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Why is everyone crying about the redline?

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abarkrishna WarRavens 259	Posted - 2014.01.12 01:52:00 - [1] - Quote Seriously I do not get it. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 128	Posted - 2014.01.12 01:54:00 - [2] - Quote Because it serves no purpose, yet present the opportinity for bad and unskilled players to cower behind the redline unharmed while dealing damage to obviously more skilled opponents.
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2427	Posted - 2014.01.12 01:56:00 - [3] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. Then you're a lost cause.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1173	Posted - 2014.01.12 01:56:00 - [4] - Quote 1/10 try harder next time. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
McFurious TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 431	Posted - 2014.01.12 01:57:00 - [5] - Quote Because it sucks to get stuck behind it and it sucks to beat the other team so bad that they get stuck behind it. Maybe have a time limit. If one team has no objectives a 5 minute timer starts counting down. At least then boring, one sided matches end quicker. Half Irish. Often angry. Closed Beta Masshole
abarkrishna WarRavens 259	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:02:00 - [6] - Quote When being redlined the game already ends extremely quickly. So what if a few guys wanna be bitches and hide let them. It's not like they are helping win the game. Let them hide and get no kills. If your stupid enough to get killed by a redline sniper you should just quit playing. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1173	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:06:00 - [7] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: When being redlined the game already ends extremely quickly. So what if a few guys wanna be bitches and hide let them. It's not like they are helping win the game. Let them hide and get no kills. If your stupid enough to get killed by a redline sniper you should just quit playing. You're absolutely right, it's not like you can't cover objectives from some red lines right? "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 43	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:07:00 - [8] - Quote The red line prevents spawn camping the MCC or ground spawn. Which we saw a lot of before it was put there. However, some have taken it as a 'safety zone' and snipe from it with sniper rifles and rail gun tanks. These have extremely long ranges, and some sniper rifles (Thales) can shoot you from so far away the player hasn't popped in yet to be seen.
abarkrishna WarRavens 259	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:10:00 - [9] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: abarkrishna wrote: When being redlined the game already ends extremely quickly. So what if a few guys wanna be bitches and hide let them. It's not like they are helping win the game. Let them hide and get no kills. If your stupid enough to get killed by a redline sniper you should just quit playing. You're absolutely right, it's not like you can't cover objectives from some red lines right? I think your talking about terrible map design. Manus peak for example. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Scheneighnay McBob Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 3536	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:11:00 - [10] - Quote Because they let that dead horse sit for a little while, now they need to get back to it. We used to have a time machine

Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1173	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:21:00 - [11] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: abarkrishna wrote: When being redlined the game already ends extremely quickly. So what if a few guys wanna be bitches and hide let them. It's not like they are helping win the game. Let them hide and get no kills. If your stupid enough to get killed by a redline sniper you should just quit playing. You're absolutely right, it's not like you can't cover objectives from some red lines right? I think your talking about terrible map design. Manus peak for example. The funny part about that is that map design wouldn't matter without the redline, however people can still abuse the redline on better designed maps. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
mollerz Minja Scouts 1772	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:22:00 - [12] - Quote They should make the redline death timer 60 seconds. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 403	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:27:00 - [13] - Quote Because rail turrets and tanks can sit in it and take out my ADS all the way across the map. When I try to fight them I can't do enough damage in what little time I can spend behind the redzone. I don't mind people using it to move around the battlefield, but I remember some guy sitting back at the spawn and calling a rail tank out when we had armor/DS's only to recall his tank when there was no targets. That was a very satisfying suicide jeep kill i must admit, literally within seconds of the match ending. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
negative49er The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 484	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:31:00 - [14] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. keep getting kill by someone you can't kill back is a pain Dedicated Shotgun Scout
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9915	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:33:00 - [15] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. Then you're a lost cause. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 366	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:33:00 - [16] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK0rN2e_5hI Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.
