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So Scouts will never be able to hide from scanners?

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Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1893	Posted - 2014.01.08 12:46:00 - [1] - Quote At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1536	Posted - 2014.01.08 12:57:00 - [2] - Quote Sees a heavy calls whole squad for support The return of the heavy sounds like a good title? "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1527	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:00:00 - [3] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Sees a heavy calls whole squad for support The return of the heavy sounds like a good title? Yes. Heavies should be feared in the correct situation. As for the OP, everyone needs to chill the f- out for a second. We don't even know what if anything are going to be done to scanners OR scouts. Get more information, then freak out if warranted. Not now. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1893	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:05:00 - [4] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Sees a heavy calls whole squad for support The return of the heavy sounds like a good title? Yes. Heavies should be feared in the correct situation. As for the OP, everyone needs to chill the f- out for a second. We don't even know what if anything are going to be done to scanners OR scouts. Get more information, then freak out if warranted. Not now. It's more that any boost to the scanner would make Scouts pretty pointless. Also, not saying anything before the changes go in means that CCP will just put them in. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1894	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:39:00 - [5] - Quote Seems my scout bros are not awake... "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1055	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:42:00 - [6] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Seems my scout bros are not awake... They announced, we responded. It's CCP's move at the moment. If CCP hasn't noticed our displeasure, then I'm fairly certain IWS will let them know if he hasn't already. !
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1894	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:45:00 - [7] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Seems my scout bros are not awake... They announced, we responded. It's CCP's move at the moment. If CCP hasn't noticed our displeasure, then I'm fairly certain IWS will let them know if he hasn't already. Was this last night? Seems I'm out of the loop...again. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Severance Pay Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 986	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:49:00 - [8] - Quote There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1055	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:50:00 - [9] - Quote What was last night? If you mean "They announced," I was referring the info on the test server. @Severance Because it can still scan 99% of the player base? Also, I have no problem with the focused being able to scan everything. It has plenty of setbacks to account for its good precision. I do have a problem with the best scanner (Quantum) being able scan any scout that doesn't have 2 damps fitted (like min scouts didn't have enough going against them). !
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1894	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:52:00 - [10] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? And the point of the scout is to resist said scanner, if it can't do that...then what is the point of it? It was the only thing it could do better then any other suit...now it won't matter. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 7651	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:53:00 - [11] - Quote scanner picks up quiet scout sobbing in the corner Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1894	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:56:00 - [12] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: scanner picks up quiet scout sobbing in the corner Level 5 tears are OP T_T "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 683	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:59:00 - [13] - Quote If this bonus goes through it'll kill stealth tanking for Medium frames entirely. Scouts will need 2 proto dampeners to escape proto quantum Gal Logi scans. Better off just using high HP medium frames and living with getting perma-scanned, or alternatively squadding up with a tanker, getting out to kill, then jumping back in.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 255	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:01:00 - [14] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? Minmatarr Logi Bonus is from far the better of all logi. 50% more range (Can repair from 40 meters) and 25% repair rate is like....whoa 200hp/s with focused and 100hp/s with Six Kin triage Version. Don't forget the values are PER LEVEL.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1894	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:18:00 - [15] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? Minmatarr Logi Bonus is from far the better of all logi. 50% more range (Can repair from 40 meters) and 25% repair rate is like....whoa 200hp/s with focused and 100hp/s with Six Kin triage Version. Don't forget the values are PER LEVEL. That is great and all, but losing the hack bonus is pretty bad. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Severance Pay Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 986	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:21:00 - [16] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Severance Pay wrote: There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? And the point of the scout is to resist said scanner, if it can't do that...then what is the point of it? It was the only thing it could do better then any other suit...now it won't matter. Correction, the point of a scout is make them need a scanner. Get me? That equipment slot can be used for other things but because your team has a scout or 2 they need to fill that slot with a scanner. Light cannot exist without darkness. Without a scout there is no point to have a scanner, likewise without a scanner there is no point to a scout. Also, scanner has limited range. The opponents will need scanners on all four quadrants of the map to see everyone all the time. There is a place where you cannot be seen. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 684	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:30:00 - [17] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Correction, the point of a scout is make them need a scanner. Get me? That equipment slot can be used for other things but because your team has a scout or 2 they need to fill that slot with a scanner. Light cannot exist without darkness. Without a scout there is no point to have a scanner, likewise without a scanner there is no point to a scout. Also, scanner has limited range. The opponents will need scanners on all four quadrants of the map to see everyone all the time. There is a place where you cannot be seen. The point of having a scanner is to get intel on an enemy's position so I can shoot his face off. A scout being on the enemy team doesn't really make a difference to that; if he dodges my scans, other people won't, and I can still shoot their faces off. With the new Gal Logi bonus, nearly no one will be able to avoid my constant, spammable scans, so I can shoot faces off with ease, confident that there won't be any dampened mercs who get below my scans (with the exception of a proto scout with two complex dampeners). What we're getting with this bonus is essentially a Duvolle Quantum scanner with the Focused's fidelity (21dB vs. 15dB, but for all intents and purposes, it is low enough to not matter). Unluckily for other scouts and all dampened mediums (I also play a dampened suit), we can no longer avoid Gal Logi scans without a huge sacrifice, so why should we even try? Why give up my HP going into a game when there's a good chance that no matter what you do, you'll get scanned (as a medium)? Better just to suck it up and go full HP from the get go.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1894	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:32:00 - [18] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Severance Pay wrote: There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? And the point of the scout is to resist said scanner, if it can't do that...then what is the point of it? It was the only thing it could do better then any other suit...now it won't matter. Correction, the point of a scout is make them need a scanner. Get me? That equipment slot can be used for other things but because your team has a scout or 2 they need to fill that slot with a scanner. Light cannot exist without darkness. Without a scout there is no point to have a scanner, likewise without a scanner there is no point to a scout. Also, scanner has limited range. The opponents will need scanners on all four quadrants of the map to see everyone all the time. There is a place where you cannot be seen. There is no need to run PROTO scanner unless there is a scout on the field. Now there is no need since a advanced or even standard could do the job. Scanners pick up everyone, not just scouts. They are useful for ALL situations, and it is the only way to telegraph enemies on radar to squad mates. Scouts require far more sp and the suit bonus is meant to counter scanners, both active and passive. I need 1 complex and 1 basic just to be a Proto scanner and that is with max skills. Don't even talk about the focused scanner, it's not even worth trying to beat. If you add the bonus from the new Logi skill, IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 684	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:38:00 - [19] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: There is no need to run PROTO scanner unless there is a scout on the field. Now there is no need since a advanced or even standard could do the job. Scanners pick up everyone, not just scouts. They are useful for ALL situations, and it is the only way to telegraph enemies on radar to squad mates. Scouts require far more sp and the suit bonus is meant to counter scanners, both active and passive. I need 1 complex and 1 basic just to be a Proto scanner and that is with max skills. Don't even talk about the focused scanner, it's not even worth trying to beat. If you add the bonus from the new Logi skill, IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT. I run a proto scanner because it has a longer light up time as well as having sharper precision (Duvolle Quantum vs. A-45). This scanner also forces my enemies to use two slots (mediums) or one slot (scouts) to avoid my scans, which makes for a considerable HP disadvantage if they choose to do so. If these changes go through, don't kid yourself about people downgrading their scanners to advanced or basic. Anyone with the proto scanner will still use it because it'll pick up everyone. Why would give an enemy the chance to dodge my scans if I could guarantee that nearly everyone in the match could get scanned by using a better scanner? Just to be sporting? You shouldn't need to use a complex dampener if you have your scout skill to proto. With proto scout and dampening 3, you need only a basic or militia dampener to beat 28dB proto scans. After the Gal Logi scan buff you'll need two complex dampeners.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1507	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:40:00 - [20] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? You level 5 scout and level 5 dampening to be able to hide with just 1 dampener. Impossible to hide from a proto scanner.
Scout Registry 372	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:45:00 - [21] - Quote @ Krom We've been through this before; history as our guide: * Expect no hugs and/or meaningful changes. * Expect to be indirectly nerfed. Again. * IWS will apologize and tell us he tried. Cloak will not be ready. CCP will continue to work on it, and they won't touch us until its finished. Until then, we are little more than a placeholder. @ Cody 1) We've been shafted many times before; they will not give pause before doing it again. 2) Swap that Shotgun for a Rifle (until they buff it). AR, ScR, RR, CR >> More Reward, Less Risk.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1057	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:49:00 - [22] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: We've been through this before; history as our guide: * Expect no hugs and/or meaningful changes. * Expect to be indirectly nerfed. Again. Do not be hopeful. Cloak will not be ready. CCP will continue to work on Cloak, and they won't touch us until its finished. Until then, we are little more than a placeholder. I'm not being hopeful. I'm noting that CCP announced their intended gal logi bonus, we expressed our dislike of it. That is the limit of what we can do. All that remains is for CCP to either act on our feedback or ignore it. !
