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My Turn to Pass Judgement on the Singularity Leak

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Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1509	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:03:00 - [1] - Quote So as Many of you are aware Information regarding the PROPOSED changes of skills to New and Exsisting suits, were leaked, from the Singularity Server. When it comes to skill bonuses I don't think people should be penalised for not using specific equipment or weapons. As such here is my Judgement on the leaked information. Commando Skills wrote: Suit Skill: +5% Light Weapon Reload Speed per Level Gallante Skill: +2% Damage to Hybrid-Blaster Weaponry per Level Caldari Skill: +2% Damage to Hybrid-Railgun Weaponry per Level Amarr Skill: +2% Damage to Laser Weaponry per Level Minmatar: +2% Damage to Explosove/Projectile Weaponry per Level Now I think the suit bonus here is perfect, it allows the commando to be best in class without overpowering it. However at this point in time I am still skeptical about the race bonuses, while they do indeed make sense and are very good bonuses, we don't have a full complement of weapons. Until we have a racial variant of the shotgun, sniper, AOE, Ligjt AV and Unique Weaponry this bonus makes things like a Mass Driver on say a Gallante NEAR pointless. Assault Skills wrote: Suit Bonus: +2% ROF bonus per Level Gallante Skill: +5% Armour Plate Bonus per Level Caldari Skill: +5% Shield Extender Bonus per Level Amarr Bonus: +5% Armour Repper Bonus per Level Minmatar Bonus: +5% Damage Mod Bonus per Level I personally like the Suit bonus for Assaults, it effects ALMOST every weapon wieldable by the suit, encourages accuracy and skill and makes the Assault better for Assaulting than the Logi Units. I also think the Caldari and Gallante Bonuses are very well though out. As they make playing to the suits strengths easier. However I believe the Amarr Skill is counter productive, if you are going to gkve Caldari and Gallante suits tank bonuses, you should really give some to the Amarr as well. My suggestion +3% Armour Plate Bonus +3% Shield Extender Bonus. As for the Minmatar bonus I think giving a bonus to Damage Mods is a bad Idea period. Instead play to the suits strengths. +5% Armour Repper Bonus +5% Shield Repper Bonus. Logistics Skills wrote: Suit Bonus: -10% Equipment Fitting Cost per Level Gallante Bonus: +10% Active Scan Time +10% Scan Prescision for Active Scanners Caldari Bonus: +10% Hive Capacity +10% Nanite Transfer Rate Amarr Bonus: +10% Drop Uplink Jumps -10% Spawn Time Counter Minmatar Bonus: +25% Repair Tool Range +25% Repair Rate Personally I believe these are the worst of the proposed skill changes currently on Singularity. I agree with the suit bonus whole heartedly but not the racial bonuses. I thinkmits unfair to give specific equipmemt bonuses to specific suits. If Minmatar doesn't play medic his bonus is useless, I Amarr doesn't use uplinks pointless. These skills also encourage the spam of uplinks, hives and scanners by the respective suits. If you insist on giving bonuses to equipment for each suit, make it something less game breaking, like a fitting cost reduction. Otherwise I personally believe these racial bonuses need another look at here. As for Heavy Bonuses: I think they are perfect, it reduces the heavies weakness slightly to a specific ammo type. However CCP need to be prepared for the Heavy Units becoming overpowered, it could quite easily happen. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1257	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:16:00 - [2] - Quote Good analysis. I agree. "We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 946	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:17:00 - [3] - Quote 1) I actually like MOST of the Logistics changes. While I'm not a fan of the 'nerf', it plays well with the lore and mechanics of EVE. For example, the Gallente in EVE are dual-tanking (Dunno why they're Armor in DUST) E-War masters. Much of their equipment and ships focus on scanning and not being scanned. The bonus to Active Scanners amplify this, HOWEVER I'll make a point later on. The Minmatar, also have ships better suited for Logistics (From what I understand), so a Repair Tool bonus isn't completely illogical. I'll say though, that a bonus only applying to one module is only semi-useful when you have more than one module. My proposal: Minmatar: Bonus to ALL Triage Equipment (Repair Tools, Injectors, and Shield Reppers when they come out) Gallente: Bonus to ALL E-War Equipment (Active Scanner, and the SoonTM HUD Jammer, and Webifier) Amarr: Bonus to ALL Rally Equipment (Drop Uplinks, and any other things that come out soon that help rallying) Caldari: Bonus to ALL In-Direct Support Equipment* (Nanohives, anything else that meets the reqs) *In-Direct support, I mean things that help teammates, but only if the teammate knows how to use it. For example, you can give someone ammunition, but if it matters or not depends on their aim. If someone else can think of things (Even if not released) that the Amarr/Caldari use, be my guest. Assault Bonuses: I like them. I'll point it out though that in EVE, the Amarr invented the Armor Repairer, so that probably has something to do with it. Commando Bonuses: VERY nice. :D Scout Bonuses: None? D: Sentinel Bonuses: Great! It'll actually act like a defensive class now! +1 ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
