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newberries allowed to play fw yay or nay

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Mortedeamor 1057	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:14:00 - [1] - Quote fw is a mode meant to be competitive ccp designed it to give the elite player base of dust something to do other than stomp all over the poor newer players in pub matches. it has friendly fire enabled much higher risk than pubs ..and an almost guarantee that the enemy will be coordinated. it is a much higher risk situation than pubs..but also with relatively same pay..you could actually say you make less in fw than you do in pubs. a coordinated squad with high end gear is a mandatory in fw...and with the lower payout naturally this suits established mercs more than newer ones we have the gear we have the teammates we have the money so i call to question whether or not new players should be allowed to participate in fw. currently i have seen bluedots that dont even know how to cut on their mics..being told how to cut push to talk off in team chat fw. this mode is not a place to be learning the ropes..with ff on and coordinated play being mandatory. newer players in fw introduce huge issues when one side is stacked there is less of a chance you will have players on your side that can hold their own you can only control the 5 teamates you bring in with you..and with everyone having access you get 3 proto squads vs 1 proto squad with 12 bluedots randoms with no gear no money who dont know the maps, strategy, and tactics required to win, and dont have the money gear or skills to compete. i feel that allowing fw to be played by anyone in new eden is breaking fw in itself this is a mode clearly designed for the veterans and elites. ccp please enter in a mandatory point that must be achieved before fw becomes available to a dust merc. this line should be much higher than the graduation for the newberry academy. players entering fw should have all the things ive described here..and to play fw without those thing i can only imagine is a miserable exp. any idea on what this line should be? i think it should be a sp line as sp is something that can only be accumulated so fast..someone whos played dust enough to get so much as 10 mill sp has the skills and in game knowledge if not the gear to compete in fw ideas suggestions discuss closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
CRYPT3C W0LF Null-Sec Operations 98	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:15:00 - [2] - Quote nay, Ima horse Assuming Direct Control Youtube Channel
Mortedeamor 1057	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:18:00 - [3] - Quote CRYPT3C W0LF wrote: nay, Ima horse i second that nay for all the reasons i listed here closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 189	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:27:00 - [4] - Quote I would suggest a lower limit, something like 2-5 million Skill Points. I don't think it would be fair to rule out new players completely, but once they're over a million in they've likely got at least the basics down and FW would actually be a good place for people to find Corps and get organised.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2419	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:28:00 - [5] - Quote Yes, but only if brought in by squad. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 88	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:29:00 - [6] - Quote of course they should
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4879	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:29:00 - [7] - Quote I'm a majestic cat. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Mortedeamor 1058	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:29:00 - [8] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: I would suggest a lower limit, something like 2-5 million Skill Points. I don't think it would be fair to rule out new players completely, but once they're over a million in they've likely got at least the basics down and FW would actually be a good place for people to find Corps and get organised. 2-5 is reasonable its been so long since i was a newberry i couldnt honestly tell you at what point i felt confident in my knowledge and skills in dust and is why i feel discussion is needed i have no idea what the new player exp is like nowadays i dont run alts unlike most vets closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Mortedeamor 1058	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:31:00 - [9] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Yes, but only if brought in by squad. as brought in by a squad leader who is qualifyed for fw i personally like this idea like you shouldnt be able to que in alone unless your over a certain sp limit but anyone can be pulled in by a higher memeber this in itself would cut out most of the issues with fw while not eliminating blue dots ability to play and exp it early on great idea thor +1 what do you think the line for being able to both pull underlings in and que alone should be? ive heard 2-5 mill sp so far closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Mortedeamor 1058	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:32:00 - [10] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I'm a majestic cat. ura flea ridden fur ball that needs to be made into chinese food closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy

Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 927	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:34:00 - [11] - Quote FW in EVE was designed for the new player to jump right into ready made fighting with some tangible rewards before they might move on to something totally player made. It is the same for DUST. Pub matches are total casual mode in addition to being an introductory mode. Pubs would be like cruising around in EVE looking for random fights with no predefined structure. Ah well, console players. Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 2284	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:35:00 - [12] - Quote Nay, it's so damn annoying having 10 useless blueberries vs 2-3 squads of people in player corps. When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE! nú+
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2420	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:37:00 - [13] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Yes, but only if brought in by squad. as brought in by a squad leader who is qualifyed for fw i personally like this idea like you shouldnt be able to que in alone unless your over a certain sp limit but anyone can be pulled in by a higher memeber this in itself would cut out most of the issues with fw while not eliminating blue dots ability to play and exp it early on great idea thor +1 what do you think the line for being able to both pull underlings in and que alone should be? ive heard 2-5 mill sp so far I think it should be higher. Perhaps 10 mil SP to be able to que a squad in for FW. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Mortedeamor 1058	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:38:00 - [14] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Nay, it's so damn annoying having 10 useless blueberries vs 2-3 squads of people in player corps. exactly and we can only control the 5 people we bring in. i feel if it were limited in the way thor suggested above it would drastically lower those instances where you have 10 useless bluedots on your side closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Mortedeamor 1059	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:39:00 - [15] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Yes, but only if brought in by squad. as brought in by a squad leader who is qualifyed for fw i personally like this idea like you shouldnt be able to que in alone unless your over a certain sp limit but anyone can be pulled in by a higher memeber this in itself would cut out most of the issues with fw while not eliminating blue dots ability to play and exp it early on great idea thor +1 what do you think the line for being able to both pull underlings in and que alone should be? ive heard 2-5 mill sp so far I think it should be higher. Perhaps 10 mil SP to be able to que a squad in for FW. i agree +1 closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Jack Kittinger DUST University Ivy League 72	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:40:00 - [16] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Yes, but only if brought in by squad. Factional Warfare contracts require you to be in a squad. after multiple attempts you wanna solo? here have a pub match
Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven 2100	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:54:00 - [17] - Quote There should be a required SP amount, but 10M would cut away a huge part of the playerbase... Also with such a high requirement you would lose a lot of capable players, I started being confident at 2.5M and I joined O.H when I had around 7M. I have 10.7M right now and I completely forgot of when I was a useless bluedot. 100% Achura "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Defy Gravity Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 162	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:55:00 - [18] - Quote FW should be unlocked after you have earned 5mil Life Time SP Amarr FW Supporter. "I will melt you with my scrambler rifle Minmatar filth!"
RECON BY FIRE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 329	Posted - 2013.12.22 17:00:00 - [19] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: FW in EVE was designed for the new player to jump right into ready made fighting with some tangible rewards before they might move on to something totally player made. That's why you have to gain standing for that particular faction before doing FW in EVE right, because its made for noobs? Switching factions when you can roll lvl 4s as a vet is easy, but a newbie trying to first gain entry to it, not so much. And that grind helps teach the noobs how their ships work. There is no such equivalent in Dust. Stuff....?
