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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Krasymptimo
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
91
   |
Posted - 2014.01.15 12:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Oh brother, the power of anonymity at work. CCP has my credit card info :P im not anonymous to them :P
Oh good, that means they can charge you however much it costs to hire a couple of thousand dedicated playtesters that you seem to desire.
I'm sure CCP would never turn down such a generous offer. |
Krasymptimo
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
91
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 12:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:
CCP has my credit card info :P im not anonymous to them :P
Bug removal in coding can be an extremely frustating activity, an entire feature could produce a stack overflow if you didn't quite get the terminating conditions on a recursive algorithm just right. Or calculations incorrect because you made a typo or accidentally transposed a character or fatfinger an extra "." or number.
Sometimes bug-hunting and removal is the greatest detective activity you can play, and the best help you can get is quantity. That is something that can be unfeasible in all but the supergiants of game development companies, thousands of people just playtesting. It gets very expensive. However, Mmre people giving their insight, more people submitting videos with a different perspective, it all helps to find that mission condition in the recursion. or that extra ".". |
Krasymptimo
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
91
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 13:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Krasymptimo wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:
CCP has my credit card info :P im not anonymous to them :P
Bug removal in coding can be an extremely frustating activity, an entire feature could produce a stack overflow if you didn't quite get the terminating conditions on a recursive algorithm just right. Or calculations incorrect because you made a typo or accidentally transposed a character or fatfinger an extra "." or number. Sometimes bug-hunting and removal is the greatest detective activity you can play, and the best help you can get is quantity. That is something that can be unfeasible in all but the supergiants of game development companies, thousands of people just playtesting. It gets very expensive. However, Mmre people giving their insight, more people submitting videos with a different perspective, it all helps to find that mission condition in the recursion. or that extra ".". my point was that there is a limit to what you as a player can replicate. and CCP ruitinly asks things of players that they cannot do, like int he example of OP where they ask him to replicate things using tools the QA team NOT the players have access too... isolating things isnt something a player can do for the most part on a live server with payer interfearance, its soething that is done in a controlled environment where you can carefully eliminate variables without other players wandering around muching up the tests or introducing more variables as your trying to narrow them down. while my title may of been a little harsh the point is that CCP is asking things of the players that the players cant reasonably acomplish as a replacement for adaquate Q/A
Find a few more examples of this occuring, otherwise this is just an edge case where the Q/A team are having difficulties because of the multiple variables occuring and haven't got a high staffing level or the time to account for all these variables and the players have difficulty because they don't have access to replicate their bugs in a controlled environment. |
Krasymptimo
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
91
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 14:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Drud Green wrote:Hahahahaha all the people defending Ccp with "Hey op, ccp is too dumb and poor to fix dust, don't pick on them!"
Let me know when you make an intelligent post.
Chosts Chance wrote:how about bugs that have exsisted for a year :P
like the way the railgun randomly overheats without shooting
or the way railguns slugs phase through objects
or the way railguns shoot and you get heat but no projectile or damage is produced.
those bugs are all over a year old now and CCPs stance is "if you dont have video it doesnt exsist"
ive made more threads reguarding these issues alone that i just cant be bothered to go through the same song and dance where its not real if you dont have video.
That just proves the bugs are difficult to replicate, I can say I have never ran into such bugs and I bet a majority of people haven't either. If you can't replicate it, and no-one has clear evidence it exists then "absence of evidence is evidence of absence"
Devs ask for the videos because if you already have one or know how to replicate it by step-by-step instructions, why duplicate work? |
Krasymptimo
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
91
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 14:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:basically TLDR:
if we as players dont know how to replicate it CCP cant replicate it and it will never get fixed.
proof?: year old railgun bugs that we cant replicate and therefore are still in the game since open beta
So what's your point? That some bugs are still in the game because we can't find the environment in which they are caused?
You just proved my point. |
Krasymptimo
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
91
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 14:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Krasymptimo wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:basically TLDR:
if we as players dont know how to replicate it CCP cant replicate it and it will never get fixed.
proof?: year old railgun bugs that we cant replicate and therefore are still in the game since open beta So what's your point? That some bugs are still in the game because we can't find the environment in which they are caused? You just proved my point. if WE the players cant replicate something then it wont get fixed.... aka WE are CCPs QA, they simply take what WE can replicate it, verify it, then fix it, but issues that we are unable to replicate on command dont seem to even get investigated CCP side of things. CCP needs specialised peopel that are dedicated to replicating persistant year long bugs rather then forcing players to do the work for free if they ever want to see it fixed. its been a damn year, persistant through EVERY build of the game outside of the originals on the other game engine. as much information as possable has been handed over multiple times from multiple sources but since we the players dont have replication instructions for 100% on command replication of the bug/s it wont ever be fixed. do you not see a problem with that?
No, again, because if you can't replicate it 100% without fail, you haven't found the sole source of the bug and CCP maybe be slightly closer in their search but not by much. Also because we, the players, number in the thousands, and If we say for the sake of argument and numbers CCP has 100 employed playtesters in their Q&A and we have 5000 people playing the same hours as the playtesters work. The players are 50x more likely to find a bug and remember the situation that caused it. If we then remember the playtesters need to be paid, well go with a low conservative estimate of -ú15000 a year. That's -ú1,500,000 a year just to find bugs.
I'm all for bug finding, but I also like to be efficient with what I do. Instead of hiring more people, implement tools which can record a Dust clients last 10(?) minutes of input and varibles, and put estimates at what timing the bug happened, they programmers can run through that timeframe of variables and see if they see anything unusual. I don't know if that's possible, but I'd rather CCP spend their resources and money on finding better ways to gather data when bugs occur, rather than just to lever them out with the brute force of sheer numbers. |
Krasymptimo
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
91
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 15:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:
yah except those testers have tools WE dont have.
like sterile test environments where they can eliminate variables
logs
access to the games code
if WE cannot replicate it that means that it basically REQUIRES those tools in order to find out its origin.
so the bug will go on forever untill they actually use those tools.
the problem is they arnt even bothering
What if the sterile test environment is getting rid of those variables in the first place, and therefore the only place that the bug can be found is in the live environment? |
Krasymptimo
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
91
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 15:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Krasymptimo wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:
yah except those testers have tools WE dont have.
like sterile test environments where they can eliminate variables
logs
access to the games code
if WE cannot replicate it that means that it basically REQUIRES those tools in order to find out its origin.
so the bug will go on forever untill they actually use those tools.
the problem is they arnt even bothering
What if the sterile test environment is getting rid of those variables in the first place, and therefore the only place that the bug can be found is in the live environment? please refer to the points where i say "logs" and "access to the games code" for the solution to that problem im sure as well that they have many other tools at their desposal that we dont. if one of their tools fail that doesnt mean all of them do.
And what if we can't send them logs and they are simply working on something to solve such an issue? |
Krasymptimo
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
91
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
If the bug happens only on occasion and doesn't break the game, why should it be given such a high priority over things such as more game content and game balance? |
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