Yeah, true.

As for BPOs becoming like EVE, I'm all for it, AS LONG AS they are unlimited run BPOs, but require the materials to make the BPCs from them. Why on earth would they be limited-runs? Makes no sense whatsoever. IRL, would a blueprint for a building type magically vanish from existence when someone builds a second building using said blueprint? LOL, no, it's basically just a detailed guide. I have yet to see this issue be mentioned when discussing the possible future of BPOs.


EDIT: OP's proposed idea will never happen, but yes, in this current system I would happily pay AUR to change one of my spare AR BPOs into a CR BPO

Most of the BPOs are only mildly, if at all, more powerful than the starter gear and removing their functionality in favor of making them purely cosmetic is something I highly oppose. I didn't buy the dren pack for the brown color scheme and I would have zero use for it in that state. I didn't buy the EVE collectors edition for a templar 'skin' to put on my suits, nor would it be useful to have a dropsuit that looked like a logi but didn't provide any of the equipment slots etc.
The current starter gear offers a free assault role but no others, making BPOs superficial not only strips the value of products that are already bought and paid for (in real currency not ISK) it biases game play in favor of one role over all others, and it also flies in the face of New Eden precedence, there are still T2 BPOs in EVE despite their no longer being seeded into the game and players who hold those wield a much greater advantage over their counterparts than possession of the current BPOs grants, nor did those players pay IRL cash for those T2 BPOs they were simply paying the same game access fee as everyone else (which in the case of Dust is a fee of zero).

If CCP ever makes such a move they'd better at least offer a high value conversion of those BPOs into Omega boosters so that those who've spent actual money on the game (starting as far back as closed beta) aren't stuck with only cosmetic nonsense for which we have no use and for which we would not have paid in the first place.

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PS ~ I have nothing against the concept of adding skins as described. If folks want those then by all means add them, but a paint job can never be a substitute for an actual asset and it's a notable breach of trust to change a purchase from useful to cosmetic after it's been paid for.

EDIT: One further note, in current game state PC does vastly more to stabilize the in game econ than the BPOs, consider the earnings value per day of one district to the number of meta 1 fits which a player would have to lose to equal the same ISK footprint. If CCP is deeply concerned about the current state of the in game economy they have bigger fish to fry, and ones that don't involve altering the value of IRL purchases.

Very well said.

BPOs aren't that huge of an economic impact. They're replacing gear that is already dirt cheap. If we had ADV or PRO BPOs that would be a major problem, but the STD and MIL stuff is pretty harmless to the economy. If they get converted into paint jobs, I'm going to be pissed, that's not what I paid for.

So, my fellow nerds.

A simple question :

Would you pay Aurum in order to change the racial type of one of your existing BPO's? (IE: Change a Dragonfly Scout BPO to a Caldari suit instead of a gallente?)


Obvious Disclaimer : This is something I want to pitch to CCP but want to make sure people would buy it first. Not only this, but it's very possible that this would be very hard to implement and CCP may not have the time to do this anytime soon (if at all)

I paid for my BPOs and I would be perfectly fine if they were converted to cosmetic items. Getting beat up over paying for virtual assets is a pretty silly thing when all video games have an end-date. MAG just recently died for good, as a perfect example.

But yes, BPO's do have a major in-game impact on the economy. Sure, Standard/Militia stuff is dirt cheap and all but you're thinking short term, the single death. Assuming that I save 10,000 ISK per suit (a stretch at the standard/militia level), that doesn't sound like much on a battle-to-battle scenario but since I've been playing? I would have saved 63,830,000 ISK. That's a lot in Dust terms. I'm also not going to be losing any ISK from this point on and will continue to save ISK endlessly, it's riskless income.

This isn't to say that PC isn't a major contributor to economic impact but that's a strawman argument. They're separate issues. Just as well, this isn't to say that there shouldn't be compensation for any changes made but face it; people are going to ***** just by CCP even touching them at all. I'd much rather people get angry and quit the game for the sake of the game's overall health than let it fester at the game's expense.