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1322	Posted - 2013.12.22 17:06:00 - [20] - Quote Naaay mother freaking NAAAAAY!!!!! "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2020	Posted - 2013.12.22 17:10:00 - [21] - Quote No Intelligence is OP
Lt Royal Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2220	Posted - 2013.12.22 17:23:00 - [22] - Quote IMO there's 2 main problems here; No Squads (no one is in them) The FW selection mechanics (for new players) No Squads I fight for Caldari and I this I see for the majority of contracts; your squad will be the only squad for the whole team and everyone else will running solo, not that they have chosen to run solo but they don't know any better or how competitive FW is supposed to be. I think anyone NOT in a squad searching for FW matches should be automatically shoved into squads or sort one out in the warbarge before they can deploy; if more blueberries were to be in a squad I really do think the FW imbalanced would be lesser of a problem. FW selection mechanics When you start a new account; all the factions are selected by default, meaning new players will be fighting for anyone who has a free slot open (for the team,) rather than fighting the ideology their race represents. Seeing how everyone running for Minmatar and Gallente are purposefully fighting for them for; the LP items or because they have EVE support, the newberries are just getting dumped into Amarr and Caldari contracts because there is no room for them to join the Gallente/Minmatar contracts. In conclusion. I don't think there should be a SP entry amount for FW contracts but the tutorial system needs to be expanded to explain the motions of each contract types. Let say they have completed this new bigger FW focused tutorial system; where upon completion they would gain a medal, certificated or cookie (whatever you want to call it) they then will be able to join a FW contract because their cert means they have learned the basics of the FW system etc. Edit: You could even go as far to have NPC agents to talk to in this tutorial system, to show off what each racial LP store has to offer or have recruitment booths to join a said FW corp, choosing a side will gain you an automatic standing increase for the chosen faction and a standing loss for the faction your now at war with. Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Subdreddit Recruitment Video Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
Zaria Min Deir Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 358	Posted - 2013.12.22 17:24:00 - [23] - Quote My personal preference: yes, there should be a restriction on who can enter FW, whether it be a minimum total SP or WP earned, or some combination of both... 10M SP is much too high though, something between 2 and 5 M would be more reasonable, maybe depending on the WP earned by the character. And I think WP should be considered, there are plenty of characters out there that have been "cooking" for months, with millions earned in passive SP with barely any game time (and I'm not just talking about alts of the "vets" here). The idea about solo deployment being restricted, but being able to be pulled in by a squad leader is a good one, even though I see some problems with that too... you want to troll the "organized" proto squads being all tryhard in FW? Wander through a couple of pubs, pick up a squad full of newberries, and deploy them into FW... sit back and watch the mayhem Whether these restrictions would be overall harmful to the community or contradict the idea behind the game mode... well. What do I know (or care), I'm just a stupid console player. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Mortedeamor 1060	Posted - 2013.12.22 17:26:00 - [24] - Quote Lt Royal wrote: IMO there's 2 main problems here; No Squads (no one is in them) The FW selection mechanics (for new players) No Squads I fight for Caldari and this I see for the majority of contracts; your squad will be the only squad for the whole team and everyone else will be running solo, not that they have chosen to run solo but they don't know any better or how competitive FW is supposed to be. I think anyone NOT in a squad searching for FW matches should be automatically shoved into squads or must sort one out in the warbarge before they can deploy into the match; if more blueberries were to be in a squad I really do think the FW imbalanced would be lesser of a problem. FW selection mechanics When you start a new account; all the factions are selected by default, meaning new players will be fighting for anyone who has a free slot open (for the team,) rather than fighting the ideology their race represents. Seeing how everyone running for Minmatar and Gallente are purposefully fighting for them for; the LP items or because they have EVE support, the newberries are just getting dumped into Amarr and Caldari contracts because there is no room for them to join the Gallente/Minmatar contracts. In conclusion. I don't think there should be a SP entry amount for FW contracts but the tutorial system needs to be expanded to explain the motions of each contract types. Let say they have completed this new bigger FW focused tutorial system; where upon completion they would gain a medal, certificated or cookie (whatever you want to call it) they then will be able to join a FW contract because their cert means they have learned the basics of the FW system etc. Edit: You could even go as far to have NPC agents to talk to in this tutorial system, to show off what each racial LP store has to offer or have recruitment booths to join a said FW corp, choosing a side will gain you an automatic standing increase for the chosen faction and a standing loss for the faction your now at war with. so long as this tutorial were not justs skippable i could agree closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation 491	Posted - 2013.12.22 17:28:00 - [25] - Quote I guess they should but only from a squad of pros, i hate seeing ton of blueberries in my team and i'm just getting stomped. *Assassination is my thing.*
Lt Royal Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2220	Posted - 2013.12.22 17:35:00 - [26] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: so long as this tutorial were not justs skippable i could agree Lets say it could be skippable but if one was to skip it, it would then be added to the battle finder where the FW contracts are selected; making it be a completed requirement to run FW. Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Subdreddit Recruitment Video Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4898	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:35:00 - [27] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I'm a majestic cat. ura flea ridden fur ball that needs to be made into chinese food I eat Chinese people. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Llast 326 An Arkhos 934	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:45:00 - [28] - Quote I play a lot of FW, before the LP store it was all I played. Limiting who can play FW is not a good idea. The belief that eliminating low experienced players from FW will increase the likelihood of better battles is a bit misleading. The imbalance is less about the "quality" of players and more about who players decide to fight for. If you eliminate the portion of players under 5mil sp who chose to play FW, what happens when you have your full squad of "elite players" against a full team of "elite players"? Perhaps using the opportunity to recruit and teach new players in FW is a better idea than limiting them to Pubs. FW is designed for lower SP charactersGÇª look at the benefits of the LP store. Yes the 'Specialist' gear has lower fitting cost which is great for those of us trying to fit better gear on our suits, but the majority of the gear benefits from lower skill requirements. For those with less SP spent this is huge, it allows them access to better gear, and the ability to test out what they want to spend their low levels of sp on. FW should remain available to all players as it is intended to be. The issue that needs to be addressed is getting the numbers up in Factions that need larger player pools, and perhaps some of the experienced players need to start teaching the newer players about the game. I know that there is a number of groups that do this already, but perhaps FW learning groups need to become prevalent. KRRROOOOOOM
Mortedeamor 1061	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:34:00 - [29] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: I play a lot of FW, before the LP store it was all I played. Limiting who can play FW is not a good idea. The belief that eliminating low experienced players from FW will increase the likelihood of better battles is a bit misleading. The imbalance is less about the "quality" of players and more about who players decide to fight for. If you eliminate the portion of players under 5mil sp who chose to play FW, what happens when you have your full squad of "elite players" against a full team of "elite players"? Perhaps using the opportunity to recruit and teach new players in FW is a better idea than limiting them to Pubs. FW is designed for lower SP charactersGÇª look at the benefits of the LP store. Yes the 'Specialist' gear has lower fitting cost which is great for those of us trying to fit better gear on our suits, but the majority of the gear benefits from lower skill requirements. For those with less SP spent this is huge, it allows them access to better gear, and the ability to test out what they want to spend their low levels of sp on. FW should remain available to all players as it is intended to be. The issue that needs to be addressed is getting the numbers up in Factions that need larger player pools, and perhaps some of the experienced players need to start teaching the newer players about the game. I know that there is a number of groups that do this already, but perhaps FW learning groups need to become prevalent. how is fw designed for lower players you make less money in fw..and you lose more its competitive i disagree with everything you've said here closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Mortedeamor 1061	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:35:00 - [30] - Quote Lt Royal wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: so long as this tutorial were not justs skippable i could agree Lets say it could be skippable but if one was to skip it, it would then be added to the battle finder where the FW contracts are selected; making it be a completed requirement to run FW. i dont even think the tutorial would help im sick of going against 3 proto squads with my guys and 10 newbies they cant kill ****..unless it's their teamates and all they do is hold everyone back.. closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy

ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 730	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:41:00 - [31] - Quote What defines a newberry? Then i'd go from there. CCP, Geth Infiltrator is OP! plz nerf.
Darius Ashran Bragian Order Amarr Empire 30	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:46:00 - [32] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I'm a majestic cat. Not Possible. But to the point No they should not be in FW at all imo until they have at least X time in the game. Maybe a month or so. I don't think and SP limit is wise for faction warfare entry. I think we can all agree just getting SP does not mean they have a clue what they are doing. If we had better corp finding mechanics for a nub like the EVE Online advertisement system. Then I would say only have players in player corps fighting for faction warfare. As an easy entry into proper organized play. Until that at least a few weeks or a month time limit to let them get some real experience. ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: What defines a newberry? Then i'd go from there. In my opinion? Less then 4 million SP which is roughly 2 months and change. Just enough to get some decent gear and weapons and a firm bit of experience .
