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lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 264	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:33:00 - [1] - Quote So this is straight from Hilmar as he see it : CSM8 August 2013 : Ripard added that there are upcoming competitors for both EVE Online the space game and DUST 514 the shooter. "We're concerned that other companies are going to infringe upon this fantastic combination that you are creating even before you can get it going," he said. Trebor added that when CCP starts marketing DUST 514 strongly (as announced at Fanfest), the link is a potential differentiator from DUST's competition and if it isn't a strong differentiator, it will be harder to sell DUST. Hilmar was very understanding of the question and in particular held up Nova Knife's posts about DUST as really hitting the nail on the head about the need to make DUST 514 a really kick-ass shooter. Over a period of a few minutes, he made it very clear thatCCP's primary focus for the time being will be to improve the DUST 514 gameplay outside of the EVE-DUST link and build up DUST's reputation and audience in the challenging F2P market. Instead, the focus will be on improving the DUST experience; in particular, the focus will be on grabbing shooter fans right from the get-go. As a result, while Team True Grit will continue to build on the EVE-DUST link, Hilmar feels very strongly that they should focus on the DUST experience and build a shooter that CCP can be proud of. Link : http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/CSM8_August_Summit_Minutes.pdf I am not sure if that is wise, what do you think folks.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2697	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:40:00 - [2] - Quote Fix the frame rate and the garbage jinky-janky character movement and everything else will fall into place.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 896	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:41:00 - [3] - Quote It's extremely unwise. Because DUST will never compete with Battlefield or Call of Duty as a "great shooter". It can be a "good shooter", but it'll probably never be "great". The part where it's going to grab players' attention and hold it, is the MMO aspects and the EVE link. Every single person I've ever heard express any interest in this game and maybe trying it, was interested because of the universe it's in. But Hilmar has a very large ego, and thinks he is going to compete. Hopefully, DUST's new EP has a more realistic view and a better idea of what's really going to hold this game together, and that's a unique identity and playstyle you can't get from other FPS games. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1492	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:43:00 - [4] - Quote should have been done from get go. knew they are trying now, but certain missteps (1.7 among others) have made it plain obvious that FPS is hard for them. Probably from not understanding at first what makes a FPS a well... FPS. What your playing from closed beta, till now is NOT a RTS. It's FPS. Who unfortunately has yet to really live up to that. After that, then introduce the link. But it from what I got years ago, was FPS players being hired by eve mmo players to take care of **** and maybe warm some beds. ladies?
lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 264	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:46:00 - [5] - Quote If its only FPS you are looking for this should not be the game, I am in for it as they sold it, every bullit counts and you could take down empires. Today there is not even a good backstory way we are playing this game, we need a lot more MMO in the game.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6279	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:48:00 - [6] - Quote Well, Hilmar does have a point here. There needs to be greater player retention now more than ever. But to achieve all that, CCP will have to implement the core content such as all racial suits, all racial weapons, all racial vehicles, more maps, implement PvE content for once (hello rogue drones), revamp the New-Player Experience, fix matchmaking, optimize the code better to mitigate console freezes, and finally open up the secondary market. That's the only way to achieve greater player retention. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
steadyhand amarr Scions of Athra 2122	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:53:00 - [7] - Quote You know realease a feature complete game not built of egos and stubborn having unfun gameplay because one day it might work "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1492	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:53:00 - [8] - Quote lordjanuz wrote: If its only FPS you are looking for this should not be the game, I am in for it as they sold it, every bullit counts and you could take down empires. Today there is not even a good backstory way we are playing this game, we need a lot more MMO in the game. only empires your take down is on eve-side. I jumped into this cause of the chance to bag a good trophy. "destroy a ship in another game" That punch to the shoulder at the eve player to say "hey bud. I blew your ship for being a nerd" And that in the end is why we won't (at least in the next couple years, nor do I really see it happening) blow up any eve ships. Market will probably come first.
lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 264	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:55:00 - [9] - Quote I think its the players looking for a different FPS that is holding the game running today, if its FPS (grinding) thats the only focus in the next years , I think we will struggle to maintain the small playerbase we have. And if you are waithing for all the content to drop , so look at the timeframe it have been dropping in to game so far, do we get content every second month??? not sure. Then the time go slow if its in that timeframe things will get dropped. Roumers are that we are getting a colt next build.....nice, I think.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1472	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:09:00 - [10] - Quote lordjanuz wrote: So this is straight from Hilmar as he see it : CSM8 August 2013 : Ripard added that there are upcoming competitors for both EVE Online the space game and DUST 514 the shooter. "We're concerned that other companies are going to infringe upon this fantastic combination that you are creating even before you can get it going," he said. Trebor added that when CCP starts marketing DUST 514 strongly (as announced at Fanfest), the link is a potential differentiator from DUST's competition and if it isn't a strong differentiator, it will be harder to sell DUST. Hilmar was very understanding of the question and in particular held up Nova Knife's posts about DUST as really hitting the nail on the head about the need to make DUST 514 a really kick-ass shooter. Over a period of a few minutes, he made it very clear thatCCP's primary focus for the time being will be to improve the DUST 514 gameplay outside of the EVE-DUST link and build up DUST's reputation and audience in the challenging F2P market. Instead, the focus will be on improving the DUST experience; in particular, the focus will be on grabbing shooter fans right from the get-go. As a result, while Team True Grit will continue to build on the EVE-DUST link, Hilmar feels very strongly that they should focus on the DUST experience and build a shooter that CCP can be proud of. Link : http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/CSM8_August_Summit_Minutes.pdf I am not sure if that is wise, what do you think folks. 8 months ago, when gameplay was terrible, this was a valid way to approach the games development. The gameplay is pretty good now however, and I think CCP realizes the game is much improved since then. All they need to do is flesh out the remaining racial dropsuits and maybe a few new heavy weapons, and from there they could start building up FW in a way were it more significantly effects EVE online. The Caldari FW event that was largely organized by Castor crave a couple weeks ago was the first attempt of its kind. Many of this communities largest corporations put aside our differences and qued up for CFW in an attempt to assist eve pilots in plexing. The idea was that if we could assist in them plexing, eve pilots would begin to see the value in using Dust mercs to participate with them. Well the UI just isn't there yet. We couldn't effectively help the eve pilots because we couldn't choose which contracts we were given, and its things like that which I believe people like CCP nullabor will be working on (I think(because im pretty sure he programs UI though I could be wrong)). But you also have to keep in mind that there are different teams doing different things. Sure there will/should be focus on the EVE link, however there will always be focus on improving the game play as well, because CCP devides the work into teams. Marston VC, STB Director

iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1255	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:41:00 - [11] - Quote Thanks for posting this. A like for you sir. "We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 620	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:47:00 - [12] - Quote Why would they do that? The EVE-link is the only thing they could use to promote this game so far if you don't include all the SOON(TM)-Promises.
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 203	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:49:00 - [13] - Quote Yea CCP does need to fix there CORE OF THE GAME. Tankspam514, I liked AR514 better. 1.7 HMG hotfix works great. Now for more Heavy suits or guns soonGäó
Severance Pay Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 981	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:52:00 - [14] - Quote Time to fire Hilmar. This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 904	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:54:00 - [15] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Time to fire Hilmar. This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Hilmar isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but thankfully, it's the executive producer who actually will make decisions for this game, and the new one sounds like he has the right idea. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Severance Pay Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 981	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:59:00 - [16] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Severance Pay wrote: Time to fire Hilmar. This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Hilmar isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but thankfully, it's the executive producer who actually will make decisions for this game, and the new one sounds like he has the right idea. The CEO is still the CEO. He says he wants to stop catering to long term players and build a game around shooter players who typically do not play long term. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3413	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:00:00 - [17] - Quote If we focus on making a standalone FPS, the eve link will be halfassed and we still won't be able to compete with standalone FPSes The eve link is what makes Dust unique, and that needs to be strong before the other points become polished. Btw- the arena idea isn't cheap; it's a nice, lore-friendly excuse for unrealistic game modes. We used to have a time machine
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11614	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:05:00 - [18] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Time to fire Hilmar. This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. FPS gamers must be consistently appeased with a new game every 3-6 months. I am not saying new content, I mean these guys need a new Modern Warfare or Battlefield every season. They will play the newest thing for a few months and then move on to the newest game. Hilmar is saying this is the fanbase they want to build on with DUST. He wants to build on a fanbase of players that typically burn themselves out on the newest game then jump onto a new one months later. DUST will die. Excessively premature launch of Battlefield 4's has caused the company to sue itself and its losing base with its fans. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2409	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:07:00 - [19] - Quote ******* ridiculous that some people in this thread are against them focusing on making a game that works before welding it completely to another game Seriously people, do you want a game thats better balanced and runs well or some more spreadsheets to play with? Im not drunk, the planet just happens to be especially wobbly today.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11614	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:10:00 - [20] - Quote Back to the OP; I riddle you guys this; what good is a link? if your game is crashing, cant support voice, lags to hell, looks like crap, and has no idea of balance? Link at the end of the day is a gimmick and unless given full attention it deserves that can only come on the heels of an awesome shooter; will be nothing more than a lame gimmick. If we can get the game stable, and growing, and appreciated and then we do the link, the link will benifit more from it. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Operative 1174 Uuali The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 48	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:15:00 - [21] - Quote Lol, too late. The EVE link was THE element that was supposed to make this game unique. The kickass shooter part is dead. Best get going with that link. Dumb-asses. A long time agoGÇª but somehow in the future.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1439	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:23:00 - [22] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Severance Pay wrote: Time to fire Hilmar. This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Hilmar isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but thankfully, it's the executive producer who actually will make decisions for this game, and the new one sounds like he has the right idea. The CEO is still the CEO. He says he wants to stop catering to long term players and build a game around shooter players who typically do not play long term. You're making the assumption that long term players don't want solid, reliable, predictable, consistent game mechanics. Given the stakes we'll be fighting for i sure as hell do want game mechanics i can rely on and build a plan of attack or a defensive strategy around. Face it, getting hung up on 2" ledges, input schemes not working/balanced, navigating terrain being uncertain, lag and framerate will forever consign this game to an 'also ran' status, bordering on the technically accurate description of 'mickey mouse'. Maybe we've forgotten, but every single freakin' review written about this game has talked about the core fps mechanics. As things stand, they will continue to talk about the core fps mechanics, if they bother to review DUST again at all. I support SP rollover.