LEHON Xeon Pradox XVI Proficiency V. 57	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:33:00 - [17] - Quote Far as I'm concerned, it's another thing that can disappear, along with AA. Necrophillia: That Uncontrollable Urge To Crack Open A Cold One.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 457	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:17:00 - [18] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. It's mostly about a group of people who are too lazy to pull a militia grade sniper rifle to pick off people who sit inside it's field. Basically a pile of whiners who say "If I can't reach it with my Assault Rifle that's no fair cause everything should be catered around me me me me me me!" etc. The complaints have no value and shall not be considered because they have no evidence the redline is a detriment to the game, rather it's just the opposite, there is more proof that without a redline the gamemodes are broken. Such evidence was the map clearing spawn-campers of old who simply made newcomers quit in entirety. The redline gives a place for the group to recoup and rethink possibly. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 530	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:23:00 - [19] - Quote The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it.
McFurious TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 432	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:37:00 - [20] - Quote mollerz wrote: They should make the redline death timer 60 seconds. Maybe make an actual home objective behind the redline, if it gets captured, game over. Half Irish. Often angry. Closed Beta Masshole

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 457	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:38:00 - [21] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it. They're all in range of sniper rifles if they can shoot out.... Also... Highsec in EVE is a lowered risk environment but you still have chances of being killed, just like "GasP" the redline. So much for your "sh+¡tty" example kid. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 530	Posted - 2014.01.12 04:05:00 - [22] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it. They're all in range of sniper rifles if they can shoot out.... Also... Highsec in EVE is a lowered risk environment but you still have chances of being killed, just like "GasP" the redline. So much for your "sh+¡tty" example kid. Here are some things you may attempt to consider, 'kid': Snipers can embed themselves so far in the redline that the only counter is another sniper. The counter to [x] should never be [x]. That was one of the major complaints that lead to forge guns being nerfed. Tanks with railguns can sit in the redline, able to destroy every vehicle in the match ( a major complaint by drop ship pilots). Given that they can easily back up, out of sight, they are nearly invincible. Often, the only way to effectively counter a redline rail tank is another rail tank. Those are but two issues. They both have some common themes. One in particular is that the redline acts as a magical area that severely reduces the 'risk' portion of of the risk/reward equation. Which is to say, as I so eloquently put it, that the redline defecates on the risk/reward aspect of the game.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Redline Defense Force Seekers of the Unseen 277	Posted - 2014.01.12 04:33:00 - [23] - Quote My knives take care of very-close-to redline snipers just fine. Charge Slash Awww, where you to busy looking through the scope of your Thale's? That's to bad now isn't it? :D Dropship Surfer I will never stop killing you. Basically, kind of a big deal.
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 257	Posted - 2014.01.12 04:50:00 - [24] - Quote I have pitched it 1000 times, if you spend more than 2 min in your own red line you get killed for cowardance, your a merc whos sent there on a mission, and if you refuse they should kill you, kick you from battle and find someone else who will do the contract.
Slim Winning BIG BAD W0LVES 14	Posted - 2014.01.12 04:53:00 - [25] - Quote Truth be told. The redline can get annoying but it has a purpose and I can't think of a better system myself. I'll admit that I snipe with my rail tank often enough. It just so happens to have the best highground to do it with. Maybe cut the enemy entrance into the redline to 10 seconds. And, cut WP obtained from behind the redline by 75%?