dust badger SOUND Mercs Of Sound Mind 357	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:19:00 - [4] - Quote i feel that giving the minmy a damage bonus and amarr a rep bonus is very unfair. Mimny should of been speed or something or stamina
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1257	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:22:00 - [5] - Quote dust badger wrote: i feel that giving the minmy a damage bonus and amarr a rep bonus is very unfair. Mimny should of been speed or something or stamina Its not only unfair but it will promote the ubiqutious presense of minmatar assaults on the battlefield making the choice of four races in the class a moot point. People go to the easiest option, you can bet that people will see $$ with that damage bonus. "We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2091	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:27:00 - [6] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Now I think the suit bonus here is perfect, it allows the commando to be best in class without overpowering it. However at this point in time I am still skeptical about the race bonuses, while they do indeed make sense and are very good bonuses, we don't have a full complement of weapons. Until we have a racial variant of the shotgun, sniper, AOE, Ligjt AV and Unique Weaponry this bonus makes things like a Mass Driver on say a Gallante NEAR pointless. Specialty Weapons: Gallente: Shot Gun Minmitar: Mass Driver Caldari: Sniper Rifle Amarr: Laser Rifle See we have the full set. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 946	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:32:00 - [7] - Quote Actually, the Minmatar Assault SHOULD have a speed bonus. OR, how about this: Shield Recharge Delay bonus. This will promote the use of hit-and-run tactics. Something the Minmatar SHOULD excel in. Look at the MInmatar Scout. If I get shot in one, then without ANY modules, my Shield is back up in 2 seconds flat. This makes it an excellent "get-in, kill, get-out" fit. @Fox, he meant there needs to be something like a Gallente Mass Driver, or a Caldari Shotgun, so that you can have different weapons on different suits without gimping yourself. Personally, that limitation makes it much better. Being able to fit any weapon on any Commando and STILL have that bonus would make choice of race completely obsolete. Get a Caldari, get a Shotgun, no reason to go Gallente. Get a Gallente, get a G-Sniper RIfle, no reason to go Caldari. See what I'm saying here? That being said, can't wait for the lolCommandoSnipers. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2091	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:32:00 - [8] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Assault Skills wrote: Suit Bonus: +2% ROF bonus per Level Gallante Skill: +5% Armour Plate Bonus per Level Caldari Skill: +5% Shield Extender Bonus per Level Amarr Bonus: +5% Armour Repper Bonus per Level Minmatar Bonus: +5% Damage Mod Bonus per Level I personally like the Suit bonus for Assaults, it effects ALMOST every weapon wieldable by the suit, encourages accuracy and skill and makes the Assault better for Assaulting than the Logi Units. I also think the Caldari and Gallante Bonuses are very well though out. As they make playing to the suits strengths easier. However I believe the Amarr Skill is counter productive, if you are going to gkve Caldari and Gallante suits tank bonuses, you should really give some to the Amarr as well. My suggestion +3% Armour Plate Bonus +3% Shield Extender Bonus. As for the Minmatar bonus I think giving a bonus to Damage Mods is a bad Idea period. Instead play to the suits strengths. +5% Armour Repper Bonus +5% Shield Repper Bonus. If the Amarr Assault suit has a lot of base armor, then the bonus may be good. As for the Minmitar bonus, see my post: Proposed Minmitar Assault suit bonuse (For those who failed Math) Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 590	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:37:00 - [9] - Quote iceyburnz wrote: dust badger wrote: i feel that giving the minmy a damage bonus and amarr a rep bonus is very unfair. Mimny should of been speed or something or stamina Its not only unfair but it will promote the ubiqutious presense of minmatar assaults on the battlefield making the choice of four races in the class a moot point. People go to the easiest option, you can bet that people will see $$ with that damage bonus. They will still need to cut down the other tanked assaults and if they dont see the enemy first their advantage is mostly lost. I thought that is the point of raider styled play. If speed is only a minimal difference (possibly due to game limitations or maybe design now) and its harder to hide because of scanning and the suit having limited low slots then this is the best option imo. Many people will flock because they see damage buff but all that glitters...
