DUST Search - The $100 Repec

BattleCry1791 wrote:

Oh quit your whining already. Let's just face one simple fact

The Game is still in Beta.
Scout and Heavy racial variants? Tanks? LAVs? Heavy guns? Dropships? Installations? Pilot Dropsuits? Player Market?
When these things are all introduced, then and only then, can anyone consider the game "released". And I'd propose that 14 days after that happens, no more respecs should ever be discussed.

Until that happens, let's just be honest with ourselves. A lot of guys had quit playing this game because they spec'd into X, X got nerfed, and they didn't feel like grinding/AFKing to spec into something else. I have a clan full of such players. Well, that and a bunch of players that flat out don't trust CCP to do anything right.

However, the old adage of "one fix and 8 screw ups" per patch seems to have fallen by the wayside (Did all the Zipper guys get fired or does the new cruise director have it going on?).

As I come back to the game after the last couple of updates I've been very pleased with the changes I've seen. Biggest problem I'm seeing is the RR. The maps lend to that weapon SO well. Not sure how to fix that to be honest. Will adding more players for the 32 vs 32 help or hurt the problem? Time will tell. However I will say that it's not OP, but working as intended.

Back the $100 dollar (US) Respec.

Why not just allow for a respec as the game progresses? CCP, you'll make 20 grand the first day, and that's probably conservative. With the coming FOTM's that we have yet to see...why not give players the opportunity to respec just so long as they pay through the nose? I can tell you right now, I got two toons that I'd do it for. My main is so screwed up I can't play on him anymore (my heart is Minmatar, but my playstyle is actually Gallente Logi...18mil+ SP sunk in all the wrong places).

And what about all the tankers that abandoned the game that would like to come back but spec'd out of tanking and don't want to grind?

CCP offers AUR versions of plenty of gear to keep players competitive as they grind up their toons, but in reality, it's all about money and "micro transactions".

I know all you "purists" will come running to the thread with "NO REPECS...CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES"...and if the game was anywhere near finished or "pure" itself, I'd be inclined to agree. But it's not. In order to make an informed choice, you have to know all the variables that go into making that choice. Since we can't peer into the future of the army of "SOON"s that are yet to be, it's time to give it up and ask yourself one question.

Do you want to have a playerbase? If yes, then just accept that this is still a F2P beta and player choice should trump all.

