So, gallente get a 3 hp/sec right? That is an advanced module isn't int?

How about the minmatar, they get a free 5% hacking speed on top of the 5%/lvl hacking speed built it right? Due to the lack of stacking penalties, that is an additional basic hacking module. Not to mention 3x complex damage mods.

Scan precision of the caldari (+25%) would require 1 complex and 1 basic module to achieve, along with the basic for scan range.

It being the toughest scout doesn't make it the best scout. Besides which, the issue isn't the comparison of the post-bonus suits, but the incentive to get the specialisation at all.

Extra stamina isn't going to be much use when the distance it can carry you is better covered in an LAV, so people may as well get the light frame.

Also depends on what the basic light suit stats will be. If the basic light suit has 2 EQ slots and the same amount of slots overall, there will be next to no reason to skill into amarr scout. You will be able to fit 1x militia cardia on teh basic light frame and it will be just as good as the amarr scout, except cost about 1.5 mil less sp.

Those are innate suit specs not bonuses. They don't increase with level. All scouts have a 5% bonus to hacking speed why not include that or about the innate built in profile dampeners they all have or the innate shield extender and armor plating they have.

I believe Caldari has faster shield regen and shorter depleted shield delay.

Also why didnt you answer Broonfondle's post?

And since Ghost put forward a good bonus to apply to Ferroscale plates - If you guys agree on it, why dont you find out if possible to implement and rally around that being switched in instead of the current proposed bonus?

Lets try to make progress and not just fight windmills.

Caldari + Gallente scan distance only 1/2 of the passive skill upgrade per level
Min hacking skill equal to hacking passive skill upgrade per level

Amarr skill 5x more than the passive biotics skill upgrade per level

Better analogy

BONUSES ARE EXACTLY EQUIVALENT TO MODULES IN THIS CASE.

Ask yourself, can you duplicate the bonus effect? How can you do that? Oh right, use a module... is there a module that can have the same exact effect? Yes, wow look at that, we can equate them directly.

Since we can, as shown, equate these bonuses with modules, we can therefor also state that the minmatar suit has 5 free modules worth of bonus, and the amarr has 1. This is not equality, and there should be.

In some cases the correlation can be done directly in others it can't. Show me the module that gives a damage bonus to nova knifes ONLY. It doesn't exist.

While NKs are "cute" ("ahh look, he killed that guy with knifes, how cute") it is hardly a viable weapon when measured against the effectiveness of ANY other sidearm.

And i dont know where in the hell you are coming up with six modules. In reality, the Min bonus is worth one complex code breaker and one forth (soon to be one seventh) of three complex damage modifiers., for the worse sidearm in the game none-the-less.

The Gallente get a complex dampener and a basic range amp.

The Caldari get slightly more than a complex precision enhancer and a basic range amp.

Now the Amarr bonus truly is a problem, because it doesn't even equal a basic module.

So, while I do think that the Amarr bonus does need a little extra something to go along with it, I'm not feeling you no the other scout.

Minmatar scout is design for knives,

Gallente: -5% profile, +5% scan range which = 1 prototype (25 CPU) and one basic (12 CPU)
Caldari: -5% precision, +5% scan range which = 1 prototype and little more (25 CPU as well I believe) and one basic
Minmatar: +5% hacking speed = 1 prototype and then some, expensive module forget by how much

so yeah you need to fix some things and also include CPU/PG values

Yeah but now think about it like this and you see how underwhelming that is.

Amarr scout is the slowest scout.

Scouts can run for X seconds on their base stamina.

The Amarr scouts bonus is entirely negated until the scouts his Y threshold where other scouts stamina runs out, and the Amarr scout can keep going.

How you can type is beyond me, since you obviously can't read.

Minmatar scout is design for knives, and in its role it has the equvelent of 3 complex damage mods. Minmatar get +5% per level to hacking (making one complex code breaker) and then they get an extra 10% hacking bonus (5% more than the rest of the scouts), making it almost as good as another basic code breaker (no stacking penalties). Making 5 modules, NOT 6, if you knew how to read you would have read all of this already.

