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Teilka Darkmist
46
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:42:00 -
[61] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:I'd like to answer post per post, but, you know, I like to be concise. Why on earth would a respec encourage people to leave? Imo, it would encourage people to come back. Everyone, and when I say everyone I mean every single dust 514 player that at least created his character on the first month since official launch already have 11 mln SP at least. If someone left the game for many reasons during these months he would certainly come back and try out new things. In other words, if 1.8 is a success (good hit detection, fun etc.) people will stay and player base will grow. Moreover, you'll finally see more variety on the battlefield: Dust 514 is becoming more and more rock paper scissor, so you probably won't see a swarm of Cal / Gal logis or whatever, but you'll probably see people playing the role they like. I want to be a glass cannon. Okay, go Minmatar assault or any Commando, but mind the commando is really slow. I really like to assault strafing here and there: great go for Cal Scout. I want to be invisible like a ninja : go Gal Scout and so on. If CCP plays its cards right, a respec and 1.8 will be a great opportunity to give Dust 514 the shine it deserves.
PS.
It would be great if they don't limit SP gain per week till a certain cap (let's say 15 mln SP)
I had a character in the beta and my current SP is 9.7 million (and a bit) so your maths is a little off.
That said there is a kind of logic to the rest of your post, albeit a flawed one. You suggest that everyone who had a character made within the first month would come back and I think that's optimistic. A lot of those who left will have moved on to another game and won't look at Dust again as it wasn't ready when they tried it.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Expert Intervention Caldari State
1500
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:12:00 -
[62] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:I'd like to answer post per post, but, you know, I like to be concise. Why on earth would a respec encourage people to leave? Imo, it would encourage people to come back. Everyone, and when I say everyone I mean every single dust 514 player that at least created his character on the first month since official launch already have 11 mln SP at least. If someone left the game for many reasons during these months he would certainly come back and try out new things. In other words, if 1.8 is a success (good hit detection, fun etc.) people will stay and player base will grow. Moreover, you'll finally see more variety on the battlefield: Dust 514 is becoming more and more rock paper scissor, so you probably won't see a swarm of Cal / Gal logis or whatever, but you'll probably see people playing the role they like. I want to be a glass cannon. Okay, go Minmatar assault or any Commando, but mind the commando is really slow. I really like to assault strafing here and there: great go for Cal Scout. I want to be invisible like a ninja : go Gal Scout and so on. If CCP plays its cards right, a respec and 1.8 will be a great opportunity to give Dust 514 the shine it deserves.
PS.
It would be great if they don't limit SP gain per week till a certain cap (let's say 15 mln SP) I had a character in the beta and my current SP is 9.7 million (and a bit) so your maths is a little off. That said there is a kind of logic to the rest of your post, albeit a flawed one. You suggest that everyone who had a character made within the first month would come back and I think that's optimistic. A lot of those who left will have moved on to another game and won't look at Dust again as it wasn't ready when they tried it.
Well, I'm not really optimistic, I'm not saying that everyone will give it another try. But many would, eventually. Don't know where you from, but EU player base, up to now, is 12 -15 italians, 40 french , 20 germans (hyperbole) while in August / September it used to count thousands of active players. That said, people didn't try Dust and then left, but they actually played it for long and then left for different reasons. The first that comes in my mind is framerate lag in PC battles, hopefully fully fixed in 1.8, then FOTMs weapons/dropsuits, bad hit detection etc.
Tank 514.
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5873
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:23:00 -
[63] - Quote
Let's be real, people with 30 million SP already have at least a couple fits optimized completely or extremely close. What a respec would do is allow people in the 5 million - 10 million range the chance to get a fit close to a competitive level.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2940
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:59:00 -
[64] - Quote
It'll drive away old players too. What value is SP if I'm not going to get what I spent it on? It's not something I'm going to spend my time & money on.
No.
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Expert Intervention Caldari State
1500
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:03:00 -
[65] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:It'll drive away old players too. What value is SP if I'm not going to get what I spent it on? It's not something I'm going to spend my time & money on.
You're not supposed to play till you get better gear. You're supposed to play because you're having fun! And you probably don't have fun grinding for the new gal logi and rail rifle prof 5.
Tank 514.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
10265
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:07:00 -
[66] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:It'll drive away old players too. What value is SP if I'm not going to get what I spent it on? It's not something I'm going to spend my time & money on. I'm not sure how someone else rearranging their SP somehow magically changes what you spent yours on.....no one forces you to change your SP allocation. In the perfect world an opt out system would be most ideal, for people who can't be bothered to take a few minutes to sit down and replicate their build, or to write it down before the respec happens. Respec does far less harm than good in an FPS environment, especially when you're altering the suits, equipment, and adding in entire new (old) suits, it's just common courtesy to give not only paying customers, but free customers the ability to spend their hard earned (unless you AFK, you devil you) SP in relation to the new changes and racial parity.
