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Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 1842	Posted - 2014.01.07 18:36:00 - [1] - Quote Do the right thing ccp. My speed hack Logi has been completely nullified. Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 961	Posted - 2014.01.07 18:40:00 - [2] - Quote So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 332	Posted - 2014.01.07 18:46:00 - [3] - Quote Disagree, all standard level infantry and vehicle racial variants need to exist first. Give that a final respec and move forward from there barring any large rework of skills.
Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 1843	Posted - 2014.01.07 18:51:00 - [4] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. No. Ccp needs to do respecs like they did for vehicles. I didn't drop over 2 mil sp so I can baby sit heavies. Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 962	Posted - 2014.01.07 18:52:00 - [5] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: Disagree, all standard level infantry and vehicle racial variants need to exist first. Give that a final respec and move forward from there barring any large rework of skills. How many times have the bonuses of EVE ships been completely reworked in the last two years with no respec given? I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1010	Posted - 2014.01.07 18:53:00 - [6] - Quote SP cost for dropsuits are apparently being changed, to make things easier to spec in to. This would definately mean a SP refund. Just like CCP does in EVE online. Doesnt matter in Dust 514: PC. FW Standing. Tanking Type. Other mods than DMG or HP. Does matter in Dust 514: Rifles.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1010	Posted - 2014.01.07 18:54:00 - [7] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: Disagree, all standard level infantry and vehicle racial variants need to exist first. Give that a final respec and move forward from there barring any large rework of skills. How many times have the bonuses of EVE ships been completely reworked in the last two years with no respec given? The difference is that you get access to like 10 ships directly from the faction frigate skill. Doesnt matter in Dust 514: PC. FW Standing. Tanking Type. Other mods than DMG or HP. Does matter in Dust 514: Rifles.
Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 1843	Posted - 2014.01.07 18:54:00 - [8] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: Disagree, all standard level infantry and vehicle racial variants need to exist first. Give that a final respec and move forward from there barring any large rework of skills. How many times have the bonuses of EVE ships been completely reworked in the last two years with no respec given? And how much sp is grounded in eve? 0. Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 962	Posted - 2014.01.07 18:54:00 - [9] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: SP cost for dropsuits are apparently being changed, to make things easier to spec in to. This would definately mean a SP refund. Just like CCP does in EVE online. When that's done in EVE, it's a partial refund. They refund the difference in points that were no longer needed to gain that skill level. The skill is not refunded. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Onesimus Tarsus 757	Posted - 2014.01.07 18:57:00 - [10] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: Disagree, all standard level infantry and vehicle racial variants need to exist first. Give that a final respec and move forward from there barring any large rework of skills. How many times have the bonuses of EVE ships been completely reworked in the last two years with no respec given? This ain't EvE. I got my hand around the pistol grip, and the safety's off.

BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1435	Posted - 2014.01.07 18:59:00 - [11] - Quote wat happened? Main - BobThe843CakeMan Ringing for PC for a price, msg for details. Prices are based on who ur facing and how i feel.
