn't some newb In most scenarios, yes probably. This doesn't mean the RR is still performing better in CQC than it should be. So basically you're still saying since you die alot by the RR in CQC, this should not be? Will that isn't the rifles fault...it is yours. So if I I consistently lose to RR users inside 40m when wielding an AR, but consistently beat AR users when using an RR in the same distance, I'm bad? How exactly are you defending this gun which has identical DPS, longer range, more damage per magazine and has a 'drawback' that's so much less punishing than the ScR's drawback it's not even funny? I mean seriously; I've been using the ScR since it was released; I still die because of overheat every play session. I have died twice thanks to the RR's 'drawback'. In my ADV suit I've destroyed people who came up BEHIND me without my having pre-spooled. If the 'drawback' doesn't kill me when I'm caught by surprise, it's no drawback. And people have been complaining that the ScR was OP ever since aim assist came. Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters. Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
Oswald Rehnquist 1170	Posted - 2014.01.29 09:57:00 - [49] - Quote I don't use any of the 4 main rifles, but I am also aware that the majority armor tank (even when using high slot suits) because shield is in a very specialized place right now. I would imagine a 10% boost to the most popular defense type has something to do with it. Below 28 dB
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2911	Posted - 2014.01.29 09:59:00 - [50] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Michael Arck wrote: So basically you're still saying since you die alot by the RR in CQC, this should not be? Will that isn't the rifles fault...it is yours. Uh no. I'm saying that (having used it) for a weapon that's designed to be a long range rifle (a role which it does excel at), it performs better than I feel it should in CQC. And I'll recommend you watch the ego. But you weren't saying that until you read this... Korvin Lomont wrote: Yeah but ist stupid to have a weapon that has range and cqc capabillities like the weapons that are supposed to excel in cqc. Or would you like to have a sniper rifle with a ROF 600 and tight hipfire? So you really don't have a defensive argument and I highly doubt that you use the RR. You're just saying that just to win a debate. It's good at long range and it does well in CQC...there's no big deal. There are equal opportunities of death at every turn on the battlefield. Reawaken in your new clone and like the lady who narrates the "Way of the Mercenary" video, you should awaken "wiser...ready for the challenges that lie ahead Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]

Summ Dude OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 157	Posted - 2014.01.29 10:06:00 - [51] - Quote Scar Scrilla wrote: I would understand your concerns if only a certain group of players was allowed to use the RR. But since we all can use it without any restrictions why the QQ? IMHO the RR is the final answer to AR 514... Once again: Why nerf smthg that is free for everybody to use as they will and like? If u get shot a lot by RR, grab one yourself and shoot back. Or are you too much of a nobleman to use it? And yeah I use the RR too, but only the basic variant, cuz it serves my purposes well enough at a very low price and PG/CPU consumption. But why not nerf the RR? There's gonna be another weapon after the RR ppl will be asking to be nerfed. Because a major factor of this game is supposed to be diversity. If one weapon is ostensibly better than the rest, there can be no true diversity. Michael Arck wrote: Summ Dude wrote: Michael Arck wrote: So basically you're still saying since you die alot by the RR in CQC, this should not be? Will that isn't the rifles fault...it is yours. Uh no. I'm saying that (having used it) for a weapon that's designed to be a long range rifle (a role which it does excel at), it performs better than I feel it should in CQC. And I'll recommend you watch the ego. But you weren't saying that until you read this... I legit have no idea what you mean here. Korvin Lomont wrote: Yeah but ist stupid to have a weapon that has range and cqc capabillities like the weapons that are supposed to excel in cqc. Or would you like to have a sniper rifle with a ROF 600 and tight hipfire? So you really don't have a defensive argument and I highly doubt that you use the RR. You're just saying that just to win a debate. It's good at long range and it does well in CQC...there's no big deal. There are equal opportunities of death at every turn on the battlefield. Reawaken in your new clone and like the lady who narrates the "Way of the Mercenary" video, you should awaken "wiser...ready for the challenges that lie ahead[/quote] There's kind of a lot arbitrary rhetoric in here, chief. As I said above, the foundation of this game is built on diversity. To help establish this diversity, the game is made with very strong role-based tactics. As such, a gun that's good at everything just doesn't really work. If you want a sort of jack-of-all-trades weapon, that could be alright. But the RR dominates range, and performs decently in CQC; this is fundamentally unbalanced in a game like Dust. Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2913	Posted - 2014.01.29 10:08:00 - [52] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Summ Dude wrote: Michael Arck wrote: A CR user will drop a RR user in CQC, if the CR user isn't some newb In most scenarios, yes probably. This doesn't mean the RR is still performing better in CQC than it should be. So basically you're still saying since you die alot by the RR in CQC, this should not be? Will that isn't the rifles fault...it is yours. So if I I consistently lose to RR users inside 40m when wielding an AR, but consistently beat AR users when using an RR in the same distance, I'm bad? How exactly are you defending this gun which has identical DPS, longer range, more damage per magazine and has a 'drawback' that's so much less punishing than the ScR's drawback it's not even funny? I mean seriously; I've been using the ScR since it was released; I still die because of overheat every play session. I have died twice thanks to the RR's 'drawback'. In my ADV suit I've destroyed people who came up BEHIND me without my having pre-spooled. If the 'drawback' doesn't kill me when I'm caught by surprise, it's no drawback. And people have been complaining that the ScR was OP ever since aim assist came. You are missing what I am saying. You don't continully walk into a brick wall once that you have. An AR user can die to a SCR and ASCR just as fast. To a CR. Even to the Scrambler pistol. If you know of the power of RR, then your strategy needs to adjust. Not the weapon. It's not an overbearing weapon. It's not a OP weapon. I go on my alts with MLT fits and go up against RR users. I know that I cannot provide them a sizeable hitbox for one. Second, I have to sporadically spray pop them for effectiveness, using the spool time against them. Cover must be used because once the RR begins barking, it will do considerable damage. Once shields are lowered, I might get even more aggressive and begin laying down fire since they haven't been able to get decent shots on me. This shifts momentum causing the opponent to reconsider his battle with me. If I get him to run, he will drop. I'm defending the RR because there are ways around it. Ways, I'm not even going to discuss in detail with you because if I see you on the battlefield, I don't want you to know the weaknesses LOL!. There are supermans in Dust and in Dust there are kryptonites for those supermans. If you're not willing to find those kryptonites, then I don't know what to tell you to have you understand that the RR is fine the way it is. This is with all things in Dust. You have to be a smart player. It's a jungle in New Eden. Most of you provide us RR users with easy targets because you're just crying about it being OP instead of understanding that your skill is UP. That you need to readjust your strategy. When you go up against serious corps instead of pub berries, you will understand this. Tears don't get you paid. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2915	Posted - 2014.01.29 10:17:00 - [53] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: There's kind of a lot arbitrary rhetoric in here, chief. As I said above, the foundation of this game is built on diversity. To help establish this diversity, the game is made with very strong role-based tactics. As such, a gun that's good at everything just doesn't really work. If you want a sort of jack-of-all-trades weapon, that could be alright. But the RR dominates range, and performs decently in CQC; this is fundamentally unbalanced in a game like Dust. You are babbling. If this game is about diversity, then how come your skill isn't diversified? How come your strategy hasn't diversified? The RR isn't good at everything. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
RevoL Frog The Generals General Tso's Alliance 268	Posted - 2014.01.29 10:19:00 - [54] - Quote There is a downside to using the RR close quarters, the ROF is slower. When I'm deploying into a CQC scenario I use the AR, but when there's more open space I switch to the RR. I feel more comfortable using my trusty AR for CQC, but that doesn't mean I can't still kill your A$$ with the RR at very close distance, it just takes better tracking, especially against an opponent that can move fast. Now about that ScR... OP much!
