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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7857
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
After seeing this, I raged. CCP please, I strongly recommend you reconsider these bonuses.
General assault bonus is bad. The scrambler rifle, combat rifles, and others have rates of fire dependent on how fast the trigger pulls the trigger. It will be useless to many players. Furthermore, the ROF bonus is a double-edged sword, sure you get more DPS, but you burn through your magazine quicker, which can actually hurt a lot of players. The new Minmatar assault bonus to damage mods should have been the general asault bonus, not this ROF bonus.
The worst thing about the new bonuses is the Amarr assault
I specifically skilled into Amarr assault for the heat buildup reduction bonus to laser weapon, particularly for the scrambler rifles. This bonus was the most logical assault bonus there is; assaults are about offense, and this bonus perfectly complements the offensive technology of the race (lasers). The Amarr assault laser bonus should have been the model for what assault bonuses should be like. why why Why WHY WHY is it being removed? This is effectively a nerf against laser and scrambler rifles; at the very least the scrambler rifle and laser rifle should get a base -15% reduction of heat buildup (equivalent of Amarr assault level 3), or change their operation bonuses to heat buildup reduction (5% per level).
I generally don't like the other bonuses based on principle (assaults should get bonuses to offense, bot HP/rep) but they aren't too bad. I would have given the ROF buff to the Gallente assault, a magazine size of explosive and projectiles bonus to the Minmatar assault, and some other thing for Caldari assault. They're not too bad though.
Yes I know they aren't final, but that means there is still time to change it. CCP if you are going this route, please at least change the bonuses for the laser weapon operation bonuses to heat build-up reduction.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
5340
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Yes I know they aren't final
Neither were the armor plate buffs.
Based on past actions (or lack of), I'd say the new bonuses are already written in stone.
Never forget
How to fix the Logi
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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
814
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
ROF would be better to change
I don't think we need damage bonuses for our assault suits when everything else is the same, specifically the Commando. The Commando is the most offensive.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
7597
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Yes I know they aren't final Neither were the armor plate buffs. Based on past actions (or lack of), I'd say the new bonuses are already written in stone.
Or the ferroscale/reactive plates.
It's a shame.
Level 7 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
1046
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
+1.
While I don't have any plans on using an assault suit, I like the bonuses in your thread much more.
Quote:Amarr bonus: 5% heat buildup reduction per lv for laser weaponry. I love this bonus, no need for changing.
Caldari bonus: 3% effective range increase of railgun weapons per lv; good for sniper, rail rifle (SoonGäó), bolt pistol (SoonGäó), & magsec SMG(SoonGäó).
Gallente bonus: 1% damage increase of plasma weapons per lv; AR, shotgun, plasma cannon, ion pistol (SoonGäó).
Minmatar bonus: 5% increase in magazine size per lv for projectile & Minmatar explosive weapons; SMG, flaylock, MD, & Combat rifle (SoonGäó).
!
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Aero Yassavi
Yassavi House
4355
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP, when one of your main assault weapons in a single shot weapon (the scrambler rifle), explain to me why making the assault bonus a ROF bonus is a good idea?
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
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Patrick57
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
3714
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:+1. While I don't have any plans on using an assault suit, I like the bonuses in your thread much more. Quote:Amarr bonus: 5% heat buildup reduction per lv for laser weaponry. I love this bonus, no need for changing.
Caldari bonus: 3% effective range increase of railgun weapons per lv; good for sniper, rail rifle (SoonGäó), bolt pistol (SoonGäó), & magsec SMG(SoonGäó).
Gallente bonus: 1% damage increase of plasma weapons per lv; AR, shotgun, plasma cannon, ion pistol (SoonGäó).
Minmatar bonus: 5% increase in magazine size per lv for projectile & Minmatar explosive weapons; SMG, flaylock, MD, & Combat rifle (SoonGäó).
The Rail Rifle needs no more range 
Logi ak.0 Best Logi :D
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Arx Ardashir
Imperium Aeternum
341
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
The worst thing about the new bonuses is the Amarr assault
I specifically skilled into Amarr assault for the heat buildup reduction bonus to laser weapon, particularly for the scrambler rifles. This bonus was the most logical assault bonus there is; assaults are about offense, and this bonus perfectly complements the offensive technology of the race (lasers). The Amarr assault laser bonus should have been the model for what assault bonuses should be like. why why Why WHY WHY is it being removed? This is effectively a nerf against laser and scrambler rifles; at the very least the scrambler rifle and laser rifle should get a base -15% reduction of heat buildup (equivalent of Amarr assault level 3), or change their operation bonuses to heat buildup reduction (5% per level).
Especially when what it's getting replaced with is a ~7.3hp/s regen rate.
Amarr HAV Speculation
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dzizur
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
yeah, its a stupid idea that every frame in a certain class has the same bonus.. FFS IT WAS WORKING LIKE THAT ALL THE TIME!! didn't you notice? |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7858
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
dzizur wrote:yeah, its a stupid idea that every frame in a certain class has the same bonus.. FFS IT WAS WORKING LIKE THAT ALL THE TIME!! didn't you notice?
I'm not complaining about general role bonuses being a thing, I'm complaining about the specific bonus they chose. They could have picked a general assault bonus that would be useful for all suits of that type.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
11667
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
As far as I am aware 1.8 is far from locking.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7858
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:As far as I am aware 1.8 is far from locking.
Good, there is still hope. Please plead my case to CCP (assuming you agree on one of my points or requests).
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Aisha Ctarl
Ctarl - Ctarl Empire
2717
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:As far as I am aware 1.8 is far from locking.
I pray to God that that's true.
Aisha Ctarl for CPM1
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Patrick57
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
3720
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Just imagine how OP the Laser Rifle would actually be though :o Except only a few people would use it since it will heat up so fast.
Logi ak.0 Best Logi :D
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
5392
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
But...
But....
I want my Duvolle that has Balac level fire rate!
I fricking love the way the Balac sounds because of it's high fire rate 
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Maximus Stryker
Who Are Those Guys
760
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
my 2 cents:
Assault Suit Bonus: +5% to damage bonus of damage modifier modules per level.
Amarr Assault Bonus: +5% to reduction of heat buildup of laser weapons per level.
Assault Suit Bonus: +5% to damage bonus of damage modifier modules per level.
Caldari Assault Bonus: +5% to HP bonus of shield extender modules per level.
Assault Suit Bonus: +5% to damage bonus of damage modifier modules per level.
Gallente Assault Bonus: +5% to HP bonus of armor plate modules per level.
Assault Suit Bonus: +5% to damage bonus of damage modifier modules per level.
Minmatar Assault Bonus: +5% to hacking speed per level. OR +5% range of explosive weapons per level
Faction Channels for FW Staging
PIE Ground Control | Caldari Hierarchy | Turalyon | Chosen Matari
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7859
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:But... But.... I want my Duvolle that has Balac level fire rate! I fricking love the way the Balac sounds because of it's high fire rate
That's why it should be a Gallente assault bonus, don't want those Caldari scum getting that same bonus, do you?
Seriously, every assault suit's rail rifle will have crazy high ROF, negating its slight weakness at close range.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
5393
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Cat Merc wrote:But... But.... I want my Duvolle that has Balac level fire rate! I fricking love the way the Balac sounds because of it's high fire rate That's why it should be a Gallente assault bonus, don't want those Caldari scum getting that same bonus, do you? Seriously, every assault suit's rail rifle will have crazy high ROF, negating its slight weakness at close range.
