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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
965
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:They've refunded skills in certain areas after major changes plenty of times. Or at least reworked the skills.
But the major difference is that Dust doesn't have all the racial suits released yet. When they are all released they should give a respec.
I've heavily disagreed with most of those respecs. There was one skill rework that warranted a full refund. But now they've set an extremely unhealthy trend of causing players to expect a refund every time their suit changes, which shouldn't be happening.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Thang Bausch
Pierrot Le Fou Industries
82
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands.
That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. I wanted to play an infiltrator logi and now I have to spend another 2-3 million sp to be able to play that role because they completely changed the purpose of my suit. I have put up with lots of skill tree changes and not demanded a respec, but this has gone too far for me.
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THE GREY CARDINAL
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY
335
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
I really hope there is no respec whatsoever just to spite the whiners.
Electronic Warfare GOD in the making
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
9728
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:36:00 -
[34] - Quote
THE GREY CARDINAL wrote:I really hope there is no respec whatsoever just to spite the whiners. Keep hoping
Assault Dropship Montage
Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
965
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
Thang Bausch wrote:That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. I wanted to play an infiltrator logi and now I have to spend another 2-3 million sp to be able to play that role because they completely changed the purpose of my suit. I have put up with lots of skill tree changes and not demanded a respec, but this has gone too far for me.
Do you think this is a one time thing? This is an online game, as new suits are added, balance passes are made, these features will shift and change constantly. Get used to it. And you don't need a respec every time.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
335
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
Thang Bausch wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. This right here is called expectation management, Soraya. Follow along carefully. A player buys aurum and spends aurum on boosters. Those boosters give him SP which is used to purchase skills he finds valuable. CCP comes along and makes those skills less valuable or makes other skills more valuable.
Now that player feels cheated out of his money. You honestly believe he should just HTFU or do you believe he will keep spending anyways? Nope. That's not how this works. CCP tied money to SP and they now have an expectation to keep that SP valuable. They don't have to do anything, but their choice does effect future purchases.
Like mine. I quit spending money after BPO fuckery began. These potential changes aren't exactly making me crack open my wallet any time soon either. |
Aero Yassavi
Yassavi House
4356
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:40:00 -
[37] - Quote
Maybe not a full respec, but at the least an infantry respec.
Most people saying "no" to respecs are just scared that more players will be able to specialize into good prototype fits and give them a challenge in pub matches.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
6296
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Every time there's a new suit or new gear there should not be respecs.
If by "new suit/gear" you mean something like a Covert Ops scout suit or maybe a pilot suit, then yeah I can understand your point. But we're talking about core content here such as Amarr Scout, Gallente Scout, Caldari Scout, Minmatar Scout, Amarr Heavy, Gallente Heavy, Caldari Heavy, Minmatar Heavy, etc. etc. etc. If CCP implements all such core suits at once then there will need to be a respec of the suits because the Gallente, Minmatar, and Caldari Heavies (for example) were not readily available and thus many heavy players (most of which are not really fans of the Amarr) were forced to train into Amarr Heavy suits.
Now, if CCP were to introduce something like the pilot suits or Commander (not Commando) suits or maybe Covert Ops suits or perhaps pirate faction suits like the Sansha Nation or Dread Guristas that sometimes require two different racial skills to use (ie: the Dramiel in Eve), then I will agree with you that there should be NO respecs given out for those as they are technically NOT core content.
Another example of this is in Eve Online. Believe it or not, Eve Online did get one free respect shortly after commercial release back in 2003 according to the closed-beta veterans who were there. But that was a one-time thing to address the introduction of the remaining CORE content and since then there have been no respecs (at least the full ones). Over the following years, ships like the Orca, Rorqual, Nyx, Erebus, Moros, Revelation, etc. were introduced but no respecs were given because technically they were not CORE content.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
965
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:This right here is called expectation management, Soraya. Follow along carefully. A player buys aurum and spends aurum on boosters. Those boosters give him SP which is used to purchase skills he finds valuable. CCP comes along and makes those skills less valuable or makes other skills more valuable.
