DUST Search - Why is everyone crying about the redline?

Vicious Minotaur wrote:

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:

Vicious Minotaur wrote:

The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it.

They're all in range of sniper rifles if they can shoot out....

Also... Highsec in EVE is a lowered risk environment but you still have chances of being killed, just like "GasP" the redline.
So much for your "sh+¡tty" example kid.

Here are some things you may attempt to consider, 'kid':

Snipers can embed themselves so far in the redline that the only counter is another sniper. The counter to [x] should never be [x]. That was one of the major complaints that lead to forge guns being nerfed.

Tanks with railguns can sit in the redline, able to destroy every vehicle in the match ( a major complaint by drop ship pilots). Given that they can easily back up, out of sight, they are nearly invincible. Often, the only way to effectively counter a redline rail tank is another rail tank.

Those are but two issues. They both have some common themes. One in particular is that the redline acts as a magical area that severely reduces the 'risk' portion of of the risk/reward equation. Which is to say, as I so eloquently put it, that the redline defecates on the risk/reward aspect of the game.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
abarkrishna WarRavens 259	Posted - 2014.01.12 01:52:00 - [1] - Quote Seriously I do not get it. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 128	Posted - 2014.01.12 01:54:00 - [2] - Quote Because it serves no purpose, yet present the opportinity for bad and unskilled players to cower behind the redline unharmed while dealing damage to obviously more skilled opponents.
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2427	Posted - 2014.01.12 01:56:00 - [3] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. Then you're a lost cause.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1173	Posted - 2014.01.12 01:56:00 - [4] - Quote 1/10 try harder next time. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
McFurious TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 431	Posted - 2014.01.12 01:57:00 - [5] - Quote Because it sucks to get stuck behind it and it sucks to beat the other team so bad that they get stuck behind it. Maybe have a time limit. If one team has no objectives a 5 minute timer starts counting down. At least then boring, one sided matches end quicker. Half Irish. Often angry. Closed Beta Masshole
abarkrishna WarRavens 259	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:02:00 - [6] - Quote When being redlined the game already ends extremely quickly. So what if a few guys wanna be bitches and hide let them. It's not like they are helping win the game. Let them hide and get no kills. If your stupid enough to get killed by a redline sniper you should just quit playing. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1173	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:06:00 - [7] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: When being redlined the game already ends extremely quickly. So what if a few guys wanna be bitches and hide let them. It's not like they are helping win the game. Let them hide and get no kills. If your stupid enough to get killed by a redline sniper you should just quit playing. You're absolutely right, it's not like you can't cover objectives from some red lines right? "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 43	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:07:00 - [8] - Quote The red line prevents spawn camping the MCC or ground spawn. Which we saw a lot of before it was put there. However, some have taken it as a 'safety zone' and snipe from it with sniper rifles and rail gun tanks. These have extremely long ranges, and some sniper rifles (Thales) can shoot you from so far away the player hasn't popped in yet to be seen.
abarkrishna WarRavens 259	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:10:00 - [9] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: abarkrishna wrote: When being redlined the game already ends extremely quickly. So what if a few guys wanna be bitches and hide let them. It's not like they are helping win the game. Let them hide and get no kills. If your stupid enough to get killed by a redline sniper you should just quit playing. You're absolutely right, it's not like you can't cover objectives from some red lines right? I think your talking about terrible map design. Manus peak for example. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Scheneighnay McBob Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 3536	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:11:00 - [10] - Quote Because they let that dead horse sit for a little while, now they need to get back to it. We used to have a time machine

Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1173	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:21:00 - [11] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: abarkrishna wrote: When being redlined the game already ends extremely quickly. So what if a few guys wanna be bitches and hide let them. It's not like they are helping win the game. Let them hide and get no kills. If your stupid enough to get killed by a redline sniper you should just quit playing. You're absolutely right, it's not like you can't cover objectives from some red lines right? I think your talking about terrible map design. Manus peak for example. The funny part about that is that map design wouldn't matter without the redline, however people can still abuse the redline on better designed maps. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
mollerz Minja Scouts 1772	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:22:00 - [12] - Quote They should make the redline death timer 60 seconds. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 403	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:27:00 - [13] - Quote Because rail turrets and tanks can sit in it and take out my ADS all the way across the map. When I try to fight them I can't do enough damage in what little time I can spend behind the redzone. I don't mind people using it to move around the battlefield, but I remember some guy sitting back at the spawn and calling a rail tank out when we had armor/DS's only to recall his tank when there was no targets. That was a very satisfying suicide jeep kill i must admit, literally within seconds of the match ending. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
negative49er The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 484	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:31:00 - [14] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. keep getting kill by someone you can't kill back is a pain Dedicated Shotgun Scout
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9915	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:33:00 - [15] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. Then you're a lost cause. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 366	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:33:00 - [16] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK0rN2e_5hI Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.
LEHON Xeon Pradox XVI Proficiency V. 57	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:33:00 - [17] - Quote Far as I'm concerned, it's another thing that can disappear, along with AA. Necrophillia: That Uncontrollable Urge To Crack Open A Cold One.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 457	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:17:00 - [18] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. It's mostly about a group of people who are too lazy to pull a militia grade sniper rifle to pick off people who sit inside it's field. Basically a pile of whiners who say "If I can't reach it with my Assault Rifle that's no fair cause everything should be catered around me me me me me me!" etc. The complaints have no value and shall not be considered because they have no evidence the redline is a detriment to the game, rather it's just the opposite, there is more proof that without a redline the gamemodes are broken. Such evidence was the map clearing spawn-campers of old who simply made newcomers quit in entirety. The redline gives a place for the group to recoup and rethink possibly. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 530	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:23:00 - [19] - Quote The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it.
McFurious TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 432	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:37:00 - [20] - Quote mollerz wrote: They should make the redline death timer 60 seconds. Maybe make an actual home objective behind the redline, if it gets captured, game over. Half Irish. Often angry. Closed Beta Masshole

