DUST Search - FW - bounty for fighting for a conssistantly losing side

Heeman- 89 wrote:

Aerius Corius wrote:

ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:

Royalgiedro wrote:

I think that FW rewards should be as follows:

1.) The victor earns the standard victor amount based on Loyalty level.

2.) The loser earns loyalty points by the equation LP=WP/10 up to a maximum of 70% what they would have earned for winning.

3.) The loser gets the +75 loyalty for their faction if they score in the top 5, have 1500+ WP, or 20+ kills

What do you think? This way if you fought valiantly for your faction and were defeated by a superior foe your Faction still recognizes your contribution.

that just incentivised farming wp and not caring if you win or lose.

Drop Point 3 - He's right it incentivises WP farming and not team work.

I think Point 2 has lots of potential - balancing that is the tough part. I think 75% is too much personally, maybe 50% instead. You want the losers to, well, lose. Battles need to be meaningful and if you sunk a lot of suits into a superior enemy, you should always come out with a loss. That's the core game mechanic in DUST - risk and reward.

That said, Point 2 enables you to lessen that loss somewhat through admirable play and teamwork - WP is the only mechanic currently for tracking contribution so it will have to suffice. But a 50% cap would ensure you still LOST equipment wise, but less so, which leads to more players sticking to their preferred faction based on the assumption you'll win some and lose some.

As more players stick to their faction, you'll see FW balance out a little more - the core reason we're having this discussion. BUT, other problems still exist such as weapon balance and how that affects the faction store (and whether or not you want anything in it).

I like Aerius's idea here, but I also like Royal's point 3, just maybe not like that, I think if you are in the upper echelon of the losing faction you should get some + in the loyalty column, maybe not 75, maybe +10 or something small but still enough to recognize.

"Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha

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ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 843	Posted - 2014.01.27 07:30:00 - [1] - Quote there really is no incentive to run for the 2 consisstantly losing sides in FW. caldari and amarr. while some teams are able to field full q-sync teams to take advantage of the low amount of players going for those sides to their benefit the actual fact is these sides still have little chance of gaining wins. so my suggestion is that as a faction loses a district/planet to the opposition a small bounty pool builds up to incentivise players to continue to fight for that faction. this is not a rewards for losing this is a bonus to incentive pushing harder when all looks like it might be lost, but not only that, to give you a reason to come back and fight again for that faction. as time goes on the pool gets bigger and bigger and decreases as your faction wins more battles. now we will have good teams switching sides in order to get a little more hopefully evening out combat on both sides of each faction war bounty could be isk or LP bonus or a bit of both. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Munin-Frey Fish Spotters Inc. 106	Posted - 2014.01.27 07:59:00 - [2] - Quote I also feel like FW is no place for winner take all. It creates long cues since everyone wants to be on the winning side. Also, it makes no sense since mercenaries get paid before they fight not after they win. In my opinion the reward should be the same regardless of if you are on the winning team or not. Closed Beta Veteran
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 843	Posted - 2014.01.27 09:05:00 - [3] - Quote Everyone should get a flat LP reward for fighting depending on time in the fight and contribution. After that there should be a 2nd reward. The winner receives bonus LP for winning and the loser receives isk. The LP reward equals double the isk reward value. So the incentive is to win but there is also a reward to keep pushing if your not. If a side consisstantly loses then their isk bonus goes up and the winner LP bonus goes down. this should get players playing for the oposing side for the better bonus. That or just a simple LP for winning and isk for losing. Personally I would still prefer a bonus to betray my faction https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1155	Posted - 2014.01.27 11:22:00 - [4] - Quote Consistently. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?* The pile of garbage is more lethal.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 843	Posted - 2014.01.27 16:56:00 - [5] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Consistently. what a bell end. I couldnt give 2 S*** if my spelling is correct. Lay down something constructive in the future instead of being an ass :) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Durza Wolfmord The Unit 514 5	Posted - 2014.01.27 20:24:00 - [6] - Quote I believe LP should be based on the ISk Spent in battle, and Warpoints acculmtes. Thara aay id you dump 10 mil ISK into a match( wow are you loyal), you arent given the same LP as somwone spinning in the redline.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1158	Posted - 2014.01.27 23:20:00 - [7] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Consistently. what a bell end. I couldnt give 2 S*** if my spelling is correct. Lay down something constructive in the future instead of being an ass :) Of course it's constructive! Now you have no reason to make the same mistake again. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 304	Posted - 2014.01.28 00:03:00 - [8] - Quote For once i agree with ADAM, this would be a great idea Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Secondarius Maximus Bragian Order Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.01.28 02:19:00 - [9] - Quote just let EVE FW players put isk reward for their militia, i bet some are willing to fund so much that victories will come eventually.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 242	Posted - 2014.01.28 06:43:00 - [10] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: there really is no incentive to run for the 2 consistently losing sides in FW. caldari and amarr. while some teams are able to field full q-sync teams to take advantage of the low amount of players going for those sides to their benefit the actual fact is these sides still have little chance of gaining wins. so my suggestion is that as a faction loses a district/planet to the opposition a small bounty pool builds up to incentivise players to continue to fight for that faction. this is not a rewards for losing this is a bonus to incentive pushing harder when all looks like it might be lost, but not only that, to give you a reason to come back and fight again for that faction. as time goes on the pool gets bigger and bigger and decreases as your faction wins more battles. now we will have good teams switching sides in order to get a little more hopefully evening out combat on both sides of each faction war bounty could be isk or LP bonus or a bit of both. I like the idea but without punishing players that are success with they tactics on battlefield. Beside Amarr/Caldari usually wins in the mornings of EU TZ(Prime time of USA). I'm here since may 2012, my EVE alter ego is Nosum Hseebnrido.

ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 884	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:02:00 - [11] - Quote it makes sense that a faction will want you to win. we are mercs so it also makes sense we would tell these factions that we will fight but whatever the outcome we want paying. the faction would then agree or not. with FW we have to assume they do agree. when we win they would be happy and say instead of giving you money we would like to give you access to some of our off the market military goods. any merc would be mad not to accept. as for losing well we were contracted to fight and should be paid. they obviously wouldn't want to give you anything extra if you lose but you did your job and a contracts a contract. thinking about it they should remove the way we accept a fw fight and turn it completely into contract based combat. the more a faction loses in a district the higher the contract is and the longer they win the lower it is. contracts would contain different levels of reward stating both the winning and losing reward in the contract. these contracts would be always up for any contested district and would alter rewards as the day goes on. anyone can select a contract to join the battle and would be paid a fixed amount based on what that contract said at the start. I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 574	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:21:00 - [12] - Quote Secondarius Maximus wrote: just let EVE FW players put isk reward for their militia, i bet some are willing to fund so much that victories will come eventually. This I feel is the absolute best answer. If Eve FW players actually get an advantage for what we do on the ground they would indeed be willing to invest. Part of the issue in FW is lack of real rewards, LP payout is low and is a total ISK sink so everyone just wants the most LP for least investment. So everyone has went Gal/Min for easy rewards. Let Eve pick up the slack. Who else could make a better contract than a real person? Granted it would have to be taxed to prevent Isk flood but still would be awesome.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 885	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:29:00 - [13] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Secondarius Maximus wrote: just let EVE FW players put isk reward for their militia, i bet some are willing to fund so much that victories will come eventually. This I feel is the absolute best answer. If Eve FW players actually get an advantage for what we do on the ground they would indeed be willing to invest. Part of the issue in FW is lack of real rewards, LP payout is low and is a total ISK sink so everyone just wants the most LP for least investment. So everyone has went Gal/Min for easy rewards. Let Eve pick up the slack. Who else could make a better contract than a real person? Granted it would have to be taxed to prevent Isk flood but still would be awesome. problem is we are not fighting for the eve players. we are fighting for the factions and so are they. they are unlikely to pay us to do something they are doing themselves. its a combined effort to win a system for a faction which benefits all 3 sides. besides who is going to pay us. most fw is made up of hundreds of individuals on all sides. which one is going to foot the bill so that the others can earn extra. it just wont work I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1885	Posted - 2014.02.02 00:31:00 - [14] - Quote LP rewards should be distributed via a similar methodology as ISK is currently in pubs. Time in battle, WP earned, assets destroyed etc with the winning side taking 2/3rds of the possible earnings. Further standings with a faction (and thus LP earned from them) being bound to who you fight for (i.e. so you lose standings when you fight against a faction or their ally) is vital. EVE