Scout Registry 372	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:51:00 - [23] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Scout Registry wrote: We've been through this before; history as our guide: * Expect no hugs and/or meaningful changes. * Expect to be indirectly nerfed. Again. Do not be hopeful. Cloak will not be ready. CCP will continue to work on Cloak, and they won't touch us until its finished. Until then, we are little more than a placeholder. I'm not being hopeful. I'm noting that CCP announced their intended gal logi bonus, we expressed our dislike of it. That is the limit of what we can do. All that remains is for CCP to either act on our feedback or ignore it. I hope we were loud enough. This time.
BuTtHuRtPEepZ Raging Pack of Homosapiens 158	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:20:00 - [24] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: There is no need to run PROTO scanner unless there is a scout on the field. Now there is no need since a advanced or even standard could do the job. Scanners pick up everyone, not just scouts. They are useful for ALL situations, and it is the only way to telegraph enemies on radar to squad mates. Scouts require far more sp and the suit bonus is meant to counter scanners, both active and passive. I need 1 complex and 1 basic just to be a Proto scanner and that is with max skills. Don't even talk about the focused scanner, it's not even worth trying to beat. If you add the bonus from the new Logi skill, IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT. I run a proto scanner because it has a longer light up time as well as having sharper precision (Duvolle Quantum vs. A-45). This scanner also forces my enemies to use two slots (mediums) or one slot (scouts) to avoid my scans, which makes for a considerable HP disadvantage if they choose to do so. If these changes go through, don't kid yourself about people downgrading their scanners to advanced or basic. Anyone with the proto scanner will still use it because it'll pick up everyone. Why would I give an enemy the chance to dodge my scans if I could guarantee that nearly everyone in the match could get scanned by using a better scanner? Just to be sporting? You shouldn't need to use a complex dampener if you have your scout skill to proto. With proto scout and dampening 3, you need only a basic or militia dampener to beat 28dB proto scans. After the Gal Logi scan buff you'll need two complex dampeners. I really REALLY hope a CCP dev sees this and suggests a buff to dampening or nerf to scanner scan precision.
Onesimus Tarsus 766	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:24:00 - [25] - Quote Scanner users should show up on everyone's mini every time they use said scanner for the full duration of the scan. I got my hand around the pistol grip, and the safety's off.
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2576	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:28:00 - [26] - Quote Well I am assuming this: Removal of Focused Scanner (it has always been unfair) CCP is pushing for medium frames to dampen Passive Scan Buff I ***** hope Do Not Feed The Imperfects**. Feeding them may disrupt the natural setting.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 686	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:54:00 - [27] - Quote Scanning nerf would just mean scanners will be next to useless in the hands of anyone other than the Gal Logi. If it's nerfed to the extent that only the Gal Logi can achieve the precision of the current proto scanners, it'd mean you'd only need a single complex dampener to get under the proto scans of anyone else, and the advanced scans of anyone else, you can avoid just by passive dampening bonus alone. What they should do is leave precision untouched and buff range or cooldown time instead. Precision is a delicate balance and really, any change which results in a higher precision for scanning using one suit, vs. others, will be OP for that suit. Before anyone says that that's what suit bonuses are supposed to do, keep in mind that the scanning mechanic is different from anything else in the game. Whereas uplinks, repair tools, and hives benefit your allies without really having an effect on your enemy, scan fidelity does exactly that. In this case, these scanner changes will make an entire class of enemy modules/skills worthless by destroying the stealth play style. The Focused scanner does this, but has severe drawbacks, which the Gal Logi scans will not have.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3772	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:54:00 - [28] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Krom Ganesh wrote: Scout Registry wrote: We've been through this before; history as our guide: * Expect no hugs and/or meaningful changes. * Expect to be indirectly nerfed. Again. Do not be hopeful. Cloak will not be ready. CCP will continue to work on Cloak, and they won't touch us until its finished. Until then, we are little more than a placeholder. I'm not being hopeful. I'm noting that CCP announced their intended gal logi bonus, we expressed our dislike of it. That is the limit of what we can do. All that remains is for CCP to either act on our feedback or ignore it. I hope we were loud enough. This time. To be honest after it's hit singularity it's pretty much done, the fact they considered it and that scanners are the gal's only equipment doesn't bode well, honestly I don't think they care in the slightest. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 995	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:57:00 - [29] - Quote Every suit should have a counter. A particular logi suit sacrifices other bonuses to be able to detect scouts better. That's a good compromise. It's game balance. The likelihood you will see that many people using that suit, statistically, isn't that high. But yes, sometimes someone might be a really awesome scanner, and that's a good thing. Everyone should always be at risk. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 688	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:07:00 - [30] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Every suit should have a counter. A particular logi suit sacrifices other bonuses to be able to detect scouts better. That's a good compromise. It's game balance. The likelihood you will see that many people using that suit, statistically, isn't that high. But yes, sometimes someone might be a really awesome scanner, and that's a good thing. Everyone should always be at risk. You say that as if Gal Logi and scanning aren't the current FOTM. I think you're underestimating how OP this bonus is. There's not a huge difference in faster uplinks, longer lasting/healing nanohives, or a better repair tool. However, there's a huge difference in one person spam-scanning at 28dB and the Gal Logi spam-scanning at 21dB, namely in what it takes to dodge said scans. Mediums need 2x complex dampeners and (proto) scouts need 1 basic dampener and Lvl 3 dampening to dodge 28dB scans. For 21dB scans, mediums would need FIVE complex (making it pretty much impossible/impractical for everyone) and scouts need 2x complex to dodge them.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 996	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:19:00 - [31] - Quote I don't feel either the prevalence of sneaky scout suits or scanner logis that will be using Gallente suits are large enough for it to be a massive gamechanger, no. I could be wrong, but with my experience in combat, I'm just not seeing it. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 842	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:24:00 - [32] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Sees a heavy calls whole squad for support The return of the heavy sounds like a good title? Yes. Heavies should be feared in the correct situation. As for the OP, everyone needs to chill the f- out for a second. We don't even know what if anything are going to be done to scanners OR scouts. Get more information, then freak out if warranted. Not now. THE END IS NIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, I feel better now. {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 688	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:25:00 - [33] - Quote Have you played a dampened suit before (scout or medium)? Maybe you just don't see it as a big deal because you don't know the kind of advantage you get when you aren't scanned. As an advanced suit using a dampener, I can take out protos primarily because they don't know I'm there, hence I get the first shot or can lay a trap for them, regardless of their higher DPS and higher HP. If EVERYONE now knows where EVERYONE else is, it'll just become a game where higher HP and higher DPS gets you the win. A game where if you don't pull out your proto first, you'll almost always lose.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 842	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:34:00 - [34] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Have you played a dampened suit before (scout or medium)? Maybe you just don't see it as a big deal because you don't know the kind of advantage you get when you aren't scanned. As an advanced suit using a dampener, I can take out protos primarily because they don't know I'm there, hence I get the first shot or can lay a trap for them, regardless of their higher DPS and higher HP. If EVERYONE now knows where EVERYONE else is, it'll just become a game where higher HP and higher DPS gets you the win. A game where if you don't pull out your proto first, you'll almost always lose. ? You talking to me? Nah dude, I have a Gal + scanner is OP QQ thread of my own up on the front page right now. {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 688	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:36:00 - [35] - Quote @Son-Of A-Gun - Nope, sorry, was talking to Soraya Xel. Already posted in your thread :)
NOAMIzzzzz FREE AGENTS LP 89	Posted - 2014.01.08 16:54:00 - [36] - Quote I don't know why yall are talking about heavys they need this **** so shut the FACK ap
Kam Elto KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 165	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:37:00 - [37] - Quote scanners are spammed and abused. any buff is a move in the wrong direction.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 441	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:42:00 - [38] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? Minmatarr Logi Bonus is from far the better of all logi. 50% more range (Can repair from 40 meters) and 25% repair rate is like....whoa 200hp/s with focused and 100hp/s with Six Kin triage Version. Don't forget the values are PER LEVEL. That is great and all, but losing the hack bonus is pretty bad. To be honest the hack bonus never made really sense to me. Imho this bonus belongs to the scout suit...