Caldari scum can suck it :D
But I still want a rep/plate bonus... Meow?
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
234
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Damage mods are broken and should not be the bonus to assault suits, hell I think that's the only thing that could make me toss the Assault suit aside and never come back to it.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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Avallo Kantor
Scions of Athra
300
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
I am worried that if changes aren't made to the Amarr Assault, or other changes in general are made to this situation, the SR (normal variant) will become the least effective rifle for an Assault suit to use, even the Amarr.
Those that prefer it may find the commando suits are better at assaulting with it than the Assault suits are. |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7866
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:I am worried that if changes aren't made to the Amarr Assault, or other changes in general are made to this situation, the SR (normal variant) will become the least effective rifle for an Assault suit to use, even the Amarr.
Those that prefer it may find the commando suits are better at assaulting with it than the Assault suits are.
I might have to find a new weapon to spec into.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Maximus Stryker
Who Are Those Guys
762
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Posted - 2014.01.07 21:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:Damage mods are broken and should not be the bonus to assault suits, hell I think that's the only thing that could make me toss the Assault suit aside and never come back to it.
Can you please provide more detail as to how the damage mods are broken?
Faction Channels for FW Staging
PIE Ground Control | Caldari Hierarchy | Turalyon | Chosen Matari
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
745
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Posted - 2014.01.07 21:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
I agree with everything except the bonus to damage mods. The bonus should be tied to the racial weapons similar to how the commando bonuses will be, but affecting different stats. The current Amarr assault should be the TEMPLATE for the other assault bonuses. I'd like to see bonuses like increased clip sizes for racial assault suit/racial weapon pairs, or something along those lines.
I agree that the repper bonus is garbage on the Amarr assault. At the very least just build in the reps like the existing Amarr logi suit so you can fit an extra plate if you want. That should help keep things better in-line with the Gallente's armor bonus.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7873
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Posted - 2014.01.07 21:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:I agree with everything except the bonus to damage mods. The bonus should be tied to the racial weapons similar to how the commando bonuses will be, but affecting different stats. The current Amarr assault should be the TEMPLATE for the other assault bonuses. I'd like to see bonuses like increased clip sizes for racial assault suit/racial weapon pairs, or something along those lines.
I agree that the repper bonus is garbage on the Amarr assault. At the very least just build in the reps like the existing Amarr logi suit so you can fit an extra plate if you want. That should help keep things better in-line with the Gallente's armor bonus.
What do you want for the general (not race specific) assault bonus?
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
745
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Posted - 2014.01.07 21:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Vell0cet wrote:I agree with everything except the bonus to damage mods. The bonus should be tied to the racial weapons similar to how the commando bonuses will be, but affecting different stats. The current Amarr assault should be the TEMPLATE for the other assault bonuses. I'd like to see bonuses like increased clip sizes for racial assault suit/racial weapon pairs, or something along those lines.
I agree that the repper bonus is garbage on the Amarr assault. At the very least just build in the reps like the existing Amarr logi suit so you can fit an extra plate if you want. That should help keep things better in-line with the Gallente's armor bonus. What do you want for the general (not race specific) assault bonus?
Not sure. I kind of think they should both be race-specific. One should be defensive (Amarr/Gallente get Armor, Minmatar/Caldari get Shield) and the other offensive and linked to their race's weapons. I'd like to see a focus on racial suit/weapon synergy. It will make the game much more interesting and tactical.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7874
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Posted - 2014.01.07 22:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Vell0cet wrote:I agree with everything except the bonus to damage mods. The bonus should be tied to the racial weapons similar to how the commando bonuses will be, but affecting different stats. The current Amarr assault should be the TEMPLATE for the other assault bonuses. I'd like to see bonuses like increased clip sizes for racial assault suit/racial weapon pairs, or something along those lines.
I agree that the repper bonus is garbage on the Amarr assault. At the very least just build in the reps like the existing Amarr logi suit so you can fit an extra plate if you want. That should help keep things better in-line with the Gallente's armor bonus. What do you want for the general (not race specific) assault bonus? Not sure. I kind of think they should both be race-specific. One should be defensive (Amarr/Gallente get armor, Minmatar/Caldari get shield) and the other offensive and linked to their race's weapons. I'd like to see a focus on racial suit/weapon synergy. It will make the game much more interesting and tactical.
It doesn't work that way, each specialization (not just assaults) get a general role bonus that they all share, and one unique racial bonus. If assaults got two racial bonuses, and no general role bonus, then every other specialization should as well.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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DJINN B4lock
Ancient Textiles.
304
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Posted - 2014.01.07 22:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:Damage mods are broken and should not be the bonus to assault suits, hell I think that's the only thing that could make me toss the Assault suit aside and never come back to it.
It would make the minmatar assault a redline sniping God!
DJINN B4lock, CEO Ancient Textiles. The premium emporium of fine fabrics from the dusty Orient.
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LEHON Xeon
Pradox XVI
12
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Posted - 2014.01.07 22:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
With these new suits it's almost kinda like a throwback to older patches. RR's will be the new old ARs in terms of excessive range and now almost fire rate. Mini assaults with that damage mod multiplier will be like old logi suit versions in terms of sheer damage. Wonder what else will revert back to the early days only under different suit styles and bonuses.
If Walking Is So Good For You, Then Why Does My Mailman Look Like Jabba The Hut?
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
745
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Posted - 2014.01.07 22:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Vell0cet wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Vell0cet wrote:I agree with everything except the bonus to damage mods. The bonus should be tied to the racial weapons similar to how the commando bonuses will be, but affecting different stats. The current Amarr assault should be the TEMPLATE for the other assault bonuses. I'd like to see bonuses like increased clip sizes for racial assault suit/racial weapon pairs, or something along those lines.
I agree that the repper bonus is garbage on the Amarr assault. At the very least just build in the reps like the existing Amarr logi suit so you can fit an extra plate if you want. That should help keep things better in-line with the Gallente's armor bonus. What do you want for the general (not race specific) assault bonus? Not sure. I kind of think they should both be race-specific. One should be defensive (Amarr/Gallente get armor, Minmatar/Caldari get shield) and the other offensive and linked to their race's weapons. I'd like to see a focus on racial suit/weapon synergy. It will make the game much more interesting and tactical. It doesn't work that way, each specialization (not just assaults) get a general role bonus that they all share, and one unique racial bonus. If assaults got two racial bonuses, and no general role bonus, then every other specialization should as well.
Maybe they should too. It seems like a stupid and arbitrary limitation IMO.
