...While at the same time, the basic plates are wow? I mean, going from STD to PRO, the stats line up like:

STD: 85 hp 2% penalty
ADV: 110 hp 3% penalty
PRO: 135 hp 5% penalty

So you get a STD plate, it gives you awesome HP for a negligible penalty. From STD to ADV, you gain 1% more penalty and 25 more HP. So that's 50% greater penalty and ~30% greater health. ADV plates are useful, but less efficient than STD plates. (I would expect higher tiers to be more or equally efficient, wouldn't you?) Then the big problem. The leap from STD to PRO is a 150% penalty increase, with a ~59% HP increase. So that means complex plates are incredibly inefficient compared to STD plates. Two STD plates give more health and less penalty than complex, and even use less CPU/PG to boot.

So I was wondering what people would think of nerfing basic plates and buffing the complex plates? Here's how I would do it:
Make each percentage point of penalty equal a set amount of health. I was thinking 30 HP per 1% penalty, and then multiply the amount by the number of percentages that are stacked. When I wrote that, I even confused myself, so how about an example?
A basic plate is 2% penalty, and then each percentage point is 30, so 30*2 is 60. Then your total penalty is 2%, so multiply the armor by 1.02, making it 61. The idea behind the multiplier is to benefit the 5% plate, so it will have more health, however slight that health may be.


So it would then look like

STD: 61 HP 2% penalty --> 67 w/maxed skills
ADV: 93 HP 3% penalty --> 102 w/maxed skills
PRO: 157 HP 5% penalty --> 172 w/maxed skills

So now the people that stack those basic plates to brick tank while losing very little speed have been nerfed, and people that are willing to forfeit their speed have been buffed.

Look at it think way: If you stack a basic and an enhanced plate in our current system, you end up with equal penalty to the complex plate, but 214 health, that's 66 more health. A whole complex shield extender more health, and you even end up using LESS PG than a complex plate would, and equal CPU. In the new system, you can stack a basic and enhanced plate to get the same penalty and get 169 health, while the complex gives 172. That 3 HP difference isn't actually that useful, but it makes it so the combination of the other two don't overpower the complex. It makes the complex plate more than just viable, but really useful.

TLDR; Nerf basic and enhanced armor plates, buff complex armor plates.


Also, let me just point one thing out. Some people may be thinking: "If people are willing to sacrifice two module slots, why not let them have the health of one module, even if it is supposed to be better?" The problem is that they are sacrificing two module slots to get the equivalent of two better modules. They are getting the same penalty and armor as a complex armor plate, while also receiving an extra amount of HP that is equivalent to a complex shield extender. So they are receiving the benefits of two complex modules at the expense of the penalty of only one of those modules. I'd hope that isn't working as intended.

Whilst we're at it, I would like to see the lower tier shield extenders be somewhat decent.

Whilst we're at it, I would like to see the lower tier shield extenders be somewhat decent.

I agree with the OP, the HP difference between the Plates should be bigger to encourage the use of Complex a little more. Shield Extenders HP values need to be adjusted as well.

Shield Extenders have the same penalty across the tiers if I'm not mistaken though? Shouldn't Armor Plates have the same then? You know, 3 or 5% speed penalty (or whatever the exact number should be) no matter the tier? Either that or make the penalty on Shield Extenders different across the tiers like with Armor Plates (correct me if that's already the case, I can't remember for sure).

I'm pretty sure the extender penalty is a flat 3% across all tiers. Should be 2%, 3%, 5% TBH. Just to line it up with plates.

Whilst we're at it, I would like to see the lower tier shield extenders be somewhat decent.

We do not need to be weakening HP we need to be increasing it to help fix TTK. Also the OP's idea just gives vets that much more advantage over newberries.

2, 3 and 5% sounds good for Shield Extenders. It really should be the same for Extenders/Plates.

Your Armor Plates HP values looks good too I think, although maybe slightly less HP on the Complex Plates.

Shield Extender HP values could be 33/55/77 or 30/50/70 or something similar.

I'm torn. Double the PG for 35 more hp is lame, but the awesome stats of the plates in the first place is lovely. Like being hugged by a big metal bulletproof teddybear.

...While at the same time, the basic plates are wow? I mean, going from STD to PRO, the stats line up like:

STD: 85 hp 2% penalty --> 93 w/maxed skills 10CPU/1PG
ADV: 110 hp 3% penalty --> 121 w/maxed skills 20/6
PRO: 135 hp 5% penalty --> 148 w/maxed skills 30/12

So you get a STD plate, it gives you awesome HP for a negligible penalty. From STD to ADV, you gain 1% more penalty and 25 more HP. So that's 50% greater penalty and ~30% greater health. ADV plates are useful, but less efficient than STD plates. (I would expect higher tiers to be more or equally efficient, wouldn't you?) Then the big problem. The leap from STD to PRO is a 150% penalty increase, with a ~59% HP increase. So that means complex plates are incredibly inefficient compared to STD plates. Two STD plates give more health and less penalty than complex, and even use less CPU/PG to boot.

So I was wondering what people would think of nerfing basic plates and buffing the complex plates? Here's how I would do it:
Make each percentage point of penalty equal a set amount of health. I was thinking 30 HP per 1% penalty, and then multiply the amount by the number of percentages that are stacked. When I wrote that, I even confused myself, so how about an example?
A basic plate is 2% penalty, and then each percentage point is 30, so 30*2 is 60. Then your total penalty is 2%, so multiply the armor by 1.02, making it 61. The idea behind the multiplier is to benefit the 5% plate, so it will have more health, however slight that health may be.