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 441	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:46:00 - [39] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Severance Pay wrote: There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? And the point of the scout is to resist said scanner, if it can't do that...then what is the point of it? It was the only thing it could do better then any other suit...now it won't matter. Correction, the point of a scout is make them need a scanner. Get me? That equipment slot can be used for other things but because your team has a scout or 2 they need to fill that slot with a scanner. Light cannot exist without darkness. Without a scout there is no point to have a scanner, likewise without a scanner there is no point to a scout. Also, scanner has limited range. The opponents will need scanners on all four quadrants of the map to see everyone all the time. There is a place where you cannot be seen. You are wrong the scanner is there to mark enemy positions for your squad. Remember we no longer have shared teamview, so the active scanner is the only way to mark enemies on the tac net. The scout should be the counter to that not tbe other way round.
Your Absolut End SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 331	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:47:00 - [40] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? Same logic applies to profile dampeners, doesn't it? IMO both scanning and stealth should be a proficiency, which is costly on SP, cos its a proficiency. A proficient Stealth scout shouldn't be scanneable from a semi-specific Scanner user, in fact, only a proto Gallente Logi with the lowest dB scanner should be able to pick up the stealth scout. This makes sense because it will be nearly impossible to any other suit and scanner user who is not willing to go fully into scanning to pick up said scout. another one bites the Dust... Born as Kameira, die as Kameira, my life for the Empress!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2092	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:50:00 - [41] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? The Scanner Bonus seems a bit strong. It also seems like it would make more sense for the Minmatar Logi to get the scan bonus for Infiltrators, Combat Engineers, and Demolitions experts. While the Repair Tool bonus would make more sense for Gallente Logi which is the iconic Logi-Bro suit. The shotgun is a Blaster weapon, so will not suffer against Gallente and Minmatar Heavies. It will suff up to a 15% nerf against Caldari Heavies, and up to a 10% nerf against Amarr Heavies. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3451	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:54:00 - [42] - Quote #crystalball We used to have a time machine
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2093	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:00:00 - [43] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Severance Pay wrote: There what be no point in justifying the scanner's existence if it couldn't scan everything.. If it couldn't scan everything would we still buy it? what would be the point? And the point of the scout is to resist said scanner, if it can't do that...then what is the point of it? It was the only thing it could do better then any other suit...now it won't matter. Correction, the point of a scout is make them need a scanner. Get me? That equipment slot can be used for other things but because your team has a scout or 2 they need to fill that slot with a scanner. Light cannot exist without darkness. Without a scout there is no point to have a scanner, likewise without a scanner there is no point to a scout. Also, scanner has limited range. The opponents will need scanners on all four quadrants of the map to see everyone all the time. There is a place where you cannot be seen. You missed the point to such an extent that I think you may have hit a bystander. Scanners tell you were Medium and Heavy frame suits are in your area. In a sense they let you see through walls. Scanners donGÇÖt pick up skilled Scouts now, or at least the most popular scanner doesnGÇÖt. Yet lots of people use scanners. Think about that. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 750	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:05:00 - [44] - Quote If CCP was smart they would wait to release these changes until all of the scout suits and the cloak were finished. From a coding standpoint, cloaks aren't that complicated to do. Cloaks will be a MAJOR game-changer for scouts, and would make most of this debate moot. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1067	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:10:00 - [45] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: If CCP was smart they would wait to release these changes until all of the scout suits and the cloak was finished. From a coding standpoint, cloaks aren't that complicated to do. Cloaks will be a MAJOR game-changer for scouts, and would make most of this debate moot. I believe that was their intention. The CPM stated CCP has listened to their request of not giving bonuses towards things that don't exist yet. That should mean the cloak is done or at least nearly so. As for the cloaking being a "major game-changer," I have my doubts. I already do well enough at avoiding detection now. I can't see the cloak being too much of an improvement. !