So you're advocating a full respec every month? For every nerf, a respec? Because every nerf makes skill points in something less valuable. CCP definitely broke it's expectation management with you. :/
Aero Yassavi wrote:Most people saying "no" to respecs are just scared that more players will be able to specialize into good prototype fits and give them a challenge in pub matches.
Nope. A lot of people saying they want respecs are the protostompers, because they want to continue to dominant lower SP players, without having to actually gain any more SP themselves.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Thang Bausch
Pierrot Le Fou Industries
82
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Sigberct Amni wrote:1) Eve doesn't sell boosters to monetize it's SP 2) Eve has attributes that vary skill training time and offers free respecs to that 3) Eve gives far more access to ships per skill than dust's dropsuits per skill 4) Eve has all of it's basic ships in each racial variant in the game right now. 1) All the more reason CCP has to encourage people to get more SP rather than reallocating what they have. Somewhere along the way, we do need people to actually pay for this game.
But I've already put 120 (150 if you count the package that came with my ps3 ultra slim) into this game in 6 months. It's a slimmy and unethical business model to make your money off of boosters and then keep drastically changing the skill tree so you have to infinitely buy boosters. It's just down right dishonest and deceptive. If CCP needs to be making $20 a month from me, then charge me $20 a month to play. Only then does the 'keep playing to get more sp' argument make sense.
This is the only free to play game I play now because the free to play model is always designed to DECEPTIVELY make waaaaay more money than the game deserves. I have gotten much more enjoyment from games like Fallout New Vegas and Skyrim then this crappy beta game and those games cost me 30 and 40 respectively (both on sale at bestbuy) and are (minus infamous bethesda bugginess) much, much more polished than this game. I would consider paying 9.99 a month to play this game, but no more. Change the business model to a more ethical one and maybe there will be less reason for people to demand respecs. |
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Thang Bausch
Pierrot Le Fou Industries
82
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Thang Bausch wrote:That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. I wanted to play an infiltrator logi and now I have to spend another 2-3 million sp to be able to play that role because they completely changed the purpose of my suit. I have put up with lots of skill tree changes and not demanded a respec, but this has gone too far for me.
Do you think this is a one time thing? This is an online game, as new suits are added, balance passes are made, these features will shift and change constantly. Get used to it. And you don't need a respec every time.
Then they need to change the business model to a monthly subscription. Right now the business model is dependent on them constantly changing the skill tree so everyone has to constantly buy boosters to get where they need to be.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
968
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Thang Bausch wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Thang Bausch wrote:That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. I wanted to play an infiltrator logi and now I have to spend another 2-3 million sp to be able to play that role because they completely changed the purpose of my suit. I have put up with lots of skill tree changes and not demanded a respec, but this has gone too far for me.
Do you think this is a one time thing? This is an online game, as new suits are added, balance passes are made, these features will shift and change constantly. Get used to it. And you don't need a respec every time. Then they need to change the business model to a monthly subscription. Right now the business model is dependent on them constantly changing the skill tree so everyone has to constantly buy boosters to get where they need to be.
