DUST Search - So Scouts will never be able to hide from scanners?

Sana Rayya wrote:

Cody Sietz wrote:

There is no need to run PROTO scanner unless there is a scout on the field. Now there is no need since a advanced or even standard could do the job.

Scanners pick up everyone, not just scouts. They are useful for ALL situations, and it is the only way to telegraph enemies on radar to squad mates.

Scouts require far more sp and the suit bonus is meant to counter scanners, both active and passive. I need 1 complex and 1 basic just to be a Proto scanner and that is with max skills. Don't even talk about the focused scanner, it's not even worth trying to beat. If you add the bonus from the new Logi skill, IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT.

I run a proto scanner because it has a longer light up time as well as having sharper precision (Duvolle Quantum vs. A-45). This scanner also forces my enemies to use two slots (mediums) or one slot (scouts) to avoid my scans, which makes for a considerable HP disadvantage if they choose to do so. If these changes go through, don't kid yourself about people downgrading their scanners to advanced or basic. Anyone with the proto scanner will still use it because it'll pick up everyone. Why would I give an enemy the chance to dodge my scans if I could guarantee that nearly everyone in the match could get scanned by using a better scanner? Just to be sporting?

You shouldn't need to use a complex dampener if you have your scout skill to proto. With proto scout and dampening 3, you need only a basic or militia dampener to beat 28dB proto scans. After the Gal Logi scan buff you'll need two complex dampeners.

