DUST Search - So CCP has no way to internally test anything

CCP Saberwing wrote:

Ghosts Chance wrote:

Dont believe me? read through the bug report section.

here all even provide an example

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1567011#post1567011

see that? it means that CCP doesnt internally have the capabilities to test their own systems, or at the very least doesnt have the resources to dedicate to it.

THIS is why the game is so buggy, THIS is why massive imbalance occurs.

This means that the only way to really rectify this would be to create our own testing corp/group and end up doing the work they should already be doing but for free. This game doesnt have the resources to be anything but a beta and we are still in truth beta testers.

So guys what do you all think of this, is it worth mustering up the resources to test things? is there a valid reason CCP cant manage to scrape together the resources to test their own things?

Sorry, but not true. We have an internal QA team, and also run daily playtests on current builds of the game.

What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur. Community feedback and videos demonstrating the particular circumstances around issues help us reproduce and fix them. In reference to the issue that you linked - we managed to isolate this issue and hotfixed a solution a couple of days back. :)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 801	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:34:00 - [1] - Quote Dont believe me? read through the bug report section. here all even provide an example https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1567011#post1567011 see that? it means that CCP doesnt internally have the capabilities to test their own systems, or at the very least doesnt have the resources to dedicate to it. THIS is why the game is so buggy, THIS is why massive imbalance occurs. This means that the only way to really rectify this would be to create our own testing corp/group and end up doing the work they should already be doing but for free. This game doesnt have the resources to be anything but a beta and we are still in truth beta testers. So guys what do you all think of this, is it worth mustering up the resources to test things? is there a valid reason CCP cant manage to scrape together the resources to test their own things?
Vanell Sin Dust2Dust. Top Men. 32	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:41:00 - [2] - Quote We dont care Just play the god damn game If you dont like it move to something else Im playing since Uprising 1.0 and still have 8m SP.Im I doing something wrong?
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1576	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:42:00 - [3] - Quote I don't see anything that supports your argument in that link. If a player encounters a bug they try to replicate it. But maybe it's a bug that has something to do with the console of the player? Maybe something with how he skilled? Or his fitting? Or with his name, the corp he's in, the date he created his account. There can be tons of stupid reasons why something doesn't work the way it's intented to work. That's why they ask them to try to replicate the issue. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 950	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:43:00 - [4] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Dont believe me? read through the bug report section. here all even provide an example https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1567011#post1567011 see that? it means that CCP doesnt internally have the capabilities to test their own systems, or at the very least doesnt have the resources to dedicate to it. THIS is why the game is so buggy, THIS is why massive imbalance occurs. This means that the only way to really rectify this would be to create our own testing corp/group and end up doing the work they should already be doing but for free. This game doesnt have the resources to be anything but a beta and we are still in truth beta testers. So guys what do you all think of this, is it worth mustering up the resources to test things? is there a valid reason CCP cant manage to scrape together the resources to test their own things? Sorry, but not true. We have an internal QA team, and also run daily playtests on current builds of the game. What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur. Community feedback and videos demonstrating the particular circumstances around issues help us reproduce and fix them. In reference to the issue that you linked - we managed to isolate this issue and hotfixed a solution a couple of days back. :) CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