has a great method for this where by a player may, if they work very hard, gain positive standings with all factions, but it is not easy and requires active focus to maintain (it also requires working essentially evenly for all factions, which would address the problems mentioned in the OP at least to some extent). Having more of an EVE-Dust link via FW would be a great boon and there are a number of options there regarding the who and how of it, such as player contracts, alliance wide standings beginning to have implications within Dust etc but those are likely longer term goals due to the logistics of iterating on them. 0.02 ISK Cross PS ~ failing any of the above the suggestion in the OP would be an improvement over the current situation as I understand it. SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Lazy Scumbag Intara Direct Action Caldari State 133	Posted - 2014.02.02 00:39:00 - [15] - Quote If they really wanted the Eve link to be strong, then Eve player corps would need to cough up the money and choose their own mercs
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 893	Posted - 2014.02.02 00:46:00 - [16] - Quote Lazy Scumbag wrote: If they really wanted the Eve link to be strong, then Eve player corps would need to cough up the money and choose their own mercs thats all well and good for pc but this is FW we are talking about. we benefit the same as eve via lp earned. as i said earlier why would random eve players pay you. they get no different benefit than we do in fw. we earn lp and they earn lp. I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 954	Posted - 2014.02.06 17:01:00 - [17] - Quote there is an incentive to win but there is no incentive to fight if you are losing. thats what it all boils down to I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 986	Posted - 2014.02.12 18:08:00 - [18] - Quote still want I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 521	Posted - 2014.02.12 18:12:00 - [19] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Everyone should get a flat LP reward for fighting depending on time in the fight and contribution. After that there should be a 2nd reward. The winner receives bonus LP for winning and the loser receives isk. The LP reward equals double the isk reward value. So the incentive is to win but there is also a reward to keep pushing if your not. If a side consisstantly loses then their isk bonus goes up and the winner LP bonus goes down. this should get players playing for the oposing side for the better bonus. This. +1 I would love to play Amarr FW and try to earn some AK.0 logis, but losing constantly for no reward isn't fun and drains the wallet. EDIT: Fighting hard while losing is a great example of loyalty. Perhaps LP bonuses should be given to the top members of the losing team, while the rest of the team gets ISK bonuses?
The Infected One Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 749	Posted - 2014.02.12 21:05:00 - [20] - Quote FW does need to be fixed. I fight for Minmatar (Not because its a winning side, not for an "Easy fight", but because its the faction that I picked when I made this character, and the suits/weapons I use (hopefully with a skill refund I can finally go FULL Minmatar instead of that filthy Aamar heavy) and I support the Minmatar ways when doing some RP)) I will continue to fight for Minmatar no matter what changes are made, so its not really about personal gain, but I do wish to see a more balanced fight, and not have to wait 8+ minutes for a match. Also, the LP layout should be higher, and does it really have to only give you 75 pts towards your standing only IF you win? I have been stuck at lvl 5 FOREVER. 2000+ points to get to lvl 6, earning 75 a win, taking 8+ minutes to get into a match....BAH I am here to ask you one question, and one question only: EXPLOSIONS? THAT SENTENCE HAD TOO MANY SYLLABLES! APOLOGIZE!

ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1093	Posted - 2014.02.25 22:36:00 - [21] - Quote still think this is a good idea I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Heeman- 89 Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance 0	Posted - 2014.02.26 00:10:00 - [22] - Quote See the way I understood was the reason they took away ISK rewards from FW was because of two things: 1) LP 2) Salvage Problem is, I keep getting salvage I can't or have no desire to use...which takes away from the rewards of being on the side that loses. I play Amarr FW constantly and they consistently lose battles, there needs to be either a better algorithm for salvage for stuff I can use and consistently use or they need to go back to the ISK reward in my opinion "Colonel Graff: We won! That's all that matters. Ender Wiggin: No. The way we win matters. " -Ender's Game
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1093	Posted - 2014.02.26 00:21:00 - [23] - Quote Heeman- 89 wrote: See the way I understood was the reason they took away ISK rewards from FW was because of two things: 1) LP 2) Salvage Problem is, I keep getting salvage I can't or have no desire to use...which takes away from the rewards of being on the side that loses. I play Amarr FW constantly and they consistently lose battles, there needs to be either a better algorithm for salvage for stuff I can use and consistently use or they need to go back to the ISK reward in my opinion i think what they expected was everyone running proto so high salvage rewards but it ended up as more mlt gear meaning the rewards were actually next to worthless. the combination of the 2 with the weak salvage payout made both rewards seem weak. I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Heeman- 89 Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance 0	Posted - 2014.02.26 00:44:00 - [24] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Heeman- 89 wrote: See the way I understood was the reason they took away ISK rewards from FW was because of two things: 1) LP 2) Salvage Problem is, I keep getting salvage I can't or have no desire to use...which takes away from the rewards of being on the side that loses. I play Amarr FW constantly and they consistently lose battles, there needs to be either a better algorithm for salvage for stuff I can use and consistently use or they need to go back to the ISK reward in my opinion i think what they expected was everyone running proto so high salvage rewards but it ended up as more mlt gear meaning the rewards were actually next to worthless. the combination of the 2 with the weak salvage payout made both rewards seem weak. It's still a weak payout, I honestly would be fine with the losing rewards if I got stuff I actually wanted/could use instead of the mountains of crap I have now that I can't use "Colonel Graff: We won! That's all that matters. Ender Wiggin: No. The way we win matters. " -Ender's Game
Aerius Corius FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 24	Posted - 2014.02.26 01:19:00 - [25] - Quote Something to keep in mind is gear balance and what's coming in 1.8 and beyond - as suits become more racially oriented with weapons (amarr suits will incetivise laser weapons, which means laser weapons NEED TO NOT SUCK). Part of FW's problem is that fact there - and it will only get worst since DUST faction stores provide racial weapons. There won't be anyone fighting for Amarr if its gear is not balanced to be effective. Likewise for any other race as balance changes come and go. Just food for thought. To the actual topic of giving people reason to fight for losing factions: 1) I think loyalty points should be gained no matter what - though the winner SHOULD be paid more, after all they did good by their faction. However, losers should at least gain some sort of consolation prize...they did fight for their faction after all. 2) Salvage needs to be faction specific - i.e. you salvage your own faction's equipment, which alleviates some cost. This is a big bonus for the loser as much as the winner as it offsets some of the costs in FW (if only a little). 3) A bounty pool is risky, but it would lead to more team swapping and thus balanced play. That said - you also won't see standings rise high as a result, which for potential future plans of standings restricted equipment would be detrimental. For now though, a bounty pool would be helpful for keeping a stable play environment as DUST continues to develop. All in all though, one of the problems CCP faces is how they define racial weapons - what I mean is that less people will fight for Caldari because: -Sniper -Swarm Launcher -Rail Rifle Only one of those is favorable and used often - the rail rifle as it is a typical assault weapon. Launchers and snipers are much more specialized and used a lot less. So as development moves forward, the root cause of some of FW's problems - inequality in faction equipment utility - needs to be solved. People