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al nize mk2
DUST University
Ivy League
25
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Posted - 2014.03.20 10:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
I understand the OP's point and it's well argued but I disagree with the concept of nerfing the basic stuff and buffing the advance gear.
Truth is Newbies need the basic stuff to WORK - they need all the help they can get just to make sure they aren't annihilated before they can even raise their gun.
The advance gear only becomes affordable after you've been in the game a fair while - and by that point your game skills should be all important. So buffs to the higher end gear just make you even more badass and then you expect a bunch of Newbs to go up against your maxed out warrior with nerfed basic stuff??
Nope - the basic stuff should be there to prop up the Newbies and the advanced stuff should be there to shine up a Proto without making you invincible.
For me - still a terrible player myself - the armour stats are just about right.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2218
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Posted - 2014.03.20 11:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
buuump
need some people who are good at this sort of thing to debate OP!
ak.0 4 LYFE
Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
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ShalaShasta 666
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
Lokun Listamenn
27
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Posted - 2014.03.20 11:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:STD is golden
ADV is......fine
CPX is broken. It needs the speed penalty reduced to 4% and HP bumped to 145.
it is practically 145 (148.5)with lvl 5 plate bonus that you have to be able to use them
3 complex plates is 445.5 hp meant for heavies
1 plate= 2-3 bullets for most guns
plates are a waste of a low slot .....
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zzZaXxx
The Phoenix Federation
243
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Posted - 2014.03.20 13:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
ShalaShasta 666 wrote:zzZaXxx wrote:STD is golden
ADV is......fine
CPX is broken. It needs the speed penalty reduced to 4% and HP bumped to 145. it is practically 145 (148.5)with lvl 5 plate bonus that you have to be able to use them 3 complex plates is 445.5 hp meant for heavies 1 plate= 2-3 bullets for most guns plates are a waste of a low slot .....
I'm aware the skill increases HP by 10%. It's not enough. Three complex plates makes you so slow you can barely move. Even for heavies it's not worth 2% more movement penalty and twice the PG for the extra 27 hp (that doesn't regen). 1% penalty for 33 more HP might be worth it. |
Denesian Morenti
The Neutral Zone
10
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:16:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:We do not need to be weakening HP we need to be increasing it to help fix TTK. Also the OP's idea just gives vets that much more advantage over newberries.
Perfectly said. |
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
5228
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Basic and Enhanced Armor plates are the best things.
Complex plates aren't even worth it. unless you have no slots.
That was sort of my point.
I was just restating
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Sarus Rambo
Direct Action Resources
61
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
The OP doesn't understand the concept of diminishing returns. Proto gear shouldn't just be better in every way to Basic gear.
Shield gear is poorly balance, as it doubles as you go up to proto gear. It should be a linear increase in the effectiveness vs an exponential increase in cost. This is called teiracide, making each tier have pros and cons vs other gear. The armor gear is actually very well balanced. Its tiers specialize in their intended role, they don't just get better without giving up anything.
This sums up 75% of the forum posts.
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
3039
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following:
Moving up in tiers should provide decreasing rewards with prototype gear only giving a small increase in performance but a large increase in price. Spending ISK shouldn't give a player an automatic win button but it should give a performance boost. Most things in New Eden are this way, yes there are few exceptions but for the most part the higher meta gear gives a lower percentage boost in performance.
You and I think one other person have stated this now. "Don't give prototype gear a huge advantage over standard." The thing is, there are no such things as prototype and standard modules, they're complex and basic. It isn't just semantics, let me explain.
If you make the jump from a prototype suit to a standard suit you get nothing but losses, literally the only advantage is lower ISK costs, that is the only purpose of lower tier suits. If you were to make the jump from complex to basic, however, you get reduced effects from whatever module you were using, but also reduced CPU/PG costs, and reduced penalty if the module has a penalty. There is a purpose to lower tier modules, they use less resources so you can make room for a better weapon, or equipment, or whatever it is you need. If tiericide were to happen, complex, enhanced, and basic would all stay, because they all serve a purpose.
Basic plates would still have a lot of use if my proposed changes were to happen. They would provide a low resource, low penalty HP buff, and if you wanted more HP, then you better suck it up and use up more of your CPU/PG, and take a harder hit to your speed.
Although I understand the point you are trying to make, if we were to use that philosophy, we would need to nerf complex shield extenders because they give such a high increase in performance, 100% to be exact. And I definitely don't see anyone complaining about how OP shield extenders are.
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Sarus Rambo
Direct Action Resources
62
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Posted - 2014.03.20 16:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:
Although I understand the point you are trying to make, if we were to use that philosophy, we would need to nerf complex shield extenders because they give such a high increase in performance, 100% to be exact. And I definitely don't see anyone complaining about how OP shield extenders are.
This is a bad argument. Its not that Proto shield extenders need to be nerfed, basic and advanced need to be buffed to actually be in line and worth something. 66 vs 22 is too large a disparity in effectiveness. something like 44, 55, 66 would be much better.
This sums up 75% of the forum posts.
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Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
24
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
I think plate speed penalty should be 3% 4% 5%. That should be the only tweak needed. Though i'm generally against nerfing basic gear, the huge advantage of a basic plate with very little downside and hardly any fitting cost is partly why we see so little diversity in fitting. Unless you have given up the idea of having any speed why fit anything in your low slot other than a basic plate? This needs to change.
As for shields, I'd agree with 33, 44, 66 for the obvious reasons previously stated. |
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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
138
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
I only stack plates on my sniper, who doesn't need to move very fast anyway, and the entire purpose of this is to tank headshots from other snipers, so, yeah, I'm cool with buffing complex plates.
My other dropsuit is a Python.
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zzZaXxx
The Phoenix Federation
243
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
Does the reverse stacking penalty still work on armor? |
Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
3042
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sarus Rambo wrote:Logi Bro wrote:
Although I understand the point you are trying to make, if we were to use that philosophy, we would need to nerf complex shield extenders because they give such a high increase in performance, 100% to be exact. And I definitely don't see anyone complaining about how OP shield extenders are.
This is a bad argument. Its not that Proto shield extenders need to be nerfed, basic and advanced need to be buffed to actually be in line and worth something. 66 vs 22 is too large a disparity in effectiveness. something like 44, 55, 66 would be much better.
That was exactly my point. 
I was saying his philosophy was flawed, and that his argument could just as easily by applied to nerfing shield extenders.
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