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 795	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:37:00 - [10] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Now I think the suit bonus here is perfect, it allows the commando to be best in class without overpowering it. However at this point in time I am still skeptical about the race bonuses, while they do indeed make sense and are very good bonuses, we don't have a full complement of weapons. Until we have a racial variant of the shotgun, sniper, AOE, Ligjt AV and Unique Weaponry this bonus makes things like a Mass Driver on say a Gallante NEAR pointless. Specialty Weapons: Gallente: Shot Gun Minmitar: Mass Driver Caldari: Sniper Rifle Amarr: Laser Rifle See we have the full set. Light AV: Gallente: Plasma Cannon Minmatar: Nothing (although the Min Commando bonus would affect the Swarm Launcher) Caldari: Swarm Launcher (although the Cal Commando bonus does not affect it) Amarr Nothing Not the full set.

Ankbar Latrommi Immortal Guides 19	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:44:00 - [11] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: @Fox, he meant there needs to be something like a Gallente Mass Driver, or a Caldari Shotgun, so that you can have different weapons on different suits without gimping yourself. Personally, that limitation makes it much better. Being able to fit any weapon on any Commando and STILL have that bonus would make choice of race completely obsolete. Get a Caldari, get a Shotgun, no reason to go Gallente. Get a Gallente, get a G-Sniper RIfle, no reason to go Caldari. See what I'm saying here? That's how I heard the OP. And I'm completely against it. One doesn't complain because the Drake is useless with lazors or that a shield-tanked Prophecy dies too fast. The races have their pros & cons and it should remain so. If you want to run shotguns and you picked Caldari, then you'll eventually need to spend the SP skiling into the right suits and weapons. Maybe the sprint to lvl 5 will slow down too, make folks choose between flexibility or specialization(while their char is still young-ish.) And to my knowledge, Gallie ships are armour tanked, not hybrid tanked. If anything they have the strongest structure efp, and we all know real men(tm) hull tank. Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 222	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:47:00 - [12] - Quote Caldari assault got super nerfed.....again. The not Logic Bomb! -->We need better comms!<--
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2092	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:51:00 - [13] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Now I think the suit bonus here is perfect, it allows the commando to be best in class without overpowering it. However at this point in time I am still skeptical about the race bonuses, while they do indeed make sense and are very good bonuses, we don't have a full complement of weapons. Until we have a racial variant of the shotgun, sniper, AOE, Ligjt AV and Unique Weaponry this bonus makes things like a Mass Driver on say a Gallante NEAR pointless. Specialty Weapons: Gallente: Shot Gun Minmitar: Mass Driver Caldari: Sniper Rifle Amarr: Laser Rifle See we have the full set. Light AV: Gallente: Plasma Cannon Minmatar: Nothing (although the Min Commando bonus would affect the Swarm Launcher) Caldari: Swarm Launcher (although the Cal Commando bonus does not affect it) Amarr Nothing Not the full set. There is not even a rumour of an Amarr light AV weapon. I donGÇÖt think there are any immediate plans to have a full set of light AV weapons. I think the point of the Commando bonus was to make sure that the bonus applied to the Infantry rifle and the specialty weapon for each race. With two light weapons there is a good chance that at least one of them will benefit from the bonus, particularly since people will likely skill into the Commando suit that supports their preferred weapon. Interesting point about the Minmatar Commando bonus effecting the Swarm Launcher though. And that the Gallente bonus effects 3 weapons. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1511	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:52:00 - [14] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Now I think the suit bonus here is perfect, it allows the commando to be best in class without overpowering it. However at this point in time I am still skeptical about the race bonuses, while they do indeed make sense and are very good bonuses, we don't have a full complement of weapons. Until we have a racial variant of the shotgun, sniper, AOE, Ligjt AV and Unique Weaponry this bonus makes things like a Mass Driver on say a Gallante NEAR pointless. Specialty Weapons: Gallente: Shot Gun Minmitar: Mass Driver Caldari: Sniper Rifle Amarr: Laser Rifle See we have the full set. No they should be done like the rifles are, 4 rof everything. Hence the Minmatar Prescision Rifle and So on. There should be 4 shotguns, 4 AOE weapons, 4 Sniper Rifles, 4 entirely