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 457	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:38:00 - [21] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it. They're all in range of sniper rifles if they can shoot out.... Also... Highsec in EVE is a lowered risk environment but you still have chances of being killed, just like "GasP" the redline. So much for your "sh+¡tty" example kid. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 530	Posted - 2014.01.12 04:05:00 - [22] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it. They're all in range of sniper rifles if they can shoot out.... Also... Highsec in EVE is a lowered risk environment but you still have chances of being killed, just like "GasP" the redline. So much for your "sh+¡tty" example kid. Here are some things you may attempt to consider, 'kid': Snipers can embed themselves so far in the redline that the only counter is another sniper. The counter to [x] should never be [x]. That was one of the major complaints that lead to forge guns being nerfed. Tanks with railguns can sit in the redline, able to destroy every vehicle in the match ( a major complaint by drop ship pilots). Given that they can easily back up, out of sight, they are nearly invincible. Often, the only way to effectively counter a redline rail tank is another rail tank. Those are but two issues. They both have some common themes. One in particular is that the redline acts as a magical area that severely reduces the 'risk' portion of of the risk/reward equation. Which is to say, as I so eloquently put it, that the redline defecates on the risk/reward aspect of the game.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Redline Defense Force Seekers of the Unseen 277	Posted - 2014.01.12 04:33:00 - [23] - Quote My knives take care of very-close-to redline snipers just fine. Charge Slash Awww, where you to busy looking through the scope of your Thale's? That's to bad now isn't it? :D Dropship Surfer I will never stop killing you. Basically, kind of a big deal.
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 257	Posted - 2014.01.12 04:50:00 - [24] - Quote I have pitched it 1000 times, if you spend more than 2 min in your own red line you get killed for cowardance, your a merc whos sent there on a mission, and if you refuse they should kill you, kick you from battle and find someone else who will do the contract.
Slim Winning BIG BAD W0LVES 14	Posted - 2014.01.12 04:53:00 - [25] - Quote Truth be told. The redline can get annoying but it has a purpose and I can't think of a better system myself. I'll admit that I snipe with my rail tank often enough. It just so happens to have the best highground to do it with. Maybe cut the enemy entrance into the redline to 10 seconds. And, cut WP obtained from behind the redline by 75%?
Big miku Expert Intervention Caldari State 329	Posted - 2014.01.12 05:06:00 - [26] - Quote Slim Winning wrote: Truth be told. The redline can get annoying but it has a purpose and I can't think of a better system myself Set up super OP (CRU level HP and Advance level damage) blaster turrets around the Spawn zones increase their engagement range and AI tracking and firing protocol, strategically place some bunkers around them to prevent them from being railgun snipped, then remove the redline. For extra OP add Light armor reppers to the turrets. Now there are powerful turrets that will auto kill things that linger around the spawns but can be killed with a lot of effort. and you can drive within range of redline tanks and kill them but the turrents will kill you if you hang about. I've done a lot of thinking on this. Set up some "Staging Areas", little base camps with exits on the sides and my OP turrets in them. Tanks and snipers can't snipe out of these nor can others easily snipe into them. Now remove the redline.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 47	Posted - 2014.01.12 05:10:00 - [27] - Quote Slim Winning wrote: Truth be told. The redline can get annoying but it has a purpose and I can't think of a better system myself. I'll admit that I snipe with my rail tank often enough. It just so happens to have the best highground to do it with. Maybe cut the enemy entrance into the redline to 10 seconds. And, cut WP obtained from behind the redline by 75%? Perhaps, but I think a better solution would be to edit the maps themselves so that there isn't a 'high ground' so appealing in the red zones, or put a screen of some kind between the red zone and the rest of the map. Like a ridge or buildings just outside of the red zone.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 459	Posted - 2014.01.12 08:05:00 - [28] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it. They're all in range of sniper rifles if they can shoot out.... Also... Highsec in EVE is a lowered risk environment but you still have chances of being killed, just like "GasP" the redline. So much for your "sh+¡tty" example kid. Here are some things you may attempt to consider, 'kid': Snipers can embed themselves so far in the redline that the only counter is another sniper. The counter to [x] should never be [x]. That was one of the major complaints that lead to forge guns being nerfed. Tanks with railguns can sit in the redline, able to destroy every vehicle in the match ( a major complaint by drop ship pilots). Given that they can easily back up, out of sight, they are nearly invincible. Often, the only way to effectively counter a redline rail tank is another rail tank. Those are but two issues. They both have some common themes. One in particular is that the redline acts as a magical area that severely reduces the 'risk' portion of of the risk/reward equation. Which is to say, as I so eloquently put it, that the redline defecates on the risk/reward aspect of the game. I take it you don't know that dropships can fly higher than a rail tank can shoot? Literally. If the dropship was directly above the tank at max height and the tank turret was pointing straight up, on most maps it's out of range. That is a massive area for dropships to travel in unhindered. How long does it take to get up there? About 3 seconds of just jamming in the boosters button. If you're able to be hit by one of the snipers in those redline positions you are likely trying to redline the other team, which means you're winning... Or just Whining. You can always hit the people in those spots by just going around to the side a bit. I've killed so many of them like that I've lost count. "The counter to x should never be x" eh? That can be said the same with all rapid-fire class VS single-shot classes of guns at close combat. In close combat the only practical counter for rapid-fire weaponry is rapid-fire weaponry. From a guns perspective that's about the same as single-shot weaponry needed to take out single-shot weaponry. As soon as they let snipers have better close-combat performance from hipfire.... then you might have an argument that would permit such a change. Also I see you don't actually read around because "only forges taking out forges" was not the reason they were nerfed. The reason was the high alpha damage and the wide splash damage. Basically it was like if they missed the shot, they got a free sniper round to hit the target instead. It used to require far less accuracy to be far more lethal. so they changed the accuracy by reducing splash and a bit of range because CCP didn't want to mess with the rooftops. The weapon was designed for vehicle damage primarily, and because at that time they were being used with the sole intention of being anti-infantry across the entire board of use, they deemed it needed a change so that vehicles would no longer just be an afterthought. In other words, it had nothing to do with "the only counter of x shouldn't be x". That is just an assumption you shoved in there. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
abarkrishna WarRavens 261	Posted - 2014.01.12 08:35:00 - [29] - Quote McFurious wrote: mollerz wrote: They should make the redline death timer 60 seconds. Maybe make an actual home objective behind the redline, if it gets captured, game over. This I could get behind. But really longer games pay more in both isk and Sp so I could see it hurting the economy a little. As far as the risk / reward goes when being redlined there is virtually no reward. How is it logical to risk far more than they would be rewarded? Most players are not rich and can not afford to lose a ton of suits to campers waiting for idiots to run out of the redline like fish in a barrel. To suggest they just be lambs to the slaughter is just people being greedy pricks. Railguns are already plagued by the horrid draw distance. It is a miracle if anyone can see an enemy at 300 units of measurement when aiming down a railguns sights. Railguns are pretty much the only counter to Assault dropships. Swarms are ******* useless. Forge guns are ok but leave the user very vulnerable. The reason I say terrible map design is that one side always has a huge advantage. Manus peak is a perfect example of that. So basically people just got bored of bitching about tanks and found something else instead. Bunch of whiny entitled brats. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 137	Posted - 2014.01.12 08:37:00 - [30] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Seriously I do not get it. cause people are hideing in it what don't you get we want people to come out and play. The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy"s will to be imposed upon him. Sun Tzu



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