XxWarlordxX97 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 4137	Posted - 2014.01.07 18:59:00 - [12] - Quote Give us all full respecs CCP Level 5 forum warrior A Solo heavy Boss I.E. made me OP
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9723	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:00:00 - [13] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That is a terrible stance. Why force people to keep SP they would have never spent in the first place in light of sweeping changes and racial suits finally being added? How does letting someone enjoy the game their way detract from your enjoyment of the game? Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
pseudosnipre 473	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:01:00 - [14] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. No. Ccp needs to do respecs like they did for vehicles. I didn't drop over 2 mil sp so I can baby sit heavies. Unfortunately...you may have. But at least there will be more heavy frames to babysit! Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
Onesimus Tarsus 757	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:06:00 - [15] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That is a terrible stance. Why force people to keep SP they would have never spent in the first place in light of sweeping changes and racial suits finally being added? How does letting someone enjoy the game their way detract from your enjoyment of the game? I understand completely. The norespecors act as if you're taking their SP away, or that they'll be able to tell new protos from the old protos. Full respecs on demand for free would fun this game up, and no one would know except the people having the fun respeccing. Why anyone would care what you do with your own SP is beyond me. I got my hand around the pistol grip, and the safety's off.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 962	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:08:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That is a terrible stance. Why force people to keep SP they would have never spent in the first place in light of sweeping changes and racial suits finally being added? Things are ALWAYS being added, it's an online game. If CCP doesn't set the line here, they won't set it at the next rebalance, or the one after that. DUST Fiend wrote: How does letting someone enjoy the game their way detract from your enjoyment of the game? Fit of the month play drastically trashes the play experience in this game. Getting to respec your points all the time encourages and rewards that style of behavior. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 237	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:11:00 - [17] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec because I have more sp than everybody. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits in 5 months. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. Fixed loads of retardation I use a tablet so beware of typos
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 962	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:13:00 - [18] - Quote Most of the people crying for respecs already have 30+ mil SP, lol. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6294	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:14:00 - [19] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: Disagree, all standard level infantry and vehicle racial variants need to exist first. Give that a final respec and move forward from there barring any large rework of skills. How many times have the bonuses of EVE ships been completely reworked in the last two years with no respec given? This ain't EvE. In terms of Dust being a first-person shooter, you are correct. But this game has a lot of things built into it that screams "THIS IS EVE". Let me elaborate. 1. The title. Look at the introduction video when you turn on the game. What do you see above the word "Dust 514"? EVE. What do you see on the top left corner of this very forum page that you are reading? EVE/DUST 514 2. The Eve-Dust connection. Still needs more work, but it's getting there and the connection has more love recently with the revamp to FW. 3. The culture. Both games are operating under the cultural rules and norms of New Eden. 4. The fitting menu. Of course, some things in Eve don't always work well in Dust while some things in Eve do work well in Dust. But that's more about game mechanics than actual respects. Ok, now let's get back on topic. Overall, I have to agree with Sigberct in that there should be full respecs ONLY under the condition that ALL racial variants of weapons, vehicles, and suits are introduced all at once. Alternatively, CCP can do partial respecs whenever they focus on one aspect of the game at a time such as vehicle respecs for 1.7 and possibly suit respecs for 1.8, etc. This to me is acceptable. Honestly when it comes to respecs, I like it better if CCP were to adopt Eve Online's Neural Remap system. If you don't know what that is, here is a summary of how it works. Neural Remap System https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Neural_remap As you can see, this is pretty fair but it's nothing like the respec system you know since SP is not really moved around but rather attribute points that affect the speed of learning a certain type of skill book. This has worked well so far for Eve Online for at least the past 3 or so years with no problems. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9725	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:14:00 - [20] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That is a terrible stance. Why force people to keep SP they would have never spent in the first place in light of sweeping changes and racial suits finally being added? Things are ALWAYS being added, it's an online game. If CCP doesn't set the line here, they won't set it at the next rebalance, or the one after that. DUST Fiend wrote: How does letting someone enjoy the game their way detract from your enjoyment of the game? Fit of the month play drastically trashes the play experience in this game. Getting to respec your points all the time encourages and rewards that style of behavior. But we're talking about basic, foundation level stuff. You can't seriously come from EVE and then tell me that Gallente heavies are 'new' material. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1012	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:15:00 - [21] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: SP cost for dropsuits are apparently being changed, to make things easier to spec in to. This would definately mean a SP refund. Just like CCP does in EVE online. When that's done in EVE, it's a partial refund. They refund the difference in points that were no longer needed to gain that skill level. The skill is not refunded. True, true. Doesnt matter in Dust 514: PC. FW Standing. Tanking Type. Other mods than DMG or HP. Does matter in Dust 514: Rifles.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 237	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:16:00 - [22] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Most of the people crying for respecs already have 30+ mil SP, lol. I have 14 mil sp, I need it I use a tablet so beware of typos
