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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1539
   |
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:11:00 -
[61] - Quote
Dev tools don't actually help you reproduce a problem. They help you once you've reproduced the problem and let you start to zero in on what is actually causing it. I've been a developer for 8 years now, mostly in healthcare which, as you can imagine, is the most anti-bug sector you can be in. If something doesn't work right people start flipping tables.
People will report a bug, but if they can't give us the steps to reproduce it all we've got is "there's a problem". You can try screwing around in the app to reproduce it, but that's just a blind, dumb luck search. Until the developer can actually see it happen on his machine there isn't a damn thing that can be done to fix it. There is no such thing as a tool that reproduces a bug that the steps are not known for. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
807
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:13:00 -
[62] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:I wanted to stay away from posting, but I just have to step in on CCPs side.
To say they don't perform Q/A is bull, and the nature of certain bugs makes them VERY hard to track down.
Yes, they have dev kits, but there are certain aspects CCP simply can't replicate and accurately simulate.
(The entire Matchmaking hick up during the launch of 1.4 is proof of that).
You also have to realice that ALL reported bugs get prioritized with criticality and priority, which depends on the severity, reproducibility and available workarounds.
The rail bug is probably far down in the backlog.
I have to say that taken into account the size of the company, the fact that this is their first FPS, their first Console game, and is currently undergoing a huge reorganization (since Uprising) and lastly a new EP, I think CCP has done outstanding work with the level of progress we have made since Uprising came out.
i have yet to see a major gamebreaking bug fixed without direct player intervention.
that PC lag bomb sound glitch was int he game for MONTHS being abused an exploited and despite probably thousands and thousands of bug reports on the subject someone else had to come in an spell every tiny detail out for it to be fixed....
granted after that it was indeed fixed in less then 48 hours after the problem was handed out on a silver platter.
basically if we dont specifially provide step by step production results with vedeo to back it up it will go unchecked forever. meaning anything we dont have the capabilities to reproduce will be in the game for a very very very long time, always pushed on the backburner by the things we as players CAN reproduce. |
Krasymptimo
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
91
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
If the bug happens only on occasion and doesn't break the game, why should it be given such a high priority over things such as more game content and game balance? |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
807
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:19:00 -
[64] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:Dev tools don't actually help you reproduce a problem. They help you once you've reproduced the problem and let you start to zero in on what is actually causing it. I've been a developer for 8 years now, mostly in healthcare which, as you can imagine, is the most anti-bug sector you can be in. If something doesn't work right people start flipping tables.
People will report a bug, but if they can't give us the steps to reproduce it all we've got is "there's a problem". You can try screwing around in the app to reproduce it, but that's just a blind, dumb luck search. Until the developer can actually see it happen on his machine there isn't a damn thing that can be done to fix it. There is no such thing as a tool that reproduces a bug that the steps are not known for.
my best friend does QA for a firm dealing with healthcare software... it is tougher then you say...
im very unclear with explaining things... its simply not a strong suit of mine.
so analagy time, if there was a program crippling bug in some software your company had already distributed... but none of your customers could reproduce it or give you any idea whatsoever on how or why it was happening... would it be acceptable in your firm to let that bug run rampant for months untill one of your customers managed to give you step by step instructions?
or would you have somebody pulling every trick you guys know trying to find any way to replicate it so you could fix it as soon as possable?
i am perhaps being a tad unreasonable i am aware of that, its just that the feeling is there that if the players dont intercede and do the job of QA then very little will ever get fixed... |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1540
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:29:00 -
[65] - Quote
If the bug was crippling then we'd be able to reproduce it, and the logs would show clues that lead to the source of the problem. If the problem can't be reproduced then it is, by definition, not crippling. |
Thumb Green
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
675
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:32:00 -
[66] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:There is no such thing as a tool that reproduces a bug that the steps are not known for.
True, but there is a tool that allows them to watch the code while it's running and when something randomly happens that isn't supposed to they can stop the program and analyze that portion of the code to see what's up. Of course the problem might not be with that portion of the code itself but it's a starting point and if they don't find the problem there they can look into other portions of code that ties into that portion.
However it also extends beyond bugs into balance issues; take the current AV vs tank imbalance, how the fck did that slip by Q/A?