Gallente also get 3 hp/sec armor rep, making an advanced module in addition to the complex and basic ones.

caldari get very close to a complex and an basic with stacking penalties for precision, then a basic for range.

Amarr get less than a basic. Amarr nedd ALOT more than a *little*.

Minmatar have WAY TOO MUCH.

Caldari + Gallente scan distance only 1/2 of the passive skill upgrade per level
Min hacking skill equal to hacking passive skill upgrade per level

Amarr skill 5x more than the passive biotics skill upgrade per level

Better analogy

Minmatar has 4 proto modules in built?
What?

So there's the codebreaker... And...?
The knife damage? I suppose you're comparing that to sidearm damage amps. You know a 25% sidearm damage increase would be worth a hell of a lot more than a 25% knife bonus?

Although I do agree with you, the Amarr bonus is meh.

Wait wait wait wait wait....


DID THEY ADD SPRINT SPEED TO THE AMARR BONUS?

Because that's the only way it would be 5x the passive biotics skill upgrade...

That would be:

5% Max Stamina, Stamina Recharge, and Sprint Speed per level

If you're cool with that, I'll take it.

Also, the Minmatar hacking is 10% on the suit (other scouts gets 5%) and 25% from the bonus. That's more hacking passive.

Ah, you want to compare the suit stats as well. Well you forgot to mention a few things then:

Amarr: 75 (with skills) eHP advantage over Minmatar, 37.5 eHP advantage over Gal/Cal
Amarr: [once equalized - roughly 5 to 1 scale CPU to PG respectively]: 14 more CPU/PG, in favor of PG, over the Minmatar
Amarr: 15 more stamina and 5 more regen over Minmatar, 25 and 10 over Gal/Cal

Did you forget about these, or did they just not fit into your world view?

Jumping/dodging is important too. Slap on another complex regulator and this thing will rarely ever run out of stamina and when it does, it will get it back in seconds.

Right now the 1.8 scouts have a seriously skewed bonus structure. When taking into account the bonuses and translating them into effective modules, you come up with.

Minmatar bonuses = 5 free modules (4 proto type and 1 basic)
Gallente bonuses = 3 free modules (1 proto 1 adv 1 basic)
Caldari bonuses = 3 free modules (1 proto 2 basic)
Amarr bonuses = 0.66 free modules (2/3rds of a basic module)


This means that in order for a basic light frame to equal a minmatar suit it needs to equip 5 modules, and in order for a basic light frame to equal an amarrian scout it only needs 2/3rds of a basic cardiac regulator.

Please make equalize these bonuses.

It minmatar maintains the bonus and all other suits get the standard scout bonus all suits would have 0.05% hack bonus.

Ill state it again without the bonuses applied amarr pulls ahead in terms of built in modules x meta score with gallente being the worst but most spread out.

Agreed. If you want to compare the knife damage to modules, you have to divide the 25% bonus by total number of sidearms (next patch-7)
this comes out to be about 3.57, or slightly more than a MLT damage mod. Therefore, the OP's point is nullified.
Also, the knife is the most situational weapon in the game, making it extremely difficult for anyone except pro ninjas to put the bonus to use

Your regard for the effectiveness/utility of NKs compared to other sidearms is what is out of balance here and needs to be equalized.

Nobody is saying that the Amarr bonus is "balanced", what we are saying is that your analysis of the information is a terrible shambles.

Thankfully you are not a developer and are quite outnumbered by more reasonable voices on this forum, so I have quite high hopes that the suit in question will receive a truly "balanced" rework.

{edit>>> clarical error in the first sentence.

Pick an arguement and stick with it, first it is that amarr suits have inherent bonus that rock the house, of course that was proven to be horribly inaccurate.

