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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1885
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:So, my fellow nerds.
A simple question :
Would you pay Aurum in order to change the racial type of one of your existing BPO's? (IE: Change a Dragonfly Scout BPO to a Caldari suit instead of a gallente?)
Obvious Disclaimer : This is something I want to pitch to CCP but want to make sure people would buy it first. Not only this, but it's very possible that this would be very hard to implement and CCP may not have the time to do this anytime soon (if at all)
Yes.
I'd even extend it a bit further to say it would be nice to change racial weapon BPOs into another racial sub-type. I have several thousand AUR that (since the removal of both BPOs and Omega) is just sitting around because there's nothing on the AUR market I have any use for (my basic boosters are already stockpiled for over a year). If CCP opened up this option I'd be able to make more use of the AUR items I already have (for example I have more than one Dragonfly BPO) and would have something to spend my AUR on, I'd even buy more AUR if my current stockpile isn't quite enough to give me full racial diversity among the BPOs I already possess.
As a last note it would be a great promo for this feature to offer the other racial BPOs on the market for a very limited time. It would highlight the new feature (earning CCP AUR) and it would allow some of the players who haven't been around quite as long to spend AUR to get in on the action.
0.02 ISK Cross
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1885
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:I'd prefer even more to pay to change my racial avatar and starting BPO suits. But yeah, would be neat to convert some of the prize stuff I don't use into something valuable. I'm convinced though that the longterm solution here isn't as much to shuffle around existing assets as it is to fully convert our current BPO's into a skin that could be applied to consumable gear. Meaning if I've got a Dren BPO skin, than I use it to apply the unique color scheme to my medium suits that I use up in combat. This would preserve the value that players have around unique (and renewable) colored suits, while still addressing CCP's design problems with existing "bottomless" gear sources. Most of the BPOs are only mildly, if at all, more powerful than the starter gear and removing their functionality in favor of making them purely cosmetic is something I highly oppose. I didn't buy the dren pack for the brown color scheme and I would have zero use for it in that state. I didn't buy the EVE collectors edition for a templar 'skin' to put on my suits, nor would it be useful to have a dropsuit that looked like a logi but didn't provide any of the equipment slots etc. The current starter gear offers a free assault role but no others, making BPOs superficial not only strips the value of products that are already bought and paid for (in real currency not ISK) it biases game play in favor of one role over all others, and it also flies in the face of New Eden precedence, there are still T2 BPOs in EVE despite their no longer being seeded into the game and players who hold those wield a much greater advantage over their counterparts than possession of the current BPOs grants, nor did those players pay IRL cash for those T2 BPOs they were simply paying the same game access fee as everyone else (which in the case of Dust is a fee of zero).
If CCP ever makes such a move they'd better at least offer a high value conversion of those BPOs into Omega boosters so that those who've spent actual money on the game (starting as far back as closed beta) aren't stuck with only cosmetic nonsense for which we have no use and for which we would not have paid in the first place.
0.02 ISK Cross
PS ~ I have nothing against the concept of adding skins as described. If folks want those then by all means add them, but a paint job can never be a substitute for an actual asset and it's a notable breach of trust to change a purchase from useful to cosmetic after it's been paid for.
EDIT: One further note, in current game state PC does vastly more to stabilize the in game econ than the BPOs, consider the earnings value per day of one district to the number of meta 1 fits which a player would have to lose to equal the same ISK footprint. If CCP is deeply concerned about the current state of the in game economy they have bigger fish to fry, and ones that don't involve altering the value of IRL purchases.
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Cross Atu
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Posted - 2014.02.02 23:33:00 -
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Aeon Amadi wrote:I paid for my BPOs and I would be perfectly fine if they were converted to cosmetic items. Getting beat up over paying for virtual assets is a pretty silly thing when all video games have an end-date. MAG just recently died for good, as a perfect example.
But yes, BPO's do have a major in-game impact on the economy. Sure, Standard/Militia stuff is dirt cheap and all but you're thinking short term, the single death. Assuming that I save 10,000 ISK per suit (a stretch at the standard/militia level), that doesn't sound like much on a battle-to-battle scenario but since I've been playing? I would have saved 63,830,000 ISK. That's a lot in Dust terms. I'm also not going to be losing any ISK from this point on and will continue to save ISK endlessly, it's riskless income.