CCP: Is it the most asinine way possible to do this? Yes. Then that's how we're doing it.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
829
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:32:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Dont believe me? read through the bug report section. here all even provide an example https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1567011#post1567011see that? it means that CCP doesnt internally have the capabilities to test their own systems, or at the very least doesnt have the resources to dedicate to it. THIS is why the game is so buggy, THIS is why massive imbalance occurs. This means that the only way to really rectify this would be to create our own testing corp/group and end up doing the work they should already be doing but for free. This game doesnt have the resources to be anything but a beta and we are still in truth beta testers. So guys what do you all think of this, is it worth mustering up the resources to test things? is there a valid reason CCP cant manage to scrape together the resources to test their own things? Sorry, but not true. We have an internal QA team, and also run daily playtests on current builds of the game. What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur. Community feedback and videos demonstrating the particular circumstances around issues help us reproduce and fix them. In reference to the issue that you linked - we managed to isolate this issue and hotfixed a solution a couple of days back. :)
Before you launch massive rebalancing and content additions into general population....
Why not hold a competitive event for 1-2 days that can be monitored inhouse on the new content? The amount of bugs and problems we could encounter during this process would be immense..
Not to mention a majority of us have capture cards and would use it for you guys have you involved us in the testing process much more then going over whats written down on paper.
Because no matter how much the community get's this cop out, We saw what happened to a Militia nitrous module that should of been thoroughly used during the inhouse testing and Q&A.
Ive been here since beta and can come up with even more embarrising oopsies that are extremely obvious, You guys can't do everything and in majority aren't as intimate with actually PLAYING IT as us.
We are a massive asset for retaining players in massive patch releases, and are crying to do some kind of pre testing so our corporation activity numbers and peer's stop suffering and quitting over the lack of insight or understanding.
Please please stop using your active general population as guinea pigs that you can toss away after done testing with. Implement something.... anything... |
D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1311
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:33:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Dont believe me? read through the bug report section. here all even provide an example https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1567011#post1567011see that? it means that CCP doesnt internally have the capabilities to test their own systems, or at the very least doesnt have the resources to dedicate to it. THIS is why the game is so buggy, THIS is why massive imbalance occurs. This means that the only way to really rectify this would be to create our own testing corp/group and end up doing the work they should already be doing but for free. This game doesnt have the resources to be anything but a beta and we are still in truth beta testers. So guys what do you all think of this, is it worth mustering up the resources to test things? is there a valid reason CCP cant manage to scrape together the resources to test their own things? Sorry, but not true. We have an internal QA team, and also run daily playtests on current builds of the game. What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur. Community feedback and videos demonstrating the particular circumstances around issues help us reproduce and fix them. In reference to the issue that you linked - we managed to isolate this issue and hotfixed a solution a couple of days back. :)
lolz you just pwn'd the OP
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça
I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
808
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:33:00 -
[69] - Quote
Krasymptimo wrote:If the bug happens only on occasion and doesn't break the game, why should it be given such a high priority over things such as more game content and game balance?
ill give an example, rendering.
from 1.0-1.7 rendering for tanks was terrible.
since it only effected a small portion of the player base and because rendering was done differently to move resources to other areas like art assets and other performance imporvements fixing rendering was palced on the sidelines with a low priority.
what happened was the when rebalancing the tanks all the data they had did not take into concideration that infantry AV was nearly always invisable to the tanks they were assaulting, making them apear weaker on paper then they were in reality.
as a result now that rendering is fixed the changes they made to AV were too far making tanks way to overpowered because the changes were made without the concideration of how much the invisability of infantry AV effected teh game.
a perfect example of what happens when you try to place game content and balance on a higher pedestal then bugs. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
808
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:35:00 -
[70] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:If the bug was crippling then we'd be able to reproduce it, and the logs would show clues that lead to the source of the problem. If the problem can't be reproduced then it is, by definition, not crippling.
so a bug that would cause your weapon to overheat, not fire, or randomly fire without you pulling the trigger is in no way crippling tot he person using it? (or have your shots shoot right through what your shooting at....) |
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1540
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:36:00 -
[71] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:There is no such thing as a tool that reproduces a bug that the steps are not known for. True, but there is a tool that allows them to watch the code while it's running and when something randomly happens that isn't supposed to they can stop the program and analyze that portion of the code to see what's up. Of course the problem might not be with that portion of the code itself but it's a starting point and if they don't find the problem there they can look into other portions of code that ties into that portion. However it also extends beyond bugs into balance issues; take the current AV vs tank imbalance, how the fck did that slip by Q/A?
