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Rail Rifle - what it should be

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Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 534	Posted - 2014.01.29 05:27:00 - [1] - Quote IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4198	Posted - 2014.01.29 05:29:00 - [2] - Quote If you're doing all that damage needs to stay around the same, not higher.
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 669	Posted - 2014.01.29 05:32:00 - [3] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. The gun is fine. Seriously, it is fine. Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse. "Because beer, that's why."
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 86	Posted - 2014.01.29 05:33:00 - [4] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. I dont know boyo. Like support i need something like this. I know from player responce there should be some tinking with it, but nerfing it in big time is not a way. I know its should be less powerfull on CQC (maybe implement bigger dispersion), but i still dont know. This weapon is (by my side of view) one of most succesfully made. Support - Tactician/Support
Nocturnal Soul Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1779	Posted - 2014.01.29 05:43:00 - [5] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. The gun is fine. Seriously, it is fine. Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse. I will poop on your existence if this happens. New born sAMARRi
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 669	Posted - 2014.01.29 05:52:00 - [6] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: KGB Sleep wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. The gun is fine. Seriously, it is fine. Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse. I will poop on your existence if this happens. That would take a very loose butthole sir. Let's hope it doesn't happen then for your sake. "Because beer, that's why."
HYENAKILLER X AGGRESSIVE TYPE 516	Posted - 2014.01.29 05:57:00 - [7] - Quote All the rifles are fine. Why complain about the rail rifle? Duvolles and boundless are easily just as good. Maybe not at the same ranges but I assure you of this: get into the desired range of the weapon and use it correctly and youll stop complaining about rails. Top guys using proto will always be unpleasant. Please man up. You are welcome for my leadership *Proven Aggressive Type
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4201	Posted - 2014.01.29 06:01:00 - [8] - Quote HYENAKILLER X wrote: All the rifles are fine. Why complain about the rail rifle? Duvolles and boundless are easily just as good. Maybe not at the same ranges but I assure you of this: get into the desired range of the weapon and use it correctly and youll stop complaining about rails. Top guys using proto will always be unpleasant. Please man up. loooool
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1243	Posted - 2014.01.29 06:01:00 - [9] - Quote HYENAKILLER X wrote: All the rifles are fine. Why complain about the rail rifle? Duvolles and boundless are easily just as good. Maybe not at the same ranges but I assure you of this: get into the desired range of the weapon and use it correctly and youll stop complaining about rails. Top guys using proto will always be unpleasant. Please man up. What kind of sense does it make to use a gun that does the same damage at a longer range and still works as good closer? This isn't aboutthe player but the gun. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 789	Posted - 2014.01.29 06:24:00 - [10] - Quote All the rifles need a nerf

Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 610	Posted - 2014.01.29 06:54:00 - [11] - Quote Nerf all the ar's, then nerf the RR again because CCP can't copy SIMPLE Sci-Fi range to damage ratios into the rail rifle. Scr does it too. Let's have a gun that's cool in CQC. Then one that's slightly worse in CQC but does 100 damage a burst! OOH OOH and then, let's have a laser weapon, and make it shoot AS FAST AS YOU CAN PULL. Did i mention it has yet farther range than the previous two? OOOOOOOOHHHH AAND AND. Let's have a rapid fire sniper rifle that shoots SUPER PRECICELY, has no recoil until half the clip is empty, has double the range of the last 3, AND make it spit out the same Damage Per Second!? GENIOUS. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4212	Posted - 2014.01.29 07:11:00 - [12] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Nerf all the ar's, then nerf the RR again because CCP can't copy SIMPLE Sci-Fi range to damage ratios into the rail rifle. Scr does it too. Let's have a gun that's cool in CQC. Then one that's slightly worse in CQC but does 100 damage a burst! OOH OOH and then, let's have a laser weapon, and make it shoot AS FAST AS YOU CAN PULL. Did i mention it has yet farther range than the previous two? OOOOOOOOHHHH AAND AND. Let's have a rapid fire sniper rifle that shoots SUPER PRECICELY, has no recoil until half the clip is empty, has double the range of the last 3, AND make it spit out the same Damage Per Second!? GENIOUS. I honestly think whoever it is that comes up with and is OK with these things at CCP needs to be CCP Blamed.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 539	Posted - 2014.01.29 21:28:00 - [13] - Quote Here is my logic. As range decreases, DPS should increase. The rail rifle should be able to hit you for full damage the farthest out, but it pays for it if your enemy gets in close. The plasma rifle should have the highest DPS, but pays for it by having the lowest optimal/effective range. This provides the check and balances between the rifles themselves. The rail rifle isn't Godmode because it is outdpsed by the plasma rifle, and the plasma rifle isn't Godmode because it is outranged by the rail rifle. The other two rifles should fall somewhere in the middle.