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 234	Posted - 2014.01.29 11:05:00 - [55] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: My problem isn't Hipfire. Keep it. My problem isn't spool time. For all i care, make it .0001. My problem is the fact it does 3 DPS less than a same tier Gallente AR. In EVE, hell ALL sci-fi games, the longer range weapons have higher alpha, and less DPS. In Mechwarrior 4 you couldn't just stack AC5's and instaWTFpwn Assaults(super heavies) from range AND CQC. In MW4 you couldn't stack large lasers and have more sustained DPS than a similar tonnage salvo of small lasers. In Halo, you get a high DPS AR, higher alpha Battle rifle, and then the DMR. In Star Wars: Battlefront 2(god that game had some problems) you didn't have snipers running into CQC because their sniper had the same DPS as an AR or shotty. Chainguns didn't snipe across the map too well either. Would you like me to CONTINUE pointing out Sci Fi shooters that follow this logic? But thats not how this weapon was designed, its a frontline combat rifle, it shouod be comprable to both the scr and crmas, well as the plasma rifle, its kick ass in its range, which happens to be longer than the other rifles, is slower firing, has less amo, and short spool up time, this rifle has stretched the battle field and people cant just run stupid.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1247	Posted - 2014.01.29 12:21:00 - [56] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: First off, prior to the other rifled being released the Ar was the most used rifle, maybe even weapon. While people do try to get weapons thst they don't use nerfed, have youever considered that legitimate points were made in some of the posts? The Scr doesn'tneed a Nerf because unlike therail and combat it has something called a downside. That's a load of bull to claim that the Scr outperforms the rail outside situations where the scr user gets time to charge before being shot. I use the rail rifle, every other rifle kicks identically, how does a charge that short make a difference? Of course a weapon doing the same dps will win if they get the drop on the rr user. Your "nonexistent overheating" comment gave away that you either haven't used the weapon or you're lying. Yes I have. I read every OP sometimes once or twice over, especially a topic concerning a nerfing of the RR. I consider it. Look at the information and judge objectively. If I don't have a counter argument and I see what they see, then I agree with their statement. The problem is, everytime I see a "nerf the RR" post, its never objective. Its starts off very subjective. Usually it begins with "The RR isn't supposed to be good in CQC" Now when I read that, my left eyebrow raises in curiosity. So it's not because of its strength overall. It's not showing signs of being greater than any other weapons. The nerfs are wanted so it can drastically change its performance in CQC. Now that I come to that platform of thought, I begin to wonder, well what if the user is just good with the RR? To maximize your lethality on the field, you explore your weaknesses and that of your weapon so you know how to perform at the most optimal. When I get into CQC, often times, I can "see" the opposing merc smiling because he figures that because I have a RR, I don't know how to shoot it. With strafing, tracking, targeting the cranium/chest region...the RR is vicious in the right hands while in CQC. It turns into a jitter fight since now the enemy is realizing that I'm actually hitting him well with the RR. If I maintain my discipline, he falls. Plus, because of it being rail, you never actually shoot directly unless his mass fills up all the reticule. You lead your target by strafing to you the way you want to so when you fire a shot, he strafes right into its line of fire. Yet there are times when I've gone up against a CR thinking I'm going to win the 1v1 because I just downed some guy. I'm in considerable distance (or least I believe so) from the CR. Distance I believe to be suitable enough to give me some breathing room and lighten the damage. Yet, his finger popping skill and his strafing drops me faster than I expected. Lesson learned. No nerf required. And about the overheating, I have used the SCR. You don't just lay on the trigger. A viziam and the ASCR can drop opponents quickly without gaining much heat. If you fire correctly, pauses between bursts, you won't overheat. Maybe for your standards and people who just lay on the trigger run into that problem but most don't. Most SCR users rarely overheat because they know their weapon. And sir, you are spewing a load of bull if you don't think that the SCR truthfully trumps all weapons in combat. The SCR is a beast and I don't even use it. Doesn't even need a nerf (but it can be argued). The SCR trumps in the right hands. The main problem with the RR (well basicly with all Rifles) is they ALL have comparable DPS ratings, so range is what makes them different and the RR has the longest range coupled with great hipfire accuracy. So while it is equally effective like the CQC weapons it provides way bigger Range thats simply imbalanced. The spool up time is not really a drawback and I don't even noticed the spool up the first few days I used the gun. oh my god...it has taken root. it has grown like a disease on my beautiful petunias. Sir, the RR is made to have range. It is rail technology. This was long discussed before it was released. Did you read that post? No where in it did it say it reached too far, but that it does too much damage at that range. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1247	Posted - 2014.01.29 12:23:00 - [57] - Quote Palatinate wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: how does a charge that short make a difference? Of course a weapon doing the same dps will win if they get the drop on the rr user. If both players run around the corner and hit an unexpected enemy at the same time, even if both player react perfectly, the Rail Rifle's first shot will fire a quarter-second later than the opponent. It's not about "getting the drop" on the RR user, simply MATCHING them in alertness. if you're in an EQUAL situation against the RR user, the design of the weapon automatically gives an advantage to an opponent using another weapon. It's a small advantage, but it's enough to tip the balance in what should otherwise be an even match-up. I think it would be fair enough to give the Rail Rifle a significant reduction in hipfire accuracy - on the condition that it gets a slight INCREASE to aimed accuracy along with it. This would make it a much more long-range focused weapon, as it should be. Fair enough, but I think it should keep it's accuracy in exchange for laser rifle like mechanics. From my own experience .25 seconds rarely decides the fight against my favor. PC is a very good example. I play against AE, DDB and NS. Ive never seen more combat rifles in a matches EVER! There are around 18 combat rifles from both sides while the rest are either vehicles or specialty weapons. Only I and 2 other people I know of use a RR in PC. Even my CEO said you need to spec into the combat rifle some time just because of its sheer superiority of most weapons. Not to mention people who play peek-a-boo with you causing you to re-spool multiple times is FRUSTRATING! Either shoot 2 rounds then stop or waste your whole clip. No, RR does not need a nerf. Maybe it is also op, I remember a thread saying it did 100 more dps than any other rifle, again with a range advantage over the Ar. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 903	Posted - 2014.01.29 13:46:00 - [58] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: I have grown weary of this discussion. You have mentioned what many folks have echoed. All those nerfs wanted based on the sole fact that people believe it is supposed to be bad in the CQC. Which means, folks are expecting to win their battles against the RR in CQC. But since they aren't, they demand a nerf. What is absolutely appalling is that no one has accounted for the player skill in the matter. Perhaps we have learned our rifle well? The punchline? The CR has dropped me from distances that is highly questionable but no one is talking about that because the majority of forum users love the CR. It's the same thing with the SCR, a highly dangerous weapon that no one talked about because everybody used it. But oh no, nerf those AR users. It's hard to take these nerf threads serious when they stem from biased opinions and bad experiences. Couldn't have said it better... Most people post here without even speccing into the weapon. If they did and if they could figure out how to use this weapon for CQC they wouldn't be here asking for a NERF and crying over everything that shoots them or hurts their Precious KDR... As you've said, the CR kills a RR user at questionable Range... The SCR, well it's the SCR... Till this day the most deadly weapon... I have proficiency up on AR, RR, CR, SCR, MD, Sniper, Swarms.... So I get itchy when i see posts like this. . . To OP, if you wanna balance the RR, then make proper balancing suggestions... The points you've made are lol Worthy at best... If you have to change the RR, you have to also change CR and SCR... Or else people using RR would simply switch to a CR and keep killing people anyways... Then what are you gonna say, Nerf CR ?! Nerf SCR?! Till it comes down to the weapon you've specced into ?!
Lorhak Gannarsein 1410	Posted - 2014.01.29 14:58:00 - [59] - Quote RevoL Frog wrote: There is a downside to using the RR close quarters, the ROF is slower. When I'm deploying into a CQC scenario I use the AR, but when there's more open space I switch to the RR. I feel more comfortable using my trusty AR for CQC, but that doesn't mean I can't still kill your A$$ with the RR at very close distance, it just takes better tracking, especially against an opponent that can move fast. Now about that ScR... OP much! That's actually an upside. Means your mag lasts longer for more hip fire spray. RR has far higher damage per clip than AR, and takes longer to burn a magazine. Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters. Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 918	Posted - 2014.01.29 15:03:00 - [60] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: RevoL Frog wrote: There is a downside to using the RR close quarters, the ROF is slower. When I'm deploying into a CQC scenario I use the AR, but when there's more open space I switch to the RR. I feel more comfortable using my trusty AR for CQC, but that doesn't mean I can't still kill your A$$ with the RR at very close distance, it just takes better tracking, especially against an opponent that can move fast. Now about that ScR... OP much! That's actually an upside. Means your mag lasts longer for more hip fire spray. RR has far higher damage per clip than AR, and takes longer to burn a magazine. While it takes 2 maybe 3 burst with a CR or two Charge shots with a SCR

tastzlike chicken ROGUE SPADES 121	Posted - 2014.01.29 19:14:00 - [61] - Quote I just don't see the RR as "too good" at CQ ranges. It doesn't suck at CQC, but since when does that have to be a requirement. I would much rather have an AR or CR for CQ. That being said, An increase in spool time to 0.5 s is not unreasonable in general and likely would cause a noticeable increase in losses in those close range 50/50 encounters, and also produce a noticeable effect at mid-ranged combat. Changing more than one stat on the RR (or anything) at the same time is asking for trouble. (Though, I note that the OP was not calling for large changes) At the same time I would like to see the upper range and/or falloff penalty of the CR looked at. I've had my RR out-ranged by CR's (albeit proto) a little too often at distances that seem suspect. For as much as I rage (in private) after getting violently ripped down by a CR at close range I have a hard time asking for a nerf. I give a lot more consideration to my environment now with the RR and CR as part of the game. Before, I could fit an all-purpose AR (perhaps, still) and go about my merry way while being on the lookout for the effective ScR users. Now, I'm changing fits more when I enter a built-up area and tailoring my play to the weapon that's in my hand when I can't get to a resupply. RR and CR feel very close to what they should be; let's be cautious in calling for nerfs; some portion of the DUST dev team seems to be have something against a process based on *incremental change* and observation.