And sure, T2 BPOs are a thing in Eve Online... but they're so rare... They're -insanely- hard to come by and when you do, the auctions are incredible. It's like Capital ships in high-sec it's so rare. I'm glad we're moving away from the BPO non-sense because it never should have existed in the first place, I never did agree with them; it's just people paying money so they can have a notable edge over those that didn't - same as the Boosters.

EDIT: Further more, T2 BPO's in Eve Online still have material costs. They still cost -SOMETHING-.

So, my fellow nerds.

A simple question :

Would you pay Aurum in order to change the racial type of one of your existing BPO's? (IE: Change a Dragonfly Scout BPO to a Caldari suit instead of a gallente?)


Obvious Disclaimer : This is something I want to pitch to CCP but want to make sure people would buy it first. Not only this, but it's very possible that this would be very hard to implement and CCP may not have the time to do this anytime soon (if at all)

So, my fellow nerds.

A simple question :

Would you pay Aurum in order to change the racial type of one of your existing BPO's? (IE: Change a Dragonfly Scout BPO to a Caldari suit instead of a gallente?)


Obvious Disclaimer : This is something I want to pitch to CCP but want to make sure people would buy it first. Not only this, but it's very possible that this would be very hard to implement and CCP may not have the time to do this anytime soon (if at all)

DUST doesn't have an end date planned. It's a persistent world. If CCP has its way, we will be playing EVE and DUST in 20 years from now. How are you arriving at the 63,830,000 ISK figure? Are you simply multiplying your carreer number of deaths by 10,000 ISK? You've never died in a non-BPO suit? Let's be honest here, you're pulling numbers out of your ass and using them to justify your argument, that's ridiculous. If I had to estimate the ISK value saved by my BPO suits/weapons/modules over the last year, it would probably be under 20 mill ISK. That's a drop in the bucket compared to the overall ISK won/lost over that same period. It also incentivizes cheap fits from vets which helps curb pubstomping.

It's not a strawman to point to the larger issues of the ISK sinks and faucets. A strawman is to misrepresent the other person's argument and argue against the misrepresentation. BPOs are a very small economic impact compared to PC. I think BPOs will become an increasingly small issue as the playerbase grows and no more are added. I think CCP had a good reason for removing new BPOs from being sold on the market, but the existing ones aren't breaking the economy. It's like a modest reward to players who slogged through the post-Uprising "beta period," and believed enough in the game to support it with significant amounts of cash, despite most people claiming doom.

Sure, my fault for using anecdotal, cherry-picked evidence but I figured since we're committing logical fallacies to strengthen weak arguments I might as well. Comparing BPO's to PC as far as degrees of economic impact isn't going to shift favor toward BPO's, they both make an impact just with different degrees. Saying that one makes more or less of an impact than the other isn't justification for leaving the other issue to stand - both should be destroyed with fire.

And yes, PC does make a bigger impact but it isn't without it's risks and losses. District locking aside (because I know for a fact that's going to be brought into this debate) a corporation can lose a district and by default lose the source of income. BPO's are permanent, cannot be lost and provide no inherent risk at all in their use. There is no way that I can take them away from you and you'll never spend a single ISK in their use.

ALL BPOs in Eve Online (including T2 BPOs) have material costs. They're permanent, sure, but you're still paying for -something- and that's what the main issue with Dust's BPOs are to begin with. You're not spending anything, you're not having to work for anything and you can't lose it. For that reason, I consider BPOs to be a larger economic impact than PC and I personally feel like they're a big factor in the reasoning for why this game hasn't enveloped a player market yet.

Stop for a second and consider the prices of standard Caldari Assault and Gallente Scout suits on a player market, considering the prominence of BPO's on those suits. What do you think the prices would be set as when compared to, say, a standard Commando suit if BPOs are a factor and the players set the prices?

Like I said, if they had some material cost I wouldn't care about their permanence - but they do, and for that reason I'm glad they stopped introducing them and I hope they convert them into something that doesn't directly impact the game's economy in any way, shape or form.

you know most people don't use a fully blue printed suit right? they throw on some enchanced equipment of adv weapons. So therefore there is some cost of isk to the ones whom do this. For example, my dren sentinel suit costs me 25k isk per fit.

