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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
995
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Posted - 2014.01.20 21:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:They aren't MEANT to be equal. Each race has different strengths and weaknesses. The Amarr, for example, are aimed more towards heavies. Scouts are more in the Gallente style doctrine.
Also, please don't make the mistake that bonuses are equivalent to modules. Bonuses are there to help you see what the intended use of a suit is and to specialise it to that role. Just like they are with ships in eve.
The whole point is that you need a range of suits, fits and tactics to be most effective on the battlefield. BONUSES ARE EXACTLY EQUIVALENT TO MODULES IN THIS CASE. Ask yourself, can you duplicate the bonus effect? How can you do that? Oh right, use a module... is there a module that can have the same exact effect? Yes, wow look at that, we can equate them directly. Since we can, as shown, equate these bonuses with modules, we can therefor also state that the minmatar suit has 5 free modules worth of bonus, and the amarr has 1. This is not equality, and there should be.
In some cases the correlation can be done directly in others it can't. Show me the module that gives a damage bonus to nova knifes ONLY. It doesn't exist.
While NKs are "cute" ("ahh look, he killed that guy with knifes, how cute") it is hardly a viable weapon when measured against the effectiveness of ANY other sidearm.
And i dont know where in the hell you are coming up with six modules. In reality, the Min bonus is worth one complex code breaker and one forth (soon to be one seventh) of three complex damage modifiers., for the worse sidearm in the game none-the-less.
The Gallente get a complex dampener and a basic range amp.
The Caldari get slightly more than a complex precision enhancer and a basic range amp.
Now the Amarr bonus truly is a problem, because it doesn't even equal a basic module.
So, while I do think that the Amarr bonus does need a little extra something to go along with it, I'm not feeling you no the other scout.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
995
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:They aren't MEANT to be equal. Each race has different strengths and weaknesses. The Amarr, for example, are aimed more towards heavies. Scouts are more in the Gallente style doctrine.
Also, please don't make the mistake that bonuses are equivalent to modules. Bonuses are there to help you see what the intended use of a suit is and to specialise it to that role. Just like they are with ships in eve.
The whole point is that you need a range of suits, fits and tactics to be most effective on the battlefield. BONUSES ARE EXACTLY EQUIVALENT TO MODULES IN THIS CASE. Ask yourself, can you duplicate the bonus effect? How can you do that? Oh right, use a module... is there a module that can have the same exact effect? Yes, wow look at that, we can equate them directly. Since we can, as shown, equate these bonuses with modules, we can therefor also state that the minmatar suit has 5 free modules worth of bonus, and the amarr has 1. This is not equality, and there should be. In some cases the correlation can be done directly in others it can't. Show me the module that gives a damage bonus to nova knifes ONLY. It doesn't exist. While NKs are "cute" ("ahh look, he killed that guy with knifes, how cute") it is hardly a viable weapon when measured against the effectiveness of ANY other sidearm. And i dont know where in the hell you are coming up with six modules. In reality, the Min bonus is worth one complex code breaker and one forth (soon to be one seventh) of three complex damage modifiers., for the worse sidearm in the game none-the-less. The Gallente get a complex dampener and a basic range amp. The Caldari get slightly more than a complex precision enhancer and a basic range amp. Now the Amarr bonus truly is a problem, because it doesn't even equal a basic module. So, while I do think that the Amarr bonus does need a little extra something to go along with it, I'm not feeling you no the other scout. How you can type is beyond me, since you obviously can't read. Minmatar scout is design for knives, and in its role it has the equvelent of 3 complex damage mods. Minmatar get +5% per level to hacking (making one complex code breaker) and then they get an extra 10% hacking bonus (5% more than the rest of the scouts), making it almost as good as another basic code breaker (no stacking penalties). Making 5 modules, NOT 6, if you knew how to read you would have read all of this already. Gallente also get 3 hp/sec armor rep, making an advanced module in addition to the complex and basic ones. caldari get very close to a complex and an basic with stacking penalties for precision, then a basic for range. Amarr get less than a basic. Amarr nedd ALOT more than a *little*. Minmatar have WAY TOO MUCH.
