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So Scouts will never be able to hide from scanners?

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Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 996	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:19:00 - [31] - Quote I don't feel either the prevalence of sneaky scout suits or scanner logis that will be using Gallente suits are large enough for it to be a massive gamechanger, no. I could be wrong, but with my experience in combat, I'm just not seeing it. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 842	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:24:00 - [32] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Sees a heavy calls whole squad for support The return of the heavy sounds like a good title? Yes. Heavies should be feared in the correct situation. As for the OP, everyone needs to chill the f- out for a second. We don't even know what if anything are going to be done to scanners OR scouts. Get more information, then freak out if warranted. Not now. THE END IS NIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, I feel better now. {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 688	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:25:00 - [33] - Quote Have you played a dampened suit before (scout or medium)? Maybe you just don't see it as a big deal because you don't know the kind of advantage you get when you aren't scanned. As an advanced suit using a dampener, I can take out protos primarily because they don't know I'm there, hence I get the first shot or can lay a trap for them, regardless of their higher DPS and higher HP. If EVERYONE now knows where EVERYONE else is, it'll just become a game where higher HP and higher DPS gets you the win. A game where if you don't pull out your proto first, you'll almost always lose.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 842	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:34:00 - [34] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Have you played a dampened suit before (scout or medium)? Maybe you just don't see it as a big deal because you don't know the kind of advantage you get when you aren't scanned. As an advanced suit using a dampener, I can take out protos primarily because they don't know I'm there, hence I get the first shot or can lay a trap for them, regardless of their higher DPS and higher HP. If EVERYONE now knows where EVERYONE else is, it'll just become a game where higher HP and higher DPS gets you the win. A game where if you don't pull out your proto first, you'll almost always lose. ? You talking to me? Nah dude, I have a Gal + scanner is OP QQ thread of my own up on the front page right now. {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 688	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:36:00 - [35] - Quote @Son-Of A-Gun - Nope, sorry, was talking to Soraya Xel. Already posted in your thread :)
NOAMIzzzzz FREE AGENTS LP 89	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:54:00 - [36] - Quote I don't know why yall are talking about heavys they need this **** so shut the FACK ap
Kam Elto KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 165	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:37:00 - [37] - Quote scanners are spammed and abused. any buff is a move in the wrong direction.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 441	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:42:00 - [38] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? Minmatarr Logi Bonus is from far the better of all logi. 50% more range (Can repair from 40 meters) and 25% repair rate is like....whoa 200hp/s with focused and 100hp/s with Six Kin triage Version. Don't forget the values are PER LEVEL. That is great and all, but losing the hack bonus is pretty bad. To be honest the hack bonus never made really sense to me. Imho this bonus belongs to the scout suit...
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 441	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:46:00 - [39] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Severance Pay wrote: There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? And the point of the scout is to resist said scanner, if it can't do that...then what is the point of it? It was the only thing it could do better then any other suit...now it won't matter. Correction, the point of a scout is make them need a scanner. Get me? That equipment slot can be used for other things but because your team has a scout or 2 they need to fill that slot with a scanner. Light cannot exist without darkness. Without a scout there is no point to have a scanner, likewise without a scanner there is no point to a scout. Also, scanner has limited range. The opponents will need scanners on all four quadrants of the map to see everyone all the time. There is a place where you cannot be seen. You are wrong the scanner is there to mark enemy positions for your squad. Remember we no longer have shared teamview, so the active scanner is the only way to mark enemies on the tac net. The scout should be the counter to that not tbe other way round.
Your Absolut End SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 331	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:47:00 - [40] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? Same logic applies to profile dampeners, doesn't it? IMO both scanning and stealth should be a proficiency, which is costly on SP, cos its a proficiency. A proficient Stealth scout shouldn't be scanneable from a semi-specific Scanner user, in fact, only a proto Gallente Logi with the lowest dB scanner should be able to pick up the stealth scout. This makes sense because it will be nearly impossible to any other suit and scanner user who is not willing to go fully into scanning to pick up said scout. another one bites the Dust... Born as Kameira, die as Kameira, my life for the Empress!