This isn't to say that PC isn't a major contributor to economic impact but that's a strawman argument. They're separate issues. Just as well, this isn't to say that there shouldn't be compensation for any changes made but face it; people are going to ***** just by CCP even touching them at all. I'd much rather people get angry and quit the game for the sake of the game's overall health than let it fester at the game's expense. Much like running T2 production in secured lines in EVE, and even more like select corps being able to milk the current PC setup for vast amounts of passive income. The ISK value of a BPO may have no end date as long as the game is running but nor does holding districts in PC (presuming neither are patched). Your contention that this is a strawman is flawed. Development resources are not limitless, changes in game are prioritized constantly as part of the development process and a focus on larger implications is simply sensible practice. Focusing resources on removing a lessor factor while at the same time altering the fundamental nature of items post sale is a poor choice on more than one front. SP is a lasting resource with limitless effect on the game, and frankly grants more power/advantage than any BPO, it even has economic implications because of how it makes gear more effective thus fundamentally altering the risk v reward dynamic in those cases. We can even tag direct econ values to these investments by looking at the AUR cost of various gear or comparing the meta grade cost variants between ISK versions. By the reasoning you've presented above it would be entirely fine for CCP to retroactively alter the effect/value of skill boosters after they're bought and payed for. Frankly that is a breach of trust and no matter how many folks are of the same opinion as yourself and would be fine with it there are plenty who are not fine with it, and perhaps more importantly there are many potential players who will be looking at how things are done. In a gaming market where not offering flowing respecs raises so much resistance/ire there's really no case to be made for altering the contents of micro transactions post purchase having 'no negative impact' on game growth/player faith.
Aeon Amadi wrote:And sure, T2 BPOs are a thing in Eve Online... but they're so rare... They're -insanely- hard to come by and when you do, the auctions are incredible. It's like Capital ships in high-sec it's so rare. I'm glad we're moving away from the BPO non-sense because it never should have existed in the first place, I never did agree with them; it's just people paying money so they can have a notable edge over those that didn't - same as the Boosters.
EDIT: Further more, T2 BPO's in Eve Online still have material costs. They still cost -SOMETHING-. T2 BPOs aren't just "a thing" in EVE they're a limitless ISK faucet, but more than direct ISK they can shape market forces, define the price and accessibility of goods and even turn the tide larger engagements when one side has more access than the other. They effect build times, resource types, and that's not even touching on the concept of selling BPC copies...
The current BPOs are vastly closer in potency to the starter ships in EVE (which are also free an limitless), this can be easily seen by their mechanical proximity to the free starter fits in Dust. A Sver or Raven BPO in Dust is much closer mechanically and meta to a Vexor BPO than to an Ishtar, and even a Vexor has substantially more statistical advantage over a starter ship in EVE than a dragonfly assault has over a free starter fit in Dust.
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Posted - 2014.02.03 19:09:00 -
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Cross Atu wrote: T2 BPOs aren't just "a thing" in EVE they're a limitless ISK faucet, but more than direct ISK they can shape market forces, define the price and accessibility of goods and even turn the tide larger engagements when one side has more access than the other. They effect build times, resource types, and that's not even touching on the concept of selling BPC copies...
The current BPOs are vastly closer in potency to the starter ships in EVE (which are also free an limitless), this can be easily seen by their mechanical proximity to the free starter fits in Dust. A Sver or Raven BPO in Dust is much closer mechanically and meta to a Vexor BPO than to an Ishtar, and even a Vexor has substantially more statistical advantage over a starter ship in EVE than a dragonfly assault has over a free starter fit in Dust.
0.02 ISK Cross
Every time T2 BPOs comes up and their effect on the market, it inevitably goes to how they're such an ISK faucet, control markets, etc. The number of T2 BPOs in game is so low compared to the T2 market that, while they might be an ISK faucet, it's just a little drip. The amount of manufacturing you can do straight off a T2 BPO is much less than you could use it to make T2 BPCs, and that's still low compared to the T2 BPC manufacturing you can do through Invention. All of which is still more in both mechanical power of in game items and raw ISK of transactions/use value than the meta 1 and below BPOs in Dust.
I agree that the number of T2 BPOs remaining in EVE is small enough as to not be game breaking but when a copy of an item you possess can be sold for more than some ships, much less other resources, I don't see much of a contention to be made that they aren't of substantial meaningful value, it's not like they're being collected just for novelty (unlike say the fireworks launchers or the crystal ball ). Point being if an item with so much more mechanical and economic potency can exist within the EVE economy and not be game breaking then it's substantively lessor cousin can surly remain in Dust 514 without causing an apocalypse in New Eden.
Honestly, while I don't propose it be changed at this stage of the game, Dusts lack of "location" being a meaningful factor in the economy is more of an impediment to economic development and a thriving EVE-Dust link than the BPO 'twins' and PC combined, just think of what it will do to market trends and resource consumption game wide if suddenly EVE players can make Dust assets to sell for ISK on the ground and list those from anywhere for sale to anywhere without having to transport them. Consider what that does to mining and production alone and the ripple effects of it. Obviously this sense of place is a much longer term consideration, and strays a bit from the thread topic, but when we're discussing the New Eden economy in macro, and implications of items on the game(s) in the long term, it is a vital part of the context which cannot simply be overlooked or ignored.
Cheers, Cross
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Cross Atu
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Posted - 2014.02.28 20:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:
Btw, pc locking has wrecked the economy far worse then the bpos ever will.
Quoted for truth.
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