Mortedeamor 1061	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:51:00 - [33] - Quote Darius Ashran wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I'm a majestic cat. Not Possible. But to the point No they should not be in FW at all imo until they have at least X time in the game. Maybe a month or so. I don't think and SP limit is wise for faction warfare entry. I think we can all agree just getting SP does not mean they have a clue what they are doing. If we had better corp finding mechanics for a nub like the EVE Online advertisement system. Then I would say only have players in player corps fighting for faction warfare. As an easy entry into proper organized play. Until that at least a few weeks or a month time limit to let them get some real experience. ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: What defines a newberry? Then i'd go from there. In my opinion? Less then 4 million SP which is roughly 2 months and change. Just enough to get some decent gear and weapons and a firm bit of experience . 2-5 mill sp for fw would cut down on the newbies in fw for sure like i said yesterday i actually saw someone receiving instructions mid battle on how to cut his mic on..i mean common u havnt been playing the game long enough to figure out how to cut ur mic on u should NOT be in fw.. closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
T'orq DUST University Ivy League 59	Posted - 2013.12.22 20:02:00 - [34] - Quote Why do Sp, why not waypoints? Make it so you have to have at least 200000 waypoints before you can join FW solo. And any can join with a squad leader that meets that requirement. Thanjac- Proud Member of Commando 6 Commando Lives
Demon Buddah N3PH1L1M 103	Posted - 2013.12.22 21:11:00 - [35] - Quote Yes they should be. It should be their decision to go into something like that. When they see just how hard it really is, then they can move back to a pub match. I just wish that CCP would make something for the new players, I made an alt to just mess around with. After one match. i was already facing guys with proto gear. CCP needs to put something for the new players they have nothing and it's so frustrating getting stomped. Whether it be a longer academy, or PVE (please). This game can never grow if we don't have new players. I've tried introducing my friends to this game and none of them want to play because it's always a stomp for them.
crazy space 1 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 2119	Posted - 2013.12.22 21:17:00 - [36] - Quote Full squads only for factional Warfare. Pay out LP based on squads total average WP only. make instant battle solo only. Time to make random squads before the match. Auto kicked from squad, but you can access players in your squad in past battle tab.
THE DRiZZLE AQUA TEEN KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Legacy Rising 133	Posted - 2013.12.22 21:18:00 - [37] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: fw is a mode meant to be competitive ccp designed it to give the elite player base of dust something to do other than stomp all over the poor newer players in pub matches. it has friendly fire enabled much higher risk than pubs ..and an almost guarantee that the enemy will be coordinated. it is a much higher risk situation than pubs..but also with relatively same pay..you could actually say you make less in fw than you do in pubs. a coordinated squad with high end gear is a mandatory in fw...and with the lower payout naturally this suits established mercs more than newer ones we have the gear we have the teammates we have the money so i call to question whether or not new players should be allowed to participate in fw. currently i have seen bluedots that dont even know how to cut on their mics..being told how to cut push to talk off in team chat fw. this mode is not a place to be learning the ropes..with ff on and coordinated play being mandatory. newer players in fw introduce huge issues when one side is stacked there is less of a chance you will have players on your side that can hold their own you can only control the 5 teamates you bring in with you..and with everyone having access you get 3 proto squads vs 1 proto squad with 10 bluedots randoms with no gear no money who dont know the maps, strategy, and tactics required to win, and dont have the money gear or skills to compete. i feel that allowing fw to be played by anyone in new eden is breaking fw in itself this is a mode clearly designed for the veterans and elites. ccp please enter in a mandatory point that must be achieved before fw becomes available to a dust merc. this line should be much higher than the graduation for the newberry academy. players entering fw should have all the things ive described here..and to play fw without those thing i can only imagine is a miserable exp. any idea on what this line should be? i think it should be a sp line as sp is something that can only be accumulated so fast..someone whos played dust enough to get so much as 10 mill sp has the skills and in game knowledge if not the gear to compete in fw ideas suggestions discuss Yay a reverse of academy Forum jail bird next offence 6 month sentence.
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 177	Posted - 2013.12.22 21:34:00 - [38] - Quote Whether they should or shouldn't be able to participate in FW is something I could care less about. They should definitely be made more aware of the differences between FW and pubs though. I'm sure the majority of them have no idea of the differences. Wasting the little ISK they have in FW to not receive any in return and have no idea, nor have any idea how to use LP in the market, which still requires ISK. The only real reason I could see an SP minimum put on FW is to stop people from making alts and awoxing. I fight for all factions, majority Caldari, and awoxing seems to appear in all factions, not just the ones that are winning. Awoxing is a cheap tactic, I'd like to see Caldari win more but not because of incompetent players TK'ing and suiciding on the enemy team.
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 394	Posted - 2013.12.22 21:35:00 - [39] - Quote It should be accessable to noobs, why else would we have 'neo' equivelents? However there should be things to keep complete asshats and idiots from entering. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 379	Posted - 2013.12.22 21:52:00 - [40] - Quote Fair is fair--if you're going to segregate the newer players from the older ones by implementing a SP limit for certain modes, you damn sure better implement modes that will keep the older players from stomping throughout the modes that you're restricting the new players to. All of this talk about FW as a "squad-only" mode is complete B.S. You already have PC, now you want to make two out of the three available modes unplayable to the majority of the user base? Life is killing me.

KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3457	Posted - 2013.12.22 21:58:00 - [41] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: fw is a mode meant to be competitive ccp designed it to give the elite player base of dust something to do other than stomp all over the poor newer players in pub matches. it has friendly fire enabled much higher risk than pubs ..and an almost guarantee that the enemy will be coordinated. it is a much higher risk situation than pubs..but also with relatively same pay..you could actually say you make less in fw than you do in pubs. a coordinated squad with high end gear is a mandatory in fw...and with the lower payout naturally this suits established mercs more than newer ones we have the gear we have the teammates we have the money so i call to question whether or not new players should be allowed to participate in fw. currently i have seen bluedots that dont even know how to cut on their mics..being told how to cut push to talk off in team chat fw. this mode is not a place to be learning the ropes..with ff on and coordinated play being mandatory. newer players in fw introduce huge issues when one side is stacked there is less of a chance you will have players on your side that can hold their own you can only control the 5 teamates you bring in with you..and with everyone having access you get 3 proto squads vs 1 proto squad with 10 bluedots randoms with no gear no money who dont know the maps, strategy, and tactics required to win, and dont have the money gear or skills to compete. i feel that allowing fw to be played by anyone in new eden is breaking fw in itself this is a mode clearly designed for the veterans and elites. ccp please enter in a mandatory point that must be achieved before fw becomes available to a dust merc. this line should be much higher than the graduation for the newberry academy. players entering fw should have all the things ive described here..and to play fw without those thing i can only imagine is a miserable exp. any idea on what this line should be? i think it should be a sp line as sp is something that can only be accumulated so fast..someone whos played dust enough to get so much as 10 mill sp has the skills and in game knowledge if not the gear to compete in fw ideas suggestions discuss NO. Newberries should stick to Public matches. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Bunny Demon Scions of Athra 33	Posted - 2013.12.22 22:22:00 - [42] - Quote 5 million sp limit to fw Donate isk to the guy above ^ (Or me, whichever you prefer)
Spectre-M The Generals General Tso's Alliance 146	Posted - 2013.12.22 22:26:00 - [43] - Quote Maybe when you launch the FW finder, it prompts a warning along the lines of "'Are you sure you want to deploy without a squad?". It helps to have more layers of suggestion to point people in the right direction. Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist Minnmatar in Amarr Armor I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