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 620	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:23:00 - [23] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: ******* ridiculous that some people in this thread are against them focusing on making a game that works before welding it completely to another game Seriously people, do you want a game thats better balanced and runs well or some more spreadsheets to play with? Duuuuh everyone is saying this since beta, but what could you read about DUST514? This is an AAA-shooter. Not true...maybe they are finally ready to announce this. WOW NEVER SEEN BEFORE PS3-GAME LINK WITH PC-GAME. Well in a minimal and only started to be interesting since FW orbitals changed and that is if you don't have to wait 15 min to get in a game. CCP communication about DUST is just utter crap and YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO SEE IT BUT WE KEEP PLAYING WITH YOUR HOPES AKA SOON(TM). Anyway I guess it was in their LONG-TERM PLANNING all the time .
Khan Hun Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 57	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:25:00 - [24] - Quote This makes a lot of sense, I'm an eve player and the eve link is key for me. HOWEVER Dust514 has to be able to stand on its own, with the eve link as an added feature to set it apart from other FPS games. Without a decent, fun to play FPS game the link is meaningless anyway. Any eve link will need a decent number of dust players who enjoy playing, and that will only happen if the game is good.
Operative 1174 Uuali The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 48	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:31:00 - [25] - Quote RKKR wrote: Delta 749 wrote: ******* ridiculous that some people in this thread are against them focusing on making a game that works before welding it completely to another game Seriously people, do you want a game thats better balanced and runs well or some more spreadsheets to play with? Duuuuh everyone is saying this since beta, but what could you read about DUST514? This is an AAA-shooter. Not true...maybe they are finally ready to announce this. WOW NEVER SEEN BEFORE PS3-GAME LINK WITH PC-GAME. Well in a minimal and only started to be interesting since FW orbitals changed and that is if you don't have to wait 15 min to get in a game. CCP communication about DUST is just utter crap and YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO SEE IT BUT WE KEEP PLAYING WITH YOUR HOPES AKA SOON(TM). Anyway I guess it was in their LONG-TERM PLANNING all the time . The EVE link was the only reason for this game's existence. It was the element they were marketing. They now see what hole they've dug and probably are having more trouble with the EVE link so they figure they can salvage through playing up the FPS part. This is just another shooter on a console. That is already a bad place to be. They are making it worse. If you find yourself complaining about balance and weapon/suit/vehicle functionality in this game just keep repeating: EVE is the only reason. EVE is the only reason. EVE is the only reason this game will ever matter. A long time agoGÇª but somehow in the future.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 910	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:52:00 - [26] - Quote Ironwolf, the game isn't going to still have customers by the time it becomes an awesome shooter, if it doesn't have features that actually make people interested in playing it. Unless you can promise an awesome shooter by next month. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11615	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:59:00 - [27] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Ironwolf, the game isn't going to still have customers by the time it becomes an awesome shooter, if it doesn't have features that actually make people interested in playing it. Unless you can promise an awesome shooter by next month. I don't think abandoning everything to get link there is going to be worthwhile effort though not while the game laments on poorer game play that can certainly be better. Some links can happen much much later and we have so far done with a near absence of one. I also have to constantly remind people I do have access to NDA material and you are going to have a hard time convincing me that based on facts I am looking at that somehow the link will magically keep people in the game. I think its far more important for us to establish a far better 'first 5 minutes' and that can be easily achieved 'without direct link'. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 265	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:21:00 - [28] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Ironwolf, the game isn't going to still have customers by the time it becomes an awesome shooter, if it doesn't have features that actually make people interested in playing it. Unless you can promise an awesome shooter by next month. I don't think abandoning everything to get link there is going to be worthwhile effort though not while the game laments on poorer game play that can certainly be better. Some links can happen much much later and we have so far done with a near absence of one. I also have to constantly remind people I do have access to NDA material and you are going to have a hard time convincing me that based on facts I am looking at that somehow the link will magically keep people in the game. I think its far more important for us to establish a far better 'first 5 minutes' and that can be easily achieved 'without direct link'. No one is talking about abandoning everything to get a link ( as you say ) our consern is that it will fade away complitly. Becouse getting this game up to a decent FPS is a long way, but what about all that CCP is nowned for , hardcore,background story, unpredictebale. I just bought my ticket to fanfest and its my 4th time I am going there, and we have been there when Dust514 have been promoted, and it has been great, but if all this is going to get way in the background we are not talking about the same game anymore. Wy build up alliances with EVE players, production, PVE.... Just sad to see all that going away. But I will surely be there and see what they presents, and ask questions. Where is Dust 514 going.