DUST Search - For the Love of God. Equipment isn't Getting Nerfed.

Athena Sentinel wrote:

Zahle Undt wrote:

Athena Sentinel wrote:

Vulpes Dolosus wrote:

Forcing logistics into making only one equipment effectively usable is like making assaults and commandos only able to use one type of weapon effectively.

All logis need to be able to use all equipment effectively with bonuses to a specific one. Equipment usage was fine (aside from the scanner) and there was no need for nerfs.

A. "combat" suits have bonus to only one weapon type. So yes they are effective with only one weapon type.
B. They can only use one weapon at a time.

equipment needs a nerf - there should maybe be a max allowed on the field. Or a decrease in the amount of points you get for usng equipment that is not active aka droping spawn points and nano hives.

And we hear from another 'slayer" who can't stand that the number of kills he gets doesn't put him at the top of the board. Sorry you don't think putting uplinks in places they don't get destroyed or spawn people into killing fields isn't important, but it often is more important to winning a game than your gun game.

Anyway, equipment should get a small bonus as you skill into it so dedicated logis that go to level 5 in a piece of equipment get more out of it than a guy with only 1 level in it, just like the guy with level 5 operation gets more out of his exile AR than someone at level 1.

You already get increase use from your equipment as you ugrade it. It lasts longer supplies more people and give you more points. Are you even a logi or just a troll?

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God Hates Lags Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 710	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:09:00 - [1] - Quote Amarr Logis can still drop 3 second uplinks. Caldari Logis can still drop many long lasting amma/rep hives Gallente Logi can still scan down anything other than a Gallente Scout or a cloaked scout of any other variety. Minmatar Logi can still lay down 160 reps per second on a heavy from 40 meters away. It's just that now no SINGLE logi can do all those things. Now every Logi is important (except maybe Caldari, they're not all that useful), every logi is essential. No more domination by the gallante or minmatar logi. This is fair. The only true nerf to equipment was the scanner, which, let's face it - constant 360 degree scans was never working as intended. Other than that equipment stats WITH THE LOGI BONUSES are more or less the same. All of the changes are reasonable and make sense, except for perhaps the rep tool range nerf which was unnecessary, but the repair rate makes sense. Welcome to the new order of Logis. You're important, but you're on a team, no just with the people you support but with your fellow logis as well. This is now a heavily team reliant game. Having a well balanced team is essential. Doubles ISK
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2736	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:11:00 - [2] - Quote Team? I didn't sign up for that. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Mac Dac Wraith Shadow Guards D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 445	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:13:00 - [3] - Quote Well balanced teams? Did you forget Pubs. "We should take care not to make intellect our god; it has, of course, strong muscles, but no personality" Albert Einste
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 151	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:14:00 - [4] - Quote God Hates Lags wrote: Amarr Logis can still drop 3 second uplinks. Caldari Logis can still drop many long lasting amma/rep hives Gallente Logi can still scan down anything other than a Gallente Scout or a cloaked scout of any other variety. Minmatar Logi can still lay down 160 reps per second on a heavy from 40 meters away. It's just that now no SINGLE logi can do all those things. Now every Logi is important (except maybe Caldari, they're not all that useful), every logi is essential. No more domination by the gallante or minmatar logi. This is fair. The only true nerf to equipment was the scanner, which, let's face it - constant 360 degree scans was never working as intended. Other than that equipment stats WITH THE LOGI BONUSES are more or less the same. All of the changes are reasonable and make sense, except for perhaps the rep tool range nerf which was unnecessary, but the repair rate makes sense. Welcome to the new order of Logis. You're important, but you're on a team, no just with the people you support but with your fellow logis as well. This is now a heavily team reliant game. Having a well balanced team is essential. Because the CCp guy incharge is call CCP LOGI Bro. I know we need logi and you should be awarded for being logi. But guys top the charts with 1-5kills.
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 654	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:14:00 - [5] - Quote Forcing logistics into making only one equipment effectively usable is like making assaults and commandos only able to use one type of weapon effectively. All logis need to be able to use all equipment effectively with bonuses to a specific one. Equipment usage was fine (aside from the scanner) and there was no need for nerfs. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 2 Gêå1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 29 Gêå2 1/20
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8242	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:16:00 - [6] - Quote Athena Sentinel wrote: Because the CCp guy incharge is call CCP LOGI Bro. I know we need logi and you should be awarded for being logi. But guys top the charts with 1-5kills over guys with like 20-0...which do you think requires more skill to play? And who should be rewarded the most? Logibro is a community rep, not the guy in charge. And come on... Does it really matter who tops the charts? Scoreboards are meaningless. Level 8 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1460	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:17:00 - [7] - Quote Just a personal thought: No logi should get a bonus to nanohives. Caldari should get get a bonus that allows needles to restore shield HP as well as armor HP on pickup instead. Would make it more interesting, methinks. I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]
Jackof All-Trades The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 354	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:18:00 - [8] - Quote Yeah, you get your normal equipment... after you maxed out your logi skills \|: sorry, but logis have the most SP intensive jobs already, that's really hard to ask for them to spec to level 5 in their suit to get normal equipment, let alone what happens to the rest of their equipment (logis need to use many pieces of equipment, not just their speciality!) "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 151	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:21:00 - [9] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Forcing logistics into making only one equipment effectively usable is like making assaults and commandos only able to use one type of weapon effectively. All logis need to be able to use all equipment effectively with bonuses to a specific one. Equipment usage was fine (aside from the scanner) and there was no need for nerfs. A. "combat" suits have bonus to only one weapon type. So yes they are effective with only one weapon type. B. They can only use one weapon at a time. equipment needs a nerf - there should maybe be a max allowed on the field. Or a decrease in the amount of points you get for usng equipment that is not active aka droping spawn points and nano hives. OR A decrease in the amount of points if placed within a certain distance of other equipment of the same type... what ever it is - equalize logi with combat styles.
Sgt Buttscratch 1377	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:24:00 - [10] - Quote crazy aint it, people are acting like ccp killed their pet cat, then sodomized its corpse. I think the new changes to logistics are fine tbo I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans

Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 579	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:25:00 - [11] - Quote Athena Sentinel wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Forcing logistics into making only one equipment effectively usable is like making assaults and commandos only able to use one type of weapon effectively. All logis need to be able to use all equipment effectively with bonuses to a specific one. Equipment usage was fine (aside from the scanner) and there was no need for nerfs. A. "combat" suits have bonus to only one weapon type. So yes they are effective with only one weapon type. B. They can only use one weapon at a time. equipment needs a nerf - there should maybe be a max allowed on the field. Or a decrease in the amount of points you get for usng equipment that is not active aka droping spawn points and nano hives. And we here from another 'slayer" who can't stand that the number of kills he gets doesn't put him at the top of the board. Anyway, equipment should get a small bonus as you skill into it so dedicated logis that go to level 5 in a piece of equipment get more out of it than a guy with only 1 level in it, just like the guy with level 5 operation gets more out of his exile AR than someone at level 1.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1693	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:26:00 - [12] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Forcing logistics into making only one equipment effectively usable is like making assaults and commandos only able to use one type of weapon effectively. All logis need to be able to use all equipment effectively with bonuses to a specific one. Equipment usage was fine (aside from the scanner) and there was no need for nerfs. Where are you getting that they can't use all equipment effectively? 1.8 Sentinels Damage Efficiency Effective HP
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 654	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:26:00 - [13] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Forcing logistics into making only one equipment effectively usable is like making assaults and commandos only able to use one type of weapon effectively. All logis need to be able to use all equipment effectively with bonuses to a specific one. Equipment usage was fine (aside from the scanner) and there was no need for nerfs. A. "combat" suits have bonus to only one weapon type. So yes they are effective with only one weapon type. B. They can only use one weapon at a time. equipment needs a nerf - there should maybe be a max allowed on the field. Or a decrease in the amount of points you get for usng equipment that is not active aka droping spawn points and nano hives. And we here from another 'slayer" who can't stand that the number of kills he gets doesn't put him at the top of the board. Anyway, equipment should get a small bonus as you skill into it so dedicated logis that go to level 5 in a piece of equipment get more out of it than a guy with only 1 level in it, just like the guy with level 5 operation gets more out of his exile AR than someone at level 1. This would be acceptable. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 2 Gêå1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 29 Gêå2 1/20
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1512	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:37:00 - [14] - Quote We should nerf ALL the Weapons' DPS by 25% and give the Assault suit a 25% DPS increase in ONLY their corresponding Racial Rifle. Same with heavies, the Amarr and Gall heavies will have to suck it up and wait. Then we should nerf biotics and electronics mods by 25%, then give each scout a 25% bonus to only 1 of them. THIS IS THE LOGIC YOU ARE SUPPORTING! STOP IT! Yours Truly, Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 4112	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:42:00 - [15] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Forcing logistics into making only one equipment effectively usable is like making assaults and commandos only able to use one type of weapon effectively. All logis need to be able to use all equipment effectively with bonuses to a specific one. Equipment usage was fine (aside from the scanner) and there was no need for nerfs. Gonna have to disagree here, while yes the equipment is being changed this is in no way stopping anyone from using said equipment effectively, some units are better at certain types if logi work than others but it doesn't stop you from doing their jobs. Having bonuses to a suit's gear is a smart move on the DEVs part, it's called specialization for a reason, no suit should be the best at everything, something the current logi suits are at this moment to devastating effects. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1993	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:43:00 - [16] - Quote The proposed fitting bonus to equipment lets logis use better equipment to compensate for any and all changes. Assaults are getting better at killing and equipment is becoming a bit more specialized. Try to kill it all you want CCP, I still <3 my laser.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1696	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:46:00 - [17] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: We should nerf ALL the Weapons' DPS by 25% and give the Assault suit a 25% DPS increase in ONLY their corresponding Racial Rifle. Same with heavies, the Amarr and Gall heavies will have to suck it up and wait. Then we should nerf biotics and electronics mods by 25%, then give each scout a 25% bonus to only 1 of them. THIS IS THE LOGIC YOU ARE SUPPORTING! STOP IT! Well 25% is obviously excessive, but if you wish to continue screaming and throwing a tantrum, I won't stop you. This is actually very much like how it works in EVE, where weapons are kind of awful unless you use the right weapon with the right ship and skill into it. This is working as intended. It encourages you to stick to a particular race for each fit in order to optimize benefits and minimize the built in disadvantages. Put a Laser on a Caldari ship and people will laugh and snowballs at you. Dust should be similar though perhaps not quite to the same extreme. The point being that the game should strongly encourage you to use the right weapons, gear, and equipment that have synergy with each other, while allowing you to use these items outside the intended role, but at a cost. And yes you do raise the point that much of this balancing is difficult when we do not have the racial versions of everything fleshed out quite yet. However, development should move as far as it can in this direction while those racial variants are being introduced as time goes on. 1.8 Sentinels Damage Efficiency Effective HP
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2738	Posted - 2014.01.22 22:48:00 - [18] - Quote Athena Sentinel wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Forcing logistics into making only one equipment effectively usable is like making assaults and commandos only able to use one type of weapon effectively. All logis need to be able to use all equipment effectively with bonuses to a specific one. Equipment usage was fine (aside from the scanner) and there was no need for nerfs. A. "combat" suits have bonus to only one weapon type. So yes they are effective with only one weapon type. B. They can only use one weapon at a time. equipment needs a nerf - there should maybe be a max allowed on the field. Or a decrease in the amount of points you get for usng equipment that is not active aka droping spawn points and nano hives. OR A decrease in the amount of points if placed within a certain distance of other equipment of the same type... what ever it is - equalize logi with combat styles. Inactive equipment gives ZERO WPs. It must be used by someone to garner a reward! It's USAGE, not deployment that is rewarded. I can stack six hives, but will only get rewarded for what you need, not what I deploy. "Spamming" doesn't do diddly squat for a Logi. You want to limit Logi rewards? Then carry your own damn equipment and use that! Don't deploy on any uplink you didn't personally deploy and don't run to any hive either. Just stroll on den to the nearest SD, wherever that happens to be. If I'm getting points it's because people want what I'm offering. I'm not for forcing them to benefit from it.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1650	Posted - 2014.01.22 23:07:00 - [19] - Quote Sorry, but it IS getting nerfed. Not as bad as some people say it is, but it's definitely getting nerfed. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior lv.1
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 60	Posted - 2014.01.22 23:16:00 - [20] - Quote I guess I will wait and see, it looks like the changes might let logis be logis instead of everyone throwing down equipment and doing a half-assed job of it.

Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 551	Posted - 2014.01.22 23:52:00 - [21] - Quote Let's call the equipment less effective not ineffective. We'll do fine with the new equipment. Scanners were broken. Uplinks were way too fast, essentially killing CRUs and MCRUs. Rep tools and nanohives seemed fine but apparently CCP thinks the bonus would be too much. Results are still out on this one.
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 153	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:18:00 - [22] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: I guess I will wait and see, it looks like the changes might let logis be logis instead of everyone throwing down equipment and doing a half-assed job of it. ^ This is so true. Its half-assed because it is very easy. Noobs love it and defend it because they would be baddies without the easy points. Easy fix - set up 2-3 copy suits add the different equipment changes suits at a SD as you drop spawn point and nano hivers...supply yourself team just like the logi. AND the added bonus of not being nano injected just to die again because 90% of logi are noobs or baddies that can't cut it in combat.
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 153	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:22:00 - [23] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Forcing logistics into making only one equipment effectively usable is like making assaults and commandos only able to use one type of weapon effectively. All logis need to be able to use all equipment effectively with bonuses to a specific one. Equipment usage was fine (aside from the scanner) and there was no need for nerfs. A. "combat" suits have bonus to only one weapon type. So yes they are effective with only one weapon type. B. They can only use one weapon at a time. equipment needs a nerf - there should maybe be a max allowed on the field. Or a decrease in the amount of points you get for usng equipment that is not active aka droping spawn points and nano hives. And we hear from another 'slayer" who can't stand that the number of kills he gets doesn't put him at the top of the board. Sorry you don't think putting uplinks in places they don't get destroyed or spawn people into killing fields isn't important, but it often is more important to winning a game than your gun game. Anyway, equipment should get a small bonus as you skill into it so dedicated logis that go to level 5 in a piece of equipment get more out of it than a guy with only 1 level in it, just like the guy with level 5 operation gets more out of his exile AR than someone at level 1. You already get increase use from your equipment as you ugrade it. It lasts longer supplies more people and give you more points. Are you even a logi or just a troll?
Seigfried Warheit 126	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:23:00 - [24] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Forcing logistics into making only one equipment effectively usable is like making assaults and commandos only able to use one type of weapon effectively. All logis need to be able to use all equipment effectively with bonuses to a specific one. Equipment usage was fine (aside from the scanner) and there was no need for nerfs. Where are you getting that they can't use all equipment effectively? With the super omega nerf to equipment you cant throw the equipment down unless your that race apparently...
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 582	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:41:00 - [25] - Quote Athena Sentinel wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Forcing logistics into making only one equipment effectively usable is like making assaults and commandos only able to use one type of weapon effectively. All logis need to be able to use all equipment effectively with bonuses to a specific one. Equipment usage was fine (aside from the scanner) and there was no need for nerfs. A. "combat" suits have bonus to only one weapon type. So yes they are effective with only one weapon type. B. They can only use one weapon at a time. equipment needs a nerf - there should maybe be a max allowed on the field. Or a decrease in the amount of points you get for usng equipment that is not active aka droping spawn points and nano hives. And we hear from another 'slayer" who can't stand that the number of kills he gets doesn't put him at the top of the board. Sorry you don't think putting uplinks in places they don't get destroyed or spawn people into killing fields isn't important, but it often is more important to winning a game than your gun game. Anyway, equipment should get a small bonus as you skill into it so dedicated logis that go to level 5 in a piece of equipment get more out of it than a guy with only 1 level in it, just like the guy with level 5 operation gets more out of his exile AR than someone at level 1. You already get increase use from your equipment as you ugrade it. It lasts longer supplies more people and give you more points. Are you even a logi or just a troll? Yeah I've been playing logi for a year and a half now in this game. Skilling into equipment lets you use better equipment only it does not improve your usage of that equipment. If I have level 1 or level 5 in nano circuitry my regular nanohives spit out the same amount of ammo at the same rate. If I have level 5 in AR operation my assault rifle has 25% less dispersion whether it is a Duvolle proto or an Exile BPO. See the difference there? What I and others are suggesting is that equipment get some sort of bonus tied to skill. For example: 3% per level to supply limit tied to nanocircuitry would mean if you fully skill into them all your nanohives last 15% longer whether they are standard or allotek proto. Most non logis are not going to spend the skill points if they aren't going to realy use the equipment and the only people I know who are fully skilled into all equipment are logibros so this would still differentiate the classes.
