DUST Search - Rail Rifle - what it should be

D legendary hero wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

Overheat is unnecessary if we lower the DPS through ROF. It should be thehighest damage per shot of all the rifles, as it is now, but shoot very slow (relatively) which in this case it does not. Charging between each shot keeps it as a breach weapon, slows firing rate, which can be improved with skills if CCP so desires, and let's it dominate at range, but hinders it in CQC, where other rifles can spit out more raw DPS, albeit from a shorter range.

technically the scr rifle has the highest damage per shot.

still you have a good point. Use the same firing mechanics as the small rail turret, the RR should have a the same firing mechanice as all other rail tech in the game albeit faster.

The RR shouldn't be useless close range. But, it shouldn't be on par with a GAR or CR.

galente AR and CR are balanced verse each other because although the CR does more potential damage it is a burst fire weapon with an over-sampling cap (no turbo controlers for minmatar ...lol). the GAR has almost no recoil and the CR has the highest recoil among all the assault rilfes. therefore GAR = CR. balanced. The RR needs to be balanced against the Scr for longer range combat.

in this way in CQC the flow should be:

GAR = CR > RR = Scr

and at long range:

Scr = RR > GAR = CR

Again, neither the Scr rifle nor the RR need be utterly useless at close range but they should NEVER be more effective than a GAR or CR.

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Squagga The State Protectorate 90	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:51:00 - [31] - Quote The rifle isn't the problem. I just got owned by a Viziam scarmbler rifle, ya wanna know what I did? I sent em a mail saying much props on the use of that weapon! You need to stop blaming the game for your short comings. If you're getting owned by a weapon. You need to consider whose hands it is in and what you could do better than crying for CCP to "make" you a better gunner Reloading, the silent killer.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 547	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:55:00 - [32] - Quote I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this.
Squagga The State Protectorate 90	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:58:00 - [33] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. Whose side are you on!?! Reloading, the silent killer.
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 306	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:58:00 - [34] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. So you want the Rail Rifle to be a longer range less viable Scrambler Rifle?
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 673	Posted - 2014.01.30 05:00:00 - [35] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. By this logic we should get to lock on targets too. "Because beer, that's why."
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1263	Posted - 2014.01.30 05:14:00 - [36] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. By this logic we should get to lock on targets too. It's called aim assist. I really hope you're purposefully lying to protect the Rr "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6073	Posted - 2014.01.30 05:21:00 - [37] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. By this logic we should get to lock on targets too. By your logic we would be playing EVE right now. He just wants the technology to do what it does in the original game, not emulate the game 1:1. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Callidus Vanus Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 214	Posted - 2014.01.30 05:32:00 - [38] - Quote Some people seem to confuse a gun being op with people having high proficiency and skill using it. If you are reading this then you are on the forums, leave immediately to retain your enjoyment of Dust 514.
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 306	Posted - 2014.01.30 05:37:00 - [39] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: As an additional note for RR abuse- i ran my Min Assault today, mixed with Adv commando. I used assault CR and rs-90 cr combo. basic RR would (no joke) kill be before i could even empty half my Cr clip out on them, they stood perfectly still, and shot me. Next match i ran the same thing, but used my Bk-42. Kaalakiota's nearly outmatched me, but i won 50/50. Assault rails on the other hand- i sneak up on a CK.0 already without shields. I shoot CK.0. CK0 has stacked plates so he doesn't die easily, turns around, spews ARR all over the wall and kills me. This happened 5 times. Not just with CK.0's either. I've had this happen with the enemy being in a half wounded 600hp galscout, a starter frame with a ARR, a militia heavy with an ARR, and even a minmatar logi. How can you defend a weapon that is so horribly broken that it wins fights for you EVEN WHEN THEIR VICTIM snuck up on them, attacks in numbers, AND uses super burst tactics(flux nade, follow with CR.)?????? Break their crutch. Snap it in half, burn it in a pit, then spray paint it chrome so you can say it's still a shiny new toy. **** you caldari. You must not be very good. If your target is standing still and you can't kill them it doesn't matter what weapon they're using, you're doing something wrong.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1264	Posted - 2014.01.30 05:41:00 - [40] - Quote Callidus Vanus wrote: Some people seem to confuse a gun being op with people having high proficiency and skill using it. Take a look at the,stats of,the Rr and Ar, then look at the ranges, if you still don't see the issue there's no helping you. Edit:on a phon, not fixing those typos. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy

Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 550	Posted - 2014.01.30 07:58:00 - [41] - Quote m twiggz wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. So you want the Rail Rifle to be a longer range less viable Scrambler Rifle? Exactly. You should deal high damage per round. But those rounds shoot relatively slowly. Since it's Caldari tech, they use their high mobility and shields to keep out of range of enemy weapons while dealing hard hitting rounds of their own. The weakness being the long gap between shots (relative to the other rifles) In this way, the Rail Rifle excels at ranged combat, but isn't ideal for up close and personal, where the CR/PR should shine. The CR/PR pay for their higher dps by having far less range, in the PR's case having half the range. This makes RR users keep their enemy inside the RR optimal but outside PR optimal, and PR users close the distance where their PR can outDPS the RR. Thus the different styles of gameplay.
N7 Operative Anthony WarRavens League of Infamy 20	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:13:00 - [42] - Quote RR is fine the way it is.
N7 Operative Anthony WarRavens League of Infamy 20	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:20:00 - [43] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. EVE , not dust 514.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 550	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:26:00 - [44] - Quote N7 Operative Anthony wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. EVE , not dust 514. Dust 514, which is set in New Eden, the same universe as Eve, therefore it should follow New Eden rules, just as Eve does.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 555	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:49:00 - [45] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. The gun is fine. Seriously, it is fine. Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse. Hmm the CR does not benefit that much from modded controlers, as you can surpass a rof of 400 as each burst lasts 0.15 sec...
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 599	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:52:00 - [46] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Since it's Caldari tech, they use their high mobility and shields to keep out of range of enemy weapons Lulz, caldari have been the least mobile sobs in history. Also ScR is hyper OP vs shields. Just naw son RR is fine lets see an EM nerf to the ScR to balance it up.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 553	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:54:00 - [47] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Lulz, caldari have been the least mobile sobs in history. You misspelled Amarr.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 599	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:56:00 - [48] - Quote you got some New Eden fact finding missions infront of you bub.
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 677	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:57:00 - [49] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: KGB Sleep wrote: The gun is fine. Seriously, it is fine. Focus on the CR and the SCR if you want to nerf. Put a charge up time on those to stop modded controller abuse. Hmm the CR does not benefit that much from modded controlers, as you can surpass a rof of 400 as each burst lasts 0.15 sec... That's true. I should have put "AR" for the no recoil while ADS instead. "Because beer, that's why."
rpastry Carbon 7 CRONOS. 115	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:59:00 - [50] - Quote RR already has its CQC nerf. 0.2 sec is a LONG time with current TTK. anyone using a CR/AR/SCR has the drop on you, and anyone who uses cover properly can seriously mess up a RR users day. ~Incidentally in EvE there's no railgun precharge time so if you want to 'follow the lore' then take it out. .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-a+¬a¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça++ a¦ê+ä-£a¦êa++a+¬a¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë

Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 555	Posted - 2014.01.30 09:06:00 - [51] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Overheat is unnecessary if we lower the DPS through ROF. It should be thehighest damage per shot of all the rifles, as it is now, but shoot very slow (relatively) which in this case it does not. Charging between each shot keeps it as a breach weapon, slows firing rate, which can be improved with skills if CCP so desires, and let's it dominate at range, but hinders it in CQC, where other rifles can spit out more raw DPS, albeit from a shorter range. technically the scr rifle has the highest damage per shot. still you have a good point. Use the same firing mechanics as the small rail turret, the RR should have a the same firing mechanice as all other rail tech in the game albeit faster. The RR shouldn't be useless close range. But, it shouldn't be on par with a GAR or CR. galente AR and CR are balanced verse each other because although the CR does more potential damage it is a burst fire weapon with an over-sampling cap (no turbo controlers for minmatar ...lol). the GAR has almost no recoil and the CR has the highest recoil among all the assault rilfes. therefore GAR = CR. balanced. The RR needs to be balanced against the Scr for longer range combat. in this way in CQC the flow should be: GAR = CR > RR = Scr and at long range: Scr = RR > GAR = CR Again, neither the Scr rifle nor the RR need be utterly useless at close range but they should NEVER be more effective than a GAR or CR. I don't think the CR ans AR are on par the CR makes no sense if you compare the Burst Ar and Ar both have roughly the same DPS while the Burst AR provides greater Range and Accuracy as tradeoff for these benefits its a burst weapon. Gek 11% more damge per shot than Burst AR and Burst AR more Rof than the GEK = equal dps. Now look at the CR the CR has ~50% more damage (= 50% more dps.) over the ACR AND greater range AND better accuracy (not sure aout this one) . So here is something broken. And the same is true for RR and ARR...
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 555	Posted - 2014.01.30 09:11:00 - [52] - Quote rpastry wrote: RR already has its CQC nerf. 0.2 sec is a LONG time with current TTK. anyone using a CR/AR/SCR has the drop on you, and anyone who uses cover properly can seriously mess up a RR users day. ~Incidentally in EvE there's no railgun precharge time so if you want to 'follow the lore' then take it out. Thats less tha human reaction time and barely noticeable. The charge will other rifles only give an advantage if they meet exactly the same time and start shooting exactly the same moment (this barely ever happens) when the RR user don't precharge. And even then the RR has an advatage over the AR because of tighter hipfire. Balancing OP stats by easy to bypass gaming mechanics is stupid.
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 677	Posted - 2014.01.30 09:31:00 - [53] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Dust 514, which is set in New Eden, the same universe as Eve, therefore it should follow New Eden rules, just as Eve does. They're in the same universe but unfortunately different genres. Besides, in the case of rail tech your desired effects are already represented in the Sniper rifle and Forge gun. The Devs did an excellent job in creating a frontline battle rifle that fits the tech yet is effective in an FPS. You can't possible think that they didn't consider the things you are suggesting when they spent months on the new weapons. I suppose they could add a sound effect in between shots to simulate the charge up you want but why would the weapon need to charge again when initially activated? This is what they deemed best and it has plenty of drawbacks that Eve doesn't have to deal with like manually aiming maintaining fire at small targets in long range or slow RoF in a low TTK environment. To slow anything down would also ruin the rifle's long range performance and allow people to get away too easily. The new weapons are both perfect imo and a lot of other weapons are still UP. What you are going to accomplish with nerf / corrections threads are another rifle to join the broken heap of stuff people "fixed" that no one wants to use like the Flaylock, the Laser (making a comeback i know), the TAC, the Gallente Breach, and the AR according to some players. You know the QQ over the AR was centered on balancing it to reflect Eve techlore? Something about Gallente plasma dissipation inhibiting range and reducing the AR's "OP in cqc DPS." So, when everything was "balanced" at the introduction of these new rifles people are now screaming to have exactly what they were trying to nerf because they feel they can't compete even though they were given balanced extensions to range. "Because beer, that's why."
Jacques Cayton II Providence Guard Templis CALSF 563	Posted - 2014.01.30 09:41:00 - [54] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: HYENAKILLER X wrote: All the rifles are fine. Why complain about the rail rifle? Duvolles and boundless are easily just as good. Maybe not at the same ranges but I assure you of this: get into the desired range of the weapon and use it correctly and youll stop complaining about rails. Top guys using proto will always be unpleasant. Please man up. What kind of sense does it make to use a gun that does the same damage at a longer range and still works as good closer? This isn't aboutthe player but the gun. The fact a duvolle and boundless do It better We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Omareth Nasadra The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 275	Posted - 2014.01.30 09:42:00 - [55] - Quote CR prof V user here, i only use the standard burst version, i do think it's a little OP, but RR user plz ackowledge that your weapon is also a thad op, balance is not far between every rifle variant, but i do think they made our new weapon just a bit over the edge Minmatar, In rust we trust!!! Omareth Nasadra/Erynyes