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1493	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:33:00 - [29] - Quote Who will anyone play a crappy FPS game for a eve link? You can have the story and market and guess how it will be judged? the way it plays. THIS IS A FPS game. It should have been treated and reviewed as that from the get go. Then by now we would have been talking about eve-link or already on it, rather then still trying to balance this game.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1472	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:36:00 - [30] - Quote All he is saying is that he will leave only the one dev team devloping the link, it will still progress, but slower. Instead they are throwing resources at the more important stuff, like content, balance, graphics, maps that kinda thing. Provided they get a boost in budget and some more programmers in, expect to see a burst of new stuff in the next year. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1493	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:38:00 - [31] - Quote Eve players are patting on themselves to much, for a niche game among it's genre and non existent on the minds of FPS players. "we will bring thousands of fps players to eve" I laughed when he said that. not likely. Dust is niche. but it still is a fps. You can have everything else but without it being a great FPS, the only ones left playing will be eve players. which is kinda what we seeing now with game not holding zero retention.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 914	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:42:00 - [32] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: Eve players are patting on themselves to much, for a niche game among it's genre and non existent on the minds of FPS players. "we will bring thousands of fps players to eve" I laughed when he said that. not likely. Dust is niche. but it still is a fps. You can have everything else but without it being a great FPS, the only ones left playing will be eve players. which is kinda what we seeing now with game not holding zero retention. Most mainstream FPS players won't stick with a game more than a couple months anyways, so why would they stick with a game that requires a far longer commitment to reap significant reward? It's an MMOFPS, it needs to appeal to people who want more than just a random twitch shooter. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1495	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:49:00 - [33] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Surt gods end wrote: Eve players are patting on themselves to much, for a niche game among it's genre and non existent on the minds of FPS players. "we will bring thousands of fps players to eve" I laughed when he said that. not likely. Dust is niche. but it still is a fps. You can have everything else but without it being a great FPS, the only ones left playing will be eve players. which is kinda what we seeing now with game not holding zero retention. Most mainstream FPS players won't stick with a game more than a couple months anyways, so why would they stick with a game that requires a far longer commitment to reap significant reward? It's an MMOFPS, it needs to appeal to people who want more than just a random twitch shooter. Don't tell resistance, Killzone, socom, arma, vegas players that. the casual players will always jump game to game. that's any game. but FPS players will stay a lot longer then a few months. few months is too short to just keep a clan in game for. many stay till the next expansion comes out (kz3 -->kz4) or resistance1 to resistance 2, then Resistance 3. and what great is that you will see the same clans in all three!
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1441	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:49:00 - [34] - Quote The link is not going away. Imo, CCP is only in this game for the link. We will have the link we imagined and more. But first things first: playability, enjoyment, stability, credibility for the core game. We're going to get a lot of surprising stuffs this year - this same time in 2015 when we look back at where we are now it will be fairly crazy just how much the game has changed. These recent patches have done a lot of backend housecleaning and preparation and we are about the reap the rewards that come from putting your house in order. I support SP rollover.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 353	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:55:00 - [35] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Time to fire Hilmar. This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. FPS gamers must be consistently appeased with a new game every 3-6 months. I am not saying new content, I mean these guys need a new Modern Warfare or Battlefield every season. They will play the newest thing for a few months and then move on to the newest game. Hilmar is saying this is the fanbase they want to build on with DUST. He wants to build on a fanbase of players that typically burn themselves out on the newest game then jump onto a new one months later. DUST will die. These sorts of threads and the OP show how completely out of touch the Dust playerbase and developers are with what the mainstream FPS crowd actually want. 1) FPS gamers do NOT need to be appeased, people still play Counterstrike, Quake and Unreal, the only reason they shift from CoD X to CoD X+1 is that Infinity Ward release a new game and they move to track the rest of the player base because large playerbase = better matches. If they had stopped at the first CoD Modern Warfare and never made another game, everyone would still be playing that. 2) FPS gamers insist on balance and fairness. 100% of all competitive advantage comes from gunskills, not time. Quasi-MMO skill points and ISK and grinding for tiered combat power are an immediate turnoff to most of the FPS market. 3) Map design is equal in importance to weapon and vehicle design. Dust maps have no FPS principles imbedded in them. I could go on ...