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2094	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:15:00 - [46] - Quote You know, Scanners work very well right not... How about replacing the Scanner bonus with a Nanite Injector bonus? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core 422	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:28:00 - [47] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? The new minmatar logi bonus isnt bad at all and reping two heavys with a six kin rep tool at the same time with 100/s reps going on each or 200/s with the core focused on a single heavy at just LVL 3(max skills 110sixkin/219 Corefocused) is nothing to to be disappointed at.The Hacking speed bonus while i will miss it, the oppertunityes to use it was few and far in between most of the time,compared to how many times you would need to rep a team mate through a match. A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
Lucrezia LeGrand 183	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:36:00 - [48] - Quote I'm a Scout and I don't think we should be able to dodge all scanners. A Scout should be able to pass under basic and advanced pretty easily, and under most proto with enough SP (Dampening lv 5 and Scout Lv 5). There should be a few Proto scanners where we would also have to use a dampner (maybe basic grade if fully leveled up). But part of Dust (or what should be part of dust) is that no one person should be able to counter any one other person completely. Make a proto scanner that no one can dodge, but then make it heck-a expensive.
One Eyed King Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 170	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:46:00 - [49] - Quote I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves in regards to these bonuses. It is a good idea that we are having these discussions, but much of the talk seems to not acknowledge that everything seems to be up in the air. From the comments of one CPM, it sounds like they are having some in depth discussion regarding the direction of Dust that may make a lot of this discussion a moot point. Just keep that in mind. Nova knifing scout masochist. I would be a sadist, but CCP won't let me.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2660	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:02:00 - [50] - Quote It would be a touch more fair if the active scanner lit up the user like active radar/sonar does today. The scout would know what part of the map to avoid and the rest of the team would know who to kill first. Add a touch of risk to that reward.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 557	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:05:00 - [51] - Quote Don't worry! Even if you ever do dampen yourself enough to dodge the scanners - they still get a lovely warning message telling them "Someone who could not be scanned * cough cough a scout * is in the area!!" Greatttttttttt
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1073	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:05:00 - [52] - Quote Skihids wrote: It would be a touch more fair if the active scanner lit up the user like active radar/sonar does today. The scout would know what part of the map to avoid and the rest of the team would know who to kill first. Add a touch of risk to that reward. Wouldn't really change much. Both teams spam the scanner enough to give each other cancer now. Does it really matter if the enemy's scanner lights them up if you have already scanned them? !
Lucrezia LeGrand 184	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:08:00 - [53] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Don't worry! Even if you ever do dampen yourself enough to dodge the scanners - they still get a lovely warning message telling them "Someone who could not be scanned * cough cough a scout * is in the area!!" Greatttttttttt I heard that CCP removed that feature. Seems to me that they're telling the truth because I've had people scan an area, scan failed to pick me up, then walk right past my hiding area to start hacking. ya- hoi hoi
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2660	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:32:00 - [54] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Skihids wrote: It would be a touch more fair if the active scanner lit up the user like active radar/sonar does today. The scout would know what part of the map to avoid and the rest of the team would know who to kill first. Add a touch of risk to that reward. Wouldn't really change much. Both teams spam the scanner enough to give each other cancer now. Does it really matter if the enemy's scanner lights them up if you have already scanned them? I'd be more inclined to shoot the scanner first.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 442	Posted - 2014.01.08 21:05:00 - [55] - Quote Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: I'm a Scout and I don't think we should be able to dodge all scanners. A Scout should be able to pass under basic and advanced pretty easily, and under most proto with enough SP (Dampening lv 5 and Scout Lv 5). There should be a few Proto scanners where we would also have to use a dampner (maybe basic grade if fully leveled up). But part of Dust (or what should be part of dust) is that no one person should be able to counter any one other person completely. Make a proto scanner that no one can dodge, but then make it heck-a expensive. I could partly agree IF the SP investment would be close currently scouts need roughly 4 mil SP to beat proto scanners a 900k investment that everyone can use...
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 442	Posted - 2014.01.08 21:06:00 - [56] - Quote Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Don't worry! Even if you ever do dampen yourself enough to dodge the scanners - they still get a lovely warning message telling them "Someone who could not be scanned * cough cough a scout * is in the area!!" Greatttttttttt I heard that CCP removed that feature. Seems to me that they're telling the truth because I've had people scan an area, scan failed to pick me up, then walk right past my hiding area to start hacking. I can assure the s.all margin of error messager is still there as I stil get it
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 694	Posted - 2014.01.08 21:13:00 - [57] - Quote What scanner are you using? Because I never get that message with A-45 and Duvolle Quantum scanners.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1914	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:24:00 - [58] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: What scanner are you using? Because I never get that message with A-45 and Duvolle Quantum scanners. It doesn't seem to work when you spin. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 444	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:36:00 - [59] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: What scanner are you using? Because I never get that message with A-45 and Duvolle Quantum scanners. Well I Used the A-45 Quantum or the flux active scanner depends on the fitting. I will give this some testing tonight with both scanners if possible.