Edit: If it HAD to be a generic bonus, maybe something like a 5%/level reduction in PG/CPU of all defensive modules.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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RedBleach LeSanglant
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
507
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Posted - 2014.01.07 22:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:After seeing this, I raged. CCP please, I strongly recommend you reconsider these bonuses. General assault bonus is bad. The scrambler rifle, combat rifles, and others have rates of fire dependent on how fast the trigger pulls the trigger. It will be useless to many players. Furthermore, the ROF bonus is a double-edged sword, sure you get more DPS, but you burn through your magazine quicker, which can actually hurt a lot of players. The new Minmatar assault bonus to damage mods should have been the general asault bonus, not this ROF bonus. The worst thing about the new bonuses is the Amarr assault I specifically skilled into Amarr assault for the heat buildup reduction bonus to laser weapon, particularly for the scrambler rifles. This bonus was the most logical assault bonus there is; assaults are about offense, and this bonus perfectly complements the offensive technology of the race (lasers). The Amarr assault laser bonus should have been the model for what assault bonuses should be like. why why Why WHY WHY is it being removed? This is effectively a nerf against laser and scrambler rifles; at the very least the scrambler rifle and laser rifle should get a base -15% reduction of heat buildup (equivalent of Amarr assault level 3), or change their operation bonuses to heat buildup reduction (5% per level). I generally don't like the other bonuses based on principle (assaults should get bonuses to offense, not HP/rep) but they aren't too bad. I would have given the ROF buff to the Gallente assault, a magazine size of explosive and projectiles bonus to the Minmatar assault, and some other thing for Caldari assault. They're not too bad though. Yes I know they aren't final, but that means there is still time to change it. CCP if you are going this route, please at least change the bonuses for the laser weapon operation bonuses to heat build-up reduction. I should probably mention I really like the new logi, commando, and sentinel bonuses for the most part.
I almost agreed with all of it. But that last line of liking the logi bonuses.... I hope that sense would change your mind. But you and I have rarely agreed when it came to logi topics.
I dislike the racial logi bonuses as I don't think that it should be tied to a particular item. What about when new equipment comes out? The shield bubble is authored by what race? And Webifiers? and all the other stuff that may come in the future. No, like other racials that have bonuses to particular kinds of weapons like the laser category so too should the logistics bonuses work that way.
I would prefer to have an equipment skill tree, similar to the weapons' branches that offer various bonuses and improvements, that would address each item.
The bonuses for the logistics should be more of either a prominent trait for the race in defense or general equipment efficiency in the equipment authored by that race. Right now Amarr has only drop uplinks - and i do truly hate DUs. But the min bonus to repair tool.... I may have to forsake my race for that. Empress forgive me.
But I still don't like it. I absolutely hate drop uplinks and feel that it is not the Logi's job to place or carry them, that is for the rest of the team - we have to haul all the rest of this crap around to serve their needs and .... ranting sorry.
Amarr bonus is crap. Gallente is Ok. Caldari is OK. And Minmatar is OK. But I Do NOT like the idea of tying one piece of equipment to a specific race. - besides there is still the issue of adding bonuses to equipment that they are still having difficulties coding around. So, how true is this? I don't know, but so far I don't think this is the best solution we can come up with. Perhaps CCP will change its mind or plan on changing it down the road.
The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7878
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Posted - 2014.01.07 22:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'm really really really hoping CCP foresaw this and did tweaks to the laser tech weapons (LR & SCR) or their operation skills to compensate.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
584
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Posted - 2014.01.07 23:03:00 -
[32] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:I am worried that if changes aren't made to the Amarr Assault, or other changes in general are made to this situation, the SR (normal variant) will become the least effective rifle for an Assault suit to use, even the Amarr.
Those that prefer it may find the commando suits are better at assaulting with it than the Assault suits are.
That's not exactly saying much. There are other weapons in the game that have it much worse than the SR. |
Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
832
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Posted - 2014.01.07 23:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:CCP, when one of your main assault weapons in a single shot weapon (the scrambler rifle), explain to me why making the assault bonus a ROF bonus is a good idea?
They got tired of ****ing with the Gal assaults (5% shield recharge buff, pfft!). Besides the ScR could do with a nerf anyway, not that this is a real nerf though, there are plenty of people out there right now, not using the Amarr assault suit and still utterly destroying people with the ScR.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7882
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Posted - 2014.01.07 23:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:CCP, when one of your main assault weapons in a single shot weapon (the scrambler rifle), explain to me why making the assault bonus a ROF bonus is a good idea? They got tired of ****ing with the Gal assaults (5% shield recharge buff, pfft!). Besides the ScR could do with a nerf anyway, not that this is a real nerf though, there are plenty of people out there right now, not using the Amarr assault suit and still utterly destroying people with the ScR.
No, it does not need a nerf, especially since the automatic rifles (including the arguably OP rail rifle) is now getting a 10% DPS buff through the assault's rate of fire bonus.
There are tons of other bonuses they could have gone with for the general assault bonus then the ROF thing. This is just as bad as the shield recharge bonus in that it won't help many players; previously the Gallente assaults are getting screwed, now its certain weapon users getting screwed.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1489
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Posted - 2014.01.07 23:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:After seeing this, I raged. CCP please, I strongly recommend you reconsider these bonuses. General assault bonus is bad. The scrambler rifle, combat rifles, and others have rates of fire dependent on how fast the trigger pulls the trigger. It will be useless to many players. Furthermore, the ROF bonus is a double-edged sword, sure you get more DPS, but you burn through your magazine quicker, which can actually hurt a lot of players. The new Minmatar assault bonus to damage mods should have been the general asault bonus, not this ROF bonus. The worst thing about the new bonuses is the Amarr assault I specifically skilled into Amarr assault for the heat buildup reduction bonus to laser weapon, particularly for the scrambler rifles. This bonus was the most logical assault bonus there is; assaults are about offense, and this bonus perfectly complements the offensive technology of the race (lasers). The Amarr assault laser bonus should have been the model for what assault bonuses should be like. why why Why WHY WHY is it being removed? This is effectively a nerf against laser and scrambler rifles; at the very least the scrambler rifle and laser rifle should get a base -15% reduction of heat buildup (equivalent of Amarr assault level 3), or change their operation bonuses to heat buildup reduction (5% per level). I generally don't like the other bonuses based on principle (assaults should get bonuses to offense, not HP/rep) but they aren't too bad. I would have given the ROF buff to the Gallente assault, a magazine size of explosive and projectiles bonus to the Minmatar assault, and some other thing for Caldari assault. They're not too bad though. Yes I know they aren't final, but that means there is still time to change it. CCP if you are going this route, please at least change the bonuses for the laser weapon operation bonuses to heat build-up reduction. I should probably mention I really like the new logi, commando, and sentinel bonuses for the most part.
I disagree, I personally believe the Amarr Bonus was the worst one, it penalised you for not using a heat based weapon on it, then it penalised those who used the heat based weapons on any other suit.
The ROF bonus is perfect BECAUSE it's a double edged sword, it specifically reduces it's chance at OPness, however I would have said the Amarr Bonus should have been 3% to Armour Plate 3% to Shield Extender, The Minmatar should have been +5% to shield recharge +5% to Armour Repper, that woukd have made more sense.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
|
Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
832
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 23:31:00 -
[36] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:CCP, when one of your main assault weapons in a single shot weapon (the scrambler rifle), explain to me why making the assault bonus a ROF bonus is a good idea? They got tired of ****ing with the Gal assaults (5% shield recharge buff, pfft!). Besides the ScR could do with a nerf anyway, not that this is a real nerf though, there are plenty of people out there right now, not using the Amarr assault suit and still utterly destroying people with the ScR. No, it does not need a nerf, especially since the automatic rifles (including the arguably OP rail rifle) is now getting a 10% DPS buff through the assault's rate of fire bonus. There are tons of other bonuses they could have gone with for the general assault bonus then the ROF thing. This is just as bad as the shield recharge bonus in that it won't help many players; previously the Gallente assaults are getting screwed, now its certain weapon users getting screwed.