Next it is that nova knives suck? So why would you even want that bonus anyway then? Seriously, if nova knives are so horrible, why is there not a HUGE stink about getting that bonus changed?

A couple of things.

One. Stop fighting the scout community. If you weren't so intractable in your views and vitriolic in your posts, you'd notice that the majority of scouts support a change to the Amarr bonus, they just don't necessarily support your argument. I fully support changes in the Amarr bonus, but your approach to pushing for it has been terrible.
Additionally, you're seriously underestimating the benefits of an inherent max stamina and stamina regen boost in a class that is entirely reliant on mobility for survival. I'd happily swap the Minmatar hacking bonus for it.

Two. Stop complaining about other scout suits. The suits are not the same and selectively comparing yourself to everyone else and complaining that you don't have enough does a disservice to both you, and scouts in general. The Amarr scout should be balanced to support a unique and viable playstyle, not to make them the equivalent of everything else, otherwise you'll only represent a racial variant with no real purpose.

Three. people calling for the nerf of other scouts to meet the arbitrary equivalency you're demanding is astoundingly short sighted. Your main concern should be for scouts, as a class, to be viable against medium and heavy frames, not trying to damage other variations within your class.

Four. Focus on solutions. Most of the suggestions that are being put up just make you replicate another suit poorly, or show a poor understanding of the mechanics of the scout. Stop arguing and start think about what would work.

Five. If the Nova Knife bonus is so awesome, then I'm happy to support the Amarr suit getting the same bonus in addition to the existing max stamina and stam regen bonus. Enjoy your 'three complex damage mods' .

Stop focusing on how everyone else has it better than you and try putting forward some reasoned and reasonable suggestions instead. Consensus amongst the community is what shifted the position of CCP in relation to the 1.8 changes. Try working towards that instead of fighting everyone for not instantly and wholeheartedly agreeing with everything you say.

Edited to remove duplication.

Dude, WTF are you talking about. My argument has not changed at all. Why don't you try a little reading comprehension. The simple fact that you are making yourself look more and more like a complete @$$ is more than enough to convince me that it is not at all necessary to argue with you anymore. I'll just let you keep digging yourself into an ever larger hole.

*shakes his head* moron!

Let me put it to you this way, the minmatar scout will be able to hack an objective in 5.85 seconds WITHOUT any modules fitted, the other scouts (the next fastest) will be 8.55 seconds. Oh and on top of this, every time the minmatar suit hits R1, it will be able to do 1,150 damage WITHOUT damage mods. Thats right, the minnie scout with no damage mods will do the same amount of damage as the plasma cannon.

It was OBVIOUS that the tank boost combined with neutering AV in this game was going to produce an imbalance like we have now...

Making one suit able to cloak, able to do well over 1200 damage in one button push, and able to hack in under 6 seconds without mods, is a recipe for FotM OP suit.

Making a suit run for 4 more seconds and thats pretty much it.... well that is all kinds of crap.

You mean, every time the Minmatar scout successfully uses stealth to approach an opponent, holds R1 for a moment, and the opponent doesn't move literally at all (especially backpedalling) then he gets to do 1150 damage. Don't forget the little details like "NK's are complete garbage unless the stars align through sheer willpower on the Scout's part."

I honestly am not understanding what you are attempting to convey with this line. If you are referring to the current state of a perceived "imbalance" with vehicles, had you paid attention to what the DEVs had said prior to the changes to vehicles in 1.7, you would now that the DEVs clearly stated tha the 1.7 changes were just the "first" necessary step in a complete vehicle rebalance, and tha we, as a community, would more than likely not enjoy this first round of the rebalance, for the majority. This was done in order to gather adequate information necessary to creat a truly balanced final product - one of the most major things being price (more tanks on the field equals more data to mine).

You want to worry about something you should be worrying about someone like me who already know how to use the Gal scout.

Why don't you try propose a change to this suit and stick it in your OP. I honestly don't know if ulyou have yet proposed a change, because I got tired of reading your drivel on the first page.