unique weapons. That I would consider a full set. Then the commando bonus can't be accused of pinning you to a playstyle, only an ammo type. Much Fairer Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 947	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:56:00 - [15] - Quote Ankbar Latrommi wrote: And to my knowledge, Gallie ships are armour tanked, not hybrid tanked. If anything they have the strongest structure efp, and we all know real men(tm) hull tank. They're Dual-Tanked AND have the most Hull. The Algos, for example, has 5 highs and 3 lows. The Vexor is 5/5/5, and just generally don't LEAN towards Armor Tanking on most of their ships However, i'm not going to say that they don't have Armor Tanking ships. It's just that most of their ships are either dual-tanked or slightly leaning towards shield, but not as heavily as Caldari. What I think they should do to solve 50% of their problems, is increase SP payouts, and decrease suit SP cost. It doesn't cost anywhere near 1 million SP to max out Frigates, Destroyers, and Cruisers. I maxed out Hybrid Weaponry, Frigates, Drones, and I have level IV in Destroyers, and I only have around ~500k SP. It shouldn't be a grind to get new stuff. However, with that change, they should add in real-time skill training. If anything, it makes EVE players more at home, and it also gives DUST players a reason to stay. I'd play the game a lot more if I had to wait for a skill to train, just because it'd be something to look forward to. Also add a training queue, and all that stuff. Generally make skills work more like EVE. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2092	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:57:00 - [16] - Quote Marlin Kirby wrote: Caldari assault got super nerfed.....again. Caldari assault got a stealth damage buff. They can get the same effect from two Shield Extenders that another suit would get from 3 shield extenders, so they can free up a slot to fit an extra Damage Mod. Plus 2 shield Extenders has less recharge delay than 3 shield extenders. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1511	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:57:00 - [17] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Assault Skills wrote: Suit Bonus: +2% ROF bonus per Level Gallante Skill: +5% Armour Plate Bonus per Level Caldari Skill: +5% Shield Extender Bonus per Level Amarr Bonus: +5% Armour Repper Bonus per Level Minmatar Bonus: +5% Damage Mod Bonus per Level I personally like the Suit bonus for Assaults, it effects ALMOST every weapon wieldable by the suit, encourages accuracy and skill and makes the Assault better for Assaulting than the Logi Units. I also think the Caldari and Gallante Bonuses are very well though out. As they make playing to the suits strengths easier. However I believe the Amarr Skill is counter productive, if you are going to gkve Caldari and Gallante suits tank bonuses, you should really give some to the Amarr as well. My suggestion +3% Armour Plate Bonus +3% Shield Extender Bonus. As for the Minmatar bonus I think giving a bonus to Damage Mods is a bad Idea period. Instead play to the suits strengths. +5% Armour Repper Bonus +5% Shield Repper Bonus. If the Amarr Assault suit has a lot of base armor, then the bonus may be good. As for the Minmitar bonus, see my post: Proposed Minmitar Assault suit bonuse (For those who failed Math) Edit: Basically the Minmitar Assault bonus allows them to give up one Damage Mod to get more tank. Yes, if you look at the numbers the sweat spot is 2 damage mods, not 3. While the Caldari bonus will probably allow them to give up a shield extender in favour of an additional damage mod. (I have not crunched the numbers, but assume they are similar to the Minmitar damage mod numbers.) Amarr has the highest base EHP, but less than Shields than Caldari and less armour than Gallante, here in Dust the Amarr are the perfect bricktanker (now that shields and armour are on par). Hence my suggested bonus. While the Minmatar skill does lend to hit and run, having multiple damage mods on a minnie suit is unlikely due to the lower fiting space. As such better all round repping ability is more fitting, in my opinion. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 948	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:59:00 - [18] - Quote Marlin Kirby wrote: Caldari assault got super nerfed.....again. Caldari Assault didn't get nerfed, it's bonus (Since 1.3) has always been 5% to Shield Extenders. :P ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1511	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:01:00 - [19] - Quote Ankbar Latrommi wrote: Artificer Ghost wrote: @Fox, he meant there needs to be something like a Gallente Mass Driver, or a Caldari Shotgun, so that you can have different weapons on different suits without gimping yourself. Personally, that limitation makes it much better. Being able to fit any weapon on any Commando and STILL have that bonus would make choice of race completely obsolete. Get a Caldari, get a Shotgun, no