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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
534
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Posted - 2014.01.29 05:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range.
So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. |
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention
4198
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Posted - 2014.01.29 05:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you're doing all that damage needs to stay around the same, not higher. |
KGB Sleep
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
669
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Posted - 2014.01.29 05:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range.
So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles.
The gun is fine.
Seriously, it is fine.
Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse.
"Because beer, that's why."
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Sam Tektzby
Better Hide R Die
86
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Posted - 2014.01.29 05:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range.
So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles.
I dont know boyo. Like support i need something like this. I know from player responce there should be some tinking with it, but nerfing it in big time is not a way. I know its should be less powerfull on CQC (maybe implement bigger dispersion), but i still dont know. This weapon is (by my side of view) one of most succesfully made.
Support - Tactician/Support
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Nocturnal Soul
Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention
1779
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Posted - 2014.01.29 05:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
KGB Sleep wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range.
So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. The gun is fine. Seriously, it is fine. Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse. I will poop on your existence if this happens.
New born sAMARRi
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KGB Sleep
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
669
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Posted - 2014.01.29 05:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:KGB Sleep wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range.
So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. The gun is fine. Seriously, it is fine. Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse. I will poop on your existence if this happens.
That would take a very loose butthole sir. Let's hope it doesn't happen then for your sake.
"Because beer, that's why."
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HYENAKILLER X
AGGRESSIVE TYPE
516
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Posted - 2014.01.29 05:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
All the rifles are fine. Why complain about the rail rifle? Duvolles and boundless are easily just as good. Maybe not at the same ranges but I assure you of this: get into the desired range of the weapon and use it correctly and youll stop complaining about rails. Top guys using proto will always be unpleasant.
Please man up.
You are welcome for my leadership
*Proven Aggressive Type
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention
4201
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Posted - 2014.01.29 06:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:All the rifles are fine. Why complain about the rail rifle? Duvolles and boundless are easily just as good. Maybe not at the same ranges but I assure you of this: get into the desired range of the weapon and use it correctly and youll stop complaining about rails. Top guys using proto will always be unpleasant.
Please man up. loooool |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1243
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Posted - 2014.01.29 06:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:All the rifles are fine. Why complain about the rail rifle? Duvolles and boundless are easily just as good. Maybe not at the same ranges but I assure you of this: get into the desired range of the weapon and use it correctly and youll stop complaining about rails. Top guys using proto will always be unpleasant.
Please man up. What kind of sense does it make to use a gun that does the same damage at a longer range and still works as good closer? This isn't aboutthe player but the gun.
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
789
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Posted - 2014.01.29 06:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
All the rifles need a nerf |
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division Top Men.
610
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Posted - 2014.01.29 06:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nerf all the ar's, then nerf the RR again because CCP can't copy SIMPLE Sci-Fi range to damage ratios into the rail rifle.
Scr does it too.
Let's have a gun that's cool in CQC. Then one that's slightly worse in CQC but does 100 damage a burst! OOH OOH and then, let's have a laser weapon, and make it shoot AS FAST AS YOU CAN PULL. Did i mention it has yet farther range than the previous two?
OOOOOOOOHHHH AAND AND. Let's have a rapid fire sniper rifle that shoots SUPER PRECICELY, has no recoil until half the clip is empty, has double the range of the last 3, AND make it spit out the same Damage Per Second!? GENIOUS.
Under 28db
Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14)
I have a God, His name is Dakka.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention
4212
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Posted - 2014.01.29 07:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Nerf all the ar's, then nerf the RR again because CCP can't copy SIMPLE Sci-Fi range to damage ratios into the rail rifle.
Scr does it too.
Let's have a gun that's cool in CQC. Then one that's slightly worse in CQC but does 100 damage a burst! OOH OOH and then, let's have a laser weapon, and make it shoot AS FAST AS YOU CAN PULL. Did i mention it has yet farther range than the previous two?
OOOOOOOOHHHH AAND AND. Let's have a rapid fire sniper rifle that shoots SUPER PRECICELY, has no recoil until half the clip is empty, has double the range of the last 3, AND make it spit out the same Damage Per Second!? GENIOUS. I honestly think whoever it is that comes up with and is OK with these things at CCP needs to be CCP Blamed.
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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
539
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Posted - 2014.01.29 21:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Here is my logic.
As range decreases, DPS should increase. The rail rifle should be able to hit you for full damage the farthest out, but it pays for it if your enemy gets in close. The plasma rifle should have the highest DPS, but pays for it by having the lowest optimal/effective range. This provides the check and balances between the rifles themselves. The rail rifle isn't Godmode because it is outdpsed by the plasma rifle, and the plasma rifle isn't Godmode because it is outranged by the rail rifle. The other two rifles should fall somewhere in the middle. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
6066
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Posted - 2014.01.29 21:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:All the rifles are fine. Why complain about the rail rifle? Duvolles and boundless are easily just as good. Maybe not at the same ranges but I assure you of this: get into the desired range of the weapon and use it correctly and youll stop complaining about rails. Top guys using proto will always be unpleasant.