1. Monthly subscription games are dying. 2. Online games always do buffs and nerfs, it's not going to stop either.
Let me put it this way, I bought AUR solely to buy BPOs. Some of those BPOs have now been removed from my inventory, and I've been given the AUR back for them. Realistically, I bought that AUR for BPOs, which are now gone. If you're entitled to a respec because CCP changed the game, I'm entitled to a check.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
338
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:So you're advocating a full respec every month? For every nerf, a respec? Because every nerf makes skill points in something less valuable. CCP definitely broke it's expectation management with you. :/
Now you're being deliberately disingenious. I said this already:
Sigberct Amni wrote:Disagree, all standard level infantry and vehicle racial variants need to exist first. Give that a final respec and move forward from there barring any large rework of skills. |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
968
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Thang Bausch
Pierrot Le Fou Industries
82
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:Thang Bausch wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. This right here is called expectation management, Soraya. Follow along carefully. A player buys aurum and spends aurum on boosters. Those boosters give him SP which is used to purchase skills he finds valuable. CCP comes along and makes those skills less valuable or makes other skills more valuable. Now that player feels cheated out of his money. You honestly believe he should just HTFU or do you believe he will keep spending anyways? Nope. That's not how this works. CCP tied money to SP and they now have an expectation to keep that SP valuable. They don't have to do anything, but their choice does effect future purchases. Like mine. I quit spending money after BPO fuckery began. These potential changes aren't exactly making me crack open my wallet any time soon either.
Very well said. You can't monetize sp and then try to devalue it with each release. |
Aero Yassavi
Yassavi House
4358
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Most people saying "no" to respecs are just scared that more players will be able to specialize into good prototype fits and give them a challenge in pub matches. Nope. A lot of people saying they want respecs are the protostompers, because they want to continue to dominant lower SP players, without having to actually gain any more SP themselves. Nice try to twist it around, but nope. Actually, most people who want respecs actually are just upset that all the racial core content wasn't available from the start.
There were people saying no vehicle respec when the vehicle changes got announced. I mean, the people who say "no respecs" are just hellbent on it and ignore all logic.
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
No, it's Super Amarr!
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XxWarlordxX97
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
4138
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:54:00 -
[47] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Most of the people crying for respecs already have 30+ mil SP, lol.
I want a respec
Level 5 forum warrior
A Solo heavy Boss
I.E. made me OP
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Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
338
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. Sorry, they aren't just variations. The difference between racial logi suits for example is huge. Bonus to fitted equipment pg/cpu on gal logi vrs. bonus to hacking speed on min logi? Completely different game play style for the two suits. |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
969
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Posted - 2014.01.07 19:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. Sorry, they aren't just variations. The difference between racial logi suits for example is huge. Bonus to fitted equipment pg/cpu on gal logi vrs. bonus to hacking speed on min logi? Completely different game play style for the two suits.
Nothing larger than the differences made in any given ship rebalance pass in EVE. Think about general cargo hauler ships that suddenly became ammo-only haulers.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Amarrgheddon
Warcaste
49
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:Thang Bausch wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:So has mine. But you don't need a respec. You can play the game more, and earn more skill points, and unlock new and additional suits. The right thing, is for CCP to man up, and finally refuse to give in to these silly demands. That's their 'free' to play business model: keep completely changing what you speced into so you have to infinitely buy boosters to spec into the type of class you want. This right here is called expectation management, Soraya. Follow along carefully. A player buys aurum and spends aurum on boosters. Those boosters give him SP which is used to purchase skills he finds valuable. CCP comes along and makes those skills less valuable or makes other skills more valuable. Now that player feels cheated out of his money. You honestly believe he should just HTFU or do you believe he will keep spending anyways? Nope. That's not how this works. CCP tied money to SP and they now have an expectation to keep that SP valuable. They don't have to do anything, but their choice does effect future purchases. Like mine. I quit spending money after BPO fuckery began. These potential changes aren't exactly making me crack open my wallet any time soon either.
also done spending money. |
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Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
338
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Sigberct Amni wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. Sorry, they aren't just variations. The difference between racial logi suits for example is huge. Bonus to fitted equipment pg/cpu on gal logi vrs. bonus to hacking speed on min logi? Completely different game play style for the two suits. Nothing larger than the differences made in any given ship rebalance pass in EVE. Think about general cargo hauler ships that suddenly became ammo-only haulers. As pointed out already, this game is not eve online. Most importantly, eve online does not monetize it's SP so the comparison is apples to oranges. |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
969
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:03:00 -
[52] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:As pointed out already, this game is not eve online. Most importantly, eve online does not monetize it's SP so the comparison is apples to oranges.