Big miku Expert Intervention Caldari State 329	Posted - 2014.01.12 05:06:00 - [26] - Quote Slim Winning wrote: Truth be told. The redline can get annoying but it has a purpose and I can't think of a better system myself Set up super OP (CRU level HP and Advance level damage) blaster turrets around the Spawn zones increase their engagement range and AI tracking and firing protocol, strategically place some bunkers around them to prevent them from being railgun snipped, then remove the redline. For extra OP add Light armor reppers to the turrets. Now there are powerful turrets that will auto kill things that linger around the spawns but can be killed with a lot of effort. and you can drive within range of redline tanks and kill them but the turrents will kill you if you hang about. I've done a lot of thinking on this. Set up some "Staging Areas", little base camps with exits on the sides and my OP turrets in them. Tanks and snipers can't snipe out of these nor can others easily snipe into them. Now remove the redline.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 47	Posted - 2014.01.12 05:10:00 - [27] - Quote Slim Winning wrote: Truth be told. The redline can get annoying but it has a purpose and I can't think of a better system myself. I'll admit that I snipe with my rail tank often enough. It just so happens to have the best highground to do it with. Maybe cut the enemy entrance into the redline to 10 seconds. And, cut WP obtained from behind the redline by 75%? Perhaps, but I think a better solution would be to edit the maps themselves so that there isn't a 'high ground' so appealing in the red zones, or put a screen of some kind between the red zone and the rest of the map. Like a ridge or buildings just outside of the red zone.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 459	Posted - 2014.01.12 08:05:00 - [28] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it. They're all in range of sniper rifles if they can shoot out.... Also... Highsec in EVE is a lowered risk environment but you still have chances of being killed, just like "GasP" the redline. So much for your "sh+¡tty" example kid. Here are some things you may attempt to consider, 'kid': Snipers can embed themselves so far in the redline that the only counter is another sniper. The counter to [x] should never be [x]. That was one of the major complaints that lead to forge guns being nerfed. Tanks with railguns can sit in the redline, able to destroy every vehicle in the match ( a major complaint by drop ship pilots). Given that they can easily back up, out of sight, they are nearly invincible. Often, the only way to effectively counter a redline rail tank is another rail tank. Those are but two issues. They both have some common themes. One in particular is that the redline acts as a magical area that severely reduces the 'risk' portion of of the risk/reward equation. Which is to say, as I so eloquently put it, that the redline defecates on the risk/reward aspect of the game. I take it you don't know that dropships can fly higher than a rail tank can shoot? Literally. If the dropship was directly above the tank at max height and the tank turret was pointing straight up, on most maps it's out of range. That is a massive area for dropships to travel in unhindered. How long does it take to get up there? About 3 seconds of just jamming in the boosters button. If you're able to be hit by one of the snipers in those redline positions you are likely trying to redline the other team, which means you're winning... Or just Whining. You can always hit the people in those spots by just going around to the side a bit. I've killed so many of them like that I've lost count. "The counter to x should never be x" eh? That can be said the same with all rapid-fire class VS single-shot classes of guns at close combat. In close combat the only practical counter for rapid-fire weaponry is rapid-fire weaponry. From a guns perspective that's about the same as single-shot weaponry needed to take out single-shot weaponry. As soon as they let snipers have better close-combat performance from hipfire.... then you might have an argument that would permit such a change. Also I see you don't actually read around because "only forges taking out forges" was not the reason they were nerfed. The reason was the high alpha damage and the wide splash damage. Basically it was like if they missed the shot, they got a free sniper round to hit the target instead. It used to require far less accuracy to be far more lethal. so they changed the accuracy by reducing splash and a bit of range because CCP didn't want to mess with the rooftops. The weapon was designed for vehicle damage primarily, and because at that time they were being used with the sole intention of being anti-infantry across the entire board of use, they deemed it needed a change so that vehicles would no longer just be an afterthought. In other words, it had nothing to do with "the only counter of x shouldn't be x". That is just an assumption you shoved in there. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
abarkrishna WarRavens 261	Posted - 2014.01.12 08:35:00 - [29] - Quote McFurious wrote: mollerz wrote: They should make the redline death timer 60 seconds. Maybe make an actual home objective behind the redline, if it gets captured, game over. This I could get behind. But really longer games pay more in both isk and Sp so I could see it hurting the economy a little. As far as the risk / reward goes when being redlined there is virtually no reward. How is it logical to risk far more than they would be rewarded? Most players are not rich and can not afford to lose a ton of suits to campers waiting for idiots to run out of the redline like fish in a barrel. To suggest they just be lambs to the slaughter is just people being greedy pricks. Railguns are already plagued by the horrid draw distance. It is a miracle if anyone can see an enemy at 300 units of measurement when aiming down a railguns sights. Railguns are pretty much the only counter to Assault dropships. Swarms are ******* useless. Forge guns are ok but leave the user very vulnerable. The reason I say terrible map design is that one side always has a huge advantage. Manus peak is a perfect example of that. So basically people just got bored of bitching about tanks and found something else instead. Bunch of whiny entitled brats. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 137	Posted - 2014.01.12 08:37:00 - [30] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. cause people are hideing in it what don't you get we want people to come out and play. The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy"s will to be imposed upon him. Sun Tzu

True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5573	Posted - 2014.01.12 08:39:00 - [31] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. Never bring up this subject again or do you not remember when I beat you to death with a Nanite injector? Cowards use the redline to hide and not lose ISK or resources.....in EVE there is no redline....you should not be safe in this game because the redline panders to casuals and scrubs. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
AAA Hellcab molon labe. Public Disorder. 77	Posted - 2014.01.12 08:46:00 - [32] - Quote We're crying that we can't fight you in the MCC when your shields drop, and forces splinter to either hold the null cannons or take over the control room. But it's coming... Sometime (TM).