The Attorney General 1731	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:17:00 - [23] - Quote It seems likely that they will refund either: A) Dropsuit Command Skill tree B) Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, Weaponry C) Deploy it, then make every one wait for the Scout suits for option B. I would bet on B, but CCP will probably go with C and watch people froth at the mouth. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 963	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:20:00 - [24] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: But we're talking about basic, foundation level stuff. You can't seriously come from EVE and then tell me that Gallente heavies are 'new' material. This isn't basic foundation level stuff. This is if you want to change up your bonus from the one on the suit you already have, you can play some, get more points, and unlock a new suit. The whole point of constantly accruing skillpoints is your ability to expand from a single fit out into additional ones. The ability to unlock that flexibility over time is the only reason you need more than like 10 mil SP. If you're just handing out respecs, veteran players have no reason to actually play, because they can just reset their skills every so often to unlock the new fit of the month suit. There was also no respec, notably, when the rail rifle and combat rifle were released. Every time there's a new suit or new gear there should not be respecs. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 334	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:22:00 - [25] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: Disagree, all standard level infantry and vehicle racial variants need to exist first. Give that a final respec and move forward from there barring any large rework of skills. How many times have the bonuses of EVE ships been completely reworked in the last two years with no respec given? 1) Eve doesn't sell boosters to monetize it's SP 2) Eve has attributes that vary skill training time and offers free respecs to that 3) Eve gives far more access to ships per skill than dust's dropsuits per skill 4) Eve has all of it's basic ships in each racial variant in the game right now edit: point out where someone in this thread wants this: Soraya Xel wrote: If you're just handing out respecs, veteran players have no reason to actually play, because they can just reset their skills every so often to unlock the new fit of the month suit. I agree with you on the point that this is wrong but I haven't seen anyone seriously suggest this is a good thing.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9726	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:26:00 - [26] - Quote Thankfully CCP has already showed that they're willing to offer respecs when they drastically change things up, and plenty of us can see that racial suits are about as basic as basic gets, so I'm gonna put my money on some kind of respec coming. The only people that usually whine about respecs are those who think they'll cause their PS3's to explode into fireballs. Some form of respec is coming, you can argue against it till you're blue in the face, but CCP has shown time and time again that they're willing to do what's right for their player base, which makes me feel better knowing that I will be given the opportunity to make an informed decision with my SP in light of basic material finally finding its way into the game. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 333	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:27:00 - [27] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: SP cost for dropsuits are apparently being changed, to make things easier to spec in to. This would definately mean a SP refund. Just like CCP does in EVE online. Or they just refund the difference like they did last time. No full respecs, just DS respecs if anything at all. Electronic Warfare GOD in the making
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2490	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:28:00 - [28] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: Disagree, all standard level infantry and vehicle racial variants need to exist first. Give that a final respec and move forward from there barring any large rework of skills. How many times have the bonuses of EVE ships been completely reworked in the last two years with no respec given? They've refunded skills in certain areas after major changes plenty of times. Or at least reworked the skills. But the major difference is that Dust doesn't have all the racial suits released yet. When they are all released they should give a respec. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 965	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:29:00 - [29] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: 1) Eve doesn't sell boosters to monetize it's SP 2) Eve has attributes that vary skill training time and offers free respecs to that 3) Eve gives far more access to ships per skill than dust's dropsuits per skill 4) Eve has all of it's basic ships in each racial variant in the game right now. 1) All the more reason CCP has to encourage people to get more SP rather than reallocating what they have. Somewhere along the way, we do need people to actually pay for this game. 2) They don't have a lot of relevance, and aren't intended to be permanent. They're also probably being removed because they're dumb. 3) Not really, no. Not when you consider all the complimentary skills each ship requires to be useful. 4) Race means nothing. Sometimes EVE adds new ships, sometimes DUST adds new dropships. "Race parity" is a pretty silly argument, in practical terms. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9728	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:30:00 - [30] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: 4) Race means nothing. Sometimes EVE adds new ships, sometimes DUST adds new dropships. "Race parity" is a pretty silly argument, in practical terms. This right here just shows that you have no idea what you're talking about. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict

Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 965	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:31:00 - [31] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: They've refunded skills in certain areas after major changes plenty of times. Or at least reworked the skills. But the major difference is that Dust doesn't have all the racial suits released yet. When they are all released they should give a respec. I've heavily disagreed with most of those respecs. There was one skill rework that warranted a full refund. But now they've set an extremely unhealthy trend of causing players to expect a refund every time their suit changes, which shouldn't be happening. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 82	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:32:00 - [32] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. I wanted to play an infiltrator logi and now I have to spend another 2-3 million sp to be able to play that role because they completely changed the purpose of my suit. I have put up with lots of skill tree changes and not demanded a respec, but this has gone too far for me.