The auto rifles all have compairable TTK. The only one out of whack is the ScR. Here take a look at this thread, where I mathematically break it down in detail, and then come to the realization that the ScR does indeed need a nerf.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275&find=unread
Also the vanilla CR will be affected by the suit bonus. Higher RoF means shorter burst time, which in turn means shorter burst intervals.
As well there is a fully-auto version of the ScR.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7884
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 23:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:CCP, when one of your main assault weapons in a single shot weapon (the scrambler rifle), explain to me why making the assault bonus a ROF bonus is a good idea? They got tired of ****ing with the Gal assaults (5% shield recharge buff, pfft!). Besides the ScR could do with a nerf anyway, not that this is a real nerf though, there are plenty of people out there right now, not using the Amarr assault suit and still utterly destroying people with the ScR. No, it does not need a nerf, especially since the automatic rifles (including the arguably OP rail rifle) is now getting a 10% DPS buff through the assault's rate of fire bonus. There are tons of other bonuses they could have gone with for the general assault bonus then the ROF thing. This is just as bad as the shield recharge bonus in that it won't help many players; previously the Gallente assaults are getting screwed, now its certain weapon users getting screwed. The auto rifles all have compairable TTK the only one out of whack is the ScR. Here take a loil at this thread, where I mathematically break it down in detail, and then come to the realization that the ScR does indeed need a nerf. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275&find=unreadAlso the vanilla CR will be affected by the suit bonus higher RoF means sorter burst time, which in turn means shorter burst intervals. As well there is a fully-auto version of the ScR.
Another rifle could kill you in the time it takes to fully charge a SCR. If you want the SCR to have TTK the same as all other rifles, then get rid of overheat as well and make the SCR the same as all other rifles in that respect as well.
You can't look at the strengths without looking at the weaknesses.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7884
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 23:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:After seeing this, I raged. CCP please, I strongly recommend you reconsider these bonuses. General assault bonus is bad. The scrambler rifle, combat rifles, and others have rates of fire dependent on how fast the trigger pulls the trigger. It will be useless to many players. Furthermore, the ROF bonus is a double-edged sword, sure you get more DPS, but you burn through your magazine quicker, which can actually hurt a lot of players. The new Minmatar assault bonus to damage mods should have been the general asault bonus, not this ROF bonus. The worst thing about the new bonuses is the Amarr assault I specifically skilled into Amarr assault for the heat buildup reduction bonus to laser weapon, particularly for the scrambler rifles. This bonus was the most logical assault bonus there is; assaults are about offense, and this bonus perfectly complements the offensive technology of the race (lasers). The Amarr assault laser bonus should have been the model for what assault bonuses should be like. why why Why WHY WHY is it being removed? This is effectively a nerf against laser and scrambler rifles; at the very least the scrambler rifle and laser rifle should get a base -15% reduction of heat buildup (equivalent of Amarr assault level 3), or change their operation bonuses to heat buildup reduction (5% per level). I generally don't like the other bonuses based on principle (assaults should get bonuses to offense, not HP/rep) but they aren't too bad. I would have given the ROF buff to the Gallente assault, a magazine size of explosive and projectiles bonus to the Minmatar assault, and some other thing for Caldari assault. They're not too bad though. Yes I know they aren't final, but that means there is still time to change it. CCP if you are going this route, please at least change the bonuses for the laser weapon operation bonuses to heat build-up reduction. I should probably mention I really like the new logi, commando, and sentinel bonuses for the most part. I disagree, I personally believe the Amarr Bonus was the worst one, it penalised you for not using a heat based weapon on it, then it penalised those who used the heat based weapons on any other suit. The ROF bonus is perfect BECAUSE it's a double edged sword, it specifically reduces it's chance at OPness, however I would have said the Amarr Bonus should have been 3% to Armour Plate 3% to Shield Extender, The Minmatar should have been +5% to shield recharge +5% to Armour Repper, that woukd have made more sense.
It only make sense that manufacturers would make their suits and weapons best suited for each other.
No other specialization has a double-edged sword bonus, its not consistent with the design of the others. Could you imagine if every skill bonus in the game had some annoying side effect?
At the very least, the laser rifle and scrambler rifle needs a heat buildup reduction bonus for their operation skill, or a decrease of heat buildup in the base stats to compensate.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Shruikan Iceeye
0uter.Heaven
139
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Posted - 2014.01.07 23:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kagehoshi you posted on a thread (i cant find it) about how the other new suits bonuses are consistent but the Assault's bonuses are sort of random and "wild carded"
put that point in this thread because it's very valid and i agree with you.
Basically, Assault's are offensive by nature and their bonuses should be focused on optimizing their attacking capabilities. IE the Amarr Assault's Laser WEAPONRY bonus.
The current Amarr Assault suit bonus is what the new bonuses should be like. MAKING A WEAPONS WEAKNESSES LESS WEAK
That Pretty Motherfucker
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1489
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Posted - 2014.01.07 23:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:After seeing this, I raged. CCP please, I strongly recommend you reconsider these bonuses. General assault bonus is bad. The scrambler rifle, combat rifles, and others have rates of fire dependent on how fast the trigger pulls the trigger. It will be useless to many players. Furthermore, the ROF bonus is a double-edged sword, sure you get more DPS, but you burn through your magazine quicker, which can actually hurt a lot of players. The new Minmatar assault bonus to damage mods should have been the general asault bonus, not this ROF bonus. The worst thing about the new bonuses is the Amarr assault I specifically skilled into Amarr assault for the heat buildup reduction bonus to laser weapon, particularly for the scrambler rifles. This bonus was the most logical assault bonus there is; assaults are about offense, and this bonus perfectly complements the offensive technology of the race (lasers). The Amarr assault laser bonus should have been the model for what assault bonuses should be like. why why Why WHY WHY is it being removed? This is effectively a nerf against laser and scrambler rifles; at the very least the scrambler rifle and laser rifle should get a base -15% reduction of heat buildup (equivalent of Amarr assault level 3), or change their operation bonuses to heat buildup reduction (5% per level). I generally don't like the other bonuses based on principle (assaults should get bonuses to offense, not HP/rep) but they aren't too bad. I would have given the ROF buff to the Gallente assault, a magazine size of explosive and projectiles bonus to the Minmatar assault, and some other thing for Caldari assault. They're not too bad though. Yes I know they aren't final, but that means there is still time to change it. CCP if you are going this route, please at least change the bonuses for the laser weapon operation bonuses to heat build-up reduction. I should probably mention I really like the new logi, commando, and sentinel bonuses for the most part. I disagree, I personally believe the Amarr Bonus was the worst one, it penalised you for not using a heat based weapon on it, then it penalised those who used the heat based weapons on any other suit. The ROF bonus is perfect BECAUSE it's a double edged sword, it specifically reduces it's chance at OPness, however I would have said the Amarr Bonus should have been 3% to Armour Plate 3% to Shield Extender, The Minmatar should have been +5% to shield recharge +5% to Armour Repper, that woukd have made more sense. It only make sense that manufacturers would make their suits and weapons best suited for each other. No other specialization has a double-edged sword bonus, its not consistent with the design of the others. Could you imagine if every skill bonus in the game had some annoying side effect? At the very least, the laser rifle and scrambler rifle needs a heat buildup reduction bonus for their operation skill, or a decrease of heat buildup in the base stats to compensate.