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1472	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:56:00 - [36] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: The link is not going away. Imo, CCP is only in this game for the link. We will have the link we imagined and more. But first things first: playability, enjoyment, stability, credibility for the core game. We're going to get a lot of surprising stuffs this year - this same time in 2015 when we look back at where we are now it will be fairly crazy just how much the game has changed. These recent patches have done a lot of backend housecleaning and preparation and we are about the reap the rewards that come from putting your house in order. Amen Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1495	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:58:00 - [37] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: Severance Pay wrote: Time to fire Hilmar. This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. FPS gamers must be consistently appeased with a new game every 3-6 months. I am not saying new content, I mean these guys need a new Modern Warfare or Battlefield every season. They will play the newest thing for a few months and then move on to the newest game. Hilmar is saying this is the fanbase they want to build on with DUST. He wants to build on a fanbase of players that typically burn themselves out on the newest game then jump onto a new one months later. DUST will die. These sorts of threads and the OP show how completely out of touch the Dust playerbase and developers are with what the mainstream FPS crowd actually want. 1) FPS gamers do NOT need to be appeased, people still play Counterstrike, Quake and Unreal, the only reason they shift from CoD X to CoD X+1 is that Infinity Ward release a new game and they move to track the rest of the player base because large playerbase = better matches. If they had stopped at the first CoD Modern Warfare and never made another game, everyone would still be playing that. 2) FPS gamers insist on balance and fairness. 100% of all competitive advantage comes from gunskills, not time. Quasi-MMO skill points and ISK and grinding for tiered combat power are an immediate turnoff to most of the FPS market. 3) Map design is equal in importance to weapon and vehicle design. Dust maps have no FPS principles imbedded in them. I could go on ... PREACH IT SHION!! PREACH FOR THE FPS PLAYERS! +1 I can't stop clapping!! I was a bit insulted by the FPS are fickle. many fps clans can date back from beginning of series.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1511	Posted - 2014.01.06 21:28:00 - [38] - Quote I have to agree with IWS. Here's why: He has hinted more than enough times that the problem is that players leave right after or even during the acedemy. I take him at his word, he has information we don't. A dwindling playerbase is the biggest threat to the game. No players, no more development. If people are leaving as soon as IWS says, it's NOT due to the lack of EvE-Dust link, they wouldn't have figured that out by then. I'm not even sure that it's protostomping but I'm sure that contributes. The #1 priority should be keeping players, mostly new ones. (Keeping us vets happy is less important but not to be ignored either, of course.) What keeps players? A game that is fun to play! Fix the mechanics, fix the lag, make newer and better maps, get the basic content like racial suits out and balance them. Literally everything else should be a distant second in terms of priority. Now, this conversation was from a few months ago, so naturally they've made great strides with hit detection and that sort of thing. BUT, we still have impossibly stupid matchmaking, we still get hung up on small ledges, we still have ludicrous lag, we still have the comms bug, we still have fatal errors (fortunately I've had fewer of those than a lot of other people). Those things make people play this game for an hour or two and say "This is a crappy game! I'm going back to..." COD, BF, whatever it is. If the game is fun, people stick around. They stick around, then they care a lot about the link. Maybe. If they don't stick around then it's all for nothing. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 265	Posted - 2014.01.06 21:33:00 - [39] - Quote Not much we can do anyway, we just have to see how it plays out. I do think we all whant a great game, lets hope CCP can pull it off.
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2014.01.06 21:33:00 - [40] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I think its far more important for us to establish a far better 'first 5 minutes' and that can be easily achieved 'without direct link'. . . and that sounds like you have had a chit chat with Trebor & a lot like some of his push for NPE a while back in EVE. Now, the first five minutes is pretty good in EVE (the problem now is "what the eff do I do" after three months) The NPE is DUST is crap, has been crap, and continues to be crap. It's the continued problem CCP has had of "here's a box of legos, now go eff yourself." Hard to play with a box of legos when some of the pieces were mis-made, but you need the busted up ones to work to make all the other fancy parts stick. . . Would that CCP had spent some time making a tutorial mission or something but there is no code yet for PvE related things. I keep thinking back to the tutorials in Mechwarrior 2 where the trainer would "swear" at you and tell you that you "drive like a freebirth." while telling you how to move your mech & fire. Something with some voice acting. "This is a mass driver my little Fedo. It's most effective against armor. Now, if you can manage to do it without blowing your foot off, I want you to engage and destroy those target drones to the east. Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention the drones have live ammo. . . I know you are for all intents and purposes immortal like me recruit, but getting shot still hurts, so if you even think about engaging me, I will PT you until you die, bring you back to life, and PT you to death again. Got that Fedo? None of that will matter until they fix all the various warts and bumps in the code & mechanics. All the gear that is supposed to be int he game would be nice too. Fix what's here and put all the pieces in the box of legos. One point to make is that these minutes were delayed until the new year due to foot dragging on CCP's part. I know that they were ready a good while ago but due to vacations/holidays and some obstinacy in some parties (and some CSM members not doing their fair share thus forcing other CSMs to do someone else's part as well) the s-it got dragged out months. This is a snap shot of where CCP was at summer 2013. In case some of you hadn't noticed, it is winter 2014 here in the northern hemisphere. On one good but different point, CCP is taking a completely different development path for Valkyrie and doing what they effed up on in DUST, which is making the game work as a game first. Only after that is done do you figure out how to add it into the existing IP's mechanics and tie it in. DUST came from a completely different perspective and started as an idea of "hey we have all this game space not being used, what gimmick came we come up with to use this? That being said, I still like the gimmick, I am still a cheer leader for the gimmick, and I want the gimmick to work. OB improvements have been nice on the other side of TQ, but now, instead of shooting thumbers from space, I wanna shoot an EVE geek's faction fit shiny out from under him. Heck, I still want WiS/Incarna to happen in some fashion, just a fashion that has a valid game play mechanic.