will heavily rely on gallente and minmatar because right now they have more weapons with higher usage - AR/CR/Shotgun/HMG...all are highly used weapons and very versatile. An Example... Each faction store should have the following weapons in their own variations... -Assault Gun -Sidearm -Specialty Weapon -Heavy Weapon So to flesh that out in terms of assault weapons (with what we know now)... Amarr: Laser Rifle Caldari: Rail Rifle Minmatar: Combat Rifle Gallente: Assault Rifle These weapons need to be balanced against each other so players will choose factions based on their preference of play style or lore...an equal field. Same applies to the other weapons. The specialty category is that extra oomph of "this is why I'm Caldari" or some such. You shouldn't choose combat rifles because they're OP - you should choose them because you like burst fire gameplay. Below is the special category that would incentivise 'dedicated' faction choices...i.e., fight only for a chosen faction. EX of the Oomph: Amarr: Tachyon Heavy Beam (think plasma cannon - severe dmg that is highly concentrated, like a laser rifle on steroids) Caldari: Thales Sniper Rifle or equivalency - an immensely powerful sniper rifle, but very much a specialized weapon type not usable in most combat situations. Gallente: Superior Plasma Cannon - the end all be all in anti-vehicle payloads. Now with sunshade attachment for weathering that extra glare from the explosions. Minmatar: Wide Spread Heavy Machine Gun - because bullets in a straight line can only kill people in a straight line. Each of these "oomph" specialty weapons are usable in unique, strategic situations - they aren't FOTM quality as such. They would only be available via the faction's store and thus for players that want a given item, they need to fight for that faction. You could even propose minimum standings requirements for these weapons so only 'dedicated' players can access them. What I listed are just fictional example 'super' weapons - not so much super in power, but very powerful in specific situations. This doesn't solve all of FW's woes of unbalanced faction fighting, but it could help. That guy you killed with 0% shields? Yeah, I sniped him - go team. Oh, you didn't know...hmm. *CCP: Display Assists!!!
Royalgiedro Nor Clan Combat Logistics 4	Posted - 2014.02.26 07:43:00 - [26] - Quote I think that FW rewards should be as follows: 1.) The victor earns the standard victor amount based on Loyalty level. 2.) The loser earns loyalty points by the equation LP=WP/10 up to a maximum of 70% what they would have earned for winning. 3.) The loser gets the +75 loyalty for their faction if they score in the top 5, have 1500+ WP, or 20+ kills What do you think? This way if you fought valiantly for your faction and were defeated by a superior foe your Faction still recognizes your contribution.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1111	Posted - 2014.02.26 18:49:00 - [27] - Quote Royalgiedro wrote: I think that FW rewards should be as follows: 1.) The victor earns the standard victor amount based on Loyalty level. 2.) The loser earns loyalty points by the equation LP=WP/10 up to a maximum of 70% what they would have earned for winning. 3.) The loser gets the +75 loyalty for their faction if they score in the top 5, have 1500+ WP, or 20+ kills What do you think? This way if you fought valiantly for your faction and were defeated by a superior foe your Faction still recognizes your contribution. that just incentivised farming wp and not caring if you win or lose. I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Aerius Corius FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 29	Posted - 2014.02.26 19:11:00 - [28] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Royalgiedro wrote: I think that FW rewards should be as follows: 1.) The victor earns the standard victor amount based on Loyalty level. 2.) The loser earns loyalty points by the equation LP=WP/10 up to a maximum of 70% what they would have earned for winning. 3.) The loser gets the +75 loyalty for their faction if they score in the top 5, have 1500+ WP, or 20+ kills What do you think? This way if you fought valiantly for your faction and were defeated by a superior foe your Faction still recognizes your contribution. that just incentivised farming wp and not caring if you win or lose. Drop Point 3 - He's right it incentivises WP farming and not team work. I think Point 2 has lots of potential - balancing that is the tough part. I think 75% is too much personally, maybe 50% instead. You want the losers to, well, lose. Battles need to be meaningful and if you sunk a lot of suits into a superior enemy, you should always come out with a loss. That's the core game mechanic in DUST - risk and reward. That said, Point 2 enables you to lessen that loss somewhat through admirable play and teamwork - WP is the only mechanic currently for tracking contribution so it will have to suffice. But a 50% cap would ensure you still LOST equipment wise, but less so, which leads to more players sticking to their preferred faction based on the assumption you'll win some and lose some. As more players stick to their faction, you'll see FW balance out a little more - the core reason we're having this discussion. BUT, other problems still exist such as weapon balance and how that affects the faction store (and whether or not you want anything in it). That guy you killed with 0% shields? Yeah, I sniped him - go team. Oh, you didn't know...hmm. *CCP: Display Assists!!!