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6066	Posted - 2014.01.29 21:44:00 - [14] - Quote HYENAKILLER X wrote: All the rifles are fine. Why complain about the rail rifle? Duvolles and boundless are easily just as good. Maybe not at the same ranges but I assure you of this: get into the desired range of the weapon and use it correctly and youll stop complaining about rails. Top guys using proto will always be unpleasant. Please man up. Actually, Duvolles are worse in every way possible. They have no use in 1.7 DUST. Both the Rail Rifle and CR beat the AR in CQC EASILY while still having a fuckton more range. In addition to the benefits of having high alpha/burst that both of these have, while the AR is just bleh in the middle. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate 625	Posted - 2014.01.29 22:16:00 - [15] - Quote what i dont get is the breach assault rifle. its a great cqc weapon designed for close range.. yet caldari rail rifle was supposed to be the breach rifle. slow its fire rate down to where its ungodly slow would make it suck horribly in cqc. or we could just nerf the range and force it to be more within the range area of all the other guns in game. but idk how to fix or what would be the best option. hopefully some1 can come up with a better solution. that can balance it and take it out of the OP area. the CR should be a relatively simple fix. just slow the refire of the burst. assault cr is just an smg from what ive seen.
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 321	Posted - 2014.01.29 22:24:00 - [16] - Quote simple decrease the damage in CQ and increase spool time to .35 sec there fixed it "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate 625	Posted - 2014.01.29 22:25:00 - [17] - Quote how well do u think an overheat for rr could work?
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 540	Posted - 2014.01.29 22:46:00 - [18] - Quote Overheat is unnecessary if we lower the DPS through ROF. It should be thehighest damage per shot of all the rifles, as it is now, but shoot very slow (relatively) which in this case it does not. Charging between each shot keeps it as a breach weapon, slows firing rate, which can be improved with skills if CCP so desires, and let's it dominate at range, but hinders it in CQC, where other rifles can spit out more raw DPS, albeit from a shorter range.
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1381	Posted - 2014.01.29 22:54:00 - [19] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Overheat is unnecessary if we lower the DPS through ROF. It should be thehighest damage per shot of all the rifles, as it is now, but shoot very slow (relatively) which in this case it does not. Charging between each shot keeps it as a breach weapon, slows firing rate, which can be improved with skills if CCP so desires, and let's it dominate at range, but hinders it in CQC, where other rifles can spit out more raw DPS, albeit from a shorter range. technically the scr rifle has the highest damage per shot. still you have a good point. Use the same firing mechanics as the small rail turret, the RR should have a the same firing mechanice as all other rail tech in the game albeit faster. The RR shouldn't be useless close range. But, it shouldn't be on par with a GAR or CR. galente AR and CR are balanced verse each other because although the CR does more potential damage it is a burst fire weapon with an over-sampling cap (no turbo controlers for minmatar ...lol). the GAR has almost no recoil and the CR has the highest recoil among all the assault rilfes. therefore GAR = CR. balanced. The RR needs to be balanced against the Scr for longer range combat. in this way in CQC the flow should be: GAR = CR > RR = Scr and at long range: Scr = RR > GAR = CR Again, neither the Scr rifle nor the RR need be utterly useless at close range but they should NEVER be more effective than a GAR or CR. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 540	Posted - 2014.01.29 22:58:00 - [20] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: technically the scr rifle has the highest damage per shot. still you have a good point. Use the same firing mechanics as the small rail turret, the RR should have a the same firing mechanice as all other rail tech in the game albeit faster. The RR shouldn't be useless close range. But, it shouldn't be on par with a GAR or CR. galente AR and CR are balanced verse each other because although the CR does more potential damage it is a burst fire weapon with an over-sampling cap (no turbo controlers for minmatar ...lol). the GAR has almost no recoil and the CR has the highest recoil among all the assault rilfes. therefore GAR = CR. balanced. The RR needs to be balanced against the Scr for longer range combat. in this way in CQC the flow should be: GAR = CR > RR = Scr and at long range: Scr = RR > GAR = CR Again, neither the Scr rifle nor the RR need be utterly useless at close range but they should NEVER be more effective than a GAR or CR. In terms of raw DPS, the order should be PR>CR>SCR>RR In terms of range, it should be RR>SCR>CR>PR As you said, the RR shouldn't be useless, but neither should it be the best. If a PR gunner can outmaneuver a RR and get in the PR optimal range, the PR should have the definite advantage.

Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 617	Posted - 2014.01.30 03:10:00 - [21] - Quote As an additional note for RR abuse- i ran my Min Assault today, mixed with Adv commando. I used assault CR and rs-90 cr combo. basic RR would (no joke) kill be before i could even empty half my Cr clip out on them, they stood perfectly still, and shot me. Next match i ran the same thing, but used my Bk-42. Kaalakiota's nearly outmatched me, but i won 50/50. Assault rails on the other hand- i sneak up on a CK.0 already without shields. I shoot CK.0. CK0 has stacked plates so he doesn't die easily, turns around, spews ARR all over the wall and kills me. This happened 5 times. Not just with CK.0's either. I've had this happen with the enemy being in a half wounded 600hp galscout, a starter frame with a ARR, a militia heavy with an ARR, and even a minmatar logi. How can you defend a weapon that is so horribly broken that it wins fights for you EVEN WHEN THEIR VICTIM snuck up on them, attacks in numbers, AND uses super burst tactics(flux nade, follow with CR.)?????? Break their crutch. Snap it in half, burn it in a pit, then spray paint it chrome so you can say it's still a shiny new toy. **** you caldari. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.
Stupid Blueberry Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 80	Posted - 2014.01.30 03:16:00 - [22] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. The gun is fine. Seriously, it is fine. Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse. When you see literally 90% of the player base using the same gun, something is wrong.
Stupid Blueberry Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 80	Posted - 2014.01.30 03:18:00 - [23] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: As an additional note for RR abuse- i ran my Min Assault today, mixed with Adv commando. I used assault CR and rs-90 cr combo. basic RR would (no joke) kill be before i could even empty half my Cr clip out on them, they stood perfectly still, and shot me. Next match i ran the same thing, but used my Bk-42. Kaalakiota's nearly outmatched me, but i won 50/50. Assault rails on the other hand- i sneak up on a CK.0 already without shields. I shoot CK.0. CK0 has stacked plates so he doesn't die easily, turns around, spews ARR all over the wall and kills me. This happened 5 times. Not just with CK.0's either. I've had this happen with the enemy being in a half wounded 600hp galscout, a starter frame with a ARR, a militia heavy with an ARR, and even a minmatar logi. How can you defend a weapon that is so horribly broken that it wins fights for you EVEN WHEN THEIR VICTIM snuck up on them, attacks in numbers, AND uses super burst tactics(flux nade, follow with CR.)?????? Break their crutch. Snap it in half, burn it in a pit, then spray paint it chrome so you can say it's still a shiny new toy. **** you caldari. We didn't do it, CCP did.
shady merc RisingSuns Public Disorder. 39	Posted - 2014.01.30 03:29:00 - [24] - Quote The RR should be as effective in close range as the AR is at the RR effective range. Having the longest range of the 4 rifles it should scream at you to use a sidearm in CQC to be useful. Just like the AR should scream at you to use one of the longer range sidearms coming out
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 702	Posted - 2014.01.30 03:55:00 - [25] - Quote The RR qq is getting pretty crazy. My opinion is well known on the subject - i'm not a fan of nerfing much of anything right now. However, I would like to see a couple stat graphs from CCP that illustrate the following data points: 1) Number of kills (raw and percentage) by all infantry weapons since 1.7 2) Kills by engagement range since 1.7...break it into roughly Close, Short, Mid, Long, Extreme 3) Total average kill range of all weapons combined and average kill range per weapon. Most of us are going on subjective observations and using math back and forth with varying degrees of accuracy and effect. I think if we get CCP to show us actual data that would inform all of our thoughts on this. Using the data points above you can see how things are truly shaking out amongst all infantry weapons (excluding AV launchers). Most of the forum consists of vertarn players and I think this shades the observations a bit. When an experienced player picks up a new weapon and even just skills it to Lvl I they can be effective with it but its a different story for lower SP players...the RR and SCR particularly are not kind to newer players. That said, my subjective opinon (couldn't resist ) is that the use of the four rifles are a bit more evenly mixed than folks think AND that most engagements happen in ranges where all the rifles can compete. "Third star to the right...straight ahead 'till morning."