reason to go Gallente. Get a Gallente, get a G-Sniper RIfle, no reason to go Caldari. See what I'm saying here? That's how I heard the OP. And I'm completely against it. One doesn't complain because the Drake is useless with lazors or that a shield-tanked Prophecy dies too fast. The races have their pros & cons and it should remain so. If you want to run shotguns and you picked Caldari, then you'll eventually need to spend the SP skiling into the right suits and weapons. Maybe the sprint to lvl 5 will slow down too, make folks choose between flexibility or specialization(while their char is still young-ish.) And to my knowledge, Gallie ships are armour tanked, not hybrid tanked. If anything they have the strongest structure efp, and we all know real men(tm) hull tank. Fair enough you don't have to agree with me, but if there were to be 4 shotguns the gallante would be the best, but for people who play as a different race the other shotguns will have their perks to. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2092	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:06:00 - [20] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Now I think the suit bonus here is perfect, it allows the commando to be best in class without overpowering it. However at this point in time I am still skeptical about the race bonuses, while they do indeed make sense and are very good bonuses, we don't have a full complement of weapons. Until we have a racial variant of the shotgun, sniper, AOE, Ligjt AV and Unique Weaponry this bonus makes things like a Mass Driver on say a Gallante NEAR pointless. Specialty Weapons: Gallente: Shot Gun Minmitar: Mass Driver Caldari: Sniper Rifle Amarr: Laser Rifle See we have the full set. No they should be done like the rifles are, 4 rof everything. Hence the Minmatar Prescision Rifle and So on. There should be 4 shotguns, 4 AOE weapons, 4 Sniper Rifles, 4 entirely unique weapons. That I would consider a full set. Then the commando bonus can't be accused of pinning you to a playstyle, only an ammo type. Much Fairer I disagree. Both the Suits and the Weapons reflect the racial fighting stile. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.

Ankbar Latrommi Immortal Guides 21	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:07:00 - [21] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: They're Dual-Tanked AND have the most Hull. The Algos, for example, has 5 highs and 3 lows. The Vexor is 5/5/5, and just generally don't LEAN towards Armor Tanking on most of their ships However, i'm not going to say that they don't have Armor Tanking ships. It's just that most of their ships are either dual-tanked or slightly leaning towards shield, but not as heavily as Caldari. Really?? I have never, never seen a dual-tank Gallie ship. The Algos is a bit too new for me, but the others I'm more familiar with. Lows get tank and magnet fields and/or TE for dps, and mids get mwd/ab, point, web, and maybe ewar. Where are some fits you've seen with dual tank, like on kb or such? (I don't mean to expose your Eve Online alliance, I just want to see the fits.) I took a quick look at fits on battleclinic, and every random one I brought up was like what I described. makes me want to whip out efit and build me a dual tank brutix. :D Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
Ankbar Latrommi Immortal Guides 21	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:09:00 - [22] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Fair enough you don't have to agree with me, but if there were to be 4 shotguns the gallante would be the best, but for people who play as a different race the other shotguns will have their perks to. Okay, I can accept that. I think I'd like it even more if they did, for example, a 'shotgun' for the Amarr which used laser technology in an unconventional way. That would explain their lesser stats, and stay within the tech strengths of the races. Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2092	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:12:00 - [23] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Amarr has the highest base EHP, but less than Shields than Caldari and less armour than Gallante, here in Dust the Amarr are the perfect bricktanker (now that shields and armour are on par). Hence my suggested bonus. While the Minmatar skill does lend to hit and run, having multiple damage mods on a minnie suit is unlikely due to the lower fiting space. As such better all round repping ability is more fitting, in my opinion. If the Amarr have high shields and high Armor, the bonus means that in the time it takes them to get their Shields back, they will have gotten much of their Armor back too. 2 Armor Repair will act like 3 Armor Repair on any other suit. With the Minmatar bonuse 2 Damage Mods are the same as 3 damage mods on another suit, which helps overcome the tight fitting restrictions, and allows them to equip and extra extender. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 948	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:15:00 - [24] - Quote Ankbar Latrommi wrote: Really?? I have never, never seen a dual-tank Gallie ship. The Algos is a bit too new for me, but the others I'm more familiar with. Lows get tank and magnet fields and/or TE for dps, and mids get mwd/ab, point, web, and maybe ewar. Where are some fits you've seen with dual tank, like on kb or such? (I don't mean to expose your Eve Online alliance, I just want to see the fits.) I took a quick look at fits on battleclinic, and every random one I brought up was like what I described. makes me want to whip out efit and build me a dual tank brutix. :D Oops. I forgot that Med Slots are used for Shield Tanking, not the High Slots. #dustderp I'm insanely new to EVE (Or at least this account is. I've played many trials. First time purchasing), so no alliance. Started around 4 days ago, but progressing very quickly. Did a WH run the other day (Had to leave because a Stratios hopped in. Estimated price for what I got done was around 60 mil, would've been 450 mil for the entire run, had I not had to leave), and I'm already skilling up Gallente Cruisers to Level III. Should be done by now, so make that Battlecruisers Level I. Annnyways, yup. You have to give up Gallente E-War Powah to do it, but with the right skills and fit, you can dual-tank most Gallente Ships. Again, Algos = 5/3/3, Vexor is 5/5/5, and Velator = 3/3/3 or something similar. I'm not familiar with some of the bigger ships, but when I get back online I'll give a couple examples. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 948	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:17:00 - [25] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: 1) I actually like MOST of the Logistics changes. While I'm not a fan of the 'nerf', it plays well with the lore and mechanics of EVE. For example, the Gallente in EVE are dual-tanking (Dunno why they're Armor in DUST) E-War masters. Much of their equipment and ships focus on scanning and not being scanned. The bonus to Active Scanners amplify this, HOWEVER I'll make a point later on. The Minmatar, also have ships better suited for Logistics (From what I understand), so a Repair Tool bonus isn't completely illogical. I'll say though, that a bonus only applying to one module is only semi-useful when you have more than one module. My proposal: Minmatar: Bonus to ALL Triage Equipment (Repair Tools, Injectors, and Shield Reppers when they come out) Gallente: Bonus to ALL E-War Equipment (Active Scanner, and the SoonTM HUD Jammer, and Webifier) Amarr: Bonus to ALL Rally Equipment (Drop Uplinks, and any other things that come out soon that help rallying) Caldari: Bonus to ALL In-Direct Support Equipment* (Nanohives, anything else that meets the reqs) *In-Direct support, I mean things that help teammates, but only if the teammate knows how to use it. For example, you can give someone ammunition, but if it matters or not depends on their aim. If someone else can think of things (Even if not released) that the Amarr/Caldari use, be my guest. I feel like my first post here is being forgotten... ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Ankbar Latrommi Immortal Guides 21	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:30:00 - [26] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Artificer Ghost wrote: Gallente: Bonus to ALL E-War Equipment (Active Scanner, and the SoonTM HUD Jammer, and Webifier) I feel like my first post here is being forgotten... I don't know about all the others, but I'm not a fan of this. I prefer the Eve Online way in which each race has an ewar they specialize. Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2092	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:32:00 - [27] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Artificer Ghost wrote: 1) I actually like MOST of the Logistics changes. While I'm not a fan of the 'nerf', it plays well with the lore and mechanics of EVE. For example, the Gallente in EVE are dual-tanking (Dunno why they're Armor in DUST) E-War masters. Much of their equipment and ships focus on scanning and not being scanned. The bonus to Active Scanners amplify this, HOWEVER I'll make a point later on. The Minmatar, also have ships better suited for Logistics (From what I understand), so a Repair Tool bonus isn't completely illogical. I'll say though, that a bonus only applying to one module is only semi-useful when you have more than one module. My proposal: Minmatar: Bonus to ALL Triage Equipment (Repair Tools, Injectors, and Shield Reppers when they come out) Gallente: Bonus to ALL E-War Equipment (Active Scanner, and the SoonTM HUD Jammer, and Webifier) Amarr: Bonus to ALL Rally Equipment (Drop Uplinks, and any other things that come out soon that help rallying) Caldari: Bonus to ALL In-Direct Support Equipment* (Nanohives, anything else that meets the reqs) *In-Direct support, I mean things that help teammates, but only if the teammate knows how to use it. For example, you can give someone ammunition, but if it matters or not depends on their aim. If someone else can think of things (Even if not released) that the Amarr/Caldari use, be my guest. I feel like my first post here is being forgotten... - Gallente ships are usually best Armour tanked. (There are exceptions to the rule for all the races.) - Minmitar Logi ships repair shields, not armor. There is some merit in your proposal for the long run, but right now it give more advantage to the Minmatar. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 183	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:40:00 - [28] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Now I think the suit bonus here is perfect, it allows the commando to be best in class without overpowering it. However at this point in time I am still skeptical about the race bonuses, while they do indeed make sense and are very good bonuses, we don't have a full complement of weapons. Until we have a racial variant of the shotgun, sniper, AOE, Ligjt AV and Unique Weaponry this bonus makes things like a Mass Driver on say a Gallante NEAR pointless. Specialty Weapons: Gallente: Shot Gun Minmitar: Mass Driver Caldari: Sniper Rifle Amarr: Laser Rifle See we have the full set. Light AV: Gallente: Plasma Cannon Minmatar: Nothing (although the Min Commando bonus would affect the Swarm Launcher) Caldari: Swarm Launcher (although the Cal Commando bonus does not affect it) Amarr Nothing Not the full set. I remember CCP saying the Mass Driver can serve AV against LAV's (light) back in E3 build and I've seen teammates kill LAV's with MD's Level 18 [======== ] Pure Gallente - Preferred Gamemode: PVE
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 950	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:02:00 - [29] - Quote Ankbar Latrommi wrote: Artificer Ghost wrote: Artificer Ghost wrote: Gallente: Bonus to ALL E-War Equipment (Active Scanner, and the SoonTM HUD Jammer, and Webifier) I feel like my first post here is being forgotten... I don't know about all the others, but I'm not a fan of this. I prefer the Eve Online way in which each race has an ewar they specialize. Right. Maybe only Scanning E-War then, such as Scan Cloaking (Personal AoE Profile Dampener) or Team Scanners? Something that makes the G-Logi useful outside of a squad. Now, it's basically a personal scout-finder. I'm not saying the Active Scanner is useless outside of a squad, but it sure isn't hitting it's full potential. @Fox, I stand corrected then. I'm not familiar with what the Minmatar Logistics ships do, I just assumed that they mostly repaired armor. I should really get into the other races once I get my Battleships. I think Caldari is next. Either that or Minmatar, but I'm not a fan of speed tanking in EVE (Dat MWD doe). As for the dual-tanking, I guess it's Armor then. I just always thought that because of the balanced based stats and the balanced slot count... I didn't really consider that the Med Slot count was for E-War equipment. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1511	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:15:00 - [30] - Quote Galthur wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Now I think the suit bonus here is perfect, it allows the commando to be best in class without overpowering it. However at this point in time I am still skeptical about the race bonuses, while they do indeed make sense and are very good bonuses, we don't have a full complement of weapons. Until we have a racial variant of the shotgun, sniper, AOE, Ligjt AV and Unique Weaponry this bonus makes things like a Mass Driver on say a Gallante NEAR pointless. Specialty Weapons: Gallente: Shot Gun Minmitar: Mass Driver Caldari: Sniper Rifle Amarr: Laser Rifle See we have the full set. Light AV: Gallente: Plasma Cannon Minmatar: Nothing (although the Min Commando bonus would affect the Swarm Launcher) Caldari: Swarm Launcher (although the Cal Commando bonus does not affect it) Amarr Nothing Not the full set. I remember CCP saying the Mass Driver can serve AV against LAV's (light) back in E3 build and I've seen teammates kill LAV's with MD's it doesn't get the arbitrary penalty agInst vehicles but its not very good. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

Ankbar Latrommi Immortal Guides 22	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:22:00 - [31] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: @Fox, I stand corrected then. I'm not familiar with what the Minmatar Logistics ships do, I just assumed that they mostly repaired armor. I should really get into the other races once I get my Battleships. I think Caldari is next. Either that or Minmatar, but I'm not a fan of speed tanking in EVE (Dat MWD doe). As for the dual-tanking, I guess it's Armor then. I just always thought that because of the balanced based stats and the balanced slot count... I didn't really consider that the Med Slot count was for E-War equipment. The Minnie are shield and speed tanked (in space), the Caldari only shield, and the Gallie and Amarr (Victor!) are armour tankers. Their logi's have shield/armour bonuses