DUST Search - Petition and discucion: Remove flaylock and refund SP

D legendary hero wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

D legendary hero wrote:

Since, it is obvious from the responses of the community that Flaylocks are undesirable it should be removed and SP refunded.

Observe:

Flaylocks are despised by most of the community.
Flaylocks fail to produce consistant results, and fail at their intendd use.
their intended use was obscured because of the nerf.
hitting targets is too hard because of the inconsitancy in splahs damage distribution and small radius
Even prototype flaylocks cannot compete with a milita scambler pistol

The SP refund is deserved because Flaylocks are an entire field of SP that is useless. When tactical assault rilfes where nerfed, no SP was refunded because it was a field of Assault rifles. Therefore, you could simply switch to using std AR, breach and burst without investing more SP.

Since very few if any are using flaylocks on their fits and the FLaylock is getting no kills (CCP has the information and charts and knows these numbers are in the 10s out of the 1,000s of players in DUST) it should just be removed. When the information for flaylocks is reviewed and compared to that of SMGs, nova knives and scramble pistols we can see that it doesn't even make average.

This is a petition and discusion.

I move for us to remove the flaylock and refund SP. All in favor just confirm it.

I'd rather buff the flaylock

100% vehicle damage anyone?

Actually I kid, the original intended mechanics are still not coded in,

Iron wolf saber I tried amn. I really tried to get this buffed over several months. CCP will not buff this weapon. So, why not remove it and give me back my SP?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1346	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:14:00 - [31] - Quote Marad''er wrote: I agree. Infantry splash weapons shouldn't be in the game. Remove mass drivers as well. I'm serious btw hey as long as we get the SP back. flaylock, MD, plasma cannon. I mean i like these weapons but since the community (the side CCP listens too) and CCP obviously hate them, just remove them and refund the SP, aurum and whatever else people used on them. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1346	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:17:00 - [32] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Suture as soon as I get my so back from my lr LR will get buffed again. ut if it becomes apparent that people are too butt hurt to let it get buffed, ill petition for you to get your SP. eventually most of this games unique weapons will get removed and replaced by generic ARs, SMGs, pistols, shotguns and sniper rifles. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3475	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:20:00 - [33] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Flaylock is still fine as a finisher. If you try using it as a primary it fails. It has a niche that is filled a lot better than a lot of other weapons in Dust. Not really a niche if every other sidearm works the same way. My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1346	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:24:00 - [34] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: [quote=First Prophet][quote=Arkena Wyrnspire][quote=First Prophet][quote=Pokey Dravon]No matter . You're asking to remove an asset solely because it's not used very much and is apparently impossible to fix, in your opinion. this is actually the opinion of many people in the community. In addition, the charts that CCP has on how many kills per month and week the flaylock has will be well below the average for sidearms. This is to be expected however , because the flaylock became ineffective. Look at the prenerf numbers, the post nerf numbers, and the current numbers. Then compare this to the prenerf EHP shield/armor values, the post nerf shield/armor values and current shield/armor values. Finally compare this with m/s movement speed values prenerf, postnerf, and currently. You will see that it simply has not kept up. As a sidenote Specialty should not = ineffective. Shotguns are specialty weapons but are great on the right fit (even the wrong fit sometimes) and are used on almost every map. Flaylocks are specialty weapons but ince nerf cannot kill even in their niche area. Everyone throws around the term niche without defining what 'niche' means with regards the flaylock. It has no niche now, because niche requeres that you be good in that area. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1346	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:28:00 - [35] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Flaylock is still fine as a finisher. If you try using it as a primary it fails. It has a niche that is filled a lot better than a lot of other weapons in Dust. What even is 'Finisher' supposed to mean? Seriously? If an enemy has 100 ehp left, what prevents a SMG, scrambler pistol, or anyother gun from killing him or 'finishing him'? hell with 100ehp left you could kill him with a lazer rifle close range...lol hell i could melee someone to death at that point and more efectively so. Nova knives are niche and do their jb well. Shotguns are niche and they do their jobs well. Niche means the weapon kills fast in its area of expertise. This is something flaylocks do not do. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