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2092	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:50:00 - [41] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? The Scanner Bonus seems a bit strong. It also seems like it would make more sense for the Minmatar Logi to get the scan bonus for Infiltrators, Combat Engineers, and Demolitions experts. While the Repair Tool bonus would make more sense for Gallente Logi which is the iconic Logi-Bro suit. The shotgun is a Blaster weapon, so will not suffer against Gallente and Minmatar Heavies. It will suff up to a 15% nerf against Caldari Heavies, and up to a 10% nerf against Amarr Heavies. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3451	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:54:00 - [42] - Quote #crystalball We used to have a time machine
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2093	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:00:00 - [43] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Severance Pay wrote: There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? And the point of the scout is to resist said scanner, if it can't do that...then what is the point of it? It was the only thing it could do better then any other suit...now it won't matter. Correction, the point of a scout is make them need a scanner. Get me? That equipment slot can be used for other things but because your team has a scout or 2 they need to fill that slot with a scanner. Light cannot exist without darkness. Without a scout there is no point to have a scanner, likewise without a scanner there is no point to a scout. Also, scanner has limited range. The opponents will need scanners on all four quadrants of the map to see everyone all the time. There is a place where you cannot be seen. You missed the point to such an extent that I think you may have hit a bystander. Scanners tell you were Medium and Heavy frame suits are in your area. In a sense they let you see through walls. Scanners donGÇÖt pick up skilled Scouts now, or at least the most popular scanner doesnGÇÖt. Yet lots of people use scanners. Think about that. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 750	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:05:00 - [44] - Quote If CCP was smart they would wait to release these changes until all of the scout suits and the cloak were finished. From a coding standpoint, cloaks aren't that complicated to do. Cloaks will be a MAJOR game-changer for scouts, and would make most of this debate moot. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1067	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:10:00 - [45] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: If CCP was smart they would wait to release these changes until all of the scout suits and the cloak was finished. From a coding standpoint, cloaks aren't that complicated to do. Cloaks will be a MAJOR game-changer for scouts, and would make most of this debate moot. I believe that was their intention. The CPM stated CCP has listened to their request of not giving bonuses towards things that don't exist yet. That should mean the cloak is done or at least nearly so. As for the cloaking being a "major game-changer," I have my doubts. I already do well enough at avoiding detection now. I can't see the cloak being too much of an improvement. !
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2094	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:15:00 - [46] - Quote You know, Scanners work very well right not... How about replacing the Scanner bonus with a Nanite Injector bonus? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core 422	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:28:00 - [47] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? The new minmatar logi bonus isnt bad at all and reping two heavys with a six kin rep tool at the same time with 100/s reps going on each or 200/s with the core focused on a single heavy at just LVL 3(max skills 110sixkin/219 Corefocused) is nothing to to be disappointed at.The Hacking speed bonus while i will miss it, the oppertunityes to use it was few and far in between most of the time,compared to how many times you would need to rep a team mate through a match. A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
Lucrezia LeGrand 183	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:36:00 - [48] - Quote I'm a Scout and I don't think we should be able to dodge all scanners. A Scout should be able to pass under basic and advanced pretty easily, and under most proto with enough SP (Dampening lv 5 and Scout Lv 5). There should be a few Proto scanners where we would also have to use a dampner (maybe basic grade if fully leveled up). But part of Dust (or what should be part of dust) is that no one person should be able to counter any one other person completely. Make a proto scanner that no one can dodge, but then make it heck-a expensive.
One Eyed King Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 170	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:46:00 - [49] - Quote I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves in regards to these bonuses. It is a good idea that we are having these discussions, but much of the talk seems to not acknowledge that everything seems to be up in the air. From the comments of one CPM, it sounds like they are having some in depth discussion regarding the direction of Dust that may make a lot of this discussion a moot point. Just keep that in mind. Nova knifing scout masochist. I would be a sadist, but CCP won't let me.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2660	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:02:00 - [50] - Quote It would be a touch more fair if the active scanner lit up the user like active radar/sonar does today. The scout would know what part of the map to avoid and the rest of the team would know who to kill first. Add a touch of risk to that reward.

CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 557	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:05:00 - [51] - Quote Don't worry! Even if you ever do dampen yourself enough to dodge the scanners - they still get a lovely warning message telling them "Someone who could not be scanned * cough cough a scout * is in the area!!" Greatttttttttt
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1073	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:05:00 - [52] - Quote Skihids wrote: It would be a touch more fair if the active scanner lit up the user like active radar/sonar does today. The scout would know what part of the map to avoid and the rest of the team would know who to kill first. Add a touch of risk to that reward. Wouldn't really change much. Both teams spam the scanner enough to give each other cancer now. Does it really matter if the enemy's scanner lights them up if you have already scanned them? !
Lucrezia LeGrand 184	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:08:00 - [53] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Don't worry! Even if you ever do dampen yourself enough to dodge the scanners - they still get a lovely warning message telling them "Someone who could not be scanned * cough cough a scout * is in the area!!" Greatttttttttt I heard that CCP removed that feature. Seems to me that they're telling the truth because I've had people scan an area, scan failed to pick me up, then walk right past my hiding area to start hacking. ya- hoi hoi
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2660	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:32:00 - [54] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Skihids wrote: It would be a touch more fair if the active scanner lit up the user like active radar/sonar does today. The scout would know what part of the map to avoid and the rest of the team would know who to kill first. Add a touch of risk to that reward. Wouldn't really change much. Both teams spam the scanner enough to give each other cancer now. Does it really matter if the enemy's scanner lights them up if you have already scanned them? I'd be more inclined to shoot the scanner first.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 442	Posted - 2014.01.08 21:05:00 - [55] - Quote Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: I'm a Scout and I don't think we should be able to dodge all scanners. A Scout should be able to pass under basic and advanced pretty easily, and under most proto with enough SP (Dampening lv 5 and Scout Lv 5). There should be a few Proto scanners where we would also have to use a dampner (maybe basic grade if fully leveled up). But part of Dust (or what should be part of dust) is that no one person should be able to counter any one other person completely. Make a proto scanner that no one can dodge, but then make it heck-a expensive. I could partly agree IF the SP investment would be close currently scouts need roughly 4 mil SP to beat proto scanners a 900k investment that everyone can use...
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 442	Posted - 2014.01.08 21:06:00 - [56] - Quote Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Don't worry! Even if you ever do dampen yourself enough to dodge the scanners - they still get a lovely warning message telling them "Someone who could not be scanned * cough cough a scout * is in the area!!" Greatttttttttt I heard that CCP removed that feature. Seems to me that they're telling the truth because I've had people scan an area, scan failed to pick me up, then walk right past my hiding area to start hacking. I can assure the s.all margin of error messager is still there as I stil get it
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 694	Posted - 2014.01.08 21:13:00 - [57] - Quote What scanner are you using? Because I never get that message with A-45 and Duvolle Quantum scanners.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1914	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:24:00 - [58] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: What scanner are you using? Because I never get that message with A-45 and Duvolle Quantum scanners. It doesn't seem to work when you spin. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 444	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:36:00 - [59] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: What scanner are you using? Because I never get that message with A-45 and Duvolle Quantum scanners. Well I Used the A-45 Quantum or the flux active scanner depends on the fitting. I will give this some testing tonight with both scanners if possible.
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 52	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:40:00 - [60] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: If this bonus goes through it'll kill stealth tanking for Medium frames entirely. Scouts will need 2 proto dampeners to escape proto quantum Gal Logi scans. Better off just using high HP medium frames and living with getting perma-scanned, or alternatively squadding up with a tanker, getting out to kill, then jumping back in. if you want to avoid proto scans, then become a scout.



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