mollerz Minja Scouts 2084	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:42:00 - [26] - Quote God Hates Lags wrote: It's just that now no SINGLE logi can do all those things. Now every Logi is important (except maybe Caldari, they're not all that useful) lolz You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1995	Posted - 2014.01.23 15:21:00 - [27] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Yeah I've been playing logi for a year and a half now in this game. Skilling into equipment lets you use better equipment only it does not improve your usage of that equipment. If I have level 1 or level 5 in nano circuitry my regular nanohives spit out the same amount of ammo at the same rate. If I have level 5 in AR operation my assault rifle has 25% less dispersion whether it is a Duvolle proto or an Exile BPO. See the difference there? What I and others are suggesting is that equipment get some sort of bonus tied to skill. For example: 3% per level to supply limit tied to nanocircuitry would mean if you fully skill into them all your nanohives last 15% longer whether they are standard or allotek proto. Most non logis are not going to spend the skill points if they aren't going to realy use the equipment and the only people I know who are fully skilled into all equipment are logibros so this would still differentiate the classes. I use uplinks on every single logi fit I have. Heavily used skills like that should make you want to skill into them more for any sort of bonus, but I only have my uplink skill at 3 because I only need the r-9's. It's the same for every single other piece of equipment. Try to kill it all you want CCP, I still <3 my laser.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1710	Posted - 2014.01.23 17:14:00 - [28] - Quote Seigfried Warheit wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Forcing logistics into making only one equipment effectively usable is like making assaults and commandos only able to use one type of weapon effectively. All logis need to be able to use all equipment effectively with bonuses to a specific one. Equipment usage was fine (aside from the scanner) and there was no need for nerfs. Where are you getting that they can't use all equipment effectively? With the super omega nerf to equipment you cant throw the equipment down unless your that race apparently... Seems you're incredibly misinformed. All logistics get a massive reduction in the fitting cost of equipment, allowing them to use any equipment easily. Effectiveness of equipment is being reduced. Racial bonuses are boosting specific pieces of equipment back up to previous values +. You're perfectly capable of using a repair tool as an Amarr Logistics, but you just won't be as good as a Minmatar Logistics with it. Just like like the Minmatar Logistics can use the uplink, but not as well as the Amarr Logistics. 1.8 Sentinels Damage Efficiency Effective HP
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 977	Posted - 2014.01.23 17:35:00 - [29] - Quote Logis do need more racial equipment but I do believe people are blowing this out of proportion. Currently, everyone has capabilities with equipment other than actually fitting them on their specific suit. No one's complaining yet shouldn't the logis get a bonus in their racial equipment that makes it even better? If they keep the nerf the way it is for 1.8, the major thing happening is that everyone, except Logis, will be using all of the equipment with the same capabilities. Logis will pretty much be at the same capabilities they are right now with their racial equipment. Essentially, everyone's used to having their equipment work better than what the nerf is suggesting so they're not standing for it. There's no game-breaking concepts going down and in fact, in the long run this could help the game by stopping players from abusing certain mechanics(ex: grenade spamming with a nanohive). Again, I do believe logis need more racial equipment that they're the best at but they can still use other race's equipment for their own. Essentially, the whole game is getting a "nerf" with the equipment so I fail to see a clear argument outside of the lack of racial equipment thing. You'll be able to do your logi duties on the same level as other racial logis, like you currently can do, but you will be specialized in something. But bleh. If you ask a new logi who came in after 1.8 released about the change, it wouldn't matter that much to them. Not because they don't care but because they wouldn't feel the UP-ness that logis are complaining will happen. :/ I'm still gonna need you to supply me with ammo no matter if you're wearing a yellow Caldari medium frame or not. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5858	Posted - 2014.01.23 17:41:00 - [30] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: We should nerf ALL the Weapons' DPS by 25% and give the Assault suit a 25% DPS increase in ONLY their corresponding Racial Rifle. Same with heavies, the Amarr and Gall heavies will have to suck it up and wait. Then we should nerf biotics and electronics mods by 25%, then give each scout a 25% bonus to only 1 of them. THIS IS THE LOGIC YOU ARE SUPPORTING! STOP IT! Yeah only that DPS reduction affects every single unit that tries to use it with the exception of the unit that gets a bonus to it. Isn't that what logis wanted? To be the best units at using equipment? Now you got it without equipment becoming absurdly OP. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos



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