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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
457
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Posted - 2014.01.12 03:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
abarkrishna wrote:Seriously I do not get it.
It's mostly about a group of people who are too lazy to pull a militia grade sniper rifle to pick off people who sit inside it's field.
Basically a pile of whiners who say "If I can't reach it with my Assault Rifle that's no fair cause everything should be catered around me me me me me me!" etc.
The complaints have no value and shall not be considered because they have no evidence the redline is a detriment to the game, rather it's just the opposite, there is more proof that without a redline the gamemodes are broken. Such evidence was the map clearing spawn-campers of old who simply made newcomers quit in entirety. The redline gives a place for the group to recoup and rethink possibly.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
457
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 03:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it.
They're all in range of sniper rifles if they can shoot out....
Also... Highsec in EVE is a lowered risk environment but you still have chances of being killed, just like "GasP" the redline.
So much for your "sh+Ątty" example kid.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
459
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 08:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it. They're all in range of sniper rifles if they can shoot out.... Also... Highsec in EVE is a lowered risk environment but you still have chances of being killed, just like "GasP" the redline. So much for your "sh+Ątty" example kid. Here are some things you may attempt to consider, 'kid': Snipers can embed themselves so far in the redline that the only counter is another sniper. The counter to [x] should never be [x]. That was one of the major complaints that lead to forge guns being nerfed. Tanks with railguns can sit in the redline, able to destroy every vehicle in the match ( a major complaint by drop ship pilots). Given that they can easily back up, out of sight, they are nearly invincible. Often, the only way to effectively counter a redline rail tank is another rail tank. Those are but two issues. They both have some common themes. One in particular is that the redline acts as a magical area that severely reduces the 'risk' portion of of the risk/reward equation. Which is to say, as I so eloquently put it, that the redline defecates on the risk/reward aspect of the game.
I take it you don't know that dropships can fly higher than a rail tank can shoot? Literally. If the dropship was directly above the tank at max height and the tank turret was pointing straight up, on most maps it's out of range. That is a massive area for dropships to travel in unhindered. How long does it take to get up there? About 3 seconds of just jamming in the boosters button.
If you're able to be hit by one of the snipers in those redline positions you are likely trying to redline the other team, which means you're winning... Or just Whining. You can always hit the people in those spots by just going around to the side a bit. I've killed so many of them like that I've lost count.
"The counter to x should never be x" eh? That can be said the same with all rapid-fire class VS single-shot classes of guns at close combat. In close combat the only practical counter for rapid-fire weaponry is rapid-fire weaponry. From a guns perspective that's about the same as single-shot weaponry needed to take out single-shot weaponry.
As soon as they let snipers have better close-combat performance from hipfire.... then you might have an argument that would permit such a change.
Also I see you don't actually read around because "only forges taking out forges" was not the reason they were nerfed. The reason was the high alpha damage and the wide splash damage. Basically it was like if they missed the shot, they got a free sniper round to hit the target instead.
It used to require far less accuracy to be far more lethal. so they changed the accuracy by reducing splash and a bit of range because CCP didn't want to mess with the rooftops. The weapon was designed for vehicle damage primarily, and because at that time they were being used with the sole intention of being anti-infantry across the entire board of use, they deemed it needed a change so that vehicles would no longer just be an afterthought.
In other words, it had nothing to do with "the only counter of x shouldn't be x". That is just an assumption you shoved in there.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
463
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 08:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:
Allow me to state the main point I was attempting to make: The redline grants protection. Some are able to use that protection in such a way as to severely minimize risk. That throws the risk/reward equation out of balance. If you wish to refute anything I say, refute that.
If you're shooting from the redline your accuracy greatly suffers. That basically equates to lower reward. If you're also firing from the redline you're not covering objectives very well either.
Also, there is no protection from counter-sniping in most of those spots, if not all of them. The worst spots to snipe from are all in the redline, why? Because snipers looking for easy kills (ridiculously easy kills I must stress) just turn their scopes toward the redline to pad their stats. Oh was that proto armor and sniper in the redline? Well it's dead now.
Basically for another sniper, shooting from the redline is like an assault rifle user standing in the middle of a field and expecting all the other assault rifle users not to spot him. The first thing you do is sweep the obvious spots. :/
Dericha wrote:Maybe, we need to put a max range on the snipers (people and tanks), so if they want to meaningfully engage, they need to be "in the game" as it were.
There is a max range already, for those too lazy to try sniping, you'll never know.
Also, all maps we play on are basically 1/3 of the planned endgame maps. It used to be you could zoom out to check on the other nodes in the map, but not really anymore.
The only map where the other nodes are really obvious is the one that is on a cliff face to the West, and a single tall tower in the middle with the large bridge traveling East. If you look down the hill you can see the other combat node.
Eventually it's planned that people will be able to travel between at will during a match, but that's a while out.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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