Please man up. Actually, Duvolles are worse in every way possible.
They have no use in 1.7 DUST.
Both the Rail Rifle and CR beat the AR in CQC EASILY while still having a fuckton more range. In addition to the benefits of having high alpha/burst that both of these have, while the AR is just bleh in the middle.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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CLONE117
planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate
625
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Posted - 2014.01.29 22:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
what i dont get is the breach assault rifle. its a great cqc weapon designed for close range.. yet caldari rail rifle was supposed to be the breach rifle.
slow its fire rate down to where its ungodly slow would make it suck horribly in cqc.
or we could just nerf the range and force it to be more within the range area of all the other guns in game. but idk how to fix or what would be the best option. hopefully some1 can come up with a better solution. that can balance it and take it out of the OP area.
the CR should be a relatively simple fix. just slow the refire of the burst. assault cr is just an smg from what ive seen. |
darkiller240
WarRavens League of Infamy
321
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Posted - 2014.01.29 22:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
simple decrease the damage in CQ and increase spool time to .35 sec there fixed it
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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CLONE117
planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate
625
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Posted - 2014.01.29 22:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
how well do u think an overheat for rr could work? |
Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
540
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Posted - 2014.01.29 22:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Overheat is unnecessary if we lower the DPS through ROF. It should be thehighest damage per shot of all the rifles, as it is now, but shoot very slow (relatively) which in this case it does not. Charging between each shot keeps it as a breach weapon, slows firing rate, which can be improved with skills if CCP so desires, and let's it dominate at range, but hinders it in CQC, where other rifles can spit out more raw DPS, albeit from a shorter range. |
D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1381
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Posted - 2014.01.29 22:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Overheat is unnecessary if we lower the DPS through ROF. It should be thehighest damage per shot of all the rifles, as it is now, but shoot very slow (relatively) which in this case it does not. Charging between each shot keeps it as a breach weapon, slows firing rate, which can be improved with skills if CCP so desires, and let's it dominate at range, but hinders it in CQC, where other rifles can spit out more raw DPS, albeit from a shorter range.
technically the scr rifle has the highest damage per shot.
still you have a good point. Use the same firing mechanics as the small rail turret, the RR should have a the same firing mechanice as all other rail tech in the game albeit faster.
The RR shouldn't be useless close range. But, it shouldn't be on par with a GAR or CR.
galente AR and CR are balanced verse each other because although the CR does more potential damage it is a burst fire weapon with an over-sampling cap (no turbo controlers for minmatar ...lol). the GAR has almost no recoil and the CR has the highest recoil among all the assault rilfes. therefore GAR = CR. balanced. The RR needs to be balanced against the Scr for longer range combat.
in this way in CQC the flow should be:
GAR = CR > RR = Scr
and at long range:
Scr = RR > GAR = CR
Again, neither the Scr rifle nor the RR need be utterly useless at close range but they should NEVER be more effective than a GAR or CR.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
540
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Posted - 2014.01.29 22:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote: technically the scr rifle has the highest damage per shot.
still you have a good point. Use the same firing mechanics as the small rail turret, the RR should have a the same firing mechanice as all other rail tech in the game albeit faster.
The RR shouldn't be useless close range. But, it shouldn't be on par with a GAR or CR.
galente AR and CR are balanced verse each other because although the CR does more potential damage it is a burst fire weapon with an over-sampling cap (no turbo controlers for minmatar ...lol). the GAR has almost no recoil and the CR has the highest recoil among all the assault rilfes. therefore GAR = CR. balanced. The RR needs to be balanced against the Scr for longer range combat.
in this way in CQC the flow should be:
GAR = CR > RR = Scr
and at long range:
Scr = RR > GAR = CR
Again, neither the Scr rifle nor the RR need be utterly useless at close range but they should NEVER be more effective than a GAR or CR.
In terms of raw DPS, the order should be PR>CR>SCR>RR
In terms of range, it should be RR>SCR>CR>PR
As you said, the RR shouldn't be useless, but neither should it be the best. If a PR gunner can outmaneuver a RR and get in the PR optimal range, the PR should have the definite advantage. |
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division Top Men.
617
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Posted - 2014.01.30 03:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
As an additional note for RR abuse- i ran my Min Assault today, mixed with Adv commando. I used assault CR and rs-90 cr combo. basic RR would (no joke) kill be before i could even empty half my Cr clip out on them, they stood perfectly still, and shot me. Next match i ran the same thing, but used my Bk-42. Kaalakiota's nearly outmatched me, but i won 50/50. Assault rails on the other hand- i sneak up on a CK.0 already without shields. I shoot CK.0. CK0 has stacked plates so he doesn't die easily, turns around, spews ARR all over the wall and kills me. This happened 5 times. Not just with CK.0's either. I've had this happen with the enemy being in a half wounded 600hp galscout, a starter frame with a ARR, a militia heavy with an ARR, and even a minmatar logi.