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 335	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:34:00 - [33] - Quote I really hope there is no respec whatsoever just to spite the whiners. Electronic Warfare GOD in the making
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9728	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:36:00 - [34] - Quote THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: I really hope there is no respec whatsoever just to spite the whiners. Keep hoping Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 965	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:36:00 - [35] - Quote Thang Bausch wrote: That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. I wanted to play an infiltrator logi and now I have to spend another 2-3 million sp to be able to play that role because they completely changed the purpose of my suit. I have put up with lots of skill tree changes and not demanded a respec, but this has gone too far for me. Do you think this is a one time thing? This is an online game, as new suits are added, balance passes are made, these features will shift and change constantly. Get used to it. And you don't need a respec every time. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 335	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:38:00 - [36] - Quote Thang Bausch wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. This right here is called expectation management, Soraya. Follow along carefully. A player buys aurum and spends aurum on boosters. Those boosters give him SP which is used to purchase skills he finds valuable. CCP comes along and makes those skills less valuable or makes other skills more valuable. Now that player feels cheated out of his money. You honestly believe he should just HTFU or do you believe he will keep spending anyways? Nope. That's not how this works. CCP tied money to SP and they now have an expectation to keep that SP valuable. They don't have to do anything, but their choice does effect future purchases. Like mine. I quit spending money after BPO fuckery began. These potential changes aren't exactly making me crack open my wallet any time soon either.
Aero Yassavi Yassavi House 4356	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:40:00 - [37] - Quote Maybe not a full respec, but at the least an infantry respec. Most people saying "no" to respecs are just scared that more players will be able to specialize into good prototype fits and give them a challenge in pub matches. It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Super Amarr!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6296	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:43:00 - [38] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Every time there's a new suit or new gear there should not be respecs. If by "new suit/gear" you mean something like a Covert Ops scout suit or maybe a pilot suit, then yeah I can understand your point. But we're talking about core content here such as Amarr Scout, Gallente Scout, Caldari Scout, Minmatar Scout, Amarr Heavy, Gallente Heavy, Caldari Heavy, Minmatar Heavy, etc. etc. etc. If CCP implements all such core suits at once then there will need to be a respec of the suits because the Gallente, Minmatar, and Caldari Heavies (for example) were not readily available and thus many heavy players (most of which are not really fans of the Amarr) were forced to train into Amarr Heavy suits. Now, if CCP were to introduce something like the pilot suits or Commander (not Commando) suits or maybe Covert Ops suits or perhaps pirate faction suits like the Sansha Nation or Dread Guristas that sometimes require two different racial skills to use (ie: the Dramiel in Eve), then I will agree with you that there should be NO respecs given out for those as they are technically NOT core content. Another example of this is in Eve Online. Believe it or not, Eve Online did get one free respect shortly after commercial release back in 2003 according to the closed-beta veterans who were there. But that was a one-time thing to address the introduction of the remaining CORE content and since then there have been no respecs (at least the full ones). Over the following years, ships like the Orca, Rorqual, Nyx, Erebus, Moros, Revelation, etc. were introduced but no respecs were given because technically they were not CORE content. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 965	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:44:00 - [39] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: This right here is called expectation management, Soraya. Follow along carefully. A player buys aurum and spends aurum on boosters. Those boosters give him SP which is used to purchase skills he finds valuable. CCP comes along and makes those skills less valuable or makes other skills more valuable. So you're advocating a full respec every month? For every nerf, a respec? Because every nerf makes skill points in something less valuable. CCP definitely broke it's expectation management with you. :/ Aero Yassavi wrote: Most people saying "no" to respecs are just scared that more players will be able to specialize into good prototype fits and give them a challenge in pub matches. Nope. A lot of people saying they want respecs are the protostompers, because they want to continue to dominant lower SP players, without having to actually gain any more SP themselves. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 82	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:47:00 - [40] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: 1) Eve doesn't sell boosters to monetize it's SP 2) Eve has attributes that vary skill training time and offers free respecs to that 3) Eve gives far more access to ships per skill than dust's dropsuits per skill 4) Eve has all of it's basic ships in each racial variant in the game right now. 1) All the more reason CCP has to encourage people to get more SP rather than reallocating what they have. Somewhere along the way, we do need people to actually pay for this game. But I've already put 120 (150 if you count the package that came with my ps3 ultra slim) into this game in 6 months. It's a slimmy and unethical business model to make your money off of boosters and then keep drastically changing the skill tree so you have to infinitely buy boosters. It's just down right dishonest and deceptive. If CCP needs to be making $20 a month from me, then charge me $20 a month to play. Only then does the 'keep playing to get more sp' argument make sense. This is the only free to play game I play now because the free to play model is always designed to DECEPTIVELY make waaaaay more money than the game deserves. I have gotten much more enjoyment from games like Fallout New Vegas and Skyrim then this crappy beta game and those games cost me 30 and 40 respectively (both on sale at bestbuy) and are (minus infamous bethesda bugginess) much, much more polished than this game. I would consider paying 9.99 a month to play this game, but no more. Change the business model to a more ethical one and maybe there will be less reason for people to demand respecs.

Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 82	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:50:00 - [41] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thang Bausch wrote: That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. I wanted to play an infiltrator logi and now I have to spend another 2-3 million sp to be able to play that role because they completely changed the purpose of my suit. I have put up with lots of skill tree changes and not demanded a respec, but this has gone too far for me. Do you think this is a one time thing? This is an online game, as new suits are added, balance passes are made, these features will shift and change constantly. Get used to it. And you don't need a respec every time. Then they need to change the business model to a monthly subscription. Right now the business model is dependent on them constantly changing the skill tree so everyone has to constantly buy boosters to get where they need to be.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 968	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:52:00 - [42] - Quote Thang Bausch wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thang Bausch wrote: That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. I wanted to play an infiltrator logi and now I have to spend another 2-3 million sp to be able to play that role because they completely changed the purpose of my suit. I have put up with lots of skill tree changes and not demanded a respec, but this has gone too far for me. Do you think this is a one time thing? This is an online game, as new suits are added, balance passes are made, these features will shift and change constantly. Get used to it. And you don't need a respec every time. Then they need to change the business model to a monthly subscription. Right now the business model is dependent on them constantly changing the skill tree so everyone has to constantly buy boosters to get where they need to be. 1. Monthly subscription games are dying. 2. Online games always do buffs and nerfs, it's not going to stop either. Let me put it this way, I bought AUR solely to buy BPOs. Some of those BPOs have now been removed from my inventory, and I've been given the AUR back for them. Realistically, I bought that AUR for BPOs, which are now gone. If you're entitled to a respec because CCP changed the game, I'm entitled to a check. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 338	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:52:00 - [43] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: So you're advocating a full respec every month? For every nerf, a respec? Because every nerf makes skill points in something less valuable. CCP definitely broke it's expectation management with you. :/ Now you're being deliberately disingenious. I said this already: Sigberct Amni wrote: Disagree, all standard level infantry and vehicle racial variants need to exist first. Give that a final respec and move forward from there barring any large rework of skills.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 968	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:54:00 - [44] - Quote Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 82	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:54:00 - [45] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: Thang Bausch wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. This right here is called expectation management, Soraya. Follow along carefully. A player buys aurum and spends aurum on boosters. Those boosters give him SP which is used to purchase skills he finds valuable. CCP comes along and makes those skills less valuable or makes other skills more valuable. Now that player feels cheated out of his money. You honestly believe he should just HTFU or do you believe he will keep spending anyways? Nope. That's not how this works. CCP tied money to SP and they now have an expectation to keep that SP valuable. They don't have to do anything, but their choice does effect future purchases. Like mine. I quit spending money after BPO fuckery began. These potential changes aren't exactly making me crack open my wallet any time soon either. Very well said. You can't monetize sp and then try to devalue it with each release.