lined up with that. Did you start with Gallente? The balanced slot layout does indeed allow for tanking either way, but almost no one dual tanks. Maybe bait or cyno ships. The reason being you're always giving up something useful like dps or ewar or speed. The Minmatar used to be the most common even slotted ships, but maybe not now so much. If you are doing PvE, Caldari is a good call. If you're going PvP, I'd choose a different race. Not that Caldari can't do PvP, far from it, but it takes a bit more intentionality. And missile skills are only useful for missiles, whereas all turret skills are useful whether you do hybrids, lasers, or projectiles. The Tengu (Caldari T3 Strat Cruiser) is pretty B.A., but that's a long way off for a new character. I highly suggest Jester's Trek for a blog with good info and help articles. Sorry for being a bit off-topic--we still don't have a DustGate and there's no way I am waiting to get home to write this nor am I persevering through typing all this out on a gamepad. Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1511	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:37:00 - [32] - Quote Ankbar Latrommi wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Fair enough you don't have to agree with me, but if there were to be 4 shotguns the gallante would be the best, but for people who play as a different race the other shotguns will have their perks to. Okay, I can accept that. I think I'd like it even more if they did, for example, a 'shotgun' for the Amarr which used laser technology in an unconventional way. That would explain their lesser stats, and stay within the tech strengths of the races. That what I meant yeah, the Amarr Shotgun would still be laser tech and would have specific drawbacks related to that, but by having all 4 races represent in each ramge in their own manor, it becomes more tactile. More options is always good, it would appear CCP are/was following that philopshy with the Minmatar Sniper Rifle. 4 Sidearms, 2 confirmed SMGs. I wiuld expect them in total to have 4 Rifles 4 Shotguns 4 AOE 4 Snipers 4 Light AV 4 Unique 4 Pistols 4 SMGs 4 HMGs 4 Heavy AV 4 Heavy Special Which is 44 weapons in total,which is a consoderable armoury, especially without considering the rumored T3 customizable weapon sets. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 953	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:01:00 - [33] - Quote Ankbar Latrommi wrote: Did you start with Gallente? I much prefer Stealth Tanking and E-War over any other type of tanking, and armor is a close second, so Gallente was the pretty obvious choice to go. Shield Tanking is probably more viable in EVE, but in DUST, if I'm not carrying around 5 Armor Plates, I feel naked. I'm mostly doing PvE at the moment, but soon I'm planning on moving into Low-Sec to do Exploration and find some higher-tier Wormholes, at which point I'll need to get myself acquainted with basic PvP. Either that, or learn to GTFO if I need to. I can probably fit a 1MN MWD and use the "Keep At Range: 20km" to stop from being Warp Disrupted. Anyways, /re-rail EDIT: Danke, for all the other knowledge though. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Aero Yassavi Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 4480	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:06:00 - [34] - Quote The Commando racial bonuses are great. Yes we should really have a full compliment of racial AV weapons, racial snipers, racial shotguns, and such, but when those do come this is the perfect bonus and I'd rather just keep it now instead of having it be something else and then changing it to this in the future. It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Super Amarr!
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1519	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:58:00 - [35] - Quote Something I feel that should be pointed out with the idea of making the Gallente the "masters" at ewar, is that each race is a master at their own kind of ewar. The Gallente are best with sensor dampers, the Caldari at ECM, the Minmatar with target painting and the Amarr with tracking disruption. What I expect is that as the game matures and we start to get actual ewar we'll have variations of our suits that are aimed at different tasks, sort of like how we used to have type 1 and type 2 assault suits with different tanking profiles. We'll have our normal suit with whatever our bonus is going to be, and then an ewar version with a bonus to that gear. Also, dual tanking in eve is a mortal sin. No race is a dual tanker because shields and armor have penalties that have a bad synergy. Shield modules make your ship act like it is larger, making it easier to hit and lock on to, while armor makes you slower. which makes you easier to track. If you use both at the same time you're both easier to track and easier to hit. Gallente ships can be armor or shield tanked effectively, though Minmatar are more well known for changing it up.


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