Soldiersaint Deepspace Digital 712	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:01:00 - [26] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. Caldari weapons are high in range AND damage. learn the lore.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1010	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:16:00 - [27] - Quote RR needs a CQC nerf. AR needs a RoF buff but I won't digress. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 546	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:18:00 - [28] - Quote Soldiersaint wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. Caldari weapons are high in range AND damage. learn the lore. HIGH in damage, LOW in DPS. Learn the lore.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1263	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:21:00 - [29] - Quote Soldiersaint wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. Caldari weapons are high in range AND damage. learn the lore. excuse me but you spelled amarr wrong. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 671	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:25:00 - [30] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: KGB Sleep wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. The gun is fine. Seriously, it is fine. Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse. When you see literally 90% of the player base using the same gun, something is wrong. HERE is a recent Dust video. There are a variety of weapons being used if you monitor the kill feed, it is hardly RR514. Of course the Rail Rifle is going to be common, people had to use the same weapons for over a year. Everyone wanted the new shiny guns, dropped their old ones,and now some people are highly proficient. I find more combat rifles and ARs out there than Rails personally. "Because beer, that's why."

Squagga The State Protectorate 90	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:51:00 - [31] - Quote The rifle isn't the problem. I just got owned by a Viziam scarmbler rifle, ya wanna know what I did? I sent em a mail saying much props on the use of that weapon! You need to stop blaming the game for your short comings. If you're getting owned by a weapon. You need to consider whose hands it is in and what you could do better than crying for CCP to "make" you a better gunner Reloading, the silent killer.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 547	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:55:00 - [32] - Quote I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this.
Squagga The State Protectorate 90	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:58:00 - [33] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. Whose side are you on!?! Reloading, the silent killer.
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 306	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:58:00 - [34] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. So you want the Rail Rifle to be a longer range less viable Scrambler Rifle?
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 673	Posted - 2014.01.30 05:00:00 - [35] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. By this logic we should get to lock on targets too. "Because beer, that's why."
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1263	Posted - 2014.01.30 05:14:00 - [36] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. By this logic we should get to lock on targets too. It's called aim assist. I really hope you're purposefully lying to protect the Rr "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6073	Posted - 2014.01.30 05:21:00 - [37] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. By this logic we should get to lock on targets too. By your logic we would be playing EVE right now. He just wants the technology to do what it does in the original game, not emulate the game 1:1. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Callidus Vanus Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 214	Posted - 2014.01.30 05:32:00 - [38] - Quote Some people seem to confuse a gun being op with people having high proficiency and skill using it. If you are reading this then you are on the forums, leave immediately to retain your enjoyment of Dust 514.
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 306	Posted - 2014.01.30 05:37:00 - [39] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: As an additional note for RR abuse- i ran my Min Assault today, mixed with Adv commando. I used assault CR and rs-90 cr combo. basic RR would (no joke) kill be before i could even empty half my Cr clip out on them, they stood perfectly still, and shot me. Next match i ran the same thing, but used my Bk-42. Kaalakiota's nearly outmatched me, but i won 50/50. Assault rails on the other hand- i sneak up on a CK.0 already without shields. I shoot CK.0. CK0 has stacked plates so he doesn't die easily, turns around, spews ARR all over the wall and kills me. This happened 5 times. Not just with CK.0's either. I've had this happen with the enemy being in a half wounded 600hp galscout, a starter frame with a ARR, a militia heavy with an ARR, and even a minmatar logi. How can you defend a weapon that is so horribly broken that it wins fights for you EVEN WHEN THEIR VICTIM snuck up on them, attacks in numbers, AND uses super burst tactics(flux nade, follow with CR.)?????? Break their crutch. Snap it in half, burn it in a pit, then spray paint it chrome so you can say it's still a shiny new toy. **** you caldari. You must not be very good. If your target is standing still and you can't kill them it doesn't matter what weapon they're using, you're doing something wrong.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1264	Posted - 2014.01.30 05:41:00 - [40] - Quote Callidus Vanus wrote: Some people seem to confuse a gun being op with people having high proficiency and skill using it. Take a look at the,stats of,the Rr and Ar, then look at the ranges, if you still don't see the issue there's no helping you. Edit:on a phon, not fixing those typos. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy

Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 550	Posted - 2014.01.30 07:58:00 - [41] - Quote m twiggz wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. So you want the Rail Rifle to be a longer range less viable Scrambler Rifle? Exactly. You should deal high damage per round. But those rounds shoot relatively slowly. Since it's Caldari tech, they use their high mobility and shields to keep out of range of enemy weapons while dealing hard hitting rounds of their own. The weakness being the long gap between shots (relative to the other rifles) In this way, the Rail Rifle excels at ranged combat, but isn't ideal for up close and personal, where the CR/PR should shine. The CR/PR pay for their higher dps by having far less range, in the PR's case having half the range. This makes RR users keep their enemy inside the RR optimal but outside PR optimal, and PR users close the distance where their PR can outDPS the RR. Thus the different styles of gameplay.