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2388	Posted - 2014.01.06 21:42:00 - [41] - Quote In terms of the link and the core game if Dusts wants to succeed it can't be either the link or the core game. It needs to be both in parallel. The core game has to be fun and plug into the link in a meaningful way. CCP can't go into the future blind to any future vision of how Dust and Eve interact. It can't be done through half-finished systems that have failed because they are missing chunks that were supposed to make them work (glares at planetary conquest). Yes, Dust has to be a game that hooks you from the beginning, but if CCP doesn't set clear and *obtainable* goals for what Dust is going to be to greater New Eden moving forward then Dust is destined to decline into irrelevancy. In a crowded shooter market, Dust's main resource that it can plug into to differentiate itself is the living and breathing New Eden universe. No one can copy that at this point. Honestly, there is no point to NOT have Dust plug into Eve in a very tangible way. Frankly, if Eve were to die so to would Dust anyways. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2416	Posted - 2014.01.06 21:50:00 - [42] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Surt gods end wrote: Eve players are patting on themselves to much, for a niche game among it's genre and non existent on the minds of FPS players. "we will bring thousands of fps players to eve" I laughed when he said that. not likely. Dust is niche. but it still is a fps. You can have everything else but without it being a great FPS, the only ones left playing will be eve players. which is kinda what we seeing now with game not holding zero retention. Most mainstream FPS players won't stick with a game more than a couple months anyways, so why would they stick with a game that requires a far longer commitment to reap significant reward? It's an MMOFPS, it needs to appeal to people who want more than just a random twitch shooter. Where did you get that idea from? Hell I keep an old N64 around just to play Perfect Dark with some friends because its a good solid game, plus trash talking in person is so much more satisfying The only ones I can think of who change their game so often is the COD crowd and thats more to do with them churning out another one all the damn time and even then it shows those guys have brand loyalty Im not drunk, the planet just happens to be especially wobbly today.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11620	Posted - 2014.01.06 21:54:00 - [43] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: In terms of the link and the core game if Dusts wants to succeed it can't be either the link or the core game. It needs to be both in parallel. The core game has to be fun and plug into the link in a meaningful way. CCP can't go into the future blind to any future vision of how Dust and Eve interact. It can't be done through half-finished systems that have failed because they are missing chunks that were supposed to make them work (glares at planetary conquest). Yes, Dust has to be a game that hooks you from the beginning, but if CCP doesn't set clear and *obtainable* goals for what Dust is going to be to greater New Eden moving forward then Dust is destined to decline into irrelevancy. In a crowded shooter market, Dust's main resource that it can plug into to differentiate itself is the living and breathing New Eden universe. No one can copy that at this point. Honestly, there is no point to NOT have Dust plug into Eve in a very tangible way. Frankly, if Eve were to die so to would Dust anyways. Its more of a question as to when and how though, as kain puts it half hattery just annoys players even more so. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
BMSTUBBY KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 591	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:04:00 - [44] - Quote I could give two fcks about the link. Give me something better than this, LOL 16 v 16 TDM lagfest junk. Don't try and sell me a pile of garbage with some lip stick slapped on it. Fix your broke a$$ FPS game. Then give me a full released version of your fixed game, don't just keep giving me this SoonGäó Bull****. Then I will pump some money your way to give me the, on the backlog table SoonGäó link crap . CCP needs to stop trying to get PS3 FPS's interested in a, LOL uber l33t PC geeky space ship pew pew game. It is not going to happen with this garbage CCP keeps trying to push. Give us that AAA FPS that you said you wanted to give us and then maybe we will look at the link between your space ship pew pew game and Dust as important. As is now, meh F2P lobby shooter. Nothing to see here move along to a better FPS. Meh, F2P Lobby Shooter BattleDuty 514 Working as intended.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1441	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:06:00 - [45] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: In terms of the link and the core game if Dusts wants to succeed it can't be either the link or the core game. It needs to be both in parallel. The core game has to be fun and plug into the link in a meaningful way. CCP can't go into the future blind to any future vision of how Dust and Eve interact. It can't be done through half-finished systems that have failed because they are missing chunks that were supposed to make them work (glares at planetary conquest). Yes, Dust has to be a game that hooks you from the beginning, but if CCP doesn't set clear and *obtainable* goals for what Dust is going to be to greater New Eden moving forward then Dust is destined to decline into irrelevancy. In a crowded shooter market, Dust's main resource that it can plug into to differentiate itself is the living and breathing New Eden universe. No one can copy that at this point. Honestly, there is no point to NOT have Dust plug into Eve in a very tangible way. Frankly, if Eve were to die so to would Dust anyways. One of the things i've been thinking a lot about lately is something i used to post a lot: DUST doesn't really have any competition in the sense that no other developer has a living, breathing historical universe to plug into like CCP has with New Eden. And that is still true, and when mulling it over i used to think things like 'it's the ten years of community interaction and storybuilding that can't be reproduced, it's the payoff for running that single shard - any other developer who wanted into DUST's genre would have to seriously look at doing years of community development and all that entails. And that is still true also. But lately, because of Destiny and Star Citizen and many others, i've found my thoughts straying down the path of: 'Ok, we can't beat New Eden at it's own game, but how well could we fake it so that the player experience felt almost as deep? Because we know how to beat CCP at fun factor and quality implementation.' For me that's the punch line, i suppose: New Eden is irreplaceable, but a high quality facsimile of that experience is definitely not 10 years away. It's like a favorite quote on the existence/nonexistence of free will from a close friend of mine who's a very sharp cookie: 'I don't need freewill, just a good enough illusion of it that i don't figure it out before i die.' Makes me smile every time ;) I support SP rollover.