KIRSTY j The Walking Targets 45	Posted - 2014.01.12 08:47:00 - [33] - Quote i have said this before. you can kill players in the redline, it's not that safe. would rather redline snipers than most of my team sitting in the MCC. nearly every game is 1 sided and you have no chance of ever getting out of there.
Blaze Ashra Ametat Security Amarr Empire 113	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:19:00 - [34] - Quote KIRSTY j wrote: i have said this before. you can kill players in the redline, it's not that safe. would rather redline snipers than most of my team sitting in the MCC. nearly every game is 1 sided and you have no chance of ever getting out of there. You'll get better with practice. Don't spawn on an MCC, get a gallante light frame with profile dampeners and shield extenders and an uplink. Pull back and go around the red blob doing everything they can to kill you. Drop your uplink and move to take a CRU/Supply depot/objective and I guarantee you some people will spawn there and back you up. It's not rocket science.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 535	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:24:00 - [35] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: [qu I take it you don't know that dropships can fly higher than a rail tank can shoot? Literally. If the dropship was directly above the tank at max height and the tank turret was pointing straight up, on most maps it's out of range. That is a massive area for dropships to travel in unhindered. How long does it take to get up there? About 3 seconds of just jamming in the boosters button. If you're able to be hit by one of the snipers in those redline positions you are likely trying to redline the other team, which means you're winning... Or just Whining. You can always hit the people in those spots by just going around to the side a bit. I've killed so many of them like that I've lost count. "The counter to x should never be x" eh? That can be said the same with all rapid-fire class VS single-shot classes of guns at close combat. In close combat the only practical counter for rapid-fire weaponry is rapid-fire weaponry. From a guns perspective that's about the same as single-shot weaponry needed to take out single-shot weaponry. As soon as they let snipers have better close-combat performance from hipfire.... then you might have an argument that would permit such a change. Also I see you don't actually read around because "only forges taking out forges" was not the reason they were nerfed. The reason was the high alpha damage and the wide splash damage. Basically it was like if they missed the shot, they got a free sniper round to hit the target instead. It used to require far less accuracy to be far more lethal. so they changed the accuracy by reducing splash and a bit of range because CCP didn't want to mess with the rooftops. The weapon was designed for vehicle damage primarily, and because at that time they were being used with the sole intention of being anti-infantry across the entire board of use, they deemed it needed a change so that vehicles would no longer just be an afterthought. In other words, it had nothing to do with "the only counter of x shouldn't be x". That is just an assumption you shoved in there. Ok. I take it that all the complaints about rail tanks that experienced dedicated dropship pilots have are completely unfounded... Your quip about the redline sniper and my team winning... Well. An assumption. Grab out a Thales [for example] , and you can be far back in the redline, so far that even a suicide mission is impossible to counter them. And they can shoot at least to the middle of the map, where the majority of any action should be happening. Hard to counter, unless you counter snipe. which many here on the forums have a problem with, me included. As for forges... well, being a dedicated forge gunner, I know of every single problem that people had with them. I engaged in the nerf threads and tried to talk sense into people. Besides the tower camping and damage, a major complaint was that the only counter people felt existed was another forge. All those complaints have been dealt with thus far. However, the above is extraneous and getting a bit off topic, and will get nowhere. Allow me to state the main point I was attempting to make: The redline grants protection. Some are able to use that protection in such a way as to severely minimize risk. That throws the risk/reward equation out of balance. If you wish to refute anything I say, refute that.