That tool is what I was talking about when I said "They help you once you've reproduced the problem and let you start to zero in on what is actually causing it". You can't step into the code where the bug is occurring if you can't make the bug happen. Without the steps to reproduce you're not going anywhere. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
808
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:38:00 -
[72] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:There is no such thing as a tool that reproduces a bug that the steps are not known for. True, but there is a tool that allows them to watch the code while it's running and when something randomly happens that isn't supposed to they can stop the program and analyze that portion of the code to see what's up. Of course the problem might not be with that portion of the code itself but it's a starting point and if they don't find the problem there they can look into other portions of code that ties into that portion. However it also extends beyond bugs into balance issues; take the current AV vs tank imbalance, how the fck did that slip by Q/A? That tool is what I was talking about when I said "They help you once you've reproduced the problem and let you start to zero in on what is actually causing it". You can't step into the code where the bug is occurring if you can't make the bug happen. Without the steps to reproduce you're not going anywhere.
i know what your talking about i do.
i placed a little to much emphasis ont hose tools.
but when your put into a situation where you dont have replication instructions those tools that you have that the clients do not HAVE to be helpful in some way, and you wouldnt retain much buisness if your responce to thsoe situations was telling the customer you cant do anything untill THEY figure out whats causing the problem.... |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1540
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:38:00 -
[73] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:If the bug was crippling then we'd be able to reproduce it, and the logs would show clues that lead to the source of the problem. If the problem can't be reproduced then it is, by definition, not crippling. so a bug that would cause your weapon to overheat, not fire, or randomly fire without you pulling the trigger is in no way crippling tot he person using it? (or have your shots shoot right through what your shooting at....)
It's annoying to you, but the game is still running and 99.9% of the other people playing at that moment are having no problems with their gun not firing. You're falling into the user reporting a bug trap of, "It happened to me therefore this is the most important thing ever".
Seriously, go work in software development for a while. It's absurd. Users will report bugs and if they're allowed to rate the severity every last bug will be critical or at the very least moderate, even if it is something that happened once to one user and didn't stop anything from finishing. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
808
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:42:00 -
[74] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:If the bug was crippling then we'd be able to reproduce it, and the logs would show clues that lead to the source of the problem. If the problem can't be reproduced then it is, by definition, not crippling. so a bug that would cause your weapon to overheat, not fire, or randomly fire without you pulling the trigger is in no way crippling tot he person using it? (or have your shots shoot right through what your shooting at....) It's annoying to you, but the game is still running and 99.9% of the other people playing at that moment are having no problems with their gun not firing. You're falling into the user reporting a bug trap of, "It happened to me therefore this is the most important thing ever". Seriously, go work in software development for a while. It's absurd. Users will report bugs and if they're allowed to rate the severity every last bug will be critical or at the very least moderate, even if it is something that happened once to one user and didn't stop anything from finishing.
you are correct i do have bias in that reguard. but i use it as an example becuase its the matter im most familiar with not because i believe its truly game crippling, its anoying yes, but you are correct it is not really all that high on the priorities list and if i were them it still wouldnt be very high on my list of things to fix.
that is an excellent point.
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Thumb Green
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
675
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:42:00 -
[75] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:There is no such thing as a tool that reproduces a bug that the steps are not known for. True, but there is a tool that allows them to watch the code while it's running and when something randomly happens that isn't supposed to they can stop the program and analyze that portion of the code to see what's up. Of course the problem might not be with that portion of the code itself but it's a starting point and if they don't find the problem there they can look into other portions of code that ties into that portion. However it also extends beyond bugs into balance issues; take the current AV vs tank imbalance, how the fck did that slip by Q/A? That tool is what I was talking about when I said "They help you once you've reproduced the problem and let you start to zero in on what is actually causing it". You can't step into the code where the bug is occurring if you can't make the bug happen. Without the steps to reproduce you're not going anywhere.
Exactly but my point is that many of these bugs happen randomly with no way to reliably reproduce them at will. Thus the only way to find the problem is to watch the code when these bugs randomly happen. Most of them happen frequently enough if you play the game for more than an hour for Q/A to spot them but as a player I have no way of doing that.
CCP: Is it the most asinine way possible to do this? Yes. Then that's how we're doing it.