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Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1673	Posted - 2013.12.24 15:36:00 - [31] - Quote $100? Are you ***** stupid? On this game? Seriously, you. I already wasted enough money gaining that SP and then for some crybaby piece of to get my weapons nerfed because the server system is ** and explosive damage was the only consistency through the lag (just one example)? Eat , mother **. It's still in beta. Until these fucktards can figure out the basics of their own *** game, respecs shouldn't cost jack . Mother *** on here always act like CCP is in dire need of money, while CCP keeps opening and expanding new divisions. $100? Yeah, that and ** you for even suggesting it. Have you ever had a Marketing class? Do that first, then post marketing suggestions. Alyssa Milano.
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven 691	Posted - 2013.12.24 15:36:00 - [32] - Quote There was an idea awhile back to add respec options at the cost of scaling SP. it went something like this: first respec - 1 million SP cost second - 3 million third - 5 million etc.... This would greatly discourage FOTM chasing. Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
BattleCry1791 PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 283	Posted - 2013.12.24 17:10:00 - [33] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: $100? Are you ***** stupid? On this game? Seriously, you. I already wasted enough money gaining that SP and then for some crybaby piece of to get my weapons nerfed because the server system is ** and explosive damage was the only consistency through the lag (just one example)? Eat , mother **. It's still in beta. Until these fucktards can figure out the basics of their own *** game, respecs shouldn't cost jack . Mother *** on here always act like CCP is in dire need of money, while CCP keeps opening and expanding new divisions. $100? Yeah, that and you for even suggesting it. Have you ever had a Marketing class? Do that first, then post marketing suggestions. Wow, I think I struck a nerve. Lemme guess you work, or think you're good at Marketing? Well, bub, this ain't about marketing. This is about putting a price tag on a service that will both allow for the service, but discourage it at the same time. Do you know what takes to respec an account? I don't. It may be easy, or it may take setting every tree to zero manually. Who's doing it? How much time does it take and how much are they being paid? What other duties are they not performing to do this task and how much more strategic is that task to current projects? I love "marketing guys". Too stupid to be an engineer and to much of an asshat to be in sales. The $100 dollar (US) Price tag is designed to: 1) Give CCP a fiscal incentive to do it on a regular basis. They WILL NOT do it for free on the player's schedule, only when they feel the need to do so, and it's a major headache. 2) Make it so that only either the most serious of Dust players or those with plenty of discretionary income (like me). There was already one "I don't know if I'd pay that much for a respec". What that says is that the poster of that comment wants the respec, so now we're just haggling price. Again, the price should be discouraging, hence, the higher pricetag. Also, do you know how much Money Dust has made? Is it Solvent? Is CCP taking money from EvE's profit line to invest in these other divisions? Are you their accountant? No? Oh, well in that case, you, you *** **. For an "old guy" you sure do sound a lot like a member of the "Money for nuthin" free entitlement generation. Get a haircut, hippie.
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation 495	Posted - 2013.12.24 17:21:00 - [34] - Quote Dollers? i live in england XD *Assassination is my thing.*
Blind Nojoy G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 71	Posted - 2013.12.24 18:03:00 - [35] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Blind Nojoy wrote: I'm sure something along the lines of what we saw with the vehicle changes is coming for infantry. When they add in the rest of the racial suits, and especially if they are changing the suit bonuses, which is the reason I chose Gallente in the first place (that and they are 'Murica). They will need to. I would assume we get a SP refund for suits. I wouldn't expect full respecs. I personally think they SHOULD do a full respec when the game gets out of beta (zing). But I think that won't happen. SP refund will be it. Do yourselves a favor and put the SP into core skills this time so we don't have to hear about it on the forums please (directed at mindless BB's, not OP). Should be interesting quite frankly, this next update...since "balance" to CCP means invincible vehicles and AV as powerful as my stream of pss after 8 beers. One can only logically assume my scout will be ultimate punching madrugars into orbit after they get "rebalanced" in a months time. Wait. You like* having a bonus to shields on your GalAssault? I did it all for the hybrid weapon CPU reduction. It was sexy.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 368	Posted - 2013.12.24 18:19:00 - [36] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: into amarr heavy or quit. in short: CCP currently penalizes the players everytime he makes a decision. the premise under which a player decided to spend SP changes nonstop, thus his decision was made null and void in which case his decision was meaningless from the beginning on. how about the devs facing the consequences of THEIR bad decisions and give a respec as compensation even once? Alena Ventrallis wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: Eve has a neural remap, one free skill point (EDIT: Attribute remap) rearrange a year, why can't dusties have that for our SP? That isn't the same thing. it isnt the same thing BUT in EVE you get alot of more passive SP and a a Neural Remap can speed it up if you are focusing on something specific. you can make skill plan and take a break from the game for a month, then come back and enjoy something completely new with good amounts of SP in it. you can also buy a new character in the character bazaar if you have the isk. in dust, you have to play actively if you want to achieve something in a reasonable timeframe. I agree with you. Just pointing out they aren't the same thing. Personally, I think we need to have Eve's methods of so gain with the skill queue and neural remaps, but Thats just me.