Llast 326 An Arkhos 937	Posted - 2013.12.22 22:28:00 - [44] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Llast 326 wrote: I play a lot of FW, before the LP store it was all I played. Limiting who can play FW is not a good idea. The belief that eliminating low experienced players from FW will increase the likelihood of better battles is a bit misleading. The imbalance is less about the "quality" of players and more about who players decide to fight for. If you eliminate the portion of players under 5mil sp who chose to play FW, what happens when you have your full squad of "elite players" against a full team of "elite players"? Perhaps using the opportunity to recruit and teach new players in FW is a better idea than limiting them to Pubs. FW is designed for lower SP charactersGÇª look at the benefits of the LP store. Yes the 'Specialist' gear has lower fitting cost which is great for those of us trying to fit better gear on our suits, but the majority of the gear benefits from lower skill requirements. For those with less SP spent this is huge, it allows them access to better gear, and the ability to test out what they want to spend their low levels of sp on. FW should remain available to all players as it is intended to be. The issue that needs to be addressed is getting the numbers up in Factions that need larger player pools, and perhaps some of the experienced players need to start teaching the newer players about the game. I know that there is a number of groups that do this already, but perhaps FW learning groups need to become prevalent. how is fw designed for lower players you make less money in fw..and you lose more its competitive i disagree with everything you've said here I am sure you don't agree with me, you are viewing this as a competitive environment and I am not. In the Dev blog about the FW changes CCP stated that they wanted people to have to play both Pubs and FW, this was one of the reasons for no isk in FW. This does not mean new players can't play FW, it does not mean that it is an isk sink, though it can be for those of us who have more isk than we need. What it does mean is that people have different rewards for different play modes. Not really sure how no isk payout makes it competitive, I just don't see the line of reasoning there. As I already stated much of the LP rewards are more beneficial for lower SP players than for higher SP players. This does not mean those with high SP may not want to try out new gear through the use of LP gear, but the benefits are greater for those with less SP. Would you care to explain how you disagree with this? People are free to chose the mode they want to play, and how they want to play, overall what your OP states is that you want people to play the way you want them to play. You would like more control over what other people are doing, by restricting their choices. Correct me if I am wrong on that. KRRROOOOOOM
Mortedeamor 1064	Posted - 2013.12.23 02:13:00 - [45] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Llast 326 wrote: I play a lot of FW, before the LP store it was all I played. Limiting who can play FW is not a good idea. The belief that eliminating low experienced players from FW will increase the likelihood of better battles is a bit misleading. The imbalance is less about the "quality" of players and more about who players decide to fight for. If you eliminate the portion of players under 5mil sp who chose to play FW, what happens when you have your full squad of "elite players" against a full team of "elite players"? Perhaps using the opportunity to recruit and teach new players in FW is a better idea than limiting them to Pubs. FW is designed for lower SP charactersGÇª look at the benefits of the LP store. Yes the 'Specialist' gear has lower fitting cost which is great for those of us trying to fit better gear on our suits, but the majority of the gear benefits from lower skill requirements. For those with less SP spent this is huge, it allows them access to better gear, and the ability to test out what they want to spend their low levels of sp on. FW should remain available to all players as it is intended to be. The issue that needs to be addressed is getting the numbers up in Factions that need larger player pools, and perhaps some of the experienced players need to start teaching the newer players about the game. I know that there is a number of groups that do this already, but perhaps FW learning groups need to become prevalent. how is fw designed for lower players you make less money in fw..and you lose more its competitive i disagree with everything you've said here I am sure you don't agree with me, you are viewing this as a competitive environment and I am not. In the Dev blog about the FW changes CCP stated that they wanted people to have to play both Pubs and FW, this was one of the reasons for no isk in FW. This does not mean new players can't play FW, it does not mean that it is an isk sink, though it can be for those of us who have more isk than we need. What it does mean is that people have different rewards for different play modes. Not really sure how no isk payout makes it competitive, I just don't see the line of reasoning there. As I already stated much of the LP rewards are more beneficial for lower SP players than for higher SP players. This does not mean those with high SP may not want to try out new gear through the use of LP gear, but the benefits are greater for those with less SP. Would you care to explain how you disagree with this? People are free to chose the mode they want to play, and how they want to play, overall what your OP states is that you want people to play the way you want them to play. You would like more control over what other people are doing, by restricting their choices. Correct me if I am wrong on that. firstly explain how this lp system suits lower players? ans secondly no i dont want to control how people play i would merely like to be able to control the quality of player i am forced to work with there is a huge difference closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Mortedeamor 1064	Posted - 2013.12.23 02:14:00 - [46] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: fw is a mode meant to be competitive ccp designed it to give the elite player base of dust something to do other than stomp all over the poor newer players in pub matches. it has friendly fire enabled much higher risk than pubs ..and an almost guarantee that the enemy will be coordinated. it is a much higher risk situation than pubs..but also with relatively same pay..you could actually say you make less in fw than you do in pubs. a coordinated squad with high end gear is a mandatory in fw...and with the lower payout naturally this suits established mercs more than newer ones we have the gear we have the teammates we have the money so i call to question whether or not new players should be allowed to participate in fw. currently i have seen bluedots that dont even know how to cut on their mics..being told how to cut push to talk off in team chat fw. this mode is not a place to be learning the ropes..with ff on and coordinated play being mandatory. newer players in fw introduce huge issues when one side is stacked there is less of a chance you will have players on your side that can hold their own you can only control the 5 teamates you bring in with you..and with everyone having access you get 3 proto squads vs 1 proto squad with 10 bluedots randoms with no gear no money who dont know the maps, strategy, and tactics required to win, and dont have the money gear or skills to compete. i feel that allowing fw to be played by anyone in new eden is breaking fw in itself this is a mode clearly designed for the veterans and elites. ccp please enter in a mandatory point that must be achieved before fw becomes available to a dust merc. this line should be much higher than the graduation for the newberry academy. players entering fw should have all the things ive described here..and to play fw without those thing i can only imagine is a miserable exp. any idea on what this line should be? i think it should be a sp line as sp is something that can only be accumulated so fast..someone whos played dust enough to get so much as 10 mill sp has the skills and in game knowledge if not the gear to compete in fw ideas suggestions discuss NO. Newberries should stick to Public matches. +1 i love how all the veterans agree that new players should not be allowed in fw but all the new players try and argue and say that fw is meant for them. closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
fawkuima juggalo Eternal Beings 288	Posted - 2013.12.23 02:42:00 - [47] - Quote nay...... and for the sake of organization may i suggest you add the names on a list according to "yay" or "nay".... or tally the votes some how so its easy to come back and see how many there are, i think this is a great post though and more posts should be organized to a voting poll of some sort...... i think ccp would like that but i know i really would. ---OFFICIAL LOGISTICS REGISTRY BOARD/ H.O.F.----
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2416	Posted - 2013.12.23 02:44:00 - [48] - Quote No. They hardly understand what they are doing in battle during academy. So why allow them access into a serious competitive game mode? It's hurting towards the serious players and souring the taste in the newbies mouth even more. I say set some point where the option becomes available, after they are seasoned just a little bit. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Mortedeamor 1064	Posted - 2013.12.23 02:44:00 - [49] - Quote fawkuima juggalo wrote: nay...... and for the sake of organization may i suggest you add the names on a list according to "yay" or "nay".... or tally the votes some how so its easy to come back and see how many there are, i think this is a great post though and more posts should be organized to a voting poll of some sort...... i think ccp would like that but i know i really would. i will actually do this thank you for the suggestion sorry i have not been as active as i usually am on my threads folk ive hada lot of xmas parties this weekend and between those and getting ready for those i have not had the time..to check my threads i will do a tally real quick before bed and add it to the original post closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 479	Posted - 2013.12.23 02:45:00 - [50] - Quote Well just look at Caldari. They get battered consistently. My corp took a squad / squad n half into a match fighting for Caldari and we were literally the only players in the match fighting. We fought valiantly but ultimately we were battered. P.S Sp has nothing to do with it, limiting opponents will not help either. It needs to be stated that team work and co-ordination is needed in FW. Besides, the teams are totally stacked against the Caldari and to a lesser extent, the Amarr as far as ~I am aware. Make the loyalty point stores actually have nice shiny items in there that everyone wants and you might see some fair fighting.