Jacques Cayton II Providence Guard Templis CALSF 563	Posted - 2014.01.30 09:44:00 - [56] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: rpastry wrote: RR already has its CQC nerf. 0.2 sec is a LONG time with current TTK. anyone using a CR/AR/SCR has the drop on you, and anyone who uses cover properly can seriously mess up a RR users day. ~Incidentally in EvE there's no railgun precharge time so if you want to 'follow the lore' then take it out. Thats less tha human reaction time and barely noticeable. The charge will other rifles only give an advantage if they meet exactly the same time and start shooting exactly the same moment (this barely ever happens) when the RR user don't precharge. And even then the RR has an advatage over the AR because of tighter hipfire. Balancing OP stats by easy to bypass gaming mechanics is stupid. Add .25 secs to the human reaction dunce We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Squagga The State Protectorate 93	Posted - 2014.01.30 11:51:00 - [57] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: As an additional note for RR abuse- i ran my Min Assault today, mixed with Adv commando. I used assault CR and rs-90 cr combo. basic RR would (no joke) kill be before i could even empty half my Cr clip out on them, they stood perfectly still, and shot me. Next match i ran the same thing, but used my Bk-42. Kaalakiota's nearly outmatched me, but i won 50/50. Assault rails on the other hand- i sneak up on a CK.0 already without shields. I shoot CK.0. CK0 has stacked plates so he doesn't die easily, turns around, spews ARR all over the wall and kills me. This happened 5 times. Not just with CK.0's either. I've had this happen with the enemy being in a half wounded 600hp galscout, a starter frame with a ARR, a militia heavy with an ARR, and even a minmatar logi. How can you defend a weapon that is so horribly broken that it wins fights for you EVEN WHEN THEIR VICTIM snuck up on them, attacks in numbers, AND uses super burst tactics(flux nade, follow with CR.)?????? Break their crutch. Snap it in half, burn it in a pit, then spray paint it chrome so you can say it's still a shiny new toy. **** you caldari. The Caldari people aren't a large population, but we fight as though we are Reloading, the silent killer.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1778	Posted - 2014.01.30 12:01:00 - [58] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. So basically you want to buff the damage but make it take longer to tap Rd to have it ready to fire? Nice stealth buff attempt. It's RoF should be reduced while keeping it's high Alpha damage. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1266	Posted - 2014.01.30 12:32:00 - [59] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Obodiah Garro wrote: Lulz, caldari have been the least mobile sobs in history. You misspelled Amarr. Actually, both are pretty closely bricked. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1388	Posted - 2014.01.30 15:03:00 - [60] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: D legendary hero wrote: technically the scr rifle has the highest damage per shot. still you have a good point. Use the same firing mechanics as the small rail turret, the RR should have a the same firing mechanice as all other rail tech in the game albeit faster. The RR shouldn't be useless close range. But, it shouldn't be on par with a GAR or CR. galente AR and CR are balanced verse each other because although the CR does more potential damage it is a burst fire weapon with an over-sampling cap (no turbo controlers for minmatar ...lol). the GAR has almost no recoil and the CR has the highest recoil among all the assault rilfes. therefore GAR = CR. balanced. The RR needs to be balanced against the Scr for longer range combat. in this way in CQC the flow should be: GAR = CR > RR = Scr and at long range: Scr = RR > GAR = CR Again, neither the Scr rifle nor the RR need be utterly useless at close range but they should NEVER be more effective than a GAR or CR. In terms of raw DPS, the order should be PR>CR>SCR>RR In terms of range, it should be RR>SCR>CR>PR As you said, the RR shouldn't be useless, but neither should it be the best. If a PR gunner can outmaneuver a RR and get in the PR optimal range, the PR should have the definite advantage. This is a good point. The only reason why I said the CR should have the highest dps (or highest potential) is because it is a burst fire weapon with tons of recoil. the PR has virtually no Recoil and is fully automatic. the PR actually has less damage fall off than the CR as well, so making it more powerful than the combat will effectively nerf the CR. lol When you think about it just about everything minmatar in this game has been nerfed either directly or indirectly. the dropsuits, the weapons. Once the caldari pistol and SMG come out the minmatar SMG will be indreictly nerfed... the flaylock was already nerfed. If the PR becomes better than the CR then the WHOLE minmatar race will be effectively nerfed, and I will be asking for a complete respec into caldari who seem to get consistent buffs....lol Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça



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