Aero Yassavi Yassavi House 4358	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:54:00 - [46] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Most people saying "no" to respecs are just scared that more players will be able to specialize into good prototype fits and give them a challenge in pub matches. Nope. A lot of people saying they want respecs are the protostompers, because they want to continue to dominant lower SP players, without having to actually gain any more SP themselves. Nice try to twist it around, but nope. Actually, most people who want respecs actually are just upset that all the racial core content wasn't available from the start. There were people saying no vehicle respec when the vehicle changes got announced. I mean, the people who say "no respecs" are just hellbent on it and ignore all logic. It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Super Amarr!
XxWarlordxX97 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 4138	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:54:00 - [47] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Most of the people crying for respecs already have 30+ mil SP, lol. I want a respec Level 5 forum warrior A Solo heavy Boss I.E. made me OP
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 338	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:56:00 - [48] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. Sorry, they aren't just variations. The difference between racial logi suits for example is huge. Bonus to fitted equipment pg/cpu on gal logi vrs. bonus to hacking speed on min logi? Completely different game play style for the two suits.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 969	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:59:00 - [49] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. Sorry, they aren't just variations. The difference between racial logi suits for example is huge. Bonus to fitted equipment pg/cpu on gal logi vrs. bonus to hacking speed on min logi? Completely different game play style for the two suits. Nothing larger than the differences made in any given ship rebalance pass in EVE. Think about general cargo hauler ships that suddenly became ammo-only haulers. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Amarrgheddon Warcaste 49	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:00:00 - [50] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: Thang Bausch wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. This right here is called expectation management, Soraya. Follow along carefully. A player buys aurum and spends aurum on boosters. Those boosters give him SP which is used to purchase skills he finds valuable. CCP comes along and makes those skills less valuable or makes other skills more valuable. Now that player feels cheated out of his money. You honestly believe he should just HTFU or do you believe he will keep spending anyways? Nope. That's not how this works. CCP tied money to SP and they now have an expectation to keep that SP valuable. They don't have to do anything, but their choice does effect future purchases. Like mine. I quit spending money after BPO fuckery began. These potential changes aren't exactly making me crack open my wallet any time soon either. also done spending money.

Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 338	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:00:00 - [51] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. Sorry, they aren't just variations. The difference between racial logi suits for example is huge. Bonus to fitted equipment pg/cpu on gal logi vrs. bonus to hacking speed on min logi? Completely different game play style for the two suits. Nothing larger than the differences made in any given ship rebalance pass in EVE. Think about general cargo hauler ships that suddenly became ammo-only haulers. As pointed out already, this game is not eve online. Most importantly, eve online does not monetize it's SP so the comparison is apples to oranges.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 969	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:03:00 - [52] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: As pointed out already, this game is not eve online. Most importantly, eve online does not monetize it's SP so the comparison is apples to oranges. There is no substantiate difference between this patch and any other buff/nerf cycle, regarding how it affects SP in DUST 514. If you support a full respec for 1.8, you're gunning for a precedent for a respec for any other suit nerf to ever come. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9732	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:04:00 - [53] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. So why are you so upset if people get to play the variation they prefer? Why do you think that full racial representation isn't important in the EVE universe? Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3153	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:04:00 - [54] - Quote THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: SP cost for dropsuits are apparently being changed, to make things easier to spec in to. This would definately mean a SP refund. Just like CCP does in EVE online. Or they just refund the difference like they did last time. No full respecs, just DS respecs if anything at all. Yeah, no. The last respec for vehicles was a FULL refund that refunded all skills under the Turret Operation, Vehicle Command, and Vehicle Upgrades tree. It was a FULL Respec for pilots CoD -----> <----- WoT Please AR and Tank scrubs, go to your respective games. Leave DUST alone!
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 82	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:06:00 - [55] - Quote Let me clarify: I want a respec on my min-logi suit only (and only once they finish overhauling the racial suits). I had speced into the flaylock pistol and the swarm launcher and watched the former nerfed into uselessness (it was admittedly very OP, but the over nerfed it, rather than redesigning it) and the latter nerfed into questionable usefulness and did not demand a respec. Completely overhauling racial suits and in the process completely changing the purpose of my suit is way different than adjusting values on a weapon.