The other suits have negatives built directly into the suits design. By design there is no penalty to using an assault suit over any of the others, it seems fair its bonus potentially comes at price.
As for the heat weapons, isn't that in the weapon skill tree already, under the proficiency bonus?
If not then, then it would make sense to add it into the skill tree, I'll give you that.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
|
|
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7885
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 23:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:After seeing this, I raged. CCP please, I strongly recommend you reconsider these bonuses. General assault bonus is bad. The scrambler rifle, combat rifles, and others have rates of fire dependent on how fast the trigger pulls the trigger. It will be useless to many players. Furthermore, the ROF bonus is a double-edged sword, sure you get more DPS, but you burn through your magazine quicker, which can actually hurt a lot of players. The new Minmatar assault bonus to damage mods should have been the general asault bonus, not this ROF bonus. The worst thing about the new bonuses is the Amarr assault I specifically skilled into Amarr assault for the heat buildup reduction bonus to laser weapon, particularly for the scrambler rifles. This bonus was the most logical assault bonus there is; assaults are about offense, and this bonus perfectly complements the offensive technology of the race (lasers). The Amarr assault laser bonus should have been the model for what assault bonuses should be like. why why Why WHY WHY is it being removed? This is effectively a nerf against laser and scrambler rifles; at the very least the scrambler rifle and laser rifle should get a base -15% reduction of heat buildup (equivalent of Amarr assault level 3), or change their operation bonuses to heat buildup reduction (5% per level). I generally don't like the other bonuses based on principle (assaults should get bonuses to offense, not HP/rep) but they aren't too bad. I would have given the ROF buff to the Gallente assault, a magazine size of explosive and projectiles bonus to the Minmatar assault, and some other thing for Caldari assault. They're not too bad though. Yes I know they aren't final, but that means there is still time to change it. CCP if you are going this route, please at least change the bonuses for the laser weapon operation bonuses to heat build-up reduction. I should probably mention I really like the new logi, commando, and sentinel bonuses for the most part. I disagree, I personally believe the Amarr Bonus was the worst one, it penalised you for not using a heat based weapon on it, then it penalised those who used the heat based weapons on any other suit. The ROF bonus is perfect BECAUSE it's a double edged sword, it specifically reduces it's chance at OPness, however I would have said the Amarr Bonus should have been 3% to Armour Plate 3% to Shield Extender, The Minmatar should have been +5% to shield recharge +5% to Armour Repper, that woukd have made more sense. It only make sense that manufacturers would make their suits and weapons best suited for each other. No other specialization has a double-edged sword bonus, its not consistent with the design of the others. Could you imagine if every skill bonus in the game had some annoying side effect? At the very least, the laser rifle and scrambler rifle needs a heat buildup reduction bonus for their operation skill, or a decrease of heat buildup in the base stats to compensate. The other suits have negatives built directly into the suits design. By design there is no penalty to using an assault suit over any of the others, it seems fair its bonus potentially comes at price. As for the heat weapons, isn't that in the weapon skill tree already, under the proficiency bonus? If not then, then it would make sense to add it into the skill tree, I'll give you that.
That's because ssault suits have no real built-in weaknesses, but they don't particularly excel at anything either. If they don't have a big strength (like 3 equipment slots, or a heavy weapon slot), they don't really need a weakness.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
832
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Posted - 2014.01.08 00:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:CCP, when one of your main assault weapons in a single shot weapon (the scrambler rifle), explain to me why making the assault bonus a ROF bonus is a good idea? They got tired of ****ing with the Gal assaults (5% shield recharge buff, pfft!). Besides the ScR could do with a nerf anyway, not that this is a real nerf though, there are plenty of people out there right now, not using the Amarr assault suit and still utterly destroying people with the ScR. No, it does not need a nerf, especially since the automatic rifles (including the arguably OP rail rifle) is now getting a 10% DPS buff through the assault's rate of fire bonus. There are tons of other bonuses they could have gone with for the general assault bonus then the ROF thing. This is just as bad as the shield recharge bonus in that it won't help many players; previously the Gallente assaults are getting screwed, now its certain weapon users getting screwed. The auto rifles all have compairable TTK the only one out of whack is the ScR. Here take a loil at this thread, where I mathematically break it down in detail, and then come to the realization that the ScR does indeed need a nerf. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275&find=unreadAlso the vanilla CR will be affected by the suit bonus higher RoF means sorter burst time, which in turn means shorter burst intervals. As well there is a fully-auto version of the ScR. Another rifle could kill you in the time it takes to fully charge a SCR. If you want the SCR to have TTK the same as all other rifles, then get rid of overheat as well and make the SCR the same as all other rifles in that respect as well. You can't look at the strengths without looking at the weaknesses.
Well, the simple answer is to increase the scrambler rifle's "time to overheat" (overall reduction to heat build up) when increasing it's TTK necessary to bring it in line with the other weapons. This should be done proportionately of course, as to either retain its current damage output before overheat or increase it inorder to bring it more in line with the other weapon's damage per clip. Heat build up can be mitigated by simply not rapid spamming the trigger all the time, so I think that the ScR should still have less rounds before overhear than other rifles have per clip.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Paran Tadec
The Hetairoi
1860
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 00:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:After seeing this, I raged. CCP please, I strongly recommend you reconsider these bonuses. General assault bonus is bad. The scrambler rifle, combat rifles, and others have rates of fire dependent on how fast the trigger pulls the trigger. It will be useless to many players. Furthermore, the ROF bonus is a double-edged sword, sure you get more DPS, but you burn through your magazine quicker, which can actually hurt a lot of players. The new Minmatar assault bonus to damage mods should have been the general asault bonus, not this ROF bonus. The worst thing about the new bonuses is the Amarr assault I specifically skilled into Amarr assault for the heat buildup reduction bonus to laser weapon, particularly for the scrambler rifles. This bonus was the most logical assault bonus there is; assaults are about offense, and this bonus perfectly complements the offensive technology of the race (lasers). The Amarr assault laser bonus should have been the model for what assault bonuses should be like. why why Why WHY WHY is it being removed? This is effectively a nerf against laser and scrambler rifles; at the very least the scrambler rifle and laser rifle should get a base -15% reduction of heat buildup (equivalent of Amarr assault level 3), or change their operation bonuses to heat buildup reduction (5% per level). I generally don't like the other bonuses based on principle (assaults should get bonuses to offense, not HP/rep) but they aren't too bad. I would have given the ROF buff to the Gallente assault, a magazine size of explosive and projectiles bonus to the Minmatar assault, and some other thing for Caldari assault. They're not too bad though. Yes I know they aren't final, but that means there is still time to change it. CCP if you are going this route, please at least change the bonuses for the laser weapon operation bonuses to heat build-up reduction. I should probably mention I really like the new logi, commando, and sentinel bonuses for the most part.
As i suggested a while back, roll back 10% dmg on all hitscan weapons, and then build that 10% damage as 2% per level of the assualt skill.