fawkuima juggalo Eternal Beings 288	Posted - 2013.12.23 02:52:00 - [51] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: fawkuima juggalo wrote: nay...... and for the sake of organization may i suggest you add the names on a list according to "yay" or "nay".... or tally the votes some how so its easy to come back and see how many there are, i think this is a great post though and more posts should be organized to a voting poll of some sort...... i think ccp would like that but i know i really would. i will actually do this thank you for the suggestion sorry i have not been as active as i usually am on my threads folk ive hada lot of xmas parties this weekend and between those and getting ready for those i have not had the time..to check my threads i will do a tally real quick before bed and add it to the original post *thumbs up. ---OFFICIAL LOGISTICS REGISTRY BOARD/ H.O.F.----
Mortedeamor 1066	Posted - 2013.12.23 02:54:00 - [52] - Quote fawkuima juggalo wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: fawkuima juggalo wrote: nay...... and for the sake of organization may i suggest you add the names on a list according to "yay" or "nay".... or tally the votes some how so its easy to come back and see how many there are, i think this is a great post though and more posts should be organized to a voting poll of some sort...... i think ccp would like that but i know i really would. i will actually do this thank you for the suggestion sorry i have not been as active as i usually am on my threads folk ive hada lot of xmas parties this weekend and between those and getting ready for those i have not had the time..to check my threads i will do a tally real quick before bed and add it to the original post *thumbs up. we are looking at a 3/1 ratio for limiting and controlling newer players access to fw in some way closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2418	Posted - 2013.12.23 02:59:00 - [53] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Well just look at Caldari. They get battered consistently. My corp took a squad / squad n half into a match fighting for Caldari and we were literally the only players in the match fighting. We fought valiantly but ultimately we were battered. P.S Sp has nothing to do with it, limiting opponents will not help either. It needs to be stated that team work and co-ordination is needed in FW. Besides, the teams are totally stacked against the Caldari and to a lesser extent, the Amarr as far as ~I am aware. Make the loyalty point stores actually have nice shiny items in there that everyone wants and you might see some fair fighting. It so frustrating. You need to go into the Cal FW with at least two squads (it seems if we try to q-sync three, we get thrown in different matches) to make any sort of impact. And don't let them get "socked in the mouths" real hard. They will retreat to the redline. Sit there and snipe. Now the map looks like its got freckles because you see red dots all over the place hunting separately since they have no respect for the team. To the teamwork thing, I don't know how many times me and squadmates try speaking on the comms. Hell, we are normally on team chat, hoping someone catches on. They don't. They play it like its freaking COD. I think SP matters here because the caliber of players you see here will be even more proto'd out than a pub match. A slaughter in FW hurts more because its almost like a PC battle. You don't make ISK. LP really means squat to a new player who is broke already. LOL you might want to re-read my post and make sure you like it, Just edited. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Mortedeamor 1067	Posted - 2013.12.23 03:06:00 - [54] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Well just look at Caldari. They get battered consistently. My corp took a squad / squad n half into a match fighting for Caldari and we were literally the only players in the match fighting. We fought valiantly but ultimately we were battered. P.S Sp has nothing to do with it, limiting opponents will not help either. It needs to be stated that team work and co-ordination is needed in FW. Besides, the teams are totally stacked against the Caldari and to a lesser extent, the Amarr as far as ~I am aware. Make the loyalty point stores actually have nice shiny items in there that everyone wants and you might see some fair fighting. It so frustrating. You need to go into the Cal FW with at least two squads (it seems if we try to q-sync three, we get thrown in different matches) to make any sort of impact. And don't let them get "socked in the mouths" real hard. They will retreat to the redline. Sit there and snipe. Now the map looks like its got freckles because you see red dots all over the place hunting separately since they have no respect for the team. To the teamwork thing, I don't know how many times me and squadmates try speaking on the comms. Hell, we are normally on team chat, hoping someone catches on. They don't. They play it like its freaking COD. I think SP matters here because the caliber of players you see here will be even more proto'd out than a pub match. A slaughter in FW hurts more because its almost like a PC battle. You don't make ISK. LP really means squat to a new player who is broke already. LOL you might want to re-read my post and make sure you like it, Just edited. no i dont need to reread it i feel sp makes a difference in pc for the same reason you stated..when your in pc and your facing off vs all 25 mill sp or higher people do you bring in fresh recruits and hope to do anything but lose clones? no because it would be financial suicide...in fw we dont have a choice but make financial suicide i can only be gratefull we dont have to pay for fw clones... also i agree with you on lp if you look at cat mercs thread on lp payout you will find that fw pays less with much higher risk so realistically the worst thing a newer player can do is play fw closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
bear90211 Nyain San Renegade Alliance 140	Posted - 2013.12.23 03:11:00 - [55] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I'm a majestic cat. ura flea ridden fur ball that needs to be made into chinese food I lol'ed so hard at this. PERFECT COMEBACK :D:D:D:D Heavies are still squishy to my AR, just 5 rounds into them extra ;D hmm, I want taco's...
Llast 326 An Arkhos 940	Posted - 2013.12.23 03:39:00 - [56] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: +1 i love how all the veterans agree that new players should not be allowed in fw but all the new players try and argue and say that fw is meant for them. lol KRRROOOOOOM
One Eyed King Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2013.12.23 03:47:00 - [57] - Quote I was under the understanding that FW was a chance for players to experience something that has a little more meaning than traditional battles, with PC being the place where "elites" can go if they want to. Secondly, if public matches are where new players should play, why is there so much pub/protostomping? As it stands, FW discourages protostomping because of the poor LP payouts and the non existant isk payouts. If a new player were looking for somewhere to go and find fewer proto suits, it seems that FW would be the best option at this point. Until there is PvE or another game mode that uses only militia fits or has a reasonable upward limit of SP (which I think most people would agree is not the case for the academy as it seems to low), I don't see why you should complain about newberries playing in FW. If you think your factionaly blueberries aren't up to snuff, maybe take some time and give them a few pointers, or politely suggest places like Dust University who would gladly help. Or not, and you could continue being a douche. Its up to you. Nova knifing scout masochist. I would be a sadist, but CCP won't let me.
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 199	Posted - 2013.12.23 04:21:00 - [58] - Quote nay 1.7 HMG hotfix works great. Now for more Heavy suits or guns soonGäó
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2420	Posted - 2013.12.23 04:34:00 - [59] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: I was under the understanding that FW was a chance for players to experience something that has a little more meaning than traditional battles, with PC being the place where "elites" can go if they want to. Secondly, if public matches are where new players should play, why is there so much pub/protostomping? As it stands, FW discourages protostomping because of the poor LP payouts and the non existant isk payouts. If a new player were looking for somewhere to go and find fewer proto suits, it seems that FW would be the best option at this point. Until there is PvE or another game mode that uses only militia fits or has a reasonable upward limit of SP (which I think most people would agree is not the case for the academy as it seems to low), I don't see why you should complain about newberries playing in FW. If you think your factionaly blueberries aren't up to snuff, maybe take some time and give them a few pointers, or politely suggest places like Dust University who would gladly help. Or not, and you could continue being a douche. Its up to you. Yes I agree, it is an alternative to pub matches. But what jars the picture is that you have many serious corps from PC taking to FW. So it kind of stomps all over that theory. Also, you have people who take that game mode just as seriously as a PC match. Then you have a noob who is being absolutely casual in their approach which is affecting the team's strategy. I don't think anybody is being a douche by just expressing the truth. I rather have the truth instead of "if you don't have something nice to say..." expression being thrown out there. The reality of the situation is that the majority of blueberries wouldn't take your advice even if you spoon fed it to them. People don't like losing most of the time. So when you're facing an uphill battle and you got a guy saying "we need to take the CRU by Baker in order to have a chance", its often met with the same sentiment you have about some guys who stated their opinions...that they're being a douche. Hopefully we can work this out somehow though. I play for Caldari and this thread speaks in volumes because of what I experienced. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 322	Posted - 2013.12.23 04:41:00 - [60] - Quote let the newbs in! this is new eden isn't it? let them die and learn to go to pubs i know i was well accumulated to this game at 750k sp about a week and plus maybe i want my enemies to be polluted with terrible blueberries "May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace" - Second Corinthians chapter one verse two.

deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 322	Posted - 2013.12.23 04:50:00 - [61] - Quote side note what if one sided matches are solely due to racial imbalances with armor being better here gallente obviously beat caldari unless im playing of course "May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace" - Second Corinthians chapter one verse two.