N7 Operative Anthony WarRavens League of Infamy 20	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:13:00 - [42] - Quote RR is fine the way it is.
N7 Operative Anthony WarRavens League of Infamy 20	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:20:00 - [43] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. EVE , not dust 514.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 550	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:26:00 - [44] - Quote N7 Operative Anthony wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. EVE , not dust 514. Dust 514, which is set in New Eden, the same universe as Eve, therefore it should follow New Eden rules, just as Eve does.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 555	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:49:00 - [45] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. The gun is fine. Seriously, it is fine. Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse. Hmm the CR does not benefit that much from modded controlers, as you can surpass a rof of 400 as each burst lasts 0.15 sec...
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 599	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:52:00 - [46] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Since it's Caldari tech, they use their high mobility and shields to keep out of range of enemy weapons Lulz, caldari have been the least mobile sobs in history. Also ScR is hyper OP vs shields. Just naw son RR is fine lets see an EM nerf to the ScR to balance it up.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 553	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:54:00 - [47] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Lulz, caldari have been the least mobile sobs in history. You misspelled Amarr.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 599	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:56:00 - [48] - Quote you got some New Eden fact finding missions infront of you bub.
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 677	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:57:00 - [49] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: KGB Sleep wrote: The gun is fine. Seriously, it is fine. Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse. Hmm the CR does not benefit that much from modded controlers, as you can surpass a rof of 400 as each burst lasts 0.15 sec... That's true. I should have put "AR" for the no recoil while ADS instead. "Because beer, that's why."
rpastry Carbon 7 CRONOS. 115	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:59:00 - [50] - Quote RR already has its CQC nerf. 0.2 sec is a LONG time with current TTK. anyone using a CR/AR/SCR has the drop on you, and anyone who uses cover properly can seriously mess up a RR users day. ~Incidentally in EvE there's no railgun precharge time so if you want to 'follow the lore' then take it out. .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-a+¬a¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça++ a¦ê+ä-£a¦êa++a+¬a¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë

Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 555	Posted - 2014.01.30 09:06:00 - [51] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Overheat is unnecessary if we lower the DPS through ROF. It should be thehighest damage per shot of all the rifles, as it is now, but shoot very slow (relatively) which in this case it does not. Charging between each shot keeps it as a breach weapon, slows firing rate, which can be improved with skills if CCP so desires, and let's it dominate at range, but hinders it in CQC, where other rifles can spit out more raw DPS, albeit from a shorter range. technically the scr rifle has the highest damage per shot. still you have a good point. Use the same firing mechanics as the small rail turret, the RR should have a the same firing mechanice as all other rail tech in the game albeit faster. The RR shouldn't be useless close range. But, it shouldn't be on par with a GAR or CR. galente AR and CR are balanced verse each other because although the CR does more potential damage it is a burst fire weapon with an over-sampling cap (no turbo controlers for minmatar ...lol). the GAR has almost no recoil and the CR has the highest recoil among all the assault rilfes. therefore GAR = CR. balanced. The RR needs to be balanced against the Scr for longer range combat. in this way in CQC the flow should be: GAR = CR > RR = Scr and at long range: Scr = RR > GAR = CR Again, neither the Scr rifle nor the RR need be utterly useless at close range but they should NEVER be more effective than a GAR or CR. I don't think the CR ans AR are on par the CR makes no sense if you compare the Burst Ar and Ar both have roughly the same DPS while the Burst AR provides greater Range and Accuracy as tradeoff for these benefits its a burst weapon. Gek 11% more damge per shot than Burst AR and Burst AR more Rof than the GEK = equal dps. Now look at the CR the CR has ~50% more damage (= 50% more dps.) over the ACR AND greater range AND better accuracy (not sure aout this one) . So here is something broken. And the same is true for RR and ARR...
