DUST Search - Why is everyone crying about the redline?

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:

[qu

I take it you don't know that dropships can fly higher than a rail tank can shoot? Literally. If the dropship was directly above the tank at max height and the tank turret was pointing straight up, on most maps it's out of range. That is a massive area for dropships to travel in unhindered. How long does it take to get up there? About 3 seconds of just jamming in the boosters button.

If you're able to be hit by one of the snipers in those redline positions you are likely trying to redline the other team, which means you're winning... Or just Whining. You can always hit the people in those spots by just going around to the side a bit. I've killed so many of them like that I've lost count.

"The counter to x should never be x" eh? That can be said the same with all rapid-fire class VS single-shot classes of guns at close combat. In close combat the only practical counter for rapid-fire weaponry is rapid-fire weaponry. From a guns perspective that's about the same as single-shot weaponry needed to take out single-shot weaponry.
As soon as they let snipers have better close-combat performance from hipfire.... then you might have an argument that would permit such a change.

Also I see you don't actually read around because "only forges taking out forges" was not the reason they were nerfed. The reason was the high alpha damage and the wide splash damage. Basically it was like if they missed the shot, they got a free sniper round to hit the target instead.
It used to require far less accuracy to be far more lethal. so they changed the accuracy by reducing splash and a bit of range because CCP didn't want to mess with the rooftops. The weapon was designed for vehicle damage primarily, and because at that time they were being used with the sole intention of being anti-infantry across the entire board of use, they deemed it needed a change so that vehicles would no longer just be an afterthought.

In other words, it had nothing to do with "the only counter of x shouldn't be x". That is just an assumption you shoved in there.


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Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 530	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:23:00 - [1] - Quote The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 530	Posted - 2014.01.12 04:05:00 - [2] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: The redline takes the risk/reward that is in the game, and then defecates on it. They're all in range of sniper rifles if they can shoot out.... Also... Highsec in EVE is a lowered risk environment but you still have chances of being killed, just like "GasP" the redline. So much for your "sh+¡tty" example kid. Here are some things you may attempt to consider, 'kid': Snipers can embed themselves so far in the redline that the only counter is another sniper. The counter to [x] should never be [x]. That was one of the major complaints that lead to forge guns being nerfed. Tanks with railguns can sit in the redline, able to destroy every vehicle in the match ( a major complaint by drop ship pilots). Given that they can easily back up, out of sight, they are nearly invincible. Often, the only way to effectively counter a redline rail tank is another rail tank. Those are but two issues. They both have some common themes. One in particular is that the redline acts as a magical area that severely reduces the 'risk' portion of of the risk/reward equation. Which is to say, as I so eloquently put it, that the redline defecates on the risk/reward aspect of the game.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 535	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:24:00 - [3] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: [qu I take it you don't know that dropships can fly higher than a rail tank can shoot? Literally. If the dropship was directly above the tank at max height and the tank turret was pointing straight up, on most maps it's out of range. That is a massive area for dropships to travel in unhindered. How long does it take to get up there? About 3 seconds of just jamming in the boosters button. If you're able to be hit by one of the snipers in those redline positions you are likely trying to redline the other team, which means you're winning... Or just Whining. You can always hit the people in those spots by just going around to the side a bit. I've killed so many of them like that I've lost count. "The counter to x should never be x" eh? That can be said the same with all rapid-fire class VS single-shot classes of guns at close combat. In close combat the only practical counter for rapid-fire weaponry is rapid-fire weaponry. From a guns perspective that's about the same as single-shot weaponry needed to take out single-shot weaponry. As soon as they let snipers have better close-combat performance from hipfire.... then you might have an argument that would permit such a change. Also I see you don't actually read around because "only forges taking out forges" was not the reason they were nerfed. The reason was the high alpha damage and the wide splash damage. Basically it was like if they missed the shot, they got a free sniper round to hit the target instead. It used to require far less accuracy to be far more lethal. so they changed the accuracy by reducing splash and a bit of range because CCP didn't want to mess with the rooftops. The weapon was designed for vehicle damage primarily, and because at that time they were being used with the sole intention of being anti-infantry across the entire board of use, they deemed it needed a change so that vehicles would no longer just be an afterthought. In other words, it had nothing to do with "the only counter of x shouldn't be x". That is just an assumption you shoved in there. Ok. I take it that all the complaints about rail tanks that experienced dedicated dropship pilots have are completely unfounded... Your quip about the redline sniper and my team winning... Well. An assumption. Grab out a Thales [for example] , and you can be far back in the redline, so far that even a suicide mission is impossible to counter them. And they can shoot at least to the middle of the map, where the majority of any action should be happening. Hard to counter, unless you counter snipe. which many here on the forums have a problem with, me included. As for forges... well, being a dedicated forge gunner, I know of every single problem that people had with them. I engaged in the nerf threads and tried to talk sense into people. Besides the tower camping and damage, a major complaint was that the only counter people felt existed was another forge. All those complaints have been dealt with thus far. However, the above is extraneous and getting a bit off topic, and will get nowhere. Allow me to state the main point I was attempting to make: The redline grants protection. Some are able to use that protection in such a way as to severely minimize risk. That throws the risk/reward equation out of balance. If you wish to refute anything I say, refute that.