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 642	Posted - 2014.01.12 10:33:00 - [36] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Railguns are pretty much the only counter to Assault dropships. Swarms are ******* useless. Forge guns are ok but leave the user very vulnerable. The reason I say terrible map design is that one side always has a huge advantage. Manus peak is a perfect example of that. So basically people just got bored of bitching about tanks and found something else instead. Bunch of whiny entitled brats. Nope forge guns are quite effective. Especially to a dropship that fits with side guns. I would say the forge gun dropship balance is very good right now. Swarms could probably use a little bit more damage but just a little, they shouldn't be as effective as a forge gun. Then there is the rail tank, which is overly effective at killing dropships. It only takes two shots, and since it can fire so fast dropships barley have time to react. Combine that with fits like triple DMG mod that wouldn't survive without being protected by the redline and you get redline complaints. To sum it up, I can't kill or fight the rail tank, but he can kill me in 1.2 seconds at an 8th of the cost and with no risk. Breaks the bank, the balance and the fun. This problem has existed since beta, but now tanks are running amuck and a milita sica can blow a dropship out of the sky faster than a 1.0 ishukone assault forge gun. Its not fun, which is why pilots are asking for action.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 642	Posted - 2014.01.12 10:58:00 - [37] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: I take it you don't know that dropships can fly higher than a rail tank can shoot? Literally. If the dropship was directly above the tank at max height and the tank turret was pointing straight up, on most maps it's out of range. That is a massive area for dropships to travel in unhindered. How long does it take to get up there? About 3 seconds of just jamming in the boosters button. I use to think that too, until a rail tank that was so far back in the red I couldn't engage rolled onto a slight incline and shot me down at height ceiling on their red line. Bet you didn't know that most rail tanks just go far back enough into their red until they can hit the dropship, doesn't sound like you fly much.... It takes much longer than 3 seconds to get up there. Not that it really matters how high you go. Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: In other words, it had nothing to do with "the only counter of x shouldn't be x". That is just an assumption you shoved in there. Currently the only effective counter to a red line rail tank is another rail tank. I might, and I stress might, be able to get one sitting on the edge. I have to dive on him while me and my gunners open up and chase him into the red then burn out in 8 seconds before my dropship explodes. Still more time than it takes for me to be shot down. If he goes any farther back than the red I can't fight him. I'm seeing quite a few dropship pilots switch to tanks, and why shouldn't they? They cost an 8th of my dropship and don't even have to leave the redline to shoot down prototype vehicles?! Or slaughter infantry for 82,000, so what if I loose one? Still making a profit! Hell I think I might even take up milita tanking just to make some money after so many pythons lost to red line rail tanks. Its bad, very bad. Ask any pilot, they will tell you the same.
abarkrishna WarRavens 262	Posted - 2014.01.12 11:15:00 - [38] - Quote Railguns have always crippled dropships in 2 shots. How is this new? So instead of having the redline you would rather 9 people sit in the mcc and hide? Scrubs will always be scrubs. If they are just gunna sit and hide they will whether their is a redline or not. It should be obvious to you that if there is a redline railgunner being a ***** maybe don't fly around in an assault dropship. Will it kill you that much? I do agree that it is redliner railgunners are nearly impossible to counter is stupid. But to fix that is as simple as adding in some buildings to hide line of sight. Make it so that they can not see objectives from the redline. That is a much better idea than removing the redline. You wanna talk about breaking the bank. Try losing 20 suits a round and make only 100 000 isk. All removing the redline would do is make the already small playerbase even smaller. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