First Prophet Minmatar Republic 1443	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:30:00 - [36] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Specialty tanks were simple value changes as a different texture, which takes essentially no time at all if your skinning system is done properly Time buffing and nerfing? Well I think there was only 1 pass on them, but the time needed to alter numerical values is far less than the time for conceptual design, modeling, skinning, shading, programming, balancing, and initial testing. Why do you claim its unbalanceable? And why do you claim its so useless? I use it quite frequently on my alt and with great success. Would you rather just toss is away because you don't like it anymore? Don't give up so easily. And you're right, it is a Minmatar sidearm, specifically the Minmatar pistol. Much like the Caldari are getting both a pistol and an SMG in the next release. And the reason Skirmish 1.0 was removed was because there was a fundamental shift in how they wanted that game mode to operate which required it to be replaced. They shifted the way that game mode operates because they couldn't balance it otherwise. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/06/developing-game-mode-variations/ They've done several changes to vehicles, their modules, and their turrets. Sure only that recent pass resulted in an SP refund, but the previous changes weren't done without any thought or testing. I don't claim the Flaylock is unbalanceable or that it's useless. I'm not even saying that they SHOULD remove. I'm only saying that I don't think removing it is out of CCP's consideration. Users found this review helpful.
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1346	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:31:00 - [37] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Spademan wrote: How about you don't take my favorite sidearm away from me? Forum Logic: I don't use this weapon and I don't see a lot of other people using it, so take it out of the game because its presence (that I don't see) is upsetting. Forum logic: Your weapon can't kill me while i have an AR? its balanced. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1346	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:32:00 - [38] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: D legendary hero wrote: hitting targets is too hard because of the inconsitancy in splahs damage distribution and small radius I think you hit on a very important problem with the current gameplay. In the past hit detection was a huge problem. So players turned to splash damage style weapons to make up for it. But now hit detection is fixed (mostly) and now splash damage detection is fubar'd. I've seen people survive point blank grenade explosion with no damage. I've seen the same for flaylocks, mass drivers, small rocket launchers, and other splash effect weapons. It's almost like a wall glitch in nature. Like damage for a splash weapon is applied to an area, but by the time the processors catch up to the idea that an area was supposed to be damaged, the target is someone no longer thought to be in that area anymore. Honestly, flaylocks are not the problem, but faulty splash damage detection is the problem. I suspect that equipment spammage causing lag plays a huge part in all of this too. In the meantime, I'll continue to use and cherish my flaylock, because it is Minmatar and that's why I got it. Not to win with, but because it's hilarious to use against militia tanks as they run from it. ;) this is an important detail too. But i highly doubt CCP will fix this. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12501	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:32:00 - [39] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Since, it is obvious from the responses of the community that Flaylocks are undesirable it should be removed and SP refunded. Observe: Flaylocks are despised by most of the community. Flaylocks fail to produce consistant results, and fail at their intendd use. their intended use was obscured because of the nerf. hitting targets is too hard because of the inconsitancy in splahs damage distribution and small radius Even prototype flaylocks cannot compete with a milita scambler pistol The SP refund is deserved because Flaylocks are an entire field of SP that is useless. When tactical assault rilfes where nerfed, no SP was refunded because it was a field of Assault rifles. Therefore, you could simply switch to using std AR, breach and burst without investing more SP. Since very few if any are using flaylocks on their fits and the FLaylock is getting no kills (CCP has the information and charts and knows these numbers are in the 10s out of the 1,000s of players in DUST) it should just be removed. When the information for flaylocks is reviewed and compared to that of SMGs, nova knives and scramble pistols we can see that it doesn't even make average. This is a petition and discusion. I move for us to remove the flaylock and refund SP. All in favor just confirm it. I'd rather buff the flaylock 100% vehicle damage anyone? Actually I kid, the original intended mechanics are still not coded in, CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1346	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:33:00 - [40] - Quote fawkuima juggalo wrote: ummm..... NO!!! hey a buff would be nice but right now its the only weapon my scout has because its so easy to use (cpu/pg).... edit: plus cmon when you do get a kill, no other weapon makes you feel more skilled. Look, if we got 100 WP or 150WP for getting a kill with the flaylock i'd feel special. But all the extra risk for no real reward is pointless. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice

Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 3144	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:35:00 - [41] - Quote In a single clip the scrambler pistol does more damage to armor than a flaylock. The scrambler pistol does -20% against armor. The more you know. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1346	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:36:00 - [42] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Since, it is obvious from the responses of the community that Flaylocks are undesirable it should be removed and SP refunded. Observe: Flaylocks are despised by most of the community. Flaylocks fail to produce consistant results, and fail at their intendd use. their intended use was obscured because of the nerf. hitting targets is too hard because of the inconsitancy in splahs damage distribution and small radius Even prototype flaylocks cannot compete with a milita scambler pistol The SP refund is deserved because Flaylocks are an entire field of SP that is useless. When tactical assault rilfes where nerfed, no SP was refunded because it was a field of Assault rifles. Therefore, you could simply switch to using std AR, breach and burst without investing more SP. Since very few if any are using flaylocks on their fits and the FLaylock is getting no kills (CCP has the information and charts and knows these numbers are in the 10s out of the 1,000s of players in DUST) it should just be removed. When the information for flaylocks is reviewed and compared to that of SMGs, nova knives and scramble pistols we can see that it doesn't even make average. This is a petition and discusion. I move for us to remove the flaylock and refund SP. All in favor just confirm it. I'd rather buff the flaylock 100% vehicle damage anyone? Actually I kid, the original intended mechanics are still not coded in, Iron wolf saber I tried amn. I really tried to get this buffed over several months. CCP will not buff this weapon. So, why not remove it and give me back my SP? Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1346	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:38:00 - [43] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: In a single clip the scrambler pistol does more damage to armor than a flaylock. The scrambler pistol does -20% against armor. The more you know. Wow... the only redeeming quality of the flaylock ruined. and the funny part is that the scrambler's 'niche' is not armor. So, all around i'd take a scrambler anyday over a flaylock Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 3146	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:39:00 - [44] - Quote Even if it did 100% to vehicles it would still just tickle them with it's pathetic damage model. A maddy would practically be fully repped through all the damage by the time you empty your clip. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 426	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:41:00 - [45] - Quote I can still put it to good use up to this day as a compliment to my scrambler rifle. They are perfectly fine IMO. They just need different rocket types now to make it a versatile sidearm. and as for a refund. lolno. Let the FoTM'ers who spec'd into it keep it.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 3146	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:43:00 - [46] - Quote Greasepalms wrote: I can still put it to good use up to this day as a compliment to my scrambler rifle. They are perfectly fine IMO. They just need different rocket types now to make it a versatile sidearm. and as for a refund. lolno. Let the FoTM'ers who spec'd into it keep it. It's the only side arm that cannot kill someone from full health that isn't a scout or militia in a clip. Why would you want a side arm that cannot kill people on it's own? Why would the flaylock be the only except to all the side arms? Should be nerf every other side arm so they're just as sad as the flaylock? Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1346	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:44:00 - [47] - Quote Greasepalms wrote: I can still put it to good use up to this day as a compliment to my scrambler rifle. They are perfectly fine IMO. They just need different rocket types now to make it a versatile sidearm. and as for a refund. lolno. Let the FoTM'ers who spec'd into it keep it. I specced into it before it was FoTM, and even then it wasn't all that great. Nonetheless, if your going to break something just remove it and give me my SP back so I can spec into galente logistics and get a Rail Rifle like everyone else. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 3146	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:45:00 - [48] - Quote And god forbid the minmatar get a racial pistol that isn't a piece of garbage. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:46:00 - [49] - Quote I would love to use the Flaylock, it is just so much fun, but it is worthless. Fix it, don't remove it.
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1349	Posted - 2014.01.23 20:50:00 - [50] - Quote bump Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice

Tylynn Jade SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 7	Posted - 2014.01.23 20:59:00 - [51] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Flaylock is still fine as a finisher. If you try using it as a primary it fails. It has a niche that is filled a lot better than a lot of other weapons in Dust. Agree I run Imperial Scrambler/Core Flaylock and get paid.......used as primary.......DEATH ARMA FEMINA DAE I'm your DEATH; sleep is the cousin of ME!
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1645	Posted - 2014.01.23 21:35:00 - [52] - Quote How about we just make it better? The thing is, mif you remove the Flaylock, what will you replace it with? The flaylock is the Minmatar Pistol so you need a replacement. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Vag Eye Lenol Planetary Asset Protection Services 20	Posted - 2014.01.23 21:35:00 - [53] - Quote confirmed.
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1350	Posted - 2014.01.23 23:46:00 - [54] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: How about we just make it better? The thing is, mif you remove the Flaylock, what will you replace it with? The flaylock is the Minmatar Pistol so you need a replacement. CCP doesn't want to fix the brokelocks which is why beleive it would be easier to just remove it and refund the SP. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
Spectre-M The Generals General Tso's Alliance 226	Posted - 2014.01.23 23:50:00 - [55] - Quote If/when they buff it, it needs a PG adjustment. Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist Minnmatar in Amarr Armor I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1350	Posted - 2014.01.24 17:13:00 - [56] - Quote bump Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
Espartoi Zero-Day Attack Zero-Day 13	Posted - 2014.01.24 17:44:00 - [57] - Quote Why not tell all Minmatar stuff or the race itself should disappear? Is more simplified. And saying in other post that all splash weapons most be removed is totally ridiculous(i don't want to say is just stupid). Removing grenades mass drivers remote explosives al any item with a radio damage. Am not seeing the weak part of the flaylock in matches is a versatile weapons is not suppose to be to powerful,l scrambel pistol is against infantry you waste of ammo if is used to shot at vehicles is just a different focus weapon. Maybe it could have like a buff not to be removed.
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1350	Posted - 2014.01.24 17:48:00 - [58] - Quote Espartoi wrote: Why not tell all Minmatar stuff or the race itself should disappear? Is more simplified. And saying in other post that all splash weapons most be removed is totally ridiculous(i don't want to say is just stupid). Removing grenades mass drivers remote explosives al any item with a radio damage. Am not seeing the weak part of the flaylock in matches is a versatile weapons is not suppose to be to powerful,l scrambel pistol is against infantry you waste of ammo if is used to shot at vehicles is just a different focus weapon. Maybe it could have like a buff not to be removed. voce fala portugues? Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1132	Posted - 2014.01.24 17:49:00 - [59] - Quote try hitting the target instead of spamming the ground at his feet.
Onesimus Tarsus 949	Posted - 2014.01.24 17:51:00 - [60] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Since, it is obvious from the responses of the community that Flaylocks are undesirable it should be removed and SP refunded. Observe: Flaylocks are despised by most of the community. Flaylocks fail to produce consistant results, and fail at their intendd use. their intended use was obscured because of the nerf. hitting targets is too hard because of the inconsitancy in splahs damage distribution and small radius Even prototype flaylocks cannot compete with a milita scambler pistol The SP refund is deserved because Flaylocks are an entire field of SP that is useless. When tactical assault rilfes where nerfed, no SP was refunded because it was a field of Assault rifles. Therefore, you could simply switch to using std AR, breach and burst without investing more SP. Since very few if any are using flaylocks on their fits and the FLaylock is getting no kills (CCP has the information and charts and knows these numbers are in the 10s out of the 1,000s of players in DUST) it should just be removed. When the information for flaylocks is reviewed and compared to that of SMGs, nova knives and scramble pistols we can see that it doesn't even make average. This is a petition and discusion. I move for us to remove the flaylock and refund SP. All in favor just confirm it. I'd rather buff the flaylock 100% vehicle damage anyone? Actually I kid, the original intended mechanics are still not coded in, Iron wolf saber I tried amn. I really tried to get this buffed over several months. CCP will not buff this weapon. So, why not remove it and give me back my SP? Easy: AUR Free, on-demand Respecs. Because it doesn't matter and no one should care. Matchmaking by KDR proximity. :)



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