bigpapamc 1977 Da Short Buss Legacy Rising 0	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:10:00 - [46] - Quote Iron wolf, that was the most pragmatic/intelligent response I'be seen in these forums yet
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1499	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:16:00 - [47] - Quote At lass with all the issues.. Clan battles (corp battles. yeah yeah) will always be on the back burner. It also won't come out if there is a chance that it will compete with PC. And for obvious reasons end up being more popular. So a simple FPS mechanic won't be introduced anytime soon. All the betting.... all the prestige... All the ladies willing to role play on ps eye after words... not until any time soon.
ReGnYuM Imperfects 1716	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:55:00 - [48] - Quote Rock on Mr CEO Hilmar! You need a strong foundation to build the greatest Skyscraper aka Lets make the core mechanics awesome, and the build the game from there.\ +1 Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I Slay, for thy Empress
Auris Lionesse SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 44	Posted - 2014.01.06 23:30:00 - [49] - Quote Needs to be more like eve and less like cod.
Avinash Decker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 90	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:58:00 - [50] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Needs to be more like eve and less like cod. And how are CCP suppose to do that? They are somethings in this game that can not be like eve because of it being a shooter and if they try to make it eve( I'm assuming open world) it would take a very long time to implement and may not even benefit the game at all , they could use that time to make the game have better mechanics. I guess it is the latter.

Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 666	Posted - 2014.01.07 01:12:00 - [51] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: And that is still true also. But lately, because of Destiny and Star Citizen and many others, i've found my thoughts straying down the path of: 'Ok, we can't beat New Eden at it's own game, but how well could we fake it so that the player experience felt almost as deep? Because we know how to beat CCP at fun factor and quality implementation.' Yup. To me, the EVE link is kinda meaningless. I originally joined because of it. but now that I've played DUST for a while... it's meaningless. Districts flip back and forth, with no real relevance to anyone, least of all me. it doesnt affect me in any way. FooBar VI, district 9 just got taken over? Yawn... it'll get taken back in a day or two. or a week. or even if it doesnt.. so what?? I'm hoping that they will integrate with the much-rumored PvE some time soon. I'd really prefer some kind of Mass Effect type universe to wander around and interact with. To put down roots somewhere. Just being stuck in the same clone quarters, is getting rather tedious at this point. There should be more areas to socialize visually. Some kind of "warbarge" like area, for the local zone, perhaps, at the very LEAST.
Den-tredje Baron The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 254	Posted - 2014.01.07 01:14:00 - [52] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: It's extremely unwise. Because DUST will never compete with Battlefield or Call of Duty as a "great shooter". It can be a "good shooter", but it'll probably never be "great". The part where it's going to grab players' attention and hold it, is the MMO aspects and the EVE link. Every single person I've ever heard express any interest in this game and maybe trying it, was interested because of the universe it's in. But Hilmar has a very large ego, and thinks he is going to compete. Hopefully, DUST's new EP has a more realistic view and a better idea of what's really going to hold this game together, and that's a unique identity and playstyle you can't get from other FPS games. ^^ damm if i could have written anything it would have been that maybe in a bit more crude and unpleasent way
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1445	Posted - 2014.01.07 02:39:00 - [53] - Quote Den-tredje Baron wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: It's extremely unwise. Because DUST will never compete with Battlefield or Call of Duty as a "great shooter". It can be a "good shooter", but it'll probably never be "great". The part where it's going to grab players' attention and hold it, is the MMO aspects and the EVE link. Every single person I've ever heard express any interest in this game and maybe trying it, was interested because of the universe it's in. But Hilmar has a very large ego, and thinks he is going to compete. Hopefully, DUST's new EP has a more realistic view and a better idea of what's really going to hold this game together, and that's a unique identity and playstyle you can't get from other FPS games. ^^ damm if i could have written anything it would have been that maybe in a bit more crude and unpleasent way I really don't see why this is a priori true: other games perform well on the PS3. There is nothing magical here, just a series of technical problems to solve, mistakes to be made and corrected, lessons to be learned along the way. CCP is learning as they go, and we can see evidence of that with each new patch. The only way i can see the argument being valid is if DUST is using machine resources that those other games don't need too, like keeping track of the persistent game elements, maintaining chat channels that span two games, etc. It would be nice to get a devblog on the technical challenges of setting a FPS in a living universe. I support SP rollover.