So it would then look like

STD: 61 HP 2% penalty --> 67 w/maxed skills 6/4 CPU/PG
ADV: 93 HP 3% penalty --> 102 w/maxed skills 9/7 CPU/PG
PRO: 157 HP 5% penalty --> 172 w/maxed skills 15/12 CPU/PG

So now the people that stack those basic plates to brick tank while losing very little speed have been nerfed, and people that are willing to forfeit their speed have been buffed.

Look at it this way: If you stack a basic and an enhanced plate in our current system, you end up with equal penalty to the complex plate, but 214 health, that's 66 more health. A whole complex shield extender more health, and you even end up using LESS PG than a complex plate would, and equal CPU. In the new system, you can stack a basic and enhanced plate to get the same penalty and get 169 health, while the complex gives 172. That 3 HP difference isn't actually that useful, but it makes it so the combination of the other two don't overpower the complex. It makes the complex plate more than just viable, but really useful.

TLDR; Nerf basic and enhanced armor plates, buff complex armor plates.


Also, let me just point one thing out. Some people may be thinking: "If people are willing to sacrifice two module slots, why not let them have the health of one module, even if it is supposed to be better?" The problem is that they are sacrificing two module slots to get the equivalent of two better modules. They are getting the same penalty and armor as a complex armor plate, while also receiving an extra amount of HP that is equivalent to a complex shield extender. So they are receiving the benefits of two complex modules at the expense of the penalty of only one of those modules. I'd hope that isn't working as intended.

EDITS: Theorycrafted some CPU/PG stats for the new plates, increased PG values because armor modules are meant to be PG intensive and lowered CPU values slightly.

You want to buff plate hp while reducing fitting cost? ...Ooooooooooookay.

Basic and Enhanced Armor plates are the best things.

Complex plates aren't even worth it. unless you have no slots.

Does anyone else feel like complex armor plates are meh, while at the same time, the basic plates are wow? I mean, going from STD to PRO, the stats line up like:

STD: 85 hp 2% penalty --> 93 w/maxed skills 10/1 CPU/PG
ADV: 110 hp 3% penalty --> 121 w/maxed skills 20/6 CPU/PG
PRO: 135 hp 5% penalty --> 148 w/maxed skills 30/12 CPU/PG

So you get a STD plate, it gives you awesome HP for a negligible penalty. From STD to ADV, you gain 1% more penalty and 25 more HP. So that's 50% greater penalty and ~30% greater health. ADV plates are useful, but less efficient than STD plates. (I would expect higher tiers to be more or equally efficient, wouldn't you?) Then the big problem. The leap from STD to PRO is a 150% penalty increase, with a ~59% HP increase. So that means complex plates are incredibly inefficient compared to STD plates. Two STD plates give more health and less penalty than complex, and even use less CPU/PG to boot.

So I was wondering what people would think of nerfing basic plates and buffing the complex plates? Here's how I would do it: Make each percentage point of penalty equal to a set amount of health. I was thinking 30 HP per 1% penalty.


So it would then look like

STD: 60 HP 2% penalty --> 66 w/maxed skills 6/4 CPU/PG
ADV: 90 HP 3% penalty --> 99 w/maxed skills 9/7 CPU/PG
PRO: 150 HP 5% penalty --> 165 w/maxed skills 15/12 CPU/PG

So now the people that stack those basic plates to brick tank while losing very little speed have been nerfed, and people that are willing to forfeit their speed have been buffed.

Look at it this way: If you stack a basic and an enhanced plate in our current system, you end up with equal penalty to the complex plate, but 214 health, that's 66 more health. A whole complex shield extender more health, and you even end up using LESS PG than a complex plate would, and equal CPU. In the new system, you can stack a basic and enhanced plate to get the same penalty and get 165 health, while the complex gives 165 as well. The only benefit to using two modules now would be for less total CPU/PG usage. It makes the complex plate more than just viable, but really useful.

TLDR; Nerf basic and enhanced armor plates, buff complex armor plates.


Also, let me just point one thing out. Some people may be thinking: "If people are willing to sacrifice two module slots, why not let them have the health of one module, even if it is supposed to be better?" The problem is that they are sacrificing two module slots to get the equivalent of two better modules. They are getting the same penalty and armor as a complex armor plate, while also receiving an extra amount of HP that is equivalent to a complex shield extender. So they are receiving the benefits of two complex modules at the expense of the penalty of only one of those modules. I'd hope that isn't working as intended.

EDITS: Theorycrafted some CPU/PG stats for the new plates, increased PG values because armor modules are meant to be PG intensive and lowered CPU values slightly.

STD is golden
ADV is......fine
CPX is broken. It needs the speed penalty reduced to 4% and HP bumped to 145.

it is practically 145 (148.5)with lvl 5 plate bonus that you have to be able to use them

3 complex plates is 445.5 hp meant for heavies

1 plate= 2-3 bullets for most guns

plates are a waste of a low slot .....

We do not need to be weakening HP we need to be increasing it to help fix TTK. Also the OP's idea just gives vets that much more advantage over newberries.

That was sort of my point.

I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following:

Moving up in tiers should provide decreasing rewards with prototype gear only giving a small increase in performance but a large increase in price. Spending ISK shouldn't give a player an automatic win button but it should give a performance boost. Most things in New Eden are this way, yes there are few exceptions but for the most part the higher meta gear gives a lower percentage boost in performance.

Although I understand the point you are trying to make, if we were to use that philosophy, we would need to nerf complex shield extenders because they give such a high increase in performance, 100% to be exact. And I definitely don't see anyone complaining about how OP shield extenders are.

This is a bad argument. Its not that Proto shield extenders need to be nerfed, basic and advanced need to be buffed to actually be in line and worth something. 66 vs 22 is too large a disparity in effectiveness. something like 44, 55, 66 would be much better.