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 184	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:06:00 - [56] - Quote Atiim wrote: It was a FULL Respec for pilots A full respec means a full respec - ALL skills to 0. Otherwise it's a partial skill respec. Of course some people have a pretty specific definition of the word full...
The Attorney General 1731	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:07:00 - [57] - Quote Atiim wrote: Yeah, no. The last respec for vehicles was a FULL refund that refunded all skills under the Turret Operation, Vehicle Command, and Vehicle Upgrades tree. It was a FULL Respec for pilots Way to be a drama queen. Everyone had all their vehicle skills refunded. Just like everyone will get their dropsuit skills back most likely, and hopefully the dropsuit upgrades and weaponry trees as well. I really hope a bunch of people spec hard into tanks because they will regret it later. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 969	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:07:00 - [58] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. So why are you so upset if people get to play the variation they prefer? Why do you think that full racial representation isn't important in the EVE universe? Racial representation doesn't have a large impact on gameplay relevance (given that your race or who you fight for has no bearing on what gear you use), these are simply different variants of the heavy, logi, assault, scout suit types we've already had. It's not about people playing the variation they prefer, it's about people getting to change the variation they play frequently with no cost to doing so. It encourages the rampant spam of whatever the fit of the month is, and doesn't even require that one earn new SP to do it. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9732	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:08:00 - [59] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. So why are you so upset if people get to play the variation they prefer? Why do you think that full racial representation isn't important in the EVE universe? Racial representation doesn't have a large impact on gameplay relevance (given that your race or who you fight for has no bearing on what gear you use), these are simply different variants of the heavy, logi, assault, scout suit types we've already had. It's not about people playing the variation they prefer, it's about people getting to change the variation they play frequently with no cost to doing so. It encourages the rampant spam of whatever the fit of the month is, and doesn't even require that one earn new SP to do it. So I just started playing the game with my SP maxed out? I didn't work for that or spend $$ on that? Man, you just blew my mind. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7858	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:10:00 - [60] - Quote It seems pretty obvious that it will happen with all these suit additions and skill changes, but I guess I could be wrong. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3156	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:12:00 - [61] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Way to be a drama queen. Everyone had all their vehicle skills refunded. Just like everyone will get their dropsuit skills back most likely, and hopefully the dropsuit upgrades and weaponry trees as well. I really hope a bunch of people spec hard into tanks because they will regret it later. That's what I'm saying, everyone had all of the vehicle skills fully refunded. I probably could've worded that much better though. CoD -----> <----- WoT Please AR and Tank scrubs, go to your respective games. Leave DUST alone!
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 338	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:14:00 - [62] - Quote Yeah, this discussion is pretty moot. If sweeping changes to suits and suit skills are made, they will likely follow the same plan they did with vehicles users.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 971	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:16:00 - [63] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: It seems pretty obvious that it will happen with all these suit additions and skill changes, but I guess I could be wrong. Unfortunately. While I'm heavily opposed to it, I'm almost certain CCP will do it. Their so scared of losing more players that anyone who cries loud enough will probably get what they want. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
xSynnx x Requiem of Shadows 25	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:17:00 - [64] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: Disagree, all standard level infantry and vehicle racial variants need to exist first. Give that a final respec and move forward from there barring any large rework of skills. How many times have the bonuses of EVE ships been completely reworked in the last two years with no respec given? I'm sorry, do you play eve? Because the answer is once, and not in 2 years, in the last 9 years. Recently there is a rebalancing going on for ships that have been out for years and years. There is no flip flopping of a single ship getting changed and rechanged and changed back again. And on top of that, most changes are things like cap recharge, total cap, slot layouts, total HP etc. Not to Skill bonus'es. The few ships that got skill changes that i can think of off the top of my head are... Prophecy, Armageddon, Dominix, Cyclone... just a few examples, but the total of skill changes is very small.