Bittervet Proficiency V
thanks logibro!
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1489
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Posted - 2014.01.08 00:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:After seeing this, I raged. CCP please, I strongly recommend you reconsider these bonuses. General assault bonus is bad. The scrambler rifle, combat rifles, and others have rates of fire dependent on how fast the trigger pulls the trigger. It will be useless to many players. Furthermore, the ROF bonus is a double-edged sword, sure you get more DPS, but you burn through your magazine quicker, which can actually hurt a lot of players. The new Minmatar assault bonus to damage mods should have been the general asault bonus, not this ROF bonus. The worst thing about the new bonuses is the Amarr assault I specifically skilled into Amarr assault for the heat buildup reduction bonus to laser weapon, particularly for the scrambler rifles. This bonus was the most logical assault bonus there is; assaults are about offense, and this bonus perfectly complements the offensive technology of the race (lasers). The Amarr assault laser bonus should have been the model for what assault bonuses should be like. why why Why WHY WHY is it being removed? This is effectively a nerf against laser and scrambler rifles; at the very least the scrambler rifle and laser rifle should get a base -15% reduction of heat buildup (equivalent of Amarr assault level 3), or change their operation bonuses to heat buildup reduction (5% per level). I generally don't like the other bonuses based on principle (assaults should get bonuses to offense, not HP/rep) but they aren't too bad. I would have given the ROF buff to the Gallente assault, a magazine size of explosive and projectiles bonus to the Minmatar assault, and some other thing for Caldari assault. They're not too bad though. Yes I know they aren't final, but that means there is still time to change it. CCP if you are going this route, please at least change the bonuses for the laser weapon operation bonuses to heat build-up reduction. I should probably mention I really like the new logi, commando, and sentinel bonuses for the most part. I disagree, I personally believe the Amarr Bonus was the worst one, it penalised you for not using a heat based weapon on it, then it penalised those who used the heat based weapons on any other suit. The ROF bonus is perfect BECAUSE it's a double edged sword, it specifically reduces it's chance at OPness, however I would have said the Amarr Bonus should have been 3% to Armour Plate 3% to Shield Extender, The Minmatar should have been +5% to shield recharge +5% to Armour Repper, that woukd have made more sense. It only make sense that manufacturers would make their suits and weapons best suited for each other. No other specialization has a double-edged sword bonus, its not consistent with the design of the others. Could you imagine if every skill bonus in the game had some annoying side effect? At the very least, the laser rifle and scrambler rifle needs a heat buildup reduction bonus for their operation skill, or a decrease of heat buildup in the base stats to compensate. The other suits have negatives built directly into the suits design. By design there is no penalty to using an assault suit over any of the others, it seems fair its bonus potentially comes at price. As for the heat weapons, isn't that in the weapon skill tree already, under the proficiency bonus? If not then, then it would make sense to add it into the skill tree, I'll give you that. That's because ssault suits have no real built-in weaknesses, but they don't particularly excel at anything either. If they don't have a big strength (like 3 equipment slots, or a heavy weapon slot), they don't really need a weakness.
No but they have a large array of slots, a light weapon and a sidearm, not to mention an equipment slot. They litterally have all the good points none of the bad. Giving all Assaults the Minnie bonus would overpower them.
A rate of fire increase improves the assault's ability to shoot from cover, it gives the Assault the ability to Assault a fortified position better. The only real negative it comes with is if you use a boltshot weapon, which is designed to slow firing.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
|
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7886
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 00:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
I disagree, I personally believe the Amarr Bonus was the worst one, it penalised you for not using a heat based weapon on it, then it penalised those who used the heat based weapons on any other suit.
The ROF bonus is perfect BECAUSE it's a double edged sword, it specifically reduces it's chance at OPness, however I would have said the Amarr Bonus should have been 3% to Armour Plate 3% to Shield Extender, The Minmatar should have been +5% to shield recharge +5% to Armour Repper, that woukd have made more sense.
It only make sense that manufacturers would make their suits and weapons best suited for each other. No other specialization has a double-edged sword bonus, its not consistent with the design of the others. Could you imagine if every skill bonus in the game had some annoying side effect? At the very least, the laser rifle and scrambler rifle needs a heat buildup reduction bonus for their operation skill, or a decrease of heat buildup in the base stats to compensate. The other suits have negatives built directly into the suits design. By design there is no penalty to using an assault suit over any of the others, it seems fair its bonus potentially comes at price. As for the heat weapons, isn't that in the weapon skill tree already, under the proficiency bonus? If not then, then it would make sense to add it into the skill tree, I'll give you that. That's because ssault suits have no real built-in weaknesses, but they don't particularly excel at anything either. If they don't have a big strength (like 3 equipment slots, or a heavy weapon slot), they don't really need a weakness. No but they have a large array of slots, a light weapon and a sidearm, not to mention an equipment slot. They litterally have all the good points none of the bad. Giving all Assaults the Minnie bonus would overpower them. A rate of fire increase improves the assault's ability to shoot from cover, it gives the Assault the ability to Assault a fortified position better. The only real negative it comes with is if you use a boltshot weapon, which is designed to slow firing.
Weather or not the damage mod bonus would be OP for all assaults, or a double-edged bonus is a good idea, the new assault bonus unfairly excludes the SCR, one of the 4 main assault weapons of the game. There were other bonuses that could have been used that would be more inclusive.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
|
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1489
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 00:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
It only make sense that manufacturers would make their suits and weapons best suited for each other.
No other specialization has a double-edged sword bonus, its not consistent with the design of the others. Could you imagine if every skill bonus in the game had some annoying side effect?
At the very least, the laser rifle and scrambler rifle needs a heat buildup reduction bonus for their operation skill, or a decrease of heat buildup in the base stats to compensate.
The other suits have negatives built directly into the suits design. By design there is no penalty to using an assault suit over any of the others, it seems fair its bonus potentially comes at price. As for the heat weapons, isn't that in the weapon skill tree already, under the proficiency bonus? If not then, then it would make sense to add it into the skill tree, I'll give you that. That's because ssault suits have no real built-in weaknesses, but they don't particularly excel at anything either. If they don't have a big strength (like 3 equipment slots, or a heavy weapon slot), they don't really need a weakness. No but they have a large array of slots, a light weapon and a sidearm, not to mention an equipment slot. They litterally have all the good points none of the bad. Giving all Assaults the Minnie bonus would overpower them. A rate of fire increase improves the assault's ability to shoot from cover, it gives the Assault the ability to Assault a fortified position better. The only real negative it comes with is if you use a boltshot weapon, which is designed to slow firing. Weather or not the damage mod bonus would be OP for all assaults, or a double-edged bonus is a good idea, the new assault bonus unfairly excludes the SCR, one of the 4 main assault weapons of the game. There were other bonuses that could have been used that would be more inclusive.
It doesn't exclude the AScR and I would like to point out the standard ScR is mainly a skillshot kinda weapon, there are few bonuses that wouldn't be overpowered. The only 2 that come to mind are magazine size (also kinda pointless) and spare ammo (pointless in a squad).
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2079
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 00:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
Expected knee jerk QQ. Got a well thought out and well articulated concern. +1 for thought.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7890
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 00:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
The other suits have negatives built directly into the suits design. By design there is no penalty to using an assault suit over any of the others, it seems fair its bonus potentially comes at price.