KIRSTY j The Walking Targets 45	Posted - 2014.01.12 11:18:00 - [39] - Quote Blaze Ashra wrote: KIRSTY j wrote: i have said this before. you can kill players in the redline, it's not that safe. would rather redline snipers than most of my team sitting in the MCC. nearly every game is 1 sided and you have no chance of ever getting out of there. You'll get better with practice. Don't spawn on an MCC, get a gallante light frame with profile dampeners and shield extenders and an uplink. Pull back and go around the red blob doing everything they can to kill you. Drop your uplink and move to take a CRU/Supply depot/objective and I guarantee you some people will spawn there and back you up. It's not rocket science. what who says i don't. need players to get out of the MCC to spawn on them in the first place. most times i'm the only person fighting the battle.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 643	Posted - 2014.01.12 11:45:00 - [40] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Railguns have always crippled dropships in 2 shots. How is this new? So instead of having the redline you would rather 9 people sit in the mcc and hide? Scrubs will always be scrubs. If they are just gunna sit and hide they will whether their is a redline or not. It should be obvious to you that if there is a redline railgunner being a ***** maybe don't fly around in an assault dropship. Will it kill you that much? I do agree that it is stupid redline railgunners are nearly impossible to counter is stupid. But to fix that is as simple as adding in some buildings to hide line of sight. Make it so that they can not see objectives from the redline. That is a much better idea than removing the redline. You wanna talk about breaking the bank. Try losing 20 suits a round and make only 100 000 isk. All removing the redline would do is make the already small playerbase even smaller. Woah, I'm not saying remove the redline, personally I think the best fix would be to disable vehicles weapons in friendly redlines. Sure it has always been two shots, but now the rail tank fires faster than assault forge guns. There is no time to react and most redlines give rail tanks perfect via for their 600m range cannons. Yes not flying sucks quite a bit for me. I'm a dedicated dropship pilot. What your asking is if all the millions of skill points and months I've spent training and getting good becoming worthless because of a no skill milita tank that I can't even fight. Sh!t hurts bro.... Were those proto suits? Because anything short of that is better than what I've lost. Try loosing 707k isk per game trying to do your profession, which now requires you to fly into the redline. 100k is a typical payout for pilots, didn't you know? 120k is a good game, 200k if they don't have any av or rail tanks, those are once in a blue moon. Oh and the 113+ mil I spent learning how to fly dropships like an ace for all the good its do e me...

PADDEHATPIGEN BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 120	Posted - 2014.01.12 11:51:00 - [41] - Quote The only thing I hate is the rail tankers that abuse the redline, the only way we have a small chance to kill them is orbital/warbarge strikes and most of the times the can get away from that to. I don't have a problem with redline snipers or anything else on the redline for that matter, I just kill them.
Emerald Bellerophon Nenikekamen 81	Posted - 2014.01.12 12:19:00 - [42] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. Seriously you are a dumbass. Also, the fix should be simpler than your post: make one team's space behind their own redline without any line of sight on the rest of the map. I wish CCP would get their through their skulls, already, so I could stop posting it.
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 135	Posted - 2014.01.12 12:35:00 - [43] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it. They're all in range of sniper rifles if they can shoot out.... Also... Highsec in EVE is a lowered risk environment but you still have chances of being killed, just like "GasP" the redline. So much for your "sh+¡tty" example kid. And your suggestion of dealing with unkillable redlining railtanks would be? The solution to spawn camping isn't a shifty redline mechanic, the correct solution is to create more spawn points for both teams, placed further apart making it impossible f+¦r a team of 16 players to cover them all. Also the redline doesen't prevent spawn camping in the slightest. I've lost count of all the matches where one team basically hugs the redline border, destroying every vehicle that the losing team tries to call in while it's still in mid air with the rdv and gang up onevery player who tries to break out from their spawn, effectively locking them to their starting spawn points until the match is over. So your posts in this thread are simply full of ****. The redline serves no purpose = undeniable fact
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 214	Posted - 2014.01.13 00:13:00 - [44] - Quote 1)it makes sniping a low-no risk to high reward game that is a detriment to the team the sniper is on. 2)it makes redline matches more painful for both sides. 3)it makes AFKing viable to the detriment of active players. I'm not for the strait removal of the red line I would rather see this https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=569299#post569299 as well as a removal of all isk and WP gains from anyone in the red line, you want to get paid fulfill your damn contract.