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
3928
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:14:00 -
[67] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:It'll drive away old players too. What value is SP if I'm not going to get what I spent it on? It's not something I'm going to spend my time & money on.
It might drive away 2 or 3 butthurt vets.But it will also bring back lots of old vets that will want to try some of the new stuff.
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
584
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:25:00 -
[68] - Quote
If we are to the point where we have to hope vets have wasted SP in order to somehow help new players we are truly in trouble. New players are screwed for a variety of reasons a respec or not isn't going to make them more or less screwed. If things go right there will be no FotB (flavor of the build, its a more accurate description). I would argue that a respec helps the newer player more because he has more recent SP screwups where as us guys with 20+ million SP have already spent to cover up any SP screw ups.
After about 20 million you are mostly diversifying anyway with some more going into more...accessory skills such as rapid reload or fitting optimization for your weapons etc...
We bitter vets are going to be just fine respec or not, the 2-3 month player will benefit far more than us I would wager |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
2557
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:26:00 -
[69] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:on the flipside, there is probably a good number of newer players who are starting to realise their original choices werent too wise, and this may give them the chance to rectify their character and enjoy it more.
This x1000
Not everybody goes full blown Dust crackhead right away. Some people would rather walk away if their only weapons are plasma cannon and swarm launcher than grind to correct their error. I'd like to see that happen every few releases.
I really don't see FOTM as much of an issue anymore with all the variety soon to be here. There's some incentive now to favor a particular faction and their gear. I think that's another relevant call for a skill respec.
The game has missed some big chunks of content leading up to 1.8. I think a skill RESPEC of some fashion is warranted.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
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Beck Weathers
Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance
376
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:34:00 -
[70] - Quote
Respecs or not Im still going to rage when i get these countless fatal errors |
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Denn Maell
PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives
99
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:37:00 -
[71] - Quote
Either way for me, personally. Of course, I wouldn't have any complaints if CCP announced a full SP delete.
Ha, got you. Everything but my Dropsuit Upgrades tab. Full, lol.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Lazy Scumbag
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
100
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:42:00 -
[72] - Quote
That is exactly what they want. Everyone gets a respect, many dump points into current-build vehicles. Then a patch or two later, guess what, vehicles get nerfed, you feel like you wasted your sp, and everything returns to normal. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3831
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Posted - 2014.01.23 02:34:00 -
[73] - Quote
You do realize that everyone and their mothers save SP to dump it into the next FoTM right?
A FoTM is just that; a Flavor of The Month. So unless you are offering SP refunds every month (which would be idiotic beyond human comprehension), a SP refund would not advocate any FoTM use beyond what would already occur. Plus, the FoTM gear would be nerfed anyways.
Knowledge is power. You think the only thing stopping people from stomping new players is SP? Not even close.
If you put me in the Battle Academy I could probably go 30/0 with a STD suit.
Why? Because again, knowledge is power. If you believe that giving an SP Refund will be the thing that drives new players away, then your sadly mistaken.
Want to know the real problem? Matchmaking.
Next On To-Do List:
Particle Cannons
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Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
151
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Posted - 2014.01.23 02:52:00 -
[74] - Quote
RE: Respec. I don't want one. I have plenty of SP I used in **** I don't use any more with no fucks given. But I can't be assed to remember all the various stats of **** I am using either. If all of that gets wiped out I'm going to be annoyed.
Damn the respec.
Think the game's broke? Go here and fix it yourself
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
2563
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Posted - 2014.01.23 03:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
Gemini Reynolds wrote:RE: Respec. I don't want one. I have plenty of SP I used in **** I don't use any more with no fucks given. But I can't be assed to remember all the various stats of **** I am using either. If all of that gets wiped out I'm going to be annoyed.
Damn the respec.
This has to be the worst anti-respec post of all time. "I'm too lasy to go check what boosts CPU so I'd rather just deal with my wasted SP"
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
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Patrick57
Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention
4175
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Posted - 2014.01.23 03:25:00 -
[76] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:It'll drive away old players too. What value is SP if I'm not going to get what I spent it on? It's not something I'm going to spend my time & money on. It might drive away 2 or 3 butthurt vets.But it will also bring back lots of old vets that will want to try some of the new stuff. Now if only all the old Imperfects and Bounty Hunterz that left would come back, take out the big new corps that are on top, and make the game fun for everyone again :D
Winner of at least 10 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Expert Intervention Caldari State
1506
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Posted - 2014.01.23 03:28:00 -
[77] - Quote
Okay, some of you might misunderstand what's happening. I'm really really happy with my choices: melt people with laser prof 5 for the lulz, melting shield tanked Caldari with my Imperial, crushing Gallente with my Kaalakiota. I wouldn't absolutely need a respec if they were only going to add two or three dropsuits. The problem comes when CCP actually change almost everything you skilled into! I have an Amarr Assault Pro, skilled up to lvl 5 just because I wanted to use my Imperial at its best. But now ccp is changing Amarr assault skill! Another example, you skilled Minmatar Logi because of hacking speed. But they're changing this too!