BAD FURRY Oh No You Didn't 276	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:43:00 - [5] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Dont believe me? read through the bug report section. here all even provide an example https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1567011#post1567011 see that? it means that CCP doesnt internally have the capabilities to test their own systems, or at the very least doesnt have the resources to dedicate to it. THIS is why the game is so buggy, THIS is why massive imbalance occurs. This means that the only way to really rectify this would be to create our own testing corp/group and end up doing the work they should already be doing but for free. This game doesnt have the resources to be anything but a beta and we are still in truth beta testers. So guys what do you all think of this, is it worth mustering up the resources to test things? is there a valid reason CCP cant manage to scrape together the resources to test their own things? so whats the point ? you must be new to CCP,s games heres a vid for you HTFU Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 849	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:43:00 - [6] - Quote Basing your entire argument on a single post made in a single thread on a single forum seems a little shaky. Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Jan. 14th
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 801	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:45:00 - [7] - Quote Denak Kalamari wrote: Basing your entire argument on a single post made in a single thread on a single forum seems a little shaky. it was an example... if you read the OP please notice i said the entire bug report forum was my evidence :P it was just the most recent example.
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 849	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:46:00 - [8] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: it was an example... if you read the OP please notice i said the entire bug report forum was my evidence :P it was just the most recent example. Well, CCP answered this for me: CCP Saberwing wrote: Sorry, but not true. We have an internal QA team, and also run daily playtests on current builds of the game. What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur. Community feedback and videos demonstrating the particular circumstances around issues help us reproduce and fix them. In reference to the issue that you linked - we managed to isolate this issue and hotfixed a solution a couple of days back. :) Finding specific issues is a lot more complicated than you might think, and even if you do hours upon hours of QA testing and combing through tons of code to refine every single bug, something is deemed to slip through when certain, very specific conditions are met. It's not realistic to expect the QA team to find the issues that have specific, and very specific conditions. Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Jan. 14th
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 801	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:47:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur THATS the purpose of a Q/A department.... they are paid for it because they have the ability to dedecate more to finding those things out and the training to do so. THATS what makes them a Q/A department.... THATS the core of their job... its not ours. THEIR job is to find those precise conditions... thats the whole reason they exsist
thomas mak STRONG-ARMED BANDITS Public Disorder. 20	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:51:00 - [10] - Quote they can't test is because CCP don't have SponkSponkSponk's PS3, or Mango Dee's PS3, so they can't do a fair test, it is not CCP's problem for the lag -it may cause by your PS3, don't put it behind your TV if you do, heat of TV can make PS3 lag, and place your PS3 at some place cooler or wind flows, or find a mini fan to cool your PS3, at least this work on my PS3 -it may cause by worge battle server region, worge battle server region makes me lag so much that I flying around the map, so check your battle server region is corret or not *Real tanker dies with their tanks!*

Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 801	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:57:00 - [11] - Quote thomas mak wrote: they can't test is because CCP don't have SponkSponkSponk's PS3, or Mango Dee's PS3, so they can't do a fair test, it is not CCP's problem for the lag -it may cause by your PS3, don't put it behind your TV if you do, heat of TV can make PS3 lag, and place your PS3 at some place cooler or wind flows, or find a mini fan to cool your PS3, at least this work on my PS3 -it may cause by worge battle server region, worge battle server region makes me lag so much that I flying around the map, so check your battle server region is corret or not you diddnt even read that thread did you....
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 197	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:07:00 - [12] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur THATS the purpose of a Q/A department.... they are paid for it because they have the ability to dedecate more to finding those things out and the training to do so. THATS what makes them a Q/A department.... THATS the core of their job... its not ours. THEIR job is to find those precise conditions... thats the whole reason they exsist you sir are an idiot.