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1540
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:43:00 -
[76] - Quote
They're really not helpful at all until you can observe the problem happening. Quite often a "bug" isn't actually a bug, but a problem with the user's environment. I could start my debugger and run through the app all day long. If I did run into the bug then yeah, I've got what I need to get started. The problem is you're expecting the tools to also help you get through that reproduction step. It doesn't work and it can't work. If someone ever builds a tool that can do that for us then we've basically created skynet and are ready to let autonomous computers solve all the world's problems. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
829
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:48:00 -
[77] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:If the bug was crippling then we'd be able to reproduce it, and the logs would show clues that lead to the source of the problem. If the problem can't be reproduced then it is, by definition, not crippling. so a bug that would cause your weapon to overheat, not fire, or randomly fire without you pulling the trigger is in no way crippling tot he person using it? (or have your shots shoot right through what your shooting at....) It's annoying to you, but the game is still running and 99.9% of the other people playing at that moment are having no problems with their gun not firing. You're falling into the user reporting a bug trap of, "It happened to me therefore this is the most important thing ever". Seriously, go work in software development for a while. It's absurd. Users will report bugs and if they're allowed to rate the severity every last bug will be critical or at the very least moderate, even if it is something that happened once to one user and didn't stop anything from finishing.
Software glitches and programming bugs? sure... Fatal errors? we take them kinda fine i think.
Collision mechanics? To the point where every mercenary after 2 years is still getting stuck on terrain... Hills? F* that could be glitched stuck there for a minute.. Jumping a railing? How about a slight level change step? Getting stuck on fellow mercenaries? walls? you name it?
Like really? was aim assist being broken and re done 3 separate times taking up massive amounts of CCP Wolfman's team time. For what? To kill speed tanking and veteran player counts?
Meanwhile Aiming and HD is still horrid, customization and UI... 1 improvement in 6 months...
Frame rates? Laugh......
Collisions mechanics? Laugh... Physics of LAV? laugh.....
These are all fundamental things on every game reviewers mouth... and they have been fundamental issues for 8 months to 2 years.
At some point the fact that someone is spewing bullshit to please people who don't know better becomes obvious.
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
809
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:49:00 -
[78] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:They're really not helpful at all until you can observe the problem happening. Quite often a "bug" isn't actually a bug, but a problem with the user's environment. I could start my debugger and run through the app all day long. If I did run into the bug then yeah, I've got what I need to get started. The problem is you're expecting the tools to also help you get through that reproduction step. It doesn't work and it can't work. If someone ever builds a tool that can do that for us then we've basically created skynet and are ready to let autonomous computers solve all the world's problems.
i overestimated the abilities of the tools available to the QA department then it seems.
but there is still the matter of QA basically ignoring anything they arnt handed replication instructions to (and some things they are handed instructions for)
but we are also in a situation where top corps are basically using these bugs as weapons and hording the secrets to their exsistance and replication for an advantage in game.
i have over-reacted a bit here i admit.
it is frusterating as a customer however when the only way i can even make headway on a bug is to do the QA myself and hand the problems with their solutions on a silver platter to the developer if i ever want them to even be awknowledged as bugs. |
Thumb Green
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
675
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:57:00 -
[79] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote: The problem is you're expecting the tools to also help you get through that reproduction step. .
No I'm not, because like I've said these bugs are happening randomly; there is no real reproduction step other than playing the game and waiting for these randomly occurring bugs to randomly occur. So what I expect them to play the game and when the bug randomly happens to stop the program and to look at whats happening in the code. Like I said they happen frequently enough during play that Q/A should be able to spot them.
And again like I said before, it goes beyond just bugs into balance issue like the current AV vs tank imbalance. Q/A should have caught that bs way before 1.7 was deployed.
CCP: Is it the most asinine way possible to do this? Yes. Then that's how we're doing it.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
829
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote: The problem is you're expecting the tools to also help you get through that reproduction step. . No I'm not, because like I've said these bugs are happening randomly; there is no real reproduction step other than playing the game and waiting for these randomly occurring bugs to randomly occur. So what I expect them to play the game and when the bug randomly happens to stop the program and to look at whats happening in the code. Like I said they happen frequently enough during play that Q/A should be able to spot them. And again like I said before, it goes beyond just bugs into balance issue like the current AV vs tank imbalance. Q/A should have caught that bs way before 1.7 was deployed.
How about the militia Nitrous and its unreal statistics. Out of all items used in the 1.7 patch testing that should of been one used a bit...