Tank 514.
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Expert Intervention Caldari State
1506
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Posted - 2014.01.23 03:35:00 -
[78] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:It'll drive away old players too. What value is SP if I'm not going to get what I spent it on? It's not something I'm going to spend my time & money on. It might drive away 2 or 3 butthurt vets.
I would be really graceful if someone leaves
Tank 514.
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Darken-Soul
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
104
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:00:00 -
[79] - Quote
Scar Scrilla wrote:Someone playin for a few months has accumulated a lot of lifetime SP, me myself i specced into stuff I don't use anymore or don't like to use (e.g Proto sniper rifles).
After the respec, ppl with experience in most of the weapons, suits and equipment, ppl that have been there before 1.8, won't spec into stuff they considered useless or not suitable for their playstyle. ( at least I hope they won't).
What does that mean: in my example, i will use the SP formerly invested in sniping and other skills i don't need/like to max out my favourite weapons I use right now, which i make quite some kills with. It will even be more OP (hint) than it is right now. I won't skill into any assault suit anymore, etc, just the stuff I like to use and work for my play styles.
That's actually what I like about a respec. Try new stuff, leave stuff u dont like aside.
TL;DR: From my point of view, a respec will drive away new players even more than right now, cuz they will face vets with 30 Mill SP or more, that invest all their SP in maxin out equipment, weapons and dropsuit they know like the back of their hands, whereas a new player will get devastated (in a wider array of racial dropsuits to choose from) by cloaked proto scouts and crazy buffed Proto Commandos or whatever.
My point is: A respec is gonna help seasoned players and vets more than attracting any new players. New players give a damn if there's a Minmatar heavy or Gallente Commando they can specc into from the beginning after 1.8.
They are too busy not being shot by anything out of 300m.
Respecs are gonna kill this game.
P.S.: that's my PERSONAL opinion, nobody needs to be offended.
o7
I have 36million SP. I have the suits I want and use. I have my core skills maxed. I have every suit to Advanced level and most weapons to level 4 or 5. Some proficiencies maxed. Explain to me how a respec is going to give me an advantage I don't already have.
I am the real Darken
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2947
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:It'll drive away old players too. What value is SP if I'm not going to get what I spent it on? It's not something I'm going to spend my time & money on. You're not supposed to play till you get better gear. You're supposed to play because you're having fun! And you probably don't have fun grinding for the new gal logi and rail rifle prof 5.
If the core gameplay was all there was to go on, most RPGs wouldn't exist.
No.
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2947
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Posted - 2014.01.23 05:01:00 -
[81] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:It'll drive away old players too. What value is SP if I'm not going to get what I spent it on? It's not something I'm going to spend my time & money on. I'm not sure how someone else rearranging their SP somehow magically changes what you spent yours on.....no one forces you to change your SP allocation. In the perfect world an opt out system would be most ideal, for people who can't be bothered to take a few minutes to sit down and replicate their build, or to write it down before the respec happens. Respec does far less harm than good in an FPS environment, especially when you're altering the suits, equipment, and adding in entire new (old) suits, it's just common courtesy to give not only paying customers, but free customers the ability to spend their hard earned (unless you AFK, you devil you) SP in relation to the new changes and racial parity.
I'm pro respec, not anti respec. Check the context of the thread please.
No.
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2947
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Posted - 2014.01.23 05:04:00 -
[82] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:It'll drive away old players too. What value is SP if I'm not going to get what I spent it on? It's not something I'm going to spend my time & money on. It might drive away 2 or 3 butthurt vets.But it will also bring back lots of old vets that will want to try some of the new stuff.
Please consider my post in the context set by the OP. I'm pro respec, addressing the anti respec arguments presented by the OP.
No.
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Scar Scrilla
Cobra Kommando
59
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Posted - 2014.01.23 08:27:00 -
[83] - Quote
Atiim wrote:You do realize that everyone and their mothers save SP to dump it into the next FoTM right?
A FoTM is just that; a Flavor of The Month. So unless you are offering SP refunds every month (which would be idiotic beyond human comprehension), a SP refund would not advocate any FoTM use beyond what would already occur. Plus, the FoTM gear would be nerfed anyways.