Martyr Saboteur Amarrtyrs 17	Posted - 2013.12.24 18:23:00 - [37] - Quote No. This has Pay 2 Win written all over it. Situation: A rich guy knows there will be a large number of HAVs in the next PC match, but doesn't have enough SP into AV to take them down of scare them away. But that isn't a problem because he is rich, and can just pay a measly $100 to get proto AV with proficiency V for the PC battle. He has just paid the developers to win. Don't say someone wouldn't spent money like that even if they were rich, because they would. People have done things like this before in other games... ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQTSTALLION... I AM THE STALLION
Blind Nojoy G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 71	Posted - 2013.12.24 18:27:00 - [38] - Quote BattleCry1791 wrote: Rynoceros wrote: $100? Are you ***** stupid? On this game? Seriously, you. I already wasted enough money gaining that SP and then for some crybaby piece of to get my weapons nerfed because the server system is ** and explosive damage was the only consistency through the lag (just one example)? Eat , mother **. It's still in beta. Until these fucktards can figure out the basics of their own *** game, respecs shouldn't cost jack . Mother *** on here always act like CCP is in dire need of money, while CCP keeps opening and expanding new divisions. $100? Yeah, that and you for even suggesting it. Have you ever had a Marketing class? Do that first, then post marketing suggestions. Wow, I think I struck a nerve. Lemme guess you work, or think you're good at Marketing? Well, bub, this ain't about marketing. This is about putting a price tag on a service that will both allow for the service, but discourage it at the same time. Do you know what takes to respec an account? I don't. It may be easy, or it may take setting every tree to zero manually. Who's doing it? How much time does it take and how much are they being paid? What other duties are they not performing to do this task and how much more strategic is that task to current projects? I love "marketing guys". Too stupid to be an engineer and to much of an asshat to be in sales. The $100 dollar (US) Price tag is designed to: 1) Give CCP a fiscal incentive to do it on a regular basis. They WILL NOT do it for free on the player's schedule, only when they feel the need to do so, and it's a major headache. 2) Make it so that only either the most serious of Dust players or those with plenty of discretionary income (like me). There was already one "I don't know if I'd pay that much for a respec". What that says is that the poster of that comment wants the respec, so now we're just haggling price. Again, the price should be discouraging, hence, the higher pricetag. Also, do you know how much Money Dust has made? Is it Solvent? Is CCP taking money from EvE's profit line to invest in these other divisions? Are you their accountant? No? Oh, well in that case, you, you *** **. For an "old guy" you sure do sound a lot like a member of the "Money for nuthin" free entitlement generation. Get a haircut, hippie. Snap. Also, what's your stance on a skill refund? I really think that's gonna be their move, but TBH the best thing they could do right now is offer an optional FREE respec when all their base racial content is in place. You would probably see guys coming out of the woodwork for that. After that, I think a yearly limitation on a $100 respec is fine. Gives you a safety valve in case you got drunk one night. Or put all your SP in commando. You get all the purists with their panties/boxer briefs in a bunch, but with the way the nerf/buff hammer works around here and CCPs definition of balance, it's the only sane option. As for FOTM I think it would be discouraged because of said hammer and the price point. And this game is NOT Eve. We share the same universe but that is it.
Blind Nojoy G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 71	Posted - 2013.12.24 18:33:00 - [39] - Quote Martyr Saboteur wrote: No. This has Pay 2 Win written all over it. Situation: A rich guy knows there will be a large number of HAVs in the next PC match, but doesn't have enough SP into AV to take them down of scare them away. But that isn't a problem because he is rich, and can just pay a measly $100 to get proto AV with proficiency V for the PC battle. He has just paid the developers to win. Don't say someone wouldn't spent money like that even if they were rich, because they would. People have done things like this before in other games... If it were limited to once a year your wouldn't see this problem. Now this chucklehead is stuck with useless AV (because it is) for the next year. All because he wanted to win one laggy @ss PC battle. I'm fine with that.
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 457	Posted - 2013.12.24 18:38:00 - [40] - Quote At this point I would prefer the Eve system for SP i.e. just passive gain but without the need to have skill queue, rather it just goes to unallocated. The benefit of active play would be the SP we currently get after we cap. I can not remember what eve passive SP is but I think it is somewhere in the 50k per 24 hour range. You could even re-introduce attributes, and neural re-maps, for accelerated SP gain if you pre-assign your sp. I think the Respec issue would be less of a problem if so much of it did not come from active play. I would like a Respec but at this point I am not willing to pay for one. However, it could be limited to one every six months to a year, until all basic gear is introduced.

Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3336	Posted - 2013.12.24 19:15:00 - [41] - Quote To everyone saying the game is still in beta: Betas aren't when most of the development happens. Betas are simply to iron out all the major technical issues. So we are indeed out of beta. We used to have a time machine
CaoticFox Axis of Chaos 100	Posted - 2013.12.24 19:21:00 - [42] - Quote StoneSmasher Drugga wrote: Make it 10 or 15 bucks and we have a deal. 100 bucks is crazy. $20 minimum... $40 max... but $100... you just want to NOT give anyone a respect... and at 10-15 bucks... that's one twice a month on a McDonalds salary...
Blind Nojoy G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 71	Posted - 2013.12.24 21:33:00 - [43] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: To everyone saying the game is still in beta: Betas aren't when most of the development happens. Betas are simply to iron out all the major technical issues. So we are indeed out of beta. Agree to disagree. Still PC lag. Still frame rate issues. Have you had any fatal errors lately? I have... Is it better than it was a few months ago? Yeah,- but I would argue there are still a litany of issues, technical and core.
Jersey-Devil The Generals General Tso's Alliance 23	Posted - 2013.12.24 21:41:00 - [44] - Quote Ok, BETA might not be the "best" term for the game, how bout unfinished? Where are the 3 suites for each race? Why only 1 heavy suit to date? Why did it take so long to come out with racial rifles for all the races. We, the customers were pigeon-holed in a sense and not given the opportunity to potentially get what we wanted. Say I wanted to be a heavy, but I'm Caldari, the only heavy I can be is Ammar and use weaponry that isn't Ammar. At a minimum, once everything is introduced to the game, a respec is the least they should do. What's going to happen when the medium vehicles are introduced and the vehicle skills have to be reworked yet again......another respec for vehicle points only.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1021	Posted - 2013.12.24 22:38:00 - [45] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: To everyone saying the game is still in beta: Betas aren't when most of the development happens. Betas are simply to iron out all the major technical issues. So we are indeed out of beta. actually this game is still alpha. definition of beta is that it generally begins when the software is feature complete, aka all intended functionality of the final version, but is not yet final due to bugs, performance or stability issues. we dont even have basic racial content.
BattleCry1791 PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 285	Posted - 2013.12.24 23:18:00 - [46] - Quote Martyr Saboteur wrote: No. This has Pay 2 Win written all over it. Situation: A rich guy knows there will be a large number of HAVs in the next PC match, but doesn't have enough SP into AV to take them down of scare them away. But that isn't a problem because he is rich, and can just pay a measly $100 to get proto AV with proficiency V for the PC battle. He has just paid the developers to win. Don't say someone wouldn't spent money like that even if they were rich, because they would. People have done things like this before in other games... If this is pay to win, then so is every AUR mod on the market. In fact, those are even more so. You can pay to up your damage, shields...ANYTHING. What I'm talking about is redistributing the points you've actually earned (understand that "earned" can mean AFK farming but still...there was a controller involved). So if you think this is pay to win, then so is the ENTIRE game.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1433	Posted - 2013.12.25 00:04:00 - [47] - Quote $100 for a respec? Oh, this must be Hilmar P+¬tursson's alt. Trying for a harder 2014 bottom line, Hilmar?
BattleCry1791 PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 285	Posted - 2013.12.25 00:22:00 - [48] - Quote mollerz wrote: $100 for a respec? Oh, this must be Hilmar P+¬tursson's alt. Trying for a harder 2014 bottom line, Hilmar? Shhhhhhhhhhhh, the players are watching.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 282	Posted - 2013.12.25 04:06:00 - [49] - Quote I've already paid some for "faster" skillpoints in this game. I only see it reasonable to be able to pay for a respec.
Dericha Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2013.12.25 04:43:00 - [50] - Quote Perhaps someone mentioned this already, but the better reason than tweaks is the changes to Factional Warfare. Now choosing racially harmonious suits and weapons matter. It could be cost or PG/CPU involved. I hate the assault rifle, skilled into SRs, and now the Gallente/Minmatar, Caldari/Amarr lines matter. Bankrupting a corp is the way you win PC so weapons at 10% of the cost are a real game-changer.

Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4239	Posted - 2013.12.25 05:03:00 - [51] - Quote BattleCry1791 wrote: Oh quit your whining already. Let's just face one simple fact The Game is still in Beta. Scout and Heavy racial variants? Tanks? LAVs? Heavy guns? Dropships? Installations? Pilot Dropsuits? Player Market? When these things are all introduced, then and only then, can anyone consider the game "released". And I'd propose that 14 days after that happens, no more respecs should ever be discussed. Until that happens, let's just be honest with ourselves. A lot of guys had quit playing this game because they spec'd into X, X got nerfed, and they didn't feel like grinding/AFKing to spec into something else. I have a clan full of such players. Well, that and a bunch of players that flat out don't trust CCP to do anything right. However, the old adage of "one fix and 8 screw ups" per patch seems to have fallen by the wayside (Did all the Zipper guys get fired or does the new cruise director have it going on?). As I come back to the game after the last couple of updates I've been very pleased with the changes I've seen. Biggest problem I'm seeing is the RR. The maps lend to that weapon SO well. Not sure how to fix that to be honest. Will adding more players for the 32 vs 32 help or hurt the problem? Time will tell. However I will say that it's not OP, but working as intended. Back the $100 dollar (US) Respec. Why not just allow for a respec as the game progresses? CCP, you'll make 20 grand the first day, and that's probably conservative. With the coming FOTM's that we have yet to see...why not give players the opportunity to respec just so long as they pay through the nose? I can tell you right now, I got two toons that I'd do it for. My main is so screwed up I can't play on him anymore (my heart is Minmatar, but my playstyle is actually Gallente Logi...18mil+ SP sunk in all the wrong places). And what about all the tankers that abandoned the game that would like to come back but spec'd out of tanking and don't want to grind? CCP offers AUR versions of plenty of gear to keep players competitive as they grind up their toons, but in reality, it's all about money and "micro transactions". I know all you "purists" will come running to the thread with "NO REPECS...CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES"...and if the game was anywhere near finished or "pure" itself, I'd be inclined to agree. But it's not. In order to make an informed choice, you have to know all the variables that go into making that choice. Since we can't peer into the future of the army of "SOON"s that are yet to be, it's time to give it up and ask yourself one question. Do you want to have a playerbase? If yes, then just accept that this is still a F2P beta and player choice should trump all. No, Player choice should not trump all. Also, you want to give people with tons of money the ability to stomp on anyone who isn't willing to drop $100 to always get with the FotM build? Great way to lose the entire playerbase. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Piercing Serenity Fatal Absolution 473	Posted - 2013.12.25 05:36:00 - [52] - Quote BattleCry1791 wrote: mollerz wrote: $100 for a respec? Oh, this must be Hilmar P+¬tursson's alt. Trying for a harder 2014 bottom line, Hilmar? Shhhhhhhhhhhh, the players are watching. I think I laughed at about every post you wrote. All true to character Battle. Good to see you around DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
CaoticFox Axis of Chaos 106	Posted - 2013.12.25 05:37:00 - [53] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: To everyone saying the game is still in beta: Betas aren't when most of the development happens. Betas are simply to iron out all the major technical issues. So we are indeed out of beta. ur gonna think u have found a fan in me, but isnt this the 3rd STFU post ive made to a post of yours, in an hour?
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 144	Posted - 2013.12.25 06:40:00 - [54] - Quote CaoticFox wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: To everyone saying the game is still in beta: Betas aren't when most of the development happens. Betas are simply to iron out all the major technical issues. So we are indeed out of beta. ur gonna think u have found a fan in me, but isnt this the 3rd STFU post ive made to a post of yours, in an hour? So there is no major "technical issues" issues in this game? What game have you been playing? No no wrong buy me What version of Dust are you playing and where can I down load it ? Or yeah STFU
BattleCry1791 PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 286	Posted - 2013.12.25 15:11:00 - [55] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: No, Player choice should not trump all. Also, you want to give people with tons of money the ability to stomp on anyone who isn't willing to drop $100 to always get with the FotM build? Great way to lose the entire playerbase. Now Mobius, I remember your name from the old days and with it comes the connotation of you being someone that generally has his act together. So I'll forgo the normal marginalizing of your post by calling you hotstuff, twinkie, sparky, skippy, or junior. However, I feel the need to point something out. How does MORE player choice = LESS playerbase? And why does everyone seem to miss out on the fact that the people with tons of money have been doing exactly what you've been talking about since the beta? Anyone remember the guys from RND that used nothing but AUR gear for the first three months? how many millions of dollars of ISK do you think that saved them; that eventually went into PC coffers? Am I taking crazy pills? Three people in this thread have brought up P2W, yet NO ONE has challenged my assertion that the game is generally P2W due to the nature of AUR items. Think of ALL the things you can buy with actual real world money in this game. Better tanks, rifles, damage mods, shields, you name it, you can buy ABOVE YOUR SP LEVEL. Hell I did it. When getting ready for PC I dropped money on some Boundless HMG's because I didn't have the SP for it (went for proto forges instead). Because of the PC portion of this game there are going to be competitive players that will throw money at it in hopes of getting a win. FOTM has nothing to do with it. If you're holding 15 to 1 KDR's and paying a hundred bucks to respec then yes, you are a tryharding douche. That's not going to cover the majority of the players that want a respec. The majority of the players will want a respec because they didn't know that they (and I really mean me) completely SUCK with a combat rifle. I mean suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. I have a very with it clan member that spec'd into it as I was online and he goes "Hey, this thing isn't full auto?" He didn't read the fine print. Yes he's a moron for doing so, but if he has the cheddar (I often wonder if the Euro guys have hard times following my posts since I use so many US pop culture references?) then he gets to pay for his mistake, YET STILL ENJOY THE GAME AND THUS HE KEEPS PLAYING AND THAT KEEPS THE PLAYERBASE. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? This is easy. And lastly, since this hasn't been brought up in the thread in a while, the pay for respec's wouldn't be forever. Once all the suits, huns, tanks, dropships, and the possibly the player market (Thale's for sale....get yer fresh hot Thale's for sale) I would insert a 14 day grace period and after that, no more respecs...ever. But while the game is still in flux, the PLAYERS....you know, they guys that make the game fiscally sustainable, should be able to flux with it, Marty (sorry, couldn't resist...flux...capacitor...Marty McFly....get it?).


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