And? lol words are empty when actions disproves them. |
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DeeJay One
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
191
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 17:53:00 -
[81] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:
isolating things isnt something a player can do for the most part on a live server with payer interfearance, its soething that is done in a controlled environment where you can carefully eliminate variables without other players wandering around muching up the tests or introducing more variables as your trying to narrow them down.
Problem is bugs in a controlled environment usually don't happen. You can write/do as many tests as you wish, but the users will always find something that is broken, exploitable etc.
Especially that some of these bugs happen only within certain conditions, like some of the players being in US others in AU, playing on a European server. Also asking for reproduction steps is pretty much the standard in software development and support as some users remember what they have done, which spares you a few days of trying to replicate the bug. |
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
26
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 17:54:00 -
[82] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Dont believe me? read through the bug report section. here all even provide an example https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1567011#post1567011see that? it means that CCP doesnt internally have the capabilities to test their own systems, or at the very least doesnt have the resources to dedicate to it. THIS is why the game is so buggy, THIS is why massive imbalance occurs. This means that the only way to really rectify this would be to create our own testing corp/group and end up doing the work they should already be doing but for free. This game doesnt have the resources to be anything but a beta and we are still in truth beta testers. So guys what do you all think of this, is it worth mustering up the resources to test things? is there a valid reason CCP cant manage to scrape together the resources to test their own things? Sorry, but not true. We have an internal QA team, and also run daily playtests on current builds of the game. What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur. Community feedback and videos demonstrating the particular circumstances around issues help us reproduce and fix them. In reference to the issue that you linked - we managed to isolate this issue and hotfixed a solution a couple of days back. :)
Its ok Saberwing - We were Perma-Beta testers in EVE online too. Some of us are quite used to it :P
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DeeJay One
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
191
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 18:04:00 -
[83] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:
No I'm not, because like I've said these bugs are happening randomly; there is no real reproduction step other than playing the game and waiting for these randomly occurring bugs to randomly occur.
Bugs have a tendency to disappear when run under debug tools, especially when you have to debug it outside a production environment (and devkits aren't a production environment). Sometimes debug tools also introduce other bugs (like the memory tracker in EVE used to finding memleaks, leaks memory https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3843089#post3843089 )
Frankly, QA and perofmance tuning is sometimes the hardest part of software development (that's why people tend to cheat on unit tests) |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1542
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 18:14:00 -
[84] - Quote
Nothing like a good ol' Heisenbug. One that only occurs when you're not looking for it. It is possible to fix bugs that can't be reliably reproduced, but it chews up a ton of development time. At that point it comes down to tradeoffs, do I fix several bugs that we know how to reproduce + add this other planned features, or do I fix this one annoying thing? This is why some bugs stick around for a long time, there was more value added by fixing other bugs first.
I've literally been told not to fix a long standing bug after spending a couple days looking into it and having a good idea where the problem was going to wind up being, because we had a date for when the next build was going to be released and the client preferred to have a handful of easily done (and boring, from a technical perspective) change requests than the fix for the one bug that had been annoying us for ages. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
1101
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 18:15:00 -
[85] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:
What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur
THATS the purpose of a Q/A department.... they are paid for it because they have the ability to dedecate more to finding those things out and the training to do so. THATS what makes them a Q/A department.... THATS the core of their job... its not ours. THEIR job is to find those precise conditions... thats the whole reason they exsist
a small-minded and foolish response. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
811
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 18:17:00 -
[86] - Quote
low genius wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:
What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur
THATS the purpose of a Q/A department.... they are paid for it because they have the ability to dedecate more to finding those things out and the training to do so. THATS what makes them a Q/A department.... THATS the core of their job... its not ours. THEIR job is to find those precise conditions... thats the whole reason they exsist a small-minded and foolish response.