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 52	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:40:00 - [60] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: If this bonus goes through it'll kill stealth tanking for Medium frames entirely. Scouts will need 2 proto dampeners to escape proto quantum Gal Logi scans. Better off just using high HP medium frames and living with getting perma-scanned, or alternatively squadding up with a tanker, getting out to kill, then jumping back in. if you want to avoid proto scans, then become a scout.
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 53	Posted - 2014.01.09 16:00:00 - [61] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: I'm a Scout and I don't think we should be able to dodge all scanners. A Scout should be able to pass under basic and advanced pretty easily, and under most proto with enough SP (Dampening lv 5 and Scout Lv 5). There should be a few Proto scanners where we would also have to use a dampner (maybe basic grade if fully leveled up). But part of Dust (or what should be part of dust) is that no one person should be able to counter any one other person completely. Make a proto scanner that no one can dodge, but then make it heck-a expensive. I could partly agree IF the SP investment would be close currently scouts need roughly 4 mil SP to beat proto scanners a 900k investment that everyone can use... and the gallante proto logi suit doesn't require sp at all? nor does the other equipment that a logi carries? Just think of how much sp you have to invest to become a fully effective proto logi.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 288	Posted - 2014.01.09 16:04:00 - [62] - Quote Spartan MK420 wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: I'm a Scout and I don't think we should be able to dodge all scanners. A Scout should be able to pass under basic and advanced pretty easily, and under most proto with enough SP (Dampening lv 5 and Scout Lv 5). There should be a few Proto scanners where we would also have to use a dampner (maybe basic grade if fully leveled up). But part of Dust (or what should be part of dust) is that no one person should be able to counter any one other person completely. Make a proto scanner that no one can dodge, but then make it heck-a expensive. I could partly agree IF the SP investment would be close currently scouts need roughly 4 mil SP to beat proto scanners a 900k investment that everyone can use... and the gallante proto logi suit doesn't require sp at all? nor does the other equipment that a logi carries? Just think of how much sp you have to invest to become a fully effective proto logi. a proto suit proto modules I use a tablet so beware of typos
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1922	Posted - 2014.01.09 16:21:00 - [63] - Quote Spartan MK420 wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: I'm a Scout and I don't think we should be able to dodge all scanners. A Scout should be able to pass under basic and advanced pretty easily, and under most proto with enough SP (Dampening lv 5 and Scout Lv 5). There should be a few Proto scanners where we would also have to use a dampner (maybe basic grade if fully leveled up). But part of Dust (or what should be part of dust) is that no one person should be able to counter any one other person completely. Make a proto scanner that no one can dodge, but then make it heck-a expensive. I could partly agree IF the SP investment would be close currently scouts need roughly 4 mil SP to beat proto scanners a 900k investment that everyone can use... and the gallante proto logi suit doesn't require sp at all? nor does the other equipment that a logi carries? Just think of how much sp you have to invest to become a fully effective proto logi. And he can do other things with a Logi suit, a Scout's only advantage is ruined with a bonus that already would be great for everything. You could run a stable scanner and pick up everything on the map, plus 4 highs, 5 lows, and have 3 other equipment slots. Stop trying to ruin the Scout. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 55	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:14:00 - [64] - Quote scouts will get their love soon to counter this. the only reason most people hate this idea, is they try to be a scout in a medium frame, which won't be feasible anymore.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1078	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:15:00 - [65] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? the cloak will keep you off of the scanner. solved.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1926	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:44:00 - [66] - Quote low genius wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: At least a Gallente Logi's scanner... They might wanna rethink that new bonus...oh and the Minmatar Logi...ouch. Also, am I going to have to 6 shot a heavy with my shotgun? the cloak will keep you off of the scanner. solved. So what's the point of the bonus? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1929	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:11:00 - [67] - Quote Get those dampaner a on scouts. They are coming. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire

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