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Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1893	Posted - 2014.01.08 12:46:00 - [1] - Quote At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1536	Posted - 2014.01.08 12:57:00 - [2] - Quote Sees a heavy calls whole squad for support The return of the heavy sounds like a good title? "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1527	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:00:00 - [3] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Sees a heavy calls whole squad for support The return of the heavy sounds like a good title? Yes. Heavies should be feared in the correct situation. As for the OP, everyone needs to chill the f- out for a second. We don't even know what if anything are going to be done to scanners OR scouts. Get more information, then freak out if warranted. Not now. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1893	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:05:00 - [4] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Sees a heavy calls whole squad for support The return of the heavy sounds like a good title? Yes. Heavies should be feared in the correct situation. As for the OP, everyone needs to chill the f- out for a second. We don't even know what if anything are going to be done to scanners OR scouts. Get more information, then freak out if warranted. Not now. It's more that any boost to the scanner would make Scouts pretty pointless. Also, not saying anything before the changes go in means that CCP will just put them in. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1894	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:39:00 - [5] - Quote Seems my scout bros are not awake... "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1055	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:42:00 - [6] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Seems my scout bros are not awake... They announced, we responded. It's CCP's move at the moment. If CCP hasn't noticed our displeasure, then I'm fairly certain IWS will let them know if he hasn't already. !
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1894	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:45:00 - [7] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Seems my scout bros are not awake... They announced, we responded. It's CCP's move at the moment. If CCP hasn't noticed our displeasure, then I'm fairly certain IWS will let them know if he hasn't already. Was this last night? Seems I'm out of the loop...again. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Severance Pay Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 986	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:49:00 - [8] - Quote There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1055	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:50:00 - [9] - Quote What was last night? If you mean "They announced," I was referring the info on the test server. @Severance Because it can still scan 99% of the player base? Also, I have no problem with the focused being able to scan everything. It has plenty of setbacks to account for its good precision. I do have a problem with the best scanner (Quantum) being able scan any scout that doesn't have 2 damps fitted (like min scouts didn't have enough going against them). !
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1894	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:52:00 - [10] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? And the point of the scout is to resist said scanner, if it can't do that...then what is the point of it? It was the only thing it could do better then any other suit...now it won't matter. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 7651	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:53:00 - [11] - Quote scanner picks up quiet scout sobbing in the corner Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1894	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:56:00 - [12] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: scanner picks up quiet scout sobbing in the corner Level 5 tears are OP T_T "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 683	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:59:00 - [13] - Quote If this bonus goes through it'll kill stealth tanking for Medium frames entirely. Scouts will need 2 proto dampeners to escape proto quantum Gal Logi scans. Better off just using high HP medium frames and living with getting perma-scanned, or alternatively squadding up with a tanker, getting out to kill, then jumping back in.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 255	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:01:00 - [14] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? Minmatarr Logi Bonus is from far the better of all logi. 50% more range (Can repair from 40 meters) and 25% repair rate is like....whoa 200hp/s with focused and 100hp/s with Six Kin triage Version. Don't forget the values are PER LEVEL.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1894	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:18:00 - [15] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? Minmatarr Logi Bonus is from far the better of all logi. 50% more range (Can repair from 40 meters) and 25% repair rate is like....whoa 200hp/s with focused and 100hp/s with Six Kin triage Version. Don't forget the values are PER LEVEL. That is great and all, but losing the hack bonus is pretty bad. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Severance Pay Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 986	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:21:00 - [16] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Severance Pay wrote: There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? And the point of the scout is to resist said scanner, if it can't do that...then what is the point of it? It was the only thing it could do better then any other suit...now it won't matter. Correction, the point of a scout is make them need a scanner. Get me? That equipment slot can be used for other things but because your team has a scout or 2 they need to fill that slot with a scanner. Light cannot exist without darkness. Without a scout there is no point to have a scanner, likewise without a scanner there is no point to a scout. Also, scanner has limited range. The opponents will need scanners on all four quadrants of the map to see everyone all the time. There is a place where you cannot be seen. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 684	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:30:00 - [17] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Correction, the point of a scout is make them need a scanner. Get me? That equipment slot can be used for other things but because your team has a scout or 2 they need to fill that slot with a scanner. Light cannot exist without darkness. Without a scout there is no point to have a scanner, likewise without a scanner there is no point to a scout. Also, scanner has limited range. The opponents will need scanners on all four quadrants of the map to see everyone all the time. There is a place where you cannot be seen. The point of having a scanner is to get intel on an enemy's position so I can shoot his face off. A scout being on the enemy team doesn't really make a difference to that; if he dodges my scans, other people won't, and I can still shoot their faces off. With the new Gal Logi bonus, nearly no one will be able to avoid my constant, spammable scans, so I can shoot faces off with ease, confident that there won't be any dampened mercs who get below my scans (with the exception of a proto scout with two complex dampeners). What we're getting with this bonus is essentially a Duvolle Quantum scanner with the Focused's fidelity (21dB vs. 15dB, but for all intents and purposes, it is low enough to not matter). Unluckily for other scouts and all dampened mediums (I also play a dampened suit), we can no longer avoid Gal Logi scans without a huge sacrifice, so why should we even try? Why give up my HP going into a game when there's a good chance that no matter what you do, you'll get scanned (as a medium)? Better just to suck it up and go full HP from the get go.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1894	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:32:00 - [18] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Severance Pay wrote: There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? And the point of the scout is to resist said scanner, if it can't do that...then what is the point of it? It was the only thing it could do better then any other suit...now it won't matter. Correction, the point of a scout is make them need a scanner. Get me? That equipment slot can be used for other things but because your team has a scout or 2 they need to fill that slot with a scanner. Light cannot exist without darkness. Without a scout there is no point to have a scanner, likewise without a scanner there is no point to a scout. Also, scanner has limited range. The opponents will need scanners on all four quadrants of the map to see everyone all the time. There is a place where you cannot be seen. There is no need to run PROTO scanner unless there is a scout on the field. Now there is no need since a advanced or even standard could do the job. Scanners pick up everyone, not just scouts. They are useful for ALL situations, and it is the only way to telegraph enemies on radar to squad mates. Scouts require far more sp and the suit bonus is meant to counter scanners, both active and passive. I need 1 complex and 1 basic just to be a Proto scanner and that is with max skills. Don't even talk about the focused scanner, it's not even worth trying to beat. If you add the bonus from the new Logi skill, IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 684	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:38:00 - [19] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: There is no need to run PROTO scanner unless there is a scout on the field. Now there is no need since a advanced or even standard could do the job. Scanners pick up everyone, not just scouts. They are useful for ALL situations, and it is the only way to telegraph enemies on radar to squad mates. Scouts require far more sp and the suit bonus is meant to counter scanners, both active and passive. I need 1 complex and 1 basic just to be a Proto scanner and that is with max skills. Don't even talk about the focused scanner, it's not even worth trying to beat. If you add the bonus from the new Logi skill, IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT. I run a proto scanner because it has a longer light up time as well as having sharper precision (Duvolle Quantum vs. A-45). This scanner also forces my enemies to use two slots (mediums) or one slot (scouts) to avoid my scans, which makes for a considerable HP disadvantage if they choose to do so. If these changes go through, don't kid yourself about people downgrading their scanners to advanced or basic. Anyone with the proto scanner will still use it because it'll pick up everyone. Why would give an enemy the chance to dodge my scans if I could guarantee that nearly everyone in the match could get scanned by using a better scanner? Just to be sporting? You shouldn't need to use a complex dampener if you have your scout skill to proto. With proto scout and dampening 3, you need only a basic or militia dampener to beat 28dB proto scans. After the Gal Logi scan buff you'll need two complex dampeners.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1507	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:40:00 - [20] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? You level 5 scout and level 5 dampening to be able to hide with just 1 dampener. Impossible to hide from a proto scanner.