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 555	Posted - 2014.01.30 09:11:00 - [52] - Quote rpastry wrote: RR already has its CQC nerf. 0.2 sec is a LONG time with current TTK. anyone using a CR/AR/SCR has the drop on you, and anyone who uses cover properly can seriously mess up a RR users day. ~Incidentally in EvE there's no railgun precharge time so if you want to 'follow the lore' then take it out. Thats less tha human reaction time and barely noticeable. The charge will other rifles only give an advantage if they meet exactly the same time and start shooting exactly the same moment (this barely ever happens) when the RR user don't precharge. And even then the RR has an advatage over the AR because of tighter hipfire. Balancing OP stats by easy to bypass gaming mechanics is stupid.
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 677	Posted - 2014.01.30 09:31:00 - [53] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Dust 514, which is set in New Eden, the same universe as Eve, therefore it should follow New Eden rules, just as Eve does. They're in the same universe but unfortunately different genres. Besides, in the case of rail tech your desired effects are already represented in the Sniper rifle and Forge gun. The Devs did an excellent job in creating a frontline battle rifle that fits the tech yet is effective in an FPS. You can't possible think that they didn't consider the things you are suggesting when they spent months on the new weapons. I suppose they could add a sound effect in between shots to simulate the charge up you want but why would the weapon need to charge again when initially activated? This is what they deemed best and it has plenty of drawbacks that Eve doesn't have to deal with like manually aiming maintaining fire at small targets in long range or slow RoF in a low TTK environment. To slow anything down would also ruin the rifle's long range performance and allow people to get away too easily. The new weapons are both perfect imo and a lot of other weapons are still UP. What you are going to accomplish with nerf / corrections threads are another rifle to join the broken heap of stuff people "fixed" that no one wants to use like the Flaylock, the Laser (making a comeback i know), the TAC, the Gallente Breach, and the AR according to some players. You know the QQ over the AR was centered on balancing it to reflect Eve techlore? Something about Gallente plasma dissipation inhibiting range and reducing the AR's "OP in cqc DPS." So, when everything was "balanced" at the introduction of these new rifles people are now screaming to have exactly what they were trying to nerf because they feel they can't compete even though they were given balanced extensions to range. "Because beer, that's why."
Jacques Cayton II Providence Guard Templis CALSF 563	Posted - 2014.01.30 09:41:00 - [54] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: HYENAKILLER X wrote: All the rifles are fine. Why complain about the rail rifle? Duvolles and boundless are easily just as good. Maybe not at the same ranges but I assure you of this: get into the desired range of the weapon and use it correctly and youll stop complaining about rails. Top guys using proto will always be unpleasant. Please man up. What kind of sense does it make to use a gun that does the same damage at a longer range and still works as good closer? This isn't aboutthe player but the gun. The fact a duvolle and boundless do It better We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Omareth Nasadra The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 275	Posted - 2014.01.30 09:42:00 - [55] - Quote CR prof V user here, i only use the standard burst version, i do think it's a little OP, but RR user plz ackowledge that your weapon is also a thad op, balance is not far between every rifle variant, but i do think they made our new weapon just a bit over the edge Minmatar, In rust we trust!!! Omareth Nasadra/Erynyes
Jacques Cayton II Providence Guard Templis CALSF 563	Posted - 2014.01.30 09:44:00 - [56] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: rpastry wrote: RR already has its CQC nerf. 0.2 sec is a LONG time with current TTK. anyone using a CR/AR/SCR has the drop on you, and anyone who uses cover properly can seriously mess up a RR users day. ~Incidentally in EvE there's no railgun precharge time so if you want to 'follow the lore' then take it out. Thats less tha human reaction time and barely noticeable. The charge will other rifles only give an advantage if they meet exactly the same time and start shooting exactly the same moment (this barely ever happens) when the RR user don't precharge. And even then the RR has an advatage over the AR because of tighter hipfire. Balancing OP stats by easy to bypass gaming mechanics is stupid. Add .25 secs to the human reaction dunce We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Squagga The State Protectorate 93	Posted - 2014.01.30 11:51:00 - [57] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: As an additional note for RR abuse- i ran my Min Assault today, mixed with Adv commando. I used assault CR and rs-90 cr combo. basic RR would (no joke) kill be before i could even empty half my Cr clip out on them, they stood perfectly still, and shot me. Next match i ran the same thing, but used my Bk-42. Kaalakiota's nearly outmatched me, but i won 50/50. Assault rails on the other hand- i sneak up on a CK.0 already without shields. I shoot CK.0. CK0 has stacked plates so he doesn't die easily, turns around, spews ARR all over the wall and kills me. This happened 5 times. Not just with CK.0's either. I've had this happen with the enemy being in a half wounded 600hp galscout, a starter frame with a ARR, a militia heavy with an ARR, and even a minmatar logi. How can you defend a weapon that is so horribly broken that it wins fights for you EVEN WHEN THEIR VICTIM snuck up on them, attacks in numbers, AND uses super burst tactics(flux nade, follow with CR.)