Kaze Eyrou Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 419	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:19:00 - [65] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Do the right thing ccp. My speed hack Logi has been completely nullified. You mean all you did was hack and not LogiBro? Figures. // Support Logi / Logi Bro // Forge Gunner // @KazeEyrou
Kaze Eyrou Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 419	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:21:00 - [66] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That is a terrible stance. Why force people to keep SP they would have never spent in the first place in light of sweeping changes and racial suits finally being added? How does letting someone enjoy the game their way detract from your enjoyment of the game? What ever happened to saving that SP for when those things DID come out? // Support Logi / Logi Bro // Forge Gunner // @KazeEyrou
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9734	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:24:00 - [67] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That is a terrible stance. Why force people to keep SP they would have never spent in the first place in light of sweeping changes and racial suits finally being added? How does letting someone enjoy the game their way detract from your enjoyment of the game? What ever happened to saving that SP for when those things DID come out? Wanting to play as a heavy happened.... How is this so hard to understand...... Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 338	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:27:00 - [68] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Unfortunately. While I'm heavily opposed to it, I'm almost certain CCP will do it. Their so scared of losing more players that anyone who cries loud enough will probably get what they want. Even if it's a terrible idea [in my opinion]. That's more like it.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 238	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:28:00 - [69] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Kaze Eyrou wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That is a terrible stance. Why force people to keep SP they would have never spent in the first place in light of sweeping changes and racial suits finally being added? How does letting someone enjoy the game their way detract from your enjoyment of the game? What ever happened to saving that SP for when those things DID come out? Wanting to play as a heavy happened.... How is this so hard to understand...... Btw how were we supposed to know whe we got good heavies? I use a tablet so beware of typos
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 339	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:30:00 - [70] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Btw how were we supposed to know whe we got good heavies? You see, you weren't supposed to know that. You were supposed to just roll over and take the beating this whooooole time. No respecs into the new skills that are actually fun now either btw. /s

Kaze Eyrou Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 421	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:31:00 - [71] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Kaze Eyrou wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That is a terrible stance. Why force people to keep SP they would have never spent in the first place in light of sweeping changes and racial suits finally being added? How does letting someone enjoy the game their way detract from your enjoyment of the game? What ever happened to saving that SP for when those things DID come out? Wanting to play as a heavy happened.... How is this so hard to understand...... Btw how were we supposed to know whe we got good heavies? Well we were supposed to get a TEST ROOM..... glares at CCP // Support Logi / Logi Bro // Forge Gunner // @KazeEyrou
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1182	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:34:00 - [72] - Quote Haha there would be thousands of gal logis with rail rifles an a few loyal scouts, deal wit it SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 1855	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:53:00 - [73] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. Sorry, they aren't just variations. The difference between racial logi suits for example is huge. Bonus to fitted equipment pg/cpu on gal logi vrs. bonus to hacking speed on min logi? Completely different game play style for the two suits. Nothing larger than the differences made in any given ship rebalance pass in EVE. Think about general cargo hauler ships that suddenly became ammo-only haulers. That skill also unlocks all 3 to 5 hauler ships at level one. Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 1855	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:55:00 - [74] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Sigberct Amni wrote: As pointed out already, this game is not eve online. Most importantly, eve online does not monetize it's SP so the comparison is apples to oranges. There is no substantiate difference between this patch and any other buff/nerf cycle, regarding how it affects SP in DUST 514. If you support a full respec for 1.8, you're gunning for a precedent for a respec for any other suit nerf to ever come. It's not a nerf or a balance it's a complete change in the role of the suit. Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Bum- Bum Squad of Drunken Monkies 0	Posted - 2014.01.08 03:49:00 - [75] - Quote I had to stop playing just before the private beta public release and just recently started playing again. So I had already accumulated a whole lot of sp.So it has been a long time since I have got a chance to play again, and would have continued playing if i had been granted a recpec. Was not expecting teo get refused. This was my favorite game but with all the changes that have happened since i have been on, and being refused a respec they have lost my business. Without a recpec of my guys this game is no longer enjoyable., I did not want to start a new character, I shouldn't have to. Every RPG i have ever played always let people respc, either once then had to wait certain time period or for a cost of some kind.


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