I paid for my BPOs and I would be perfectly fine if they were converted to cosmetic items. Getting beat up over paying for virtual assets is a pretty silly thing when all video games have an end-date. MAG just recently died for good, as a perfect example.

But yes, BPO's do have a major in-game impact on the economy. Sure, Standard/Militia stuff is dirt cheap and all but you're thinking short term, the single death. Assuming that I save 10,000 ISK per suit (a stretch at the standard/militia level), that doesn't sound like much on a battle-to-battle scenario but since I've been playing? I would have saved 63,830,000 ISK. That's a lot in Dust terms. I'm also not going to be losing any ISK from this point on and will continue to save ISK endlessly, it's riskless income.


This isn't to say that PC isn't a major contributor to economic impact but that's a strawman argument. They're separate issues. Just as well, this isn't to say that there shouldn't be compensation for any changes made but face it; people are going to ***** just by CCP even touching them at all. I'd much rather people get angry and quit the game for the sake of the game's overall health than let it fester at the game's expense.

And sure, T2 BPOs are a thing in Eve Online... but they're so rare... They're -insanely- hard to come by and when you do, the auctions are incredible. It's like Capital ships in high-sec it's so rare. I'm glad we're moving away from the BPO non-sense because it never should have existed in the first place, I never did agree with them; it's just people paying money so they can have a notable edge over those that didn't - same as the Boosters.

EDIT: Further more, T2 BPO's in Eve Online still have material costs. They still cost -SOMETHING-.

T2 BPOs aren't just "a thing" in EVE they're a limitless ISK faucet, but more than direct ISK they can shape market forces, define the price and accessibility of goods and even turn the tide larger engagements when one side has more access than the other. They effect build times, resource types, and that's not even touching on the concept of selling BPC copies...

The current BPOs are vastly closer in potency to the starter ships in EVE (which are also free an limitless), this can be easily seen by their mechanical proximity to the free starter fits in Dust. A Sver or Raven BPO in Dust is much closer mechanically and meta to a Vexor BPO than to an Ishtar, and even a Vexor has substantially more statistical advantage over a starter ship in EVE than a dragonfly assault has over a free starter fit in Dust.

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T2 BPOs aren't just "a thing" in EVE they're a limitless ISK faucet, but more than direct ISK they can shape market forces, define the price and accessibility of goods and even turn the tide larger engagements when one side has more access than the other. They effect build times, resource types, and that's not even touching on the concept of selling BPC copies...

The current BPOs are vastly closer in potency to the starter ships in EVE (which are also free an limitless), this can be easily seen by their mechanical proximity to the free starter fits in Dust. A Sver or Raven BPO in Dust is much closer mechanically and meta to a Vexor BPO than to an Ishtar, and even a Vexor has substantially more statistical advantage over a starter ship in EVE than a dragonfly assault has over a free starter fit in Dust.

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Every time T2 BPOs comes up and their effect on the market, it inevitably goes to how they're such an ISK faucet, control markets, etc.

The number of T2 BPOs in game is so low compared to the T2 market that, while they might be an ISK faucet, it's just a little drip. The amount of manufacturing you can do straight off a T2 BPO is much less than you could use it to make T2 BPCs, and that's still low compared to the T2 BPC manufacturing you can do through Invention.

This.

The problem isn't the loot, the problem is that BPO's allow people to just avoid material loss entirely. Playing with "free gear" is ultimately unsustainable, and will lead to uncontrollable inflation in the long run, breaking the economy. Its really no surprise to see CCP shrinking away from the issuance of new BPO's, just as its no surprise to see a sizeable isk sink built into Faction Warfare. Anyone on board the "more BPO's!" train is setting themselves up for disappointment in the future.

Swapping BPO Suit Race for AUR - Thread
Status: Interesting discussion. This is something we'll have a chat to the CPM about.

What I dont get is why they even made the BPOs in the first. They had to have known they would be a problem. I hope it wasnt to sell more aurum because thats the only reason I put cash into this game