VonSpliff 0uter.Heaven 20	Posted - 2014.01.07 02:59:00 - [54] - Quote The only reason I've play this game for the past 19+ months, is the hope that one day i would have to ride on some spaceship. Taken to a far off planet, to do battle against other mercs, while eve nerds have to figure out the logistic to make campaigns successful. And will continue to play this turd, till that day comes or the servers go offline. A true Star Wars without those gay Jedi. Oh yeah the forums are hell'a fun to read. And you can't beat this community.
Protocake JR Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 1220	Posted - 2014.01.07 06:38:00 - [55] - Quote The responses of this thread explains a lot about the current playerbase. This game HAS to be stable. People still currently run into unaccetable levels of performance problems which makes killing and dying (the two most fundamental aspecs of competitive FPS) extremely frustrating. It's a deal breaker for most (99%+) people. When 1.7 first dropped, I was a fanboy for like a week. I was so happy because of the new content. However, this quickly wore off after the "new content smell" wore off and I was back right were I was before: hating the game because of it's inconsistant/low framerate, hit detection, and poor matchmaking. It turns out I was just content starved. The PC and SL should fit into the Sidearm slot so it's accessible and practical to carry one. AV spam vs V spam
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4399	Posted - 2014.01.07 06:56:00 - [56] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: It's extremely unwise. Because DUST will never compete with Battlefield or Call of Duty as a "great shooter". It can be a "good shooter", but it'll probably never be "great". The part where it's going to grab players' attention and hold it, is the MMO aspects and the EVE link. Every single person I've ever heard express any interest in this game and maybe trying it, was interested because of the universe it's in. But Hilmar has a very large ego, and thinks he is going to compete. Hopefully, DUST's new EP has a more realistic view and a better idea of what's really going to hold this game together, and that's a unique identity and playstyle you can't get from other FPS games. I actually gave your post a Like, but it also bears keeping in mind that this game can have as deep a link to EVE as they can manage and no one will play it if it sucks. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1965	Posted - 2014.01.07 07:09:00 - [57] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Back to the OP; I riddle you guys this; what good is a link? if your game is crashing, cant support voice, lags to hell, looks like crap, and has no idea of balance? Link at the end of the day is a gimmick and unless given full attention it deserves that can only come on the heels of an awesome shooter; will be nothing more than a lame gimmick. If we can get the game stable, and growing, and appreciated and then we do the link, the link will benifit more from it. VC could be considered EVE-DUST as it prevents communication between the two, lag + crashes yeah, Balance it's bad but bearable. Also Den, come over to the dark side, Spectral has... just need you and Remm A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 356	Posted - 2014.01.07 07:14:00 - [58] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Needs to be more like eve and less like cod. Who is your target market? 500,000 EVE players of whom maybe 10% want to play FPS or the 10's of millions of dedicated FPS players world-wide? Don't you want everyone who currently plays CoD, BF, PS2, TF2, KZ, GoW, CS blah blah blah to come play Dust and have half a million concurrent players? If you don't want this then you are demented and would prefer this game to fail. Then, the only way you're going to get that is to make this less EVE and more FPS. To attract the FPS crowd this game needs a MASSIVE, radical overhaul on just about every aspect of its systems: 1) Complete tiercide - all equipment are sidegrades and options 2) Fire all the map-makers and replace them with people who know how to design maps and while you're doing this MASSIVE work on game modes at the same time. 3) A complete rebuild of the SP system to reroute or even eliminate the advantage of time spent in game. Even make it like EVE, time spent just means you can fulfill more roles rather than going godmode in one role. 4) Decide whether this game is going to stay console and delete KBM controls or move to PC and make everything KBM 5) Stop using the EVE resistance based tanking model 6) Actually have a proper Freemium model that works (see Guild Wars 2) rather than the @$$ they have at present. 7) Major work on fixing the remaining lag/terrain/bug issues (there's less than before but still problems) and implementing a proper ballistics model. Then after all this when you've finished building a proper FPS you can look at the EVE linking. They have two realistic choices: - go large, burn it all down and rebuild into a whole new beast with some chance of getting it right or; - fiddle at the edges, never recover and run a profitless tech demo which will eventually lose enough money to convince even the most pride-harden CEO to shut it down.
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 183	Posted - 2014.01.07 07:55:00 - [59] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Time to fire Hilmar. This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The moment someone tries to "fire" Hilmar he will dispand CCP forever ;)
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 976	Posted - 2014.01.07 08:44:00 - [60] - Quote EVE-DUST link is a collection of many Jesus features... And we are now where EVE was a couple of years ago where focusing on Jesus features is dumb.



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