?????? Break their crutch. Snap it in half, burn it in a pit, then spray paint it chrome so you can say it's still a shiny new toy. **** you caldari. The Caldari people aren't a large population, but we fight as though we are Reloading, the silent killer.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1778	Posted - 2014.01.30 12:01:00 - [58] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. So basically you want to buff the damage but make it take longer to tap Rd to have it ready to fire? Nice stealth buff attempt. It's RoF should be reduced while keeping it's high Alpha damage. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1266	Posted - 2014.01.30 12:32:00 - [59] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Obodiah Garro wrote: Lulz, caldari have been the least mobile sobs in history. You misspelled Amarr. Actually, both are pretty closely bricked. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1388	Posted - 2014.01.30 15:03:00 - [60] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: D legendary hero wrote: technically the scr rifle has the highest damage per shot. still you have a good point. Use the same firing mechanics as the small rail turret, the RR should have a the same firing mechanice as all other rail tech in the game albeit faster. The RR shouldn't be useless close range. But, it shouldn't be on par with a GAR or CR. galente AR and CR are balanced verse each other because although the CR does more potential damage it is a burst fire weapon with an over-sampling cap (no turbo controlers for minmatar ...lol). the GAR has almost no recoil and the CR has the highest recoil among all the assault rilfes. therefore GAR = CR. balanced. The RR needs to be balanced against the Scr for longer range combat. in this way in CQC the flow should be: GAR = CR > RR = Scr and at long range: Scr = RR > GAR = CR Again, neither the Scr rifle nor the RR need be utterly useless at close range but they should NEVER be more effective than a GAR or CR. In terms of raw DPS, the order should be PR>CR>SCR>RR In terms of range, it should be RR>SCR>CR>PR As you said, the RR shouldn't be useless, but neither should it be the best. If a PR gunner can outmaneuver a RR and get in the PR optimal range, the PR should have the definite advantage. This is a good point. The only reason why I said the CR should have the highest dps (or highest potential) is because it is a burst fire weapon with tons of recoil. the PR has virtually no Recoil and is fully automatic. the PR actually has less damage fall off than the CR as well, so making it more powerful than the combat will effectively nerf the CR. lol When you think about it just about everything minmatar in this game has been nerfed either directly or indirectly. the dropsuits, the weapons. Once the caldari pistol and SMG come out the minmatar SMG will be indreictly nerfed... the flaylock was already nerfed. If the PR becomes better than the CR then the WHOLE minmatar race will be effectively nerfed, and I will be asking for a complete respec into caldari who seem to get consistent buffs....lol Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça

Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 556	Posted - 2014.01.30 16:57:00 - [61] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: This is a good point. The only reason why I said the CR should have the highest dps (or highest potential) is because it is a burst fire weapon with tons of recoil. the PR has virtually no Recoil and is fully automatic. the PR actually has less damage fall off than the CR as well, so making it more powerful than the combat will effectively nerf the CR. lol When you think about it just about everything minmatar in this game has been nerfed either directly or indirectly. the dropsuits, the weapons. Once the caldari pistol and SMG come out the minmatar SMG will be indreictly nerfed... the flaylock was already nerfed. If the PR becomes better than the CR then the WHOLE minmatar race will be effectively nerfed, and I will be asking for a complete respec into caldari who seem to get consistent buffs....lol Good point. The PR should have the highest raw DPS, but dispersion and recoil should prevent application outside of the intended range. I think dispersion should be set, and aiming should only decrease recoil, not dispersion and recoil. This let's the PR have high DPS, but it cannot ensure all of that DPS will hit unless it get's right up on the enemy, which is where it needs to be. CR should have about the same optimal as the PR, but much larger falloff, in order to apply its DPS from farther out than the PR. This is like autocannons in Eve, which have low optimals but very long falloff ranges, making a consistent dps increase as targets get closer and farther. Especially considering how much raw DPS it can spit out, this won't really hurt it too much, and dps can be adjusted as well if t does. I'm not concerned with numbers so much as the basic mechanics of the weapon.