Scout Registry 372	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:45:00 - [21] - Quote @ Krom We've been through this before; history as our guide: * Expect no hugs and/or meaningful changes. * Expect to be indirectly nerfed. Again. * IWS will apologize and tell us he tried. Cloak will not be ready. CCP will continue to work on it, and they won't touch us until its finished. Until then, we are little more than a placeholder. @ Cody 1) We've been shafted many times before; they will not give pause before doing it again. 2) Swap that Shotgun for a Rifle (until they buff it). AR, ScR, RR, CR >> More Reward, Less Risk.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1057	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:49:00 - [22] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: We've been through this before; history as our guide: * Expect no hugs and/or meaningful changes. * Expect to be indirectly nerfed. Again. Do not be hopeful. Cloak will not be ready. CCP will continue to work on Cloak, and they won't touch us until its finished. Until then, we are little more than a placeholder. I'm not being hopeful. I'm noting that CCP announced their intended gal logi bonus, we expressed our dislike of it. That is the limit of what we can do. All that remains is for CCP to either act on our feedback or ignore it. !
Scout Registry 372	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:51:00 - [23] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Scout Registry wrote: We've been through this before; history as our guide: * Expect no hugs and/or meaningful changes. * Expect to be indirectly nerfed. Again. Do not be hopeful. Cloak will not be ready. CCP will continue to work on Cloak, and they won't touch us until its finished. Until then, we are little more than a placeholder. I'm not being hopeful. I'm noting that CCP announced their intended gal logi bonus, we expressed our dislike of it. That is the limit of what we can do. All that remains is for CCP to either act on our feedback or ignore it. I hope we were loud enough. This time.
BuTtHuRtPEepZ Raging Pack of Homosapiens 158	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:20:00 - [24] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: There is no need to run PROTO scanner unless there is a scout on the field. Now there is no need since a advanced or even standard could do the job. Scanners pick up everyone, not just scouts. They are useful for ALL situations, and it is the only way to telegraph enemies on radar to squad mates. Scouts require far more sp and the suit bonus is meant to counter scanners, both active and passive. I need 1 complex and 1 basic just to be a Proto scanner and that is with max skills. Don't even talk about the focused scanner, it's not even worth trying to beat. If you add the bonus from the new Logi skill, IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT. I run a proto scanner because it has a longer light up time as well as having sharper precision (Duvolle Quantum vs. A-45). This scanner also forces my enemies to use two slots (mediums) or one slot (scouts) to avoid my scans, which makes for a considerable HP disadvantage if they choose to do so. If these changes go through, don't kid yourself about people downgrading their scanners to advanced or basic. Anyone with the proto scanner will still use it because it'll pick up everyone. Why would I give an enemy the chance to dodge my scans if I could guarantee that nearly everyone in the match could get scanned by using a better scanner? Just to be sporting? You shouldn't need to use a complex dampener if you have your scout skill to proto. With proto scout and dampening 3, you need only a basic or militia dampener to beat 28dB proto scans. After the Gal Logi scan buff you'll need two complex dampeners. I really REALLY hope a CCP dev sees this and suggests a buff to dampening or nerf to scanner scan precision.
Onesimus Tarsus 766	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:24:00 - [25] - Quote Scanner users should show up on everyone's mini every time they use said scanner for the full duration of the scan. I got my hand around the pistol grip, and the safety's off.
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2576	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:28:00 - [26] - Quote Well I am assuming this: Removal of Focused Scanner (it has always been unfair) CCP is pushing for medium frames to dampen Passive Scan Buff I ***** hope Do Not Feed The Imperfects**. Feeding them may disrupt the natural setting.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 686	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:54:00 - [27] - Quote Scanning nerf would just mean scanners will be next to useless in the hands of anyone other than the Gal Logi. If it's nerfed to the extent that only the Gal Logi can achieve the precision of the current proto scanners, it'd mean you'd only need a single complex dampener to get under the proto scans of anyone else, and the advanced scans of anyone else, you can avoid just by passive dampening bonus alone. What they should do is leave precision untouched and buff range or cooldown time instead. Precision is a delicate balance and really, any change which results in a higher precision for scanning using one suit, vs. others, will be OP for that suit. Before anyone says that that's what suit bonuses are supposed to do, keep in mind that the scanning mechanic is different from anything else in the game. Whereas uplinks, repair tools, and hives benefit your allies without really having an effect on your enemy, scan fidelity does exactly that. In this case, these scanner changes will make an entire class of enemy modules/skills worthless by destroying the stealth play style. The Focused scanner does this, but has severe drawbacks, which the Gal Logi scans will not have.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3772	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:54:00 - [28] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Krom Ganesh wrote: Scout Registry wrote: We've been through this before; history as our guide: * Expect no hugs and/or meaningful changes. * Expect to be indirectly nerfed. Again. Do not be hopeful. Cloak will not be ready. CCP will continue to work on Cloak, and they won't touch us until its finished. Until then, we are little more than a placeholder. I'm not being hopeful. I'm noting that CCP announced their intended gal logi bonus, we expressed our dislike of it. That is the limit of what we can do. All that remains is for CCP to either act on our feedback or ignore it. I hope we were loud enough. This time. To be honest after it's hit singularity it's pretty much done, the fact they considered it and that scanners are the gal's only equipment doesn't bode well, honestly I don't think they care in the slightest. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 995	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:57:00 - [29] - Quote Every suit should have a counter. A particular logi suit sacrifices other bonuses to be able to detect scouts better. That's a good compromise. It's game balance. The likelihood you will see that many people using that suit, statistically, isn't that high. But yes, sometimes someone might be a really awesome scanner, and that's a good thing. Everyone should always be at risk. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 688	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:07:00 - [30] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Every suit should have a counter. A particular logi suit sacrifices other bonuses to be able to detect scouts better. That's a good compromise. It's game balance. The likelihood you will see that many people using that suit, statistically, isn't that high. But yes, sometimes someone might be a really awesome scanner, and that's a good thing. Everyone should always be at risk. You say that as if Gal Logi and scanning aren't the current FOTM. I think you're underestimating how OP this bonus is. There's not a huge difference in faster uplinks, longer lasting/healing nanohives, or a better repair tool. However, there's a huge difference in one person spam-scanning at 28dB and the Gal Logi spam-scanning at 21dB, namely in what it takes to dodge said scans. Mediums need 2x complex dampeners and (proto) scouts need 1 basic dampener and Lvl 3 dampening to dodge 28dB scans. For 21dB scans, mediums would need FIVE complex (making it pretty much impossible/impractical for everyone) and scouts need 2x complex to dodge them.



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