Summ Dude OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 160	Posted - 2014.01.29 21:53:00 - [62] - Quote tastzlike chicken wrote: I just don't see the RR as "too good" at CQ ranges. It doesn't suck at CQC, but since when does that have to be a requirement. I would much rather have an AR or CR for CQ. That being said, An increase in spool time to 0.5 s is not unreasonable in general and likely would cause a noticeable increase in losses in those close range 50/50 encounters, and also produce a noticeable effect at mid-ranged combat. Changing more than one stat on the RR (or anything) at the same time is asking for trouble. (Though, I note that the OP was not calling for large changes) At the same time I would like to see the upper range and/or falloff penalty of the CR looked at. I've had my RR out-ranged by CR's (albeit proto) a little too often at distances that seem suspect. For as much as I rage (in private) after getting violently ripped down by a CR at close range I have a hard time asking for a nerf. I give a lot more consideration to my environment now with the RR and CR as part of the game. Before, I could fit an all-purpose AR (perhaps, still) and go about my merry way while being on the lookout for the effective ScR users. Now, I'm changing fits more when I enter a built-up area and tailoring my play to the weapon that's in my hand when I can't get to a resupply. RR and CR feel very close to what they should be; let's be cautious in calling for nerfs; some portion of the DUST dev team seems to be have something against a process based on *incremental change* and observation. I thank you for the reasonable post. You raise a very good point about fine-tuning one element at a time. I'm not really necessarily against that for the RR, as CCP has had tendencies to "over fix" problems. But I mean, these are relatively minor changes, and they all have a specific reasoning behind them. Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate 625	Posted - 2014.01.29 22:21:00 - [63] - Quote right now the rail rifle seems to be in a league of its own.. in a place it really shouldnt be for the sake of game balance.. id really only say the problem with the rr is the high dmg perhit and the relatively fast rof can just annihilate most suits including heavies. combined with the rather long range it has. we could give it an overheat function to force the player to fire it in bursts.
Summ Dude OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 160	Posted - 2014.01.29 22:32:00 - [64] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: right now the rail rifle seems to be in a league of its own.. in a place it really shouldnt be for the sake of game balance.. id really only say the problem with the rr is the high dmg perhit and the relatively fast rof can just annihilate most suits including heavies. combined with the rather long range it has. we could give it an overheat function to force the player to fire it in bursts. Would an increased charge-up time and smaller clip size not potentially solve these problems? Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
KING CHECKMATE A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 4169	Posted - 2014.01.29 22:35:00 - [65] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: I know, I know, there's already been a billion of these. But I don't think I've seen someone suggest my ideas specifically yet, so why not. Keeping it nice and simple: 1. Increase charge-up time to 0.5 seconds. 2. Slightly reduce clip size (probably no more than 10%). 3. Drastically increase hip-fire recoil. The dispersion can actually stay where it's at. 4(kinda). Give it actual visible bullets and a noticeable line of fire. This goes for the CR too. Is it just me or are these the only two weapons in the game that seem to have invisible bullets? And that's it. This should at least lessen the RR's effectiveness in CQC, helping to cement it's role as the long rage assault rifle. Honestly after all this it might still be doing just a little bit too much damage for how much range it has, but I think this would be a pretty good starting point. Comments welcome and appreciated. But please folks, try to keep it constructive and civil. Flame wars help literally no one. I dont think ANY rifle needs a NERF. All the Niche weapons like MD , Laser Rifle, Shotguns,etc... NEED A BUFF. Remember CCP patches stuff slowly, the fact rifles look OP ATM is not something permanent. If you people get Rifles nerfed, when (eventually) Niche weapons get a Buff, then Rifles will be UP (in comparison to other weapons) .And we all remember how it was when MD And Laser Rifles Ruled the day right?...yeah... Instead of RIFLE NERF THREADS, we need MD,SG,LR,PC,Etc... BUFF THreads... GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.


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