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 214	Posted - 2014.01.13 00:31:00 - [45] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it. They're all in range of sniper rifles if they can shoot out.... Also... Highsec in EVE is a lowered risk environment but you still have chances of being killed, just like "GasP" the redline. So much for your "sh+¡tty" example kid. the issue is the balance of risk vs reward, in high-sec your return is poor for very low risk, as a redline sniper you can do as well as the people on the ground with little to no risk to you, add to that, that while yes you are arguably "helping", redline snipers provide a worse deterrent and defense then field snipers and often end up stealing kills instead of getting their own targets, because it is move effective for them then providing actual support taking out the reinforcements
Dericha A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 4	Posted - 2014.01.13 01:25:00 - [46] - Quote Redline sniping is annoying- no question. However, I notice the people who don't like the redline look like a lot of TP. In a match this weekend I was stuck in a skirmish and a particularly inept bunch of blewberries. TP has 3 tanks out and and LV, running through the redline, murder-taxing people in the redline hiding, and boxing out both spawn points. The Blewberries are shooting the tanks with small arms and getting run over (so, no kills are really being lost). I'm in a blueprint heavy suit with a militia forge trying to kill their tanks and dodge bullets from Cubs. The ONLY thing stopping me from being completely flanked is the redline. Otherwise, what, run into an organized group of competent players over and over again in the hope that the bluedots get good? That's asinine. Maybe, we need to put a max range on the snipers (people and tanks), so if they want to meaningfully engage, they need to be "in the game" as it were.
RED FARM GOOD OL' B0YS 54	Posted - 2014.01.13 02:41:00 - [47] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. Because they are little bitches. You cannot capture an objective from the redline or a tank. A good 1-2 sniping crew can hold certain objectives and squeak out some decent kills. I say move the redline back even further. There was an awesome mod for BF2 that had maps probably 3 times larger than dust maps. Redline was never an issue because you could literally go far far away from battle. I see no issues with rail tanks or snipers etc. 300 meters out. Public Chat: GOOD OL' B0YS Please note the word B0YS has a zero in it.
abarkrishna WarRavens 264	Posted - 2014.01.13 02:51:00 - [48] - Quote As I have stated before it is as easy to fix as putting some buildings around the redline hiding line of sight so that railsnipers and snipers can not see out of the redline. They can not shoot you if they can not see you. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
abarkrishna WarRavens 264	Posted - 2014.01.13 02:54:00 - [49] - Quote Also I recently read about the new game mode they are introducing called conquest. It seems that the maps we are playing on are part of a much larger map that includes several outposts instead of the one that our maps are currently played on. With larger maps it is less likely that an entire team will get redlined removing the possibility of people abusing the redline. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Soldiersaint Deepspace Digital 676	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:12:00 - [50] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. because all of these idiots believe in a false word called skill. and if your behind the redline you have no skill there is no such thing as skill. shut up and play the game.

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 463	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:49:00 - [51] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Allow me to state the main point I was attempting to make: The redline grants protection. Some are able to use that protection in such a way as to severely minimize risk. That throws the risk/reward equation out of balance. If you wish to refute anything I say, refute that. If you're shooting from the redline your accuracy greatly suffers. That basically equates to lower reward. If you're also firing from the redline you're not covering objectives very well either. Also, there is no protection from counter-sniping in most of those spots, if not all of them. The worst spots to snipe from are all in the redline, why? Because snipers looking for easy kills (ridiculously easy kills I must stress) just turn their scopes toward the redline to pad their stats. Oh was that proto armor and sniper in the redline? Well it's dead now. Basically for another sniper, shooting from the redline is like an assault rifle user standing in the middle of a field and expecting all the other assault rifle users not to spot him. The first thing you do is sweep the obvious spots. :/ Dericha wrote: Maybe, we need to put a max range on the snipers (people and tanks), so if they want to meaningfully engage, they need to be "in the game" as it were. There is a max range already, for those too lazy to try sniping, you'll never know. Also, all maps we play on are basically 1/3 of the planned endgame maps. It used to be you could zoom out to check on the other nodes in the map, but not really anymore. The only map where the other nodes are really obvious is the one that is on a cliff face to the West, and a single tall tower in the middle with the large bridge traveling East. If you look down the hill you can see the other combat node. Eventually it's planned that people will be able to travel between at will during a match, but that's a while out. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming


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