Heeman- 89 Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance 0	Posted - 2014.02.27 00:18:00 - [29] - Quote Aerius Corius wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Royalgiedro wrote: I think that FW rewards should be as follows: 1.) The victor earns the standard victor amount based on Loyalty level. 2.) The loser earns loyalty points by the equation LP=WP/10 up to a maximum of 70% what they would have earned for winning. 3.) The loser gets the +75 loyalty for their faction if they score in the top 5, have 1500+ WP, or 20+ kills What do you think? This way if you fought valiantly for your faction and were defeated by a superior foe your Faction still recognizes your contribution. that just incentivised farming wp and not caring if you win or lose. Drop Point 3 - He's right it incentivises WP farming and not team work. I think Point 2 has lots of potential - balancing that is the tough part. I think 75% is too much personally, maybe 50% instead. You want the losers to, well, lose. Battles need to be meaningful and if you sunk a lot of suits into a superior enemy, you should always come out with a loss. That's the core game mechanic in DUST - risk and reward. That said, Point 2 enables you to lessen that loss somewhat through admirable play and teamwork - WP is the only mechanic currently for tracking contribution so it will have to suffice. But a 50% cap would ensure you still LOST equipment wise, but less so, which leads to more players sticking to their preferred faction based on the assumption you'll win some and lose some. As more players stick to their faction, you'll see FW balance out a little more - the core reason we're having this discussion. BUT, other problems still exist such as weapon balance and how that affects the faction store (and whether or not you want anything in it). I like Aerius's idea here, but I also like Royal's point 3, just maybe not like that, I think if you are in the upper echelon of the losing faction you should get some + in the loyalty column, maybe not 75, maybe +10 or something small but still enough to recognize. Dust Bittervet since August 2012... EVE Bittervet since way before that...
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7639	Posted - 2014.02.27 00:35:00 - [30] - Quote Heeman- 89 wrote: Aerius Corius wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Royalgiedro wrote: I think that FW rewards should be as follows: 1.) The victor earns the standard victor amount based on Loyalty level. 2.) The loser earns loyalty points by the equation LP=WP/10 up to a maximum of 70% what they would have earned for winning. 3.) The loser gets the +75 loyalty for their faction if they score in the top 5, have 1500+ WP, or 20+ kills What do you think? This way if you fought valiantly for your faction and were defeated by a superior foe your Faction still recognizes your contribution. that just incentivised farming wp and not caring if you win or lose. Drop Point 3 - He's right it incentivises WP farming and not team work. I think Point 2 has lots of potential - balancing that is the tough part. I think 75% is too much personally, maybe 50% instead. You want the losers to, well, lose. Battles need to be meaningful and if you sunk a lot of suits into a superior enemy, you should always come out with a loss. That's the core game mechanic in DUST - risk and reward. That said, Point 2 enables you to lessen that loss somewhat through admirable play and teamwork - WP is the only mechanic currently for tracking contribution so it will have to suffice. But a 50% cap would ensure you still LOST equipment wise, but less so, which leads to more players sticking to their preferred faction based on the assumption you'll win some and lose some. As more players stick to their faction, you'll see FW balance out a little more - the core reason we're having this discussion. BUT, other problems still exist such as weapon balance and how that affects the faction store (and whether or not you want anything in it). I like Aerius's idea here, but I also like Royal's point 3, just maybe not like that, I think if you are in the upper echelon of the losing faction you should get some + in the loyalty column, maybe not 75, maybe +10 or something small but still enough to recognize. Holy....CVA has a Dust Arm?! "Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha



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