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4625	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:11:00 - [13] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur THATS the purpose of a Q/A department.... they are paid for it because they have the ability to dedecate more to finding those things out and the training to do so. THATS what makes them a Q/A department.... THATS the core of their job... its not ours. THEIR job is to find those precise conditions... thats the whole reason they exsist If it makes you feel any better, I run through the technical support/bugs section daily to find and record bugs that people report so that I can upload them to youtube and help narrow them down. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 803	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:12:00 - [14] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur THATS the purpose of a Q/A department.... they are paid for it because they have the ability to dedecate more to finding those things out and the training to do so. THATS what makes them a Q/A department.... THATS the core of their job... its not ours. THEIR job is to find those precise conditions... thats the whole reason they exsist you sir are an idiot. im not joking, read teh post i linked its a perfect example. Q/As have more resources and abilities to do this stuff. we cant actually test to that extent becuase we cant eliminate variables the way they can. their job is to use the tools they have that we dont to eliminate variables and find those precice conditions. they have acess to the code they have dev tools they have the ability to eliminate variables we dont have those things, we cant use those things. therefore theres a limit on what players can do and Q/As job is to go above and beyond that limit. that post is a perfect example of a player hitting the absolute limit of what players can test, and the devs asking them to go further... something only their Q/A team would actually have the power to do. its our job to report... its THEIR job to investigate.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 803	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:13:00 - [15] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur THATS the purpose of a Q/A department.... they are paid for it because they have the ability to dedecate more to finding those things out and the training to do so. THATS what makes them a Q/A department.... THATS the core of their job... its not ours. THEIR job is to find those precise conditions... thats the whole reason they exsist If it makes you feel any better, I run through the technical support/bugs section daily to find and record bugs that people report so that I can upload them to youtube and help narrow them down. you also have a capture card though wich most do not have. the funny thing is that YOU can find ways to replicate and record but the Q/A department somehow has trouble doing the same while having more resources?
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2602	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:14:00 - [16] - Quote Oh brother, the power of anonymity at work. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 421	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:15:00 - [17] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: CUT. There's an OLD catch in the world of Videogames, born with Ultima Ascension. "IF the the game is Huge, Huge are the Bugs" I'm not a CCP fanboy, but we must say that QA can't do all the test. Too many variant, too many thing a player can do, to many conditions. Otherwise you don't understand why TES or Fallout always come out with huge bugs. And we are talking about a multimillion company making multimillion game. But some concern about QA is coming from me: why the HMG fix took SOOOOOOOOO long, when all you need to do is try it? God bless Ghab, savior of the heavys Once you try "HMG-FAT" you never get back...
TheWee BabySeamus Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 86	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:15:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Dont believe me? read through the bug report section. here all even provide an example https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1567011#post1567011 see that? it means that CCP doesnt internally have the capabilities to test their own systems, or at the very least doesnt have the resources to dedicate to it. THIS is why the game is so buggy, THIS is why massive imbalance occurs. This means that the only way to really rectify this would be to create our own testing corp/group and end up doing the work they should already be doing but for free. This game doesnt have the resources to be anything but a beta and we are still in truth beta testers. So guys what do you all think of this, is it worth mustering up the resources to test things? is there a valid reason CCP cant manage to scrape together the resources to test their own things? Sorry, but not true. We have an internal QA team, and also run daily playtests on current builds of the game. What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur. Community feedback and videos demonstrating the particular circumstances around issues help us reproduce and fix them. In reference to the issue that you linked - we managed to isolate this issue and hotfixed a solution a couple of days back. :) RACIAL HEAVIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND SCOUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU NOOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wee Baby Seamus-------------->DDB Director & #1 Sex chat operator
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 803	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:17:00 - [19] - Quote Jastad wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: CUT. There's an OLD catch in the world of Videogames, born with Ultima Ascension. "IF the the game is Huge, Huge are the Bugs" I'm not a CCP fanboy, but we must say that QA can't do all the test. Too many variant, too many thing a player can do, to many conditions. Otherwise you don't understand why TES or Fallout always come out with huge bugs. And we are talking about a multimillion company making multimillion game. But some concern about QA is coming from me: why the HMG fix took SOOOOOOOOO long, when all you need to do is try it? God bless Ghab, savior of the heavys yah alot of the bugs can be seen and glaringly obvious simply be playing with it for more then 10 minuites.... and rather then play with it for 10 minuites all we get is a "can you get this on vedeo please" responce on the bug forum.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 803	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:18:00 - [20] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Oh brother, the power of anonymity at work. CCP has my credit card info :P im not anonymous to them :P