then its your job aparently |
TheLastAlive105
ROGUE SPADES
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 18:27:00 -
[87] - Quote
If they really are working hard then how did we get 1.4 to happen lets not venture into the dark days again. It only lasted for a day but CCP should be ashamed of themselves that was terrible. What about the flaylock, the murder taxi, the revival glitch when uprising first came out. Everyone went ballistic on the forums when all of those happened well maybe not the revive glitch but the other two definitely yes. It took 2 months!!!!!!!!! to fix each of those evil things and does CCP even actually care when Flaylocks and murder taxis were a problem? Everyone had really good ideas when those were the big problems and we had to wait through each patch to get these things nerfed and balanced out so I agree with Ghost here even though I've seen him do naughty things COUGH COUGH invisibility glitch COUGH COUGH. |
CrotchGrab 360
The Men In The Mirror
1373
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 18:37:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Dont believe me? read through the bug report section. here all even provide an example https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1567011#post1567011see that? it means that CCP doesnt internally have the capabilities to test their own systems, or at the very least doesnt have the resources to dedicate to it. THIS is why the game is so buggy, THIS is why massive imbalance occurs. This means that the only way to really rectify this would be to create our own testing corp/group and end up doing the work they should already be doing but for free. This game doesnt have the resources to be anything but a beta and we are still in truth beta testers. So guys what do you all think of this, is it worth mustering up the resources to test things? is there a valid reason CCP cant manage to scrape together the resources to test their own things? Sorry, but not true. We have an internal QA team, and also run daily playtests on current builds of the game. What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur. Community feedback and videos demonstrating the particular circumstances around issues help us reproduce and fix them. In reference to the issue that you linked - we managed to isolate this issue and hotfixed a solution a couple of days back. :)
in light of that fact PLEASE consider the "gamer tester team" which has been proposed on the forums before.
Let a small amount of people you choose to test the game for you, they can replicate conditions and most of them
given the probabilities through playing every game mode on every map.
You know the gamers would play for more hours than what your team will be able to and more time = more data;
higher sample rate = more results!
The TTF (time-to-fix  ) would decrease, bugs would be found quickly, I've reported various bugs myself, mainly through
videos, when asked for further details (if i went down the proper route and filed a ticket) I just wasn't able to say but if you had real-time data you could determine those purely through having a test team.
Not that I'm trying to propose anything here..... |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
811
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 18:43:00 -
[89] - Quote
TheLastAlive105 wrote:If they really are working hard then how did we get 1.4 to happen lets not venture into the dark days again. It only lasted for a day but CCP should be ashamed of themselves that was terrible. What about the flaylock, the murder taxi, the revival glitch when uprising first came out. Everyone went ballistic on the forums when all of those happened well maybe not the revive glitch but the other two definitely yes. It took 2 months!!!!!!!!! to fix each of those evil things and does CCP even actually care when Flaylocks and murder taxis were a problem? Everyone had really good ideas when those were the big problems and we had to wait through each patch to get these things nerfed and balanced out so I agree with Ghost here even though I've seen him do naughty things COUGH COUGH invisibility glitch COUGH COUGH.
The invis glitch was a perfect example of the whole "if i want it fixed i have to do it myself"
it was a problem for nearly a month before anyone even admitted it was a glitch, and only after complete 100% replication instructions was it even awknowledged and it took another month to fix....
the mele glitch was around since 1.0 or 1.1 not sure which and it wasnt untill it was used in competition was it even givin the time of day... thats 4-5 months of people posting about it giving replication instructions only to have it fixed once it became so widly known that everyone was freaking out about it...
the massive rendering problems that took 6 months for a responce on that crippled vehicles causing the OP vehicles we know today.
now we have a sprint glitch that causes you tooo move slower then walking as a result of the fixes implemented for the mele glitch... how that got past QA ill never know since part of making a fix would involve testing that...
their game QA department just cant handle the workload, its not incompetance its that they simply dont have the resources. and as a result we the players end up having to do the majority of the legwork to compensate (admittedly it is the easy part) |
Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
119
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 18:44:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Dont believe me? read through the bug report section. here all even provide an example https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1567011#post1567011see that? it means that CCP doesnt internally have the capabilities to test their own systems, or at the very least doesnt have the resources to dedicate to it. THIS is why the game is so buggy, THIS is why massive imbalance occurs. This means that the only way to really rectify this would be to create our own testing corp/group and end up doing the work they should already be doing but for free. This game doesnt have the resources to be anything but a beta and we are still in truth beta testers. So guys what do you all think of this, is it worth mustering up the resources to test things? is there a valid reason CCP cant manage to scrape together the resources to test their own things? Sorry, but not true. We have an internal QA team, and also run daily playtests on current builds of the game. What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur. Community feedback and videos demonstrating the particular circumstances around issues help us reproduce and fix them. In reference to the issue that you linked - we managed to isolate this issue and hotfixed a solution a couple of days back. :)
I think what CCP Saberwing meant to say was
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