As for the heat weapons, isn't that in the weapon skill tree already, under the proficiency bonus?
If not then, then it would make sense to add it into the skill tree, I'll give you that.
That's because ssault suits have no real built-in weaknesses, but they don't particularly excel at anything either. If they don't have a big strength (like 3 equipment slots, or a heavy weapon slot), they don't really need a weakness. No but they have a large array of slots, a light weapon and a sidearm, not to mention an equipment slot. They litterally have all the good points none of the bad. Giving all Assaults the Minnie bonus would overpower them. A rate of fire increase improves the assault's ability to shoot from cover, it gives the Assault the ability to Assault a fortified position better. The only real negative it comes with is if you use a boltshot weapon, which is designed to slow firing. Weather or not the damage mod bonus would be OP for all assaults, or a double-edged bonus is a good idea, the new assault bonus unfairly excludes the SCR, one of the 4 main assault weapons of the game. There were other bonuses that could have been used that would be more inclusive. It doesn't exclude the AScR and I would like to point out the standard ScR is mainly a skillshot kinda weapon, there are few bonuses that wouldn't be overpowered. The only 2 that come to mind are magazine size (also kinda pointless) and spare ammo (pointless in a squad).
Amarr weaponry is meant for mid-range much more than long-range (long range is the Caldari rail weapons' domain). At mid-range you can still easily get killed because of overheat.
A 5% per level light weapon fitting bonus would have been sufficient. The ROF bonus actively discourages using a SCR with an assault because you know you know another weapon would benefit much more; this should never happen with one of the 4 main assault weapons, skill-shot or not.
The heat reduction bonus of the Amarr assault was not OP, it was effectively the same as a magazine increase that allows you to fire a handful of more shots. Even when maxed out you still could not even get close to emptying out the magazine without overheating.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1489
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Posted - 2014.01.08 00:44:00 -
[49] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
That's because ssault suits have no real built-in weaknesses, but they don't particularly excel at anything either. If they don't have a big strength (like 3 equipment slots, or a heavy weapon slot), they don't really need a weakness.
No but they have a large array of slots, a light weapon and a sidearm, not to mention an equipment slot. They litterally have all the good points none of the bad. Giving all Assaults the Minnie bonus would overpower them. A rate of fire increase improves the assault's ability to shoot from cover, it gives the Assault the ability to Assault a fortified position better. The only real negative it comes with is if you use a boltshot weapon, which is designed to slow firing. Weather or not the damage mod bonus would be OP for all assaults, or a double-edged bonus is a good idea, the new assault bonus unfairly excludes the SCR, one of the 4 main assault weapons of the game. There were other bonuses that could have been used that would be more inclusive. It doesn't exclude the AScR and I would like to point out the standard ScR is mainly a skillshot kinda weapon, there are few bonuses that wouldn't be overpowered. The only 2 that come to mind are magazine size (also kinda pointless) and spare ammo (pointless in a squad). Amarr weaponry is meant for mid-range much more than long-range (long range is the Caldari rail weapons' domain). At mid-range you can still easily get killed because of overheat. A 5% per level light weapon fitting bonus would have been sufficient. The ROF bonus actively discourages using a SCR with an assault because you know you know another weapon would benefit much more; this should never happen with one of the 4 main assault weapons, skill-shot or not. The heat reduction bonus of the Amarr assault was not OP, it was effectively the same as a magazine increase that allows you to fire a handful of more shots. Even when maxed out you still could not even get close to emptying out the magazine without overheating.
Im already upto my eyeballs in light weapon fitting bonuses. Adding another one is near pointless and doesn't help differentiate the Assault from other classes. In addition it helps out your weapon more than the others because of its higher fitting costs.
If yoy can find a better bonus fine, but you will have a hard job.
I didn't say the heat reduction bonus was OP, I said it was a bad design choice, because it penalised you for not using a heat based weapon. Personally I believed the ScR should have had a hard cap on the fire rate. Finally you are only speculating that the bonus has not benifit to the ScR until you test you don't know.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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CLONE117
planetary retaliation organisation
560
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Posted - 2014.01.08 00:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
i would rather have. a bigger clipsize.. or faster reload instead of this bonus... or larger ammo capacity... |
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
224
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Posted - 2014.01.08 00:53:00 -
[51] - Quote
Remove the damage mods
War never changes
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7893
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Posted - 2014.01.08 01:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:[quote=Monkey MAC]
Weather or not the damage mod bonus would be OP for all assaults, or a double-edged bonus is a good idea, the new assault bonus unfairly excludes the SCR, one of the 4 main assault weapons of the game. There were other bonuses that could have been used that would be more inclusive. It doesn't exclude the AScR and I would like to point out the standard ScR is mainly a skillshot kinda weapon, there are few bonuses that wouldn't be overpowered. The only 2 that come to mind are magazine size (also kinda pointless) and spare ammo (pointless in a squad). Amarr weaponry is meant for mid-range much more than long-range (long range is the Caldari rail weapons' domain). At mid-range you can still easily get killed because of overheat. A 5% per level light weapon fitting bonus would have been sufficient. The ROF bonus actively discourages using a SCR with an assault because you know you know another weapon would benefit much more; this should never happen with one of the 4 main assault weapons, skill-shot or not. The heat reduction bonus of the Amarr assault was not OP, it was effectively the same as a magazine increase that allows you to fire a handful of more shots. Even when maxed out you still could not even get close to emptying out the magazine without overheating. Im already upto my eyeballs in light weapon fitting bonuses. Adding another one is near pointless and doesn't help differentiate the Assault from other classes. In addition it helps out your weapon more than the others because of its higher fitting costs. If yoy can find a better bonus fine, but you will have a hard job. I didn't say the heat reduction bonus was OP, I said it was a bad design choice, because it penalised you for not using a heat based weapon. Personally I believed the ScR should have had a hard cap on the fire rate. Finally you are only speculating that the bonus has not benifit to the ScR until you test you don't know.
I would rather have a fair general bonus (that's also practical), then a bonus then an unfair one that differentiates. They could have differentiated the assault role with racial bonuses, but instead they chose to go with HP and rep bonuses.
Damage mod fitting bonus. Doesn't give you a free DPS buff (so not OP), just makes it easier to increase your DPS with a module at the cost of your PG/CPU and a high slot.
You say you don't want to be penalized for not using the SCR, well now it penalizes you for using a SCR no matter what assault suit you use. Not sure how you can support this new bonus when the same issue of unfair penalizing is still there.
Unless you're using a modded controller, I know it won't effect the regular SCR. The weapon fires as fast as you can hit the trigger, so unless its suddenly an automatic weapon, I don't see how ROF would possibly help.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1491
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Posted - 2014.01.08 01:05:00 -
[53] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
It doesn't exclude the AScR and I would like to point out the standard ScR is mainly a skillshot kinda weapon, there are few bonuses that wouldn't be overpowered. The only 2 that come to mind are magazine size (also kinda pointless) and spare ammo (pointless in a squad).