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 556	Posted - 2014.01.30 17:13:00 - [62] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Dust 514, which is set in New Eden, the same universe as Eve, therefore it should follow New Eden rules, just as Eve does. They're in the same universe but unfortunately different genres. Besides, in the case of rail tech your desired effects are already represented in the Sniper rifle and Forge gun. The Devs did an excellent job in creating a frontline battle rifle that fits the tech yet is effective in an FPS. You can't possible think that they didn't consider the things you are suggesting when they spent months on the new weapons. This is what they deemed best and it has plenty of drawbacks like maintaining fire at small targets in long range or slow RoF in a low TTK environment. To slow anything down further would also ruin the rifle's long range performance and allow people to get away too easily. The new weapons are both perfect imo and a lot of other weapons are still UP. What you are going to accomplish with nerf / corrections threads are another rifle to join the broken heap of stuff people "fixed" that no one wants to use like the Flaylock, the Laser (making a comeback i know), the TAC, the Gallente Breach, and the AR according to some players. I don't understand why you would want it to charge each shot after it is already activated. It is sort of doing that already with the pause between rounds and the weapon basically powers down when you release the trigger prompting another charge up. In essence, you would hold down the trigger, and it would charge each shot automatically. The reason for the lower DPS is because of it's range. If you have all the rifles putting out the same DPS, and one has a longer range, people will naturally gravitate to the one with longer range. The reason targets wont get away is the high damage per individual shot. Let's say you have a 2 second window to hit a target it moves into cover. For the sake of this discussion, let's assume we are within optimal range for the rifle in question. So you begin firing, and you move a little off target, and one round misses. For the PR, this isn't a big deal. it's spitting out rounds like no other, and simply moves back on target, not worrying about missing that small amount of damage from the missed round, because of how many of those rounds it can spit out to compensate. The RR (with my suggested changes) is in the same situation. begins firing, misses a round. That's a lot of potential applied DPS missed, because the RR is about alpha damage, not about high rates of fire, so even if he adjusts his aim back on target, he has lost twice the amount of damage he could have applied that the PR user could have. The PR only lost 37.4 damage. The RR user lost ~87 damage. Plus, the PR should be able to send more DPS down range. In this scenario, 2 seconds should be more than enough to ensure the target is dead. The RR would need every round to hit in order to ensure a kill within 2 seconds. That's what the RR gives up for its longer optimal range. Here's another example. I would have the RR kill someone in 4-5 shots, whereas the PR would take 10-12 shots to kill someone. But, the PR should spit out 10-12 shots faster than the RR can spit out 4-5. Thus, the PR is better at killing than the RR, but only if the PR can get within range. Numbers are to illustrate a point. I really don't want someone to die in 10-12 PR shots.
The-Errorist 495	Posted - 2014.01.30 23:34:00 - [63] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. What you are describing would be a tactical variant of the RR. The base RR just needs a RoF nerf so it won't have both a good DPS, basically the same as the assault rifle, and high alpha damage. This change would make only great at medium to long range like it's supposed to be, but not as good for CQC as it is now.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 557	Posted - 2014.01.31 01:19:00 - [64] - Quote Not a tactical variant. you hold down R1 and it charges up for you, as opposed you charging once and then firing til you let go. A tactical variant would charge, shoot, then require you to release R1 and press it again in order to charge the next shot. The breach style would simply charge - fire - charge - fire until you released the trigger.
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 123	Posted - 2014.01.31 01:25:00 - [65] - Quote Gaussie is fine how it is. Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator
N7 Operative Anthony WarRavens League of Infamy 21	Posted - 2014.01.31 16:34:00 - [66] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: N7 Operative Anthony wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. EVE , not dust 514. Dust 514, which is set in New Eden, the same universe as Eve, therefore it should follow New Eden rules, just as Eve does. Sure but their different games.
N7 Operative Anthony WarRavens League of Infamy 21	Posted - 2014.01.31 16:36:00 - [67] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. What you are describing would be a tactical variant of the RR. The base RR just needs a RoF nerf so it won't have both a good DPS, basically the same as the assault rifle, and high alpha damage. This change would make only great at medium to long range like it's supposed to be, but not as good for CQC as it is now. its garbage in cqc. Stop complaining. This gun is perfect.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1277	Posted - 2014.01.31 16:51:00 - [68] - Quote Whenever someone says it's garbage in cqc, they're talking about their own skill since it's the exact same thing as the rifle meant for cqc except with almost nonexistent tweaks. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy


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