There is no substantiate difference between this patch and any other buff/nerf cycle, regarding how it affects SP in DUST 514. If you support a full respec for 1.8, you're gunning for a precedent for a respec for any other suit nerf to ever come.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
9732
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:04:00 -
[53] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. So why are you so upset if people get to play the variation they prefer?
Why do you think that full racial representation isn't important in the EVE universe?
Assault Dropship Montage
Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3153
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
THE GREY CARDINAL wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:SP cost for dropsuits are apparently being changed, to make things easier to spec in to.
This would definately mean a SP refund. Just like CCP does in EVE online. Or they just refund the difference like they did last time. No full respecs, just DS respecs if anything at all. Yeah, no.
The last respec for vehicles was a FULL refund that refunded all skills under the Turret Operation, Vehicle Command, and Vehicle Upgrades tree.
It was a FULL Respec for pilots
CoD ----->
<----- WoT
Please AR and Tank scrubs, go to your respective games. Leave DUST alone!
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Thang Bausch
Pierrot Le Fou Industries
82
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:06:00 -
[55] - Quote
Let me clarify: I want a respec on my min-logi suit only (and only once they finish overhauling the racial suits). I had speced into the flaylock pistol and the swarm launcher and watched the former nerfed into uselessness (it was admittedly very OP, but the over nerfed it, rather than redesigning it) and the latter nerfed into questionable usefulness and did not demand a respec. Completely overhauling racial suits and in the process completely changing the purpose of my suit is way different than adjusting values on a weapon. |
DeeJay One
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
184
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Atiim wrote: It was a FULL Respec for pilots
A full respec means a full respec - ALL skills to 0. Otherwise it's a partial skill respec. Of course some people have a pretty specific definition of the word full... |
The Attorney General
1731
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:07:00 -
[57] - Quote
Atiim wrote: Yeah, no.
The last respec for vehicles was a FULL refund that refunded all skills under the Turret Operation, Vehicle Command, and Vehicle Upgrades tree.
It was a FULL Respec for pilots
Way to be a drama queen.
Everyone had all their vehicle skills refunded.
Just like everyone will get their dropsuit skills back most likely, and hopefully the dropsuit upgrades and weaponry trees as well.
I really hope a bunch of people spec hard into tanks because they will regret it later.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
969
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:07:00 -
[58] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. So why are you so upset if people get to play the variation they prefer? Why do you think that full racial representation isn't important in the EVE universe?
Racial representation doesn't have a large impact on gameplay relevance (given that your race or who you fight for has no bearing on what gear you use), these are simply different variants of the heavy, logi, assault, scout suit types we've already had.
It's not about people playing the variation they prefer, it's about people getting to change the variation they play frequently with no cost to doing so. It encourages the rampant spam of whatever the fit of the month is, and doesn't even require that one earn new SP to do it.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
9732
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:08:00 -
[59] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Core gameplay was basically done in the game when a heavy suit, an assault suit, a logi suit, and a scout suit existed. All the rest of them are just variations, more or less. So why are you so upset if people get to play the variation they prefer? Why do you think that full racial representation isn't important in the EVE universe? Racial representation doesn't have a large impact on gameplay relevance (given that your race or who you fight for has no bearing on what gear you use), these are simply different variants of the heavy, logi, assault, scout suit types we've already had. It's not about people playing the variation they prefer, it's about people getting to change the variation they play frequently with no cost to doing so. It encourages the rampant spam of whatever the fit of the month is, and doesn't even require that one earn new SP to do it. So I just started playing the game with my SP maxed out?
I didn't work for that or spend $$ on that?
Man, you just blew my mind.
Assault Dropship Montage
Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7858
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:10:00 -
[60] - Quote
It seems pretty obvious that it will happen with all these suit additions and skill changes, but I guess I could be wrong.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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