Amarr weaponry is meant for mid-range much more than long-range (long range is the Caldari rail weapons' domain). At mid-range you can still easily get killed because of overheat. A 5% per level light weapon fitting bonus would have been sufficient. The ROF bonus actively discourages using a SCR with an assault because you know you know another weapon would benefit much more; this should never happen with one of the 4 main assault weapons, skill-shot or not. The heat reduction bonus of the Amarr assault was not OP, it was effectively the same as a magazine increase that allows you to fire a handful of more shots. Even when maxed out you still could not even get close to emptying out the magazine without overheating. Im already upto my eyeballs in light weapon fitting bonuses. Adding another one is near pointless and doesn't help differentiate the Assault from other classes. In addition it helps out your weapon more than the others because of its higher fitting costs. If yoy can find a better bonus fine, but you will have a hard job. I didn't say the heat reduction bonus was OP, I said it was a bad design choice, because it penalised you for not using a heat based weapon. Personally I believed the ScR should have had a hard cap on the fire rate. Finally you are only speculating that the bonus has not benifit to the ScR until you test you don't know. I would rather have a fair general bonus (that's also practical), then a bonus then an unfair one that differentiates. They could have differentiated the assault role with racial bonuses, but instead they chose to go with HP and rep bonuses. Damage mod fitting bonus. Doesn't give you a free DPS buff (so not OP), just makes it easier to increase your DPS with a module at the cost of your PG/CPU and a high slot. You say you don't want to be penalized for not using the SCR, well now it penalizes you for using a SCR no matter what assault suit you use. Not sure how you can support this new bonus when the same issue of unfair penalizing is still there. Unless you're using a modded controller, I know it won't effect the regular SCR. The weapon fires as fast as you can hit the trigger, so unless its suddenly an automatic weapon, I don't see how ROF would possibly help.
I'm not saying its perfect but, to me it's the best option.
The damage mod proficency will be as OP as hell, trust me on that one.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7893
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Posted - 2014.01.08 01:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
Amarr weaponry is meant for mid-range much more than long-range (long range is the Caldari rail weapons' domain). At mid-range you can still easily get killed because of overheat.
A 5% per level light weapon fitting bonus would have been sufficient. The ROF bonus actively discourages using a SCR with an assault because you know you know another weapon would benefit much more; this should never happen with one of the 4 main assault weapons, skill-shot or not.
The heat reduction bonus of the Amarr assault was not OP, it was effectively the same as a magazine increase that allows you to fire a handful of more shots. Even when maxed out you still could not even get close to emptying out the magazine without overheating.
Im already upto my eyeballs in light weapon fitting bonuses. Adding another one is near pointless and doesn't help differentiate the Assault from other classes. In addition it helps out your weapon more than the others because of its higher fitting costs. If yoy can find a better bonus fine, but you will have a hard job. I didn't say the heat reduction bonus was OP, I said it was a bad design choice, because it penalised you for not using a heat based weapon. Personally I believed the ScR should have had a hard cap on the fire rate. Finally you are only speculating that the bonus has not benifit to the ScR until you test you don't know. I would rather have a fair general bonus (that's also practical), then a bonus then an unfair one that differentiates. They could have differentiated the assault role with racial bonuses, but instead they chose to go with HP and rep bonuses. Damage mod fitting bonus. Doesn't give you a free DPS buff (so not OP), just makes it easier to increase your DPS with a module at the cost of your PG/CPU and a high slot. You say you don't want to be penalized for not using the SCR, well now it penalizes you for using a SCR no matter what assault suit you use. Not sure how you can support this new bonus when the same issue of unfair penalizing is still there. Unless you're using a modded controller, I know it won't effect the regular SCR. The weapon fires as fast as you can hit the trigger, so unless its suddenly an automatic weapon, I don't see how ROF would possibly help. I'm not saying its perfect but, to me it's the best option. The damage mod proficency will be as OP as hell, trust me on that one.
I said fitting bonus this time for the damage mods, not a prof bonus.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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MINA Longstrike
2Shitz 1Giggle
198
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Posted - 2014.01.08 02:01:00 -
[55] - Quote
I think the 'generic' bonus should be to damage mod efficiency or fitting cost and the non-generic pertain to racial profiles - like laser heat buildup or more ammo carried on projectiles/explosives for minmatar (more mass driver rounds + smg rounds) or shield/armor hp for cal/gal. RoF bonuses don't affect every weapon equally. |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
592
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Posted - 2014.01.08 02:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
I'm honestly against damage and Fire-rate increases, this game doesn't need to decrease TTK anymore. I'm all for increased Clip-size as a generic bonus. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7906
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Posted - 2014.01.08 07:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
I fear for the SCR
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Talos Alomar
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1940
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Posted - 2014.01.08 07:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Yes I know they aren't final Neither were the armor plate buffs. Based on past actions (or lack of), I'd say the new bonuses are already written in stone.
Remember the time we found out the stats for reactive and ferroscale plates before they were released?
And they in essence told us to go **** ourselves when we told them they were drastically undepowered by saying the stats weren't final and then changing absolutely nothing?
I can't help but get the feeling that history is going to repeat itself and we're going to have a bunch of minmatar assaults running around with RRs that demolish everything in a half second.
Try to kill it all you want CCP, I still <3 my laser.
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KenKaniff69
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
1797
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 07:33:00 -
[59] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Yes I know they aren't final Neither were the armor plate buffs. Based on past actions (or lack of), I'd say the new bonuses are already written in stone. Remember the time we found out the stats for reactive and ferroscale plates before they were released? And they in essence told us to go **** ourselves when we told them they were drastically undepowered by saying the stats weren't final and then changing absolutely nothing? I can't help but get the feeling that history is going to repeat itself and we're going to have a bunch of minmatar assaults running around with RRs that demolish everything in a half second.
Well, it will take them a while to chew through the 700 cladari shields or 800 gallente armor on comparative assault suits.
So about those vehicle locks...
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ell armana
Nyain San
Renegade Alliance
27
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Posted - 2014.01.09 04:24:00 -
[60] - Quote
CCP!!!
If the repair rate rise Amar assault suit bonus
It is necessary to decrease the heating bonus scrambler rifle operation per lv 5%!
There is no need for repair rate rise bonus to Amar assault suit!
All you need's a fever reduction bonus!
npÇÇepÇÇepÇÇdpÇÇ'pÇÇspÇÇ a pÇÇfpÇÇepÇÇvpÇÇepÇÇr pÇÇrpÇÇepÇÇdpÇÇupÇÇcpÇÇtpÇÇipÇÇopÇÇnpÇÇ bpÇÇopÇÇnpÇÇupÇÇspÇÇ!!!!!
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1059
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Posted - 2014.01.09 11:09:00 -
[61] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Not sure. I kind of think they should both be race-specific. One should be defensive (Amarr/Gallente get armor, Minmatar/Caldari get shield) and the other offensive and linked to their race's weapons. I'd like to see a focus on racial suit/weapon synergy. It will make the game much more interesting and tactical. It doesn't work that way
It does in EVE and it should in Dust 514.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7932
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Posted - 2014.01.09 16:26:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Not sure. I kind of think they should both be race-specific. One should be defensive (Amarr/Gallente get armor, Minmatar/Caldari get shield) and the other offensive and linked to their race's weapons. I'd like to see a focus on racial suit/weapon synergy. It will make the game much more interesting and tactical. It doesn't work that way It does in EVE and it should in Dust 514.
Just because they share the same universe and are connected doesn't mean they should share every little thing.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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