How can you defend a weapon that is so horribly broken that it wins fights for you EVEN WHEN THEIR VICTIM snuck up on them, attacks in numbers, AND uses super burst tactics(flux nade, follow with CR.)??????
Break their crutch. Snap it in half, burn it in a pit, then spray paint it chrome so you can say it's still a shiny new toy.
**** you caldari.
Under 28db
Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14)
I have a God, His name is Dakka.
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Stupid Blueberry
Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
80
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Posted - 2014.01.30 03:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
KGB Sleep wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range.
So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. The gun is fine. Seriously, it is fine. Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse.
When you see literally 90% of the player base using the same gun, something is wrong. |
Stupid Blueberry
Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
80
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Posted - 2014.01.30 03:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:As an additional note for RR abuse- i ran my Min Assault today, mixed with Adv commando. I used assault CR and rs-90 cr combo. basic RR would (no joke) kill be before i could even empty half my Cr clip out on them, they stood perfectly still, and shot me. Next match i ran the same thing, but used my Bk-42. Kaalakiota's nearly outmatched me, but i won 50/50. Assault rails on the other hand- i sneak up on a CK.0 already without shields. I shoot CK.0. CK0 has stacked plates so he doesn't die easily, turns around, spews ARR all over the wall and kills me. This happened 5 times. Not just with CK.0's either. I've had this happen with the enemy being in a half wounded 600hp galscout, a starter frame with a ARR, a militia heavy with an ARR, and even a minmatar logi.
How can you defend a weapon that is so horribly broken that it wins fights for you EVEN WHEN THEIR VICTIM snuck up on them, attacks in numbers, AND uses super burst tactics(flux nade, follow with CR.)??????
Break their crutch. Snap it in half, burn it in a pit, then spray paint it chrome so you can say it's still a shiny new toy.
**** you caldari.
We didn't do it, CCP did.
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shady merc
RisingSuns Public Disorder.
39
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Posted - 2014.01.30 03:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
The RR should be as effective in close range as the AR is at the RR effective range. Having the longest range of the 4 rifles it should scream at you to use a sidearm in CQC to be useful. Just like the AR should scream at you to use one of the longer range sidearms coming out |
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
702
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Posted - 2014.01.30 03:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
The RR qq is getting pretty crazy. My opinion is well known on the subject - i'm not a fan of nerfing much of anything right now. However, I would like to see a couple stat graphs from CCP that illustrate the following data points:
1) Number of kills (raw and percentage) by all infantry weapons since 1.7
2) Kills by engagement range since 1.7...break it into roughly Close, Short, Mid, Long, Extreme
3) Total average kill range of all weapons combined and average kill range per weapon.
Most of us are going on subjective observations and using math back and forth with varying degrees of accuracy and effect. I think if we get CCP to show us actual data that would inform all of our thoughts on this. Using the data points above you can see how things are truly shaking out amongst all infantry weapons (excluding AV launchers). Most of the forum consists of vertarn players and I think this shades the observations a bit. When an experienced player picks up a new weapon and even just skills it to Lvl I they can be effective with it but its a different story for lower SP players...the RR and SCR particularly are not kind to newer players.
That said, my subjective opinon (couldn't resist ) is that the use of the four rifles are a bit more evenly mixed than folks think AND that most engagements happen in ranges where all the rifles can compete.
"Third star to the right...straight ahead 'till morning."
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Soldiersaint
Deepspace Digital
712
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Posted - 2014.01.30 04:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range.
So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. Caldari weapons are high in range AND damage. learn the lore. |
Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
1010
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Posted - 2014.01.30 04:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
RR needs a CQC nerf. AR needs a RoF buff but I won't digress.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
546
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Posted - 2014.01.30 04:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range.
So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. Caldari weapons are high in range AND damage. learn the lore. HIGH in damage, LOW in DPS. Learn the lore. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1263
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Posted - 2014.01.30 04:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range.
So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. Caldari weapons are high in range AND damage. learn the lore. excuse me but you spelled amarr wrong.
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
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KGB Sleep
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
671
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Posted - 2014.01.30 04:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Stupid Blueberry wrote:KGB Sleep wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range.
So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. The gun is fine. Seriously, it is fine. Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse. When you see literally 90% of the player base using the same gun, something is wrong.
HERE is a recent Dust video.
There are a variety of weapons being used if you monitor the kill feed, it is hardly RR514.
Of course the Rail Rifle is going to be common, people had to use the same weapons for over a year. Everyone wanted the new shiny guns, dropped their old ones,and now some people are highly proficient. I find more combat rifles and ARs out there than Rails personally.
"Because beer, that's why."
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