Ah, you want to compare the suit stats as well. Well you forgot to mention a few things then:
Amarr: 75 (with skills) eHP advantage over Minmatar, 37.5 eHP advantage over Gal/Cal
Amarr: [once equalized - roughly 5 to 1 scale CPU to PG respectively]: 14 more CPU/PG in favor of PG. over the Minmatar
Amarr: 15 more stamina and 5 more regen over Minmatar, 25 and 10 over Gal/Cal
Did you forget about these, or did they just not fit into your world view?
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
996
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Posted - 2014.01.21 03:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Your regard for the effectiveness/utility of NKs compared to other sidearms is what is out of balance here and needs to be equalized.
Nobody is saying that the Amarr bonus is "balanced", what we are saying is that your analysis of the information is a terrible shambles.
Thankfully you are not a developer and are quite outnumbered by more reasonable voices on this forum, so I have quite high hopes that the suit in question will receive a truly "balanced" rework.
{edit>>> clarical error in the first sentence.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
996
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 03:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Your regard for the effectiveness/utility of NKs compared to other sidearms is what is out of balance here and needs to be equalized.
Nobody is saying that the Amarr bonus is "balanced", what we are saying is that your analysis of the information is a terrible shambles.
Thankfully you are not a developer and are quite outnumbered by more reasonable voices on this forum, so I have quite high hopes that the suit in question will receive a truly "balanced" rework.
{edit>>> clarical error in the first sentence. Pick an arguement and stick with it, first it is that amarr suits have inherent bonus that rock the house, of course that was proven to be horribly inaccurate. Next it is that nova knives suck? So why would you even want that bonus anyway then? Seriously, if nova knives are so horrible, why is there not a HUGE stink about getting that bonus changed?
Dude, WTF are you talking about. My argument has not changed at all. Why don't you try a little reading comprehension. The simple fact that you are making yourself look more and more like a complete @$$ is more than enough to convince me that it is not at all necessary to argue with you anymore. I'll just let you keep digging yourself into an ever larger hole.
*shakes his head* moron!
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
996
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 04:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:It was OBVIOUS that the tank boost combined with neutering AV in this game was going to produce an imbalance like we have now...
I honestly am not understanding what you are attempting to convey with this line. If you are referring to the current state of a perceived "imbalance" with vehicles, had you paid attention to what the DEVs had said prior to the changes to vehicles in 1.7, you would now that the DEVs clearly stated tha the 1.7 changes were just the "first" necessary step in a complete vehicle rebalance, and tha we, as a community, would more than likely not enjoy this first round of the rebalance, for the majority. This was done in order to gather adequate information necessary to creat a truly balanced final product - one of the most major things being price (more tanks on the field equals more data to mine).
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Making one suit able to cloak, able to do well over 1200 damage in one button push, and able to hack in under 6 seconds without mods, is a recipe for FotM OP suit.
You want to worry about something you should be worrying about someone like me who already know how to use the Gal scout.
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Making a suit run for 4 more seconds and thats pretty much it.... well that is all kinds of crap.
Why don't you try propose a change to this suit and stick it in your OP. I honestly don't know if ulyou have yet proposed a change, because I got tired of reading your drivel on the first page.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
996
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 05:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Oh I am going to need a source for your CCP (you know, that they knew it was going to be a quagmire) stuff there. It seems kind of odd that this was said at some point, but has never once been brought up during all of the vehicle bitching that has been going on.
Well, I don't keep tabs on blue tags so you'll just have to wait until someone comes along that does.
I'll take a look at your proposed changes in a minute. I'm going outside to smoke and take a break for a few minutes. And for god's sake put it in your OP, not buried four pages in.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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