Additionally, knowledge is power. You think the only thing stopping people from stomping new players is SP? Not even close.
If you put me in the Battle Academy I could probably go 30/0 with a MLT/STD suit.
Why? Because again, knowledge is power. If you believe that giving an SP Refund will be the thing that drives new players away, then your sadly mistaken.
Want to know the real problem? Matchmaking.
Matchmaking is still a problem, true. I'm afraid it will never be fixed. Actually, in my opinion, it was better before Scotty came around...
"Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"
Scar Scrilla - Proud Commando User & Cobra Kommander
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1076
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Posted - 2014.01.23 09:36:00 -
[84] - Quote
I am still amazed how some people are to dense to accept facts presented on a silver plate, even when they experienced the problems by themself.
the premises here are all wrong and CCP will actually lose players in the long run.
your decisions have zero weight in dust, your decisions are thrown into a lottery pool and if you are lucky then you get what you wanted in the long run. e.g. I invested alot of SP into minmatar logi, to have a speed hacker with the ability to support my squad.
when 1.8 goes live all of it will be gone. no speed hacking any more and all equipment gets nerfed thus you will not reach the same efficiency without a racial bonus to it as you have now. playstyle is completely changed and forced upon me by again stupid dev decisions. the playstyle I decided for will no longer exist in 1.8. it does not only affect my dropsuit skills, every other decision I made regarding my SP was based on the fact that I wanted to play a speed hacking support. my initial decision to play this suit will be null and void in 1.8.
my minmatar sidearm specialist will also be gone.
this does not happen the first time, my scout suit was destroyed by CCP devs already. long time ago scouts were actually not that bad. they were actually able to evade damage with speed. I wanted such a suit that can evade damage with speed at the beginning. I invested in scouts and what happened? CCP decided to "normalize speeds" (atleast how they called it) because they could not fix hit detection in a reasonable timeframe. what they have done is decrease the speed across the board and it hit scouts the hardest. several months later, for more insult, then they added aim assist. my initial decision, why I invested my SP into a scout is again made null and void. I can no longer evade damage with speed, I get hit anyway.
and I am not alone in this boat, many others suffer from this too and a respec is the least that CCP can do. if they do not refund them, sane players will leave not bothering to grind nonstop because of ever changing core mechanics. |
Sir Petersen
Valhalla Nord
483
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Posted - 2014.01.23 10:01:00 -
[85] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote: my scout suit was destroyed by CCP devs already. My scout suit is just fine the way it is. What-¦s wrong with yours and how did CCP destroy it?
My Channel : Valhalla South
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RKKR
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
668
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Posted - 2014.01.23 10:26:00 -
[86] - Quote
On one day guys like the OP will realize that the unbalanced of meta-gear is the problem and not the SP. |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1077
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Posted - 2014.01.23 10:34:00 -
[87] - Quote
Sir Petersen wrote:Jack McReady wrote: my scout suit was destroyed by CCP devs already. My scout suit is just fine the way it is. What-¦s wrong with yours and how did CCP destroy it? I am also amazed about the lack of education in some countries, my it is just me cause I consider basic reading skills as natural.
and btw your comment just revealed that you are trolling and dont play scouts or you just have no clue |
Sir Petersen
Valhalla Nord
483
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Posted - 2014.01.23 10:34:00 -
[88] - Quote
RKKR wrote:On one day guys like the OP will realize that the unbalanced of meta-gear is the problem and not the SP. Stop talking nonsense and take responsibility on how you spend your SP.
A respec is ok if we have a change in the skill tree. Thats it. Should only be used if necessary.
My Channel : Valhalla South
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1077
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Posted - 2014.01.23 10:36:00 -
[89] - Quote
Sir Petersen wrote:RKKR wrote:On one day guys like the OP will realize that the unbalanced of meta-gear is the problem and not the SP. Stop talking nonsense and take responsibility on how you spend your SP. A respec is ok if we have a change in the skill tree. Thats it. Should only be used if necessary.
funny how you evade all valid arguments and throw back some wild assumption. congratulations, your crediblity just went down the toilet (assuming you had some credibility to being with)
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Sir Petersen
Valhalla Nord
483
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Posted - 2014.01.23 10:41:00 -
[90] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Sir Petersen wrote:Jack McReady wrote: my scout suit was destroyed by CCP devs already. My scout suit is just fine the way it is. What-¦s wrong with yours and how did CCP destroy it? I am also amazed about the lack of education in some countries, maybe it is just me but I consider basic reading skills as natural. and btw your comment just revealed that you are trolling and dont play scouts or you just have no clue Yeah girl.. Hate over a videogame. Born to lose..
My Channel : Valhalla South
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