Horizen Kenpachi TACTICAL STRIKE ELITE 92	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:18:00 - [21] - Quote Denak Kalamari wrote: Basing your entire argument on a single post made in a single thread on a single forum seems a little shaky. Gdgivjhffbdibfghyhcgfjujidfvgvfhhjxdhfhcfjgc yeah man i got crabs should i report it Hit me with your nerf bat.
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 421	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:20:00 - [22] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Jastad wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: CUT. There's an OLD catch in the world of Videogames, born with Ultima Ascension. "IF the the game is Huge, Huge are the Bugs" I'm not a CCP fanboy, but we must say that QA can't do all the test. Too many variant, too many thing a player can do, to many conditions. Otherwise you don't understand why TES or Fallout always come out with huge bugs. And we are talking about a multimillion company making multimillion game. But some concern about QA is coming from me: why the HMG fix took SOOOOOOOOO long, when all you need to do is try it? God bless Ghab, savior of the heavys yah alot of the bugs can be seen and glaringly obvious simply be playing with it for more then 10 minuites.... and rather then play with it for 10 minuites all we get is a "can you get this on vedeo please" responce on the bug forum. Probably they are few, so their play test time is limited. Probably they have been busy trying the new scout and heavy, to not make them OP. Once you try "HMG-FAT" you never get back...
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 804	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:22:00 - [23] - Quote Jastad wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Jastad wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: CUT. There's an OLD catch in the world of Videogames, born with Ultima Ascension. "IF the the game is Huge, Huge are the Bugs" I'm not a CCP fanboy, but we must say that QA can't do all the test. Too many variant, too many thing a player can do, to many conditions. Otherwise you don't understand why TES or Fallout always come out with huge bugs. And we are talking about a multimillion company making multimillion game. But some concern about QA is coming from me: why the HMG fix took SOOOOOOOOO long, when all you need to do is try it? God bless Ghab, savior of the heavys yah alot of the bugs can be seen and glaringly obvious simply be playing with it for more then 10 minuites.... and rather then play with it for 10 minuites all we get is a "can you get this on vedeo please" responce on the bug forum. Probably they are few, so their play test time is limited. Probably they have been busy trying the new scout and heavy, to not make them OP. thats the prime suspect right there. they simply dont have the resources to have a big enough team to dedicate enough people to spend all their time replicating exsisting bugs. its not that they dont have a Q/A team... its that the one they have doesnt have enough people dedicated solely to replication. and replication is one of the things that a Q/A team can do that players for the most part CANT... and yet thats precicly what CCP is asking of its players for damn near every bug. (and if we want it fixed within 6 months we dont really have a choice but to find a way)
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 365	Posted - 2014.01.15 12:08:00 - [24] - Quote Happy now OP? Your ignorance has been remedied. Now thank CCP for removing your ignorance and think about posting a relevant thread instead of trying some FUD. Electronic Warfare GOD in the making
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 238	Posted - 2014.01.15 12:14:00 - [25] - Quote Ghost, Have you ever worked on a software development team? Because your questions/attitude suggest you have no idea the complexity associated with debugging or the realities associated with development and testing of code -- not to mention the title of your thread is flat out incorrect....Leadfoot
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 956	Posted - 2014.01.15 12:15:00 - [26] - Quote Can I volunteer for the play testing team? I'll take AUR for payments. =D Buff passive scans & fix TTK! My Closed Beta Alts - Overlord Ulath, Overlord Bosse, Overlord Zero
Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 91	Posted - 2014.01.15 12:15:00 - [27] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Oh brother, the power of anonymity at work. CCP has my credit card info :P im not anonymous to them :P Oh good, that means they can charge you however much it costs to hire a couple of thousand dedicated playtesters that you seem to desire. I'm sure CCP would never turn down such a generous offer.
Toyboi The Rainbow Effect 170	Posted - 2014.01.15 12:17:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Dont believe me? read through the bug report section. here all even provide an example https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1567011#post1567011 see that? it means that CCP doesnt internally have the capabilities to test their own systems, or at the very least doesnt have the resources to dedicate to it. THIS is why the game is so buggy, THIS is why massive imbalance occurs. This means that the only way to really rectify this would be to create our own testing corp/group and end up doing the work they should already be doing but for free. This game doesnt have the resources to be anything but a beta and we are still in truth beta testers. So guys what do you all think of this, is it worth mustering up the resources to test things? is there a valid reason CCP cant manage to scrape together the resources to test their own things? Sorry, but not true. We have an internal QA team, and also run daily playtests on current builds of the game. What is more tricky to do is to replicate the precise conditions that causes specific issues to occur. Community feedback and videos demonstrating the particular circumstances around issues help us reproduce and fix them. In reference to the issue that you linked - we managed to isolate this issue and hotfixed a solution a couple of days back. :) the uprising 1.0 patch kinda speaks for itself. If you try to land people on the moon and something go's wrong people die..
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 804	Posted - 2014.01.15 12:21:00 - [29] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Ghost, Have you ever worked on a software development team? Because your questions/attitude suggest you have no idea the complexity associated with debugging or the realities associated with development and testing of code -- not to mention the title of your thread is flat out incorrect....Leadfoot Wierdly enough i HAVE been in a game dev team, although it was not of the coded variety in that case. i do however had loads of experiance replicating bugs.... remember the invisable shotgunners a while back? yah your welcome :P
Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 91	Posted - 2014.01.15 12:23:00 - [30] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: CCP has my credit card info :P im not anonymous to them :P Bug removal in coding can be an extremely frustating activity, an entire feature could produce a stack overflow if you didn't quite get the terminating conditions on a recursive algorithm just right. Or calculations incorrect because you made a typo or accidentally transposed a character or fatfinger an extra "." or number. Sometimes bug-hunting and removal is the greatest detective activity you can play, and the best help you can get is quantity. That is something that can be unfeasible in all but the supergiants of game development companies, thousands of people just playtesting. It gets very expensive. However, Mmre people giving their insight, more people submitting videos with a different perspective, it all helps to find that mission condition in the recursion. or that extra ".".



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