True Adamance Scions of Athra 5214	Posted - 2013.12.23 04:50:00 - [62] - Quote NAY! Get them the **** out. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
pseudosnipre 410	Posted - 2013.12.23 04:54:00 - [63] - Quote 3mil SP OR 300,000 WP, minimum. Griefers should need to "cook" a new account for 3mo. New players will be FW ready in 6-7 weeks if they cap every week and don't use boosters. Don't care if it's an fps vet or a best friend, there's enough depth to keep you busy for 6 weeks -or- you can elect to cut your teeth in PC if you can find a corp that wants a newb running MLT fits. Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
Izlare Lenix FREE AGENTS LP 48	Posted - 2013.12.23 04:59:00 - [64] - Quote I don't like separating players based on age of the character, war points or SP. However, for FW, an interesting idea that will probably never happen would be to arrange matches based on players Standings. For instance all Caldari players at LVL 3 standing would go against Gal Players at LVL 3. Maybe even allow one level up and down to increase match frequency. So level 2,3,4 would be in the same matches. But a LVL 10 player should never play a LVL 3 player. This would solve some of the problems in FW. Mainly the fact that soooo many players play for Gallente. There are probably tons of them with high level standings since they almost always win, meanwhile most Caldari players have much lower standings, generally speaking, since it is so much harder to win for Caldari. So the tons of players that spammed Gal FW and have high standing will have to wait even longer for a match. finding 16 players on the caldari side at level 8,9,10 will be much harder than on the Gallente side. Or maybe just have 3 tiers. Lvl 1-3 fight together, Lvl 4-6 fight together, and 7-10 fight together. That would probably be the simplest way to prevent newberries getting mixed in with better players every single game. This means the masses playing for the same 2 sides all the time will have to wait even longer to get a match, or they will have to suck it up and fight for the underdog side. That could maybe help balance out the very lopsided state FW is currently in.
Mortedeamor 1072	Posted - 2013.12.23 12:58:00 - [65] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: side note what if one sided matches are solely due to racial imbalances with armor being better here gallente obviously beat caldari unless im playing of course they are not ask cubs..the other day we deployed to amarian between the 5 people we had..we had 64 kills ... we had 11 bluedots with us who collectively got 0 kills and 750 wp combined we were 1 ...5man vet squad vs 3 full squad with a bunch of new players on our side this is a serious issue people who dont have the gear and skills to compete in fw are merely dead weight ..matches like this prove it... closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 303	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:00:00 - [66] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: fw is a mode meant to be competitive ccp designed it to give the elite player base of dust something to do other than stomp all over the poor newer players in pub matches. it has friendly fire enabled much higher risk than pubs ..and an almost guarantee that the enemy will be coordinated. it is a much higher risk situation than pubs..but also with relatively same pay..you could actually say you make less in fw than you do in pubs. a coordinated squad with high end gear is a mandatory in fw...and with the lower payout naturally this suits established mercs more than newer ones we have the gear we have the teammates we have the money so i call to question whether or not new players should be allowed to participate in fw. currently i have seen bluedots that dont even know how to cut on their mics..being told how to cut push to talk off in team chat fw. this mode is not a place to be learning the ropes..with ff on and coordinated play being mandatory. newer players in fw introduce huge issues when one side is stacked there is less of a chance you will have players on your side that can hold their own you can only control the 5 teamates you bring in with you..and with everyone having access you get 3 proto squads vs 1 proto squad with 10 bluedots randoms with no gear no money who dont know the maps, strategy, and tactics required to win, and dont have the money gear or skills to compete. i feel that allowing fw to be played by anyone in new eden is breaking fw in itself this is a mode clearly designed for the veterans and elites. ccp please enter in a mandatory point that must be achieved before fw becomes available to a dust merc. this line should be much higher than the graduation for the newberry academy. players entering fw should have all the things ive described here..and to play fw without those thing i can only imagine is a miserable exp. any idea on what this line should be? i think it should be a sp line as sp is something that can only be accumulated so fast..someone whos played dust enough to get so much as 10 mill sp has the skills and in game knowledge if not the gear to compete in fw ideas suggestions discuss update and tally as of 21:49 est 12 /22/13 15 nays and or believe in the very least some limitation should be applyed 3 yays against limiting the quality of merc allowed to play in fw..or believe that the quality and skill of the mercs allowed is not the issue It's clear a limitation is required, but what do you base it on - total lifetime kills? Kill/death ratio? number of SP? war points? Each metric is not a viable measure of any one player's "newberriness". :P
Mortedeamor 1072	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:00:00 - [67] - Quote bear90211 wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I'm a majestic cat. ura flea ridden fur ball that needs to be made into chinese food I lol'ed so hard at this. PERFECT COMEBACK :D:D:D:D thanks ive been holding that one for a rainy day :D closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Mortedeamor 1072	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:04:00 - [68] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: fw is a mode meant to be competitive ccp designed it to give the elite player base of dust something to do other than stomp all over the poor newer players in pub matches. it has friendly fire enabled much higher risk than pubs ..and an almost guarantee that the enemy will be coordinated. it is a much higher risk situation than pubs..but also with relatively same pay..you could actually say you make less in fw than you do in pubs. a coordinated squad with high end gear is a mandatory in fw...and with the lower payout naturally this suits established mercs more than newer ones we have the gear we have the teammates we have the money so i call to question whether or not new players should be allowed to participate in fw. currently i have seen bluedots that dont even know how to cut on their mics..being told how to cut push to talk off in team chat fw. this mode is not a place to be learning the ropes..with ff on and coordinated play being mandatory. newer players in fw introduce huge issues when one side is stacked there is less of a chance you will have players on your side that can hold their own you can only control the 5 teamates you bring in with you..and with everyone having access you get 3 proto squads vs 1 proto squad with 10 bluedots randoms with no gear no money who dont know the maps, strategy, and tactics required to win, and dont have the money gear or skills to compete. i feel that allowing fw to be played by anyone in new eden is breaking fw in itself this is a mode clearly designed for the veterans and elites. ccp please enter in a mandatory point that must be achieved before fw becomes available to a dust merc. this line should be much higher than the graduation for the newberry academy. players entering fw should have all the things ive described here..and to play fw without those thing i can only imagine is a miserable exp. any idea on what this line should be? i think it should be a sp line as sp is something that can only be accumulated so fast..someone whos played dust enough to get so much as 10 mill sp has the skills and in game knowledge if not the gear to compete in fw ideas suggestions discuss update and tally as of 21:49 est 12 /22/13 15 nays and or believe in the very least some limitation should be applyed 3 yays against limiting the quality of merc allowed to play in fw..or believe that the quality and skill of the mercs allowed is not the issue It's clear a limitation is required, but what do you base it on - total lifetime kills? Kill/death ratio? number of SP? war points? Each metric is not a viable measure of any one player's "newberriness". :P i disagree i think sp is..you can only get sp so fast with the cap system..and giving it a sp limit before you can deploy means people have to spend a certain ammount of time playing the game and learning it even skilling up a bit ..before getting access to fw... closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Mac Dac Wraith Shadow Guards D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 398	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:06:00 - [69] - Quote I say yay but at their own risk. something like a caution sign when youare about to join a FW saying that FW has no matchmaking and a brutal pubstomp is almost guaranteed. "We should take care not to make intellect our god; it has, of course, strong muscles, but no personality" Albert Einste
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 528	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:07:00 - [70] - Quote I just want to answer the topic quickly. Yes, let newberries do FW. There is no reason to restrict anypne from any aspect of the game. HOWEVER They need to be paired vs equal adversaries with equal SP with the exception being squad invite or joining a friend. SO If you want to take a newbro to FW with your 20m SP friends you can do that. The hard part is to find the balancing threshold. I say 5m SP should be the first milestone. You kind of stop sucking at that point. Squad based priority stays. add ons need to match the skill level of the squads. SO a squad of Nyain San joins a FW vs a squad of 0.H. They would put me in that match as filler over a 2.5m SP newbro. (I'm 20m) How hard is that? "Because beer, that's why."

TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1830	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:13:00 - [71] - Quote Nay, just nay. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
Mortedeamor 1072	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:33:00 - [72] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: I just want to answer the topic quickly. Yes, let newberries do FW. There is no reason to restrict anypne from any aspect of the game. HOWEVER They need to be paired vs equal adversaries with equal SP with the exception being squad invite or joining a friend. SO If you want to take a newbro to FW with your 20m SP friends you can do that. The hard part is to find the balancing threshold. I say 5m SP should be the first milestone. You kind of stop sucking at that point. Squad based priority stays. add ons need to match the skill level of the squads. SO a squad of Nyain San joins a FW vs a squad of 0.H. They would put me in that match as filler over a 2.5m SP newbro. (I'm 20m) How hard is that? proper matchmaking of course would have been the first solution but ccp has already shown they are incapable of it..i know i know how hard could it be..but hey it is ccp we are dealing with here..and its not like they care about dust enough to have real man power dedicated to fixing this game closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Bax Zanith 0	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:11:00 - [73] - Quote Perhaps they should be allowed to play FWs when they have three times as much WP then needed to leave the academy. And when they first try FW, a prompt will pop up and ask them to pick a race to fight for. you don't win. you just spawn and get stomped into oblivion.
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 11	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:23:00 - [74] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: a coordinated squad with high end gear is a mandatory..and with the lower payout naturally this suits established mercs more than newer ones w What is this "lower payout" you speak of? You need LP AND isk to buy stuff in the LP store, but you arent getting paid any isk at all in fw. That seems more like NO payout to me. Fw blows chunks honestly. No captalistic minded person would play in Fw matches because as it is right now: nothing beats pure isk. Isk can buy you anything, while LP locked to a faction buys you crap (mostly). On topic: no, newberries should not be excluded from faction warfare for the same reason that newb pilots in Eve agent forbidden from entering nullsec space. Let them learn the hard way like everyone else.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3471	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:40:00 - [75] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: NO. Newberries should stick to Public matches. +1 i love how all the veterans agree that new players should not be allowed in fw but all the new players try and argue and say that fw is meant for them. Look @ FW how it is , this is NEWBERRIES FAULT. Not directly their fault,but CCP for allowing them into something that influences so much. How can a fresh newberry of the academy defend the objective that dictates if amarr keeps or looses a district? And of course most newberries dont care for CHOOSING a factio nto fight for in FW.So they just click on FW for all factions why most Gallente and Minmatar Loyal factions just click their own faction.This makes MIN and GAL saturated and the game will place the randoms in the only game they fit ,CAL and AMA. so when me and 2 other friends want to play for amarr what do we have? 3 good amarr players and 13 randoms vs 12 good players in squad / 3 good players / MAybe 3-4 randoms There by , we end up LOOSING , guaranteed. Players SHOULDNT be able to play for FW unless they have AT LEAST 10 million SP. (some said 5 mill, but com'on,unless its an alt of an old player how much of a chance do you actually have as a newberry with 5 mill? HEH....) An immediate semi-solution would be to LIMIT the amount of FACTIONS checked to play for in FW to 2. This way the newberry wont just click to play FQ at any random Faction and end up inevitably in Caldari or Amarr. He MUST choose a MAXIMUM of 2 factions.... AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1312	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:41:00 - [76] - Quote Depends on what you class as a newberry. I personally think we need to obtain security clearances, a little like EVE. You should have to obtain an average performance rating before you get the next clearance. Each one will probably be the same with your average being reset each time you get your next clearance. This way you don't move to next security status UNTIL you are capable of defending yourself. It should go in this order. Training (Tutorial) \| Battle Accademy \| Public Contracts (PvP - High Sec) Public Contracts (PvE - High Sec) \| + Mercenary Contracts (PvP - Low Sec) + Mercenary Contracts (PvE - Low Sec) + Factional Contracts (PvP - Low Sec) + Corporation Contracts (PvP - Low Sec) + Capsuleer Contracts (Unspecified - Low Sec) \| + Private Contracts (PvP - Null Sec) + Private Contracts (PvE - Null Sec) + Corporation Contracts (PvP - Null Sec) + Capsuleer Contracts (Unspecified - Null Sec) + Privateer Contracts (PvP + PvE - Null Sec / Wormhole Space) Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1669	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:44:00 - [77] - Quote Academy to 25,000 Then moved to Public Contracts Open Faction Warfare at 100,000 WP Alyssa Milano.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 820	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:50:00 - [78] - Quote I say no, but for slightly different reasons. This thread contains some of my suggestions to improve FW, with an SP requirement at the top. I think the cap should be low, maybe 1-2 million SP. I don't necessarily thnk FW should be 'PC lite" but it's not for people fresh out of the academy either. Competitive, not necessarily exclusive. 10 million is WAY too high. I want to make a point though: I don't think it's all noobishness that's the problem. In an average 1.6 pubstomp, there would be a fairly gradual decrease in the # of kills and WP as you went down the board. Maybe 1-2 people would have 0 WP, and that's it. This does not occur in FW, at least for Amarr. In the Amarr FW battles I've been in, there's the competent people in the one squad that joined, maybe 1-2 people who do OK, and then there is this sudden massive dropoff where you go from 500 WP to 0 WP with nothing in between, and instead of 1-2 people, there are 5, 6, even 7 with no WP. That's not random chance. It's AFK or awox. And not everyone is XERg and does it openly on their main, like Jadek. So, if you make a small barrier to entry, people can't use fresh alts to do this easily, they have to put at least a token effort into it. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Mortedeamor 1091	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:54:00 - [79] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I say no, but for slightly different reasons. This thread contains some of my suggestions to improve FW, with an SP requirement at the top. I think the cap should be low, maybe 1-2 million SP. I don't necessarily thnk FW should be 'PC lite" but it's not for people fresh out of the academy either. Competitive, not necessarily exclusive. 10 million is WAY too high. I want to make a point though: I don't think it's all noobishness that's the problem. In an average 1.6 pubstomp, there would be a fairly gradual decrease in the # of kills and WP as you went down the board. Maybe 1-2 people would have 0 WP, and that's it. This does not occur in FW, at least for Amarr. In the Amarr FW battles I've been in, there's the competent people in the one squad that joined, maybe 1-2 people who do OK, and then there is this sudden massive dropoff where you go from 500 WP to 0 WP with nothing in between, and instead of 1-2 people, there are 5, 6, even 7 with no WP. That's not random chance. It's AFK or awox. And not everyone is XERg and does it openly on their main, like Jadek. So, if you make a small barrier to entry, people can't use fresh alts to do this easily, they have to put at least a token effort into it. the last amarr fw i did..we had a five man squad we were cloned...everyne in the squad ran positive..there were 3 kills that were not made by the squad mates..we had 22 deaths between the 5 of us so out of 11 people they got 3 kills 350 wp and were responsible for 128 deaths ..they were not awoxing they were not afking ..they merely were fresh out of the academy had no real gear and sucked at first person shooters closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1312	Posted - 2013.12.23 23:48:00 - [80] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: NO. Newberries should stick to Public matches. +1 i love how all the veterans agree that new players should not be allowed in fw but all the new players try and argue and say that fw is meant for them. Look @ FW how it is , this is NEWBERRIES FAULT. Not directly their fault,but CCP for allowing them into something that influences so much. How can a fresh newberry of the academy defend the objective that dictates if amarr keeps or looses a district? And of course most newberries dont care for CHOOSING a factio nto fight for in FW.So they just click on FW for all factions why most Gallente and Minmatar Loyal factions just click their own faction.This makes MIN and GAL saturated and the game will place the randoms in the only game they fit ,CAL and AMA. so when me and 2 other friends want to play for amarr what do we have? 3 good amarr players and 13 randoms vs 12 good players in squad / 3 good players / MAybe 3-4 randoms There by , we end up LOOSING , guaranteed. Players SHOULDNT be able to play for FW unless they have AT LEAST 10 million SP. (some said 5 mill, but com'on,unless its an alt of an old player how much of a chance do you actually have as a newberry with 5 mill? HEH....) An immediate semi-solution would be to LIMIT the amount of FACTIONS checked to play for in FW to 2. This way the newberry wont just click to play FQ at any random Faction and end up inevitably in Caldari or Amarr. He MUST choose a MAXIMUM of 2 factions.... Im on 8.9mil I have a full proto suit, and you're gonna stop me? If you are gonna limit access you need a new metric, one that considers WP per Match K/D ratio per Match W/L ratio As prehaps an Infamy Metric, once you have good enough reputation the factions start extending their own contracts. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3473	Posted - 2013.12.23 23:54:00 - [81] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: NO. Newberries should stick to Public matches. +1 i love how all the veterans agree that new players should not be allowed in fw but all the new players try and argue and say that fw is meant for them. Look @ FW how it is , this is NEWBERRIES FAULT. Not directly their fault,but CCP for allowing them into something that influences so much. How can a fresh newberry of the academy defend the objective that dictates if amarr keeps or looses a district? And of course most newberries dont care for CHOOSING a factio nto fight for in FW.So they just click on FW for all factions why most Gallente and Minmatar Loyal factions just click their own faction.This makes MIN and GAL saturated and the game will place the randoms in the only game they fit ,CAL and AMA. so when me and 2 other friends want to play for amarr what do we have? 3 good amarr players and 13 randoms vs 12 good players in squad / 3 good players / MAybe 3-4 randoms There by , we end up LOOSING , guaranteed. Players SHOULDNT be able to play for FW unless they have AT LEAST 10 million SP. (some said 5 mill, but com'on,unless its an alt of an old player how much of a chance do you actually have as a newberry with 5 mill? HEH....) An immediate semi-solution would be to LIMIT the amount of FACTIONS checked to play for in FW to 2. This way the newberry wont just click to play FQ at any random Faction and end up inevitably in Caldari or Amarr. He MUST choose a MAXIMUM of 2 factions.... Im on 8.9mil I have a full proto suit, and you're gonna stop me? If you are gonna limit access you need a new metric, one that considers WP per Match K/D ratio per Match W/L ratio As prehaps an Infamy Metric, once you have good enough reputation the factions start extending their own contracts. No. My SCR rifle will stop you. ;) lol im 23 millin and i dont even use proto XD Yeah yeah, the fact a player is GOOD with 500kSp - 8.9 mill sp does not mean this applies to everyone. As a proven fact,gear makes the player most of the times.Just look at all these ''elite'' corps with their ''elite'' players ,running in squads , proto stomping and stat padding,but while facing you 1 v 1 with BPO they cant do s*? The fact SOME players are good with little SP does not mean this is the general case. Then again, i do agree with you. WP per match/total should be considered. IMO: SP + total WP/wp per match could do it for metrics in order to apply for FW.** AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1156	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:01:00 - [82] - Quote Jack Kittinger wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Yes, but only if brought in by squad. Factional Warfare contracts require you to be in a squad. after multiple attempts you wanna solo? here have a pub match new players shouldn't be restricted from main game modes as much as we might like it to be so its just not fair, but jacks idea is worthy +1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1312	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:16:00 - [83] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: NO. Newberries should stick to Public matches. +1 i love how all the veterans agree that new players should not be allowed in fw but all the new players try and argue and say that fw is meant for them. Look @ FW how it is , this is NEWBERRIES FAULT. Not directly their fault,but CCP for allowing them into something that influences so much. How can a fresh newberry of the academy defend the objective that dictates if amarr keeps or looses a district? And of course most newberries dont care for CHOOSING a factio nto fight for in FW.So they just click on FW for all factions why most Gallente and Minmatar Loyal factions just click their own faction.This makes MIN and GAL saturated and the game will place the randoms in the only game they fit ,CAL and AMA. so when me and 2 other friends want to play for amarr what do we have? 3 good amarr players and 13 randoms vs 12 good players in squad / 3 good players / MAybe 3-4 randoms There by , we end up LOOSING , guaranteed. Players SHOULDNT be able to play for FW unless they have AT LEAST 10 million SP. (some said 5 mill, but com'on,unless its an alt of an old player how much of a chance do you actually have as a newberry with 5 mill? HEH....) An immediate semi-solution would be to LIMIT the amount of FACTIONS checked to play for in FW to 2. This way the newberry wont just click to play FQ at any random Faction and end up inevitably in Caldari or Amarr. He MUST choose a MAXIMUM of 2 factions.... Im on 8.9mil I have a full proto suit, and you're gonna stop me? If you are gonna limit access you need a new metric, one that considers WP per Match K/D ratio per Match W/L ratio As prehaps an Infamy Metric, once you have good enough reputation the factions start extending their own contracts. No. My SCR rifle will stop you. ;) lol im 23 millin and i dont even use proto XD Yeah yeah, the fact a player is GOOD with 500kSp - 8.9 mill sp does not mean this applies to everyone. As a proven fact,gear makes the player most of the times.Just look at all these ''elite'' corps with their ''elite'' players ,running in squads , proto stomping and stat padding,but while facing you 1 v 1 with BPO they cant do s*? The fact SOME players are good with little SP does not mean this is the general case. Then again, i do agree with you. WP per match/total should be considered. IMO: SP + total WP/wp per match could do it for metrics in order to apply for FW.** All the more reason for a different metric, skill points don't reflect the skill of the player. So while you or I might be fine in FW that's not to say someone with more SP will fair just as well. In my previous post, I suggest security clearance for everything. You could add an SP, WP goal to reach before advance to next clearance level. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Mortedeamor 1091	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:24:00 - [84] - Quote I PROPOSE that there be multiple ways of unlocking fw...5 mill sp 100,000 wp or 2000 kills now i draw these numbers for wp and kills from this..a good logi always makes 1000wp per match..so 100 matches bam u can play fw..less if your a great logi...a good slayer gets roughly 20 kills per match ..so 100 matches same..and if you just simply blow chunks at dust youll reach 5 million wp before 2000 kills or 100,000 wp and have it unlocked anyway because u now have gear to make u good. now i do on average 150 matches per day..so as a veteran i could see a bad ass player unlocking fw in 1 -2 days. this allows fw to be unlocked easier by skilled players and not with an sp measure..i think all the good players in dust can agree 100k wp or 2 k kills is not a super high requirement for fw closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1312	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:35:00 - [85] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: I PROPOSE that there be multiple ways of unlocking fw...5 mill sp 100,000 wp or 2000 kills now i draw these numbers for wp and kills from this..a good logi always makes 1000wp per match..so 100 matches bam u can play fw..less if your a great logi...a good slayer gets roughly 20 kills per match ..so 100 matches same..and if you just simply blow chunks at dust youll reach 5 million wp before 2000 kills or 100,000 wp and have it unlocked anyway because u now have gear to make u good. now i do on average 150 matches per day..so as a veteran i could see a bad ass player unlocking fw in 1 -2 days. this allows fw to be unlocked easier by skilled players and not with an sp measure..i think all the good players in dust can agree 100k wp or 2 k kills is not a super high requirement for fw 150 matches a day? Bloody hell, how long do you spend here? I get about 15-20. But I think your missing the trick here, setting static goals isn't the best way to do this. Static Goals don't require performance, just attendance. Its better to go for a variable, something that can change per match. You should have to knock out an average performance constiently to be cleared for high-tier-ops. It gives you something to aim for other than the grind, it can used in public contract matchmaking, or for assesment by corporations or gel-breathers. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Mortedeamor 1091	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:37:00 - [86] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: I PROPOSE that there be multiple ways of unlocking fw...5 mill sp 100,000 wp or 2000 kills now i draw these numbers for wp and kills from this..a good logi always makes 1000wp per match..so 100 matches bam u can play fw..less if your a great logi...a good slayer gets roughly 20 kills per match ..so 100 matches same..and if you just simply blow chunks at dust youll reach 5 million wp before 2000 kills or 100,000 wp and have it unlocked anyway because u now have gear to make u good. now i do on average 150 matches per day..so as a veteran i could see a bad ass player unlocking fw in 1 -2 days. this allows fw to be unlocked easier by skilled players and not with an sp measure..i think all the good players in dust can agree 100k wp or 2 k kills is not a super high requirement for fw 150 matches a day? Bloody hell, how long do you spend here? I get about 15-20. But I think your missing the trick here, setting static goals isn't the best way to do this. Static Goals don't require performance, just attendance. Its better to go for a variable, something that can change per match. You should have to knock out an average performance constiently to be cleared for high-tier-ops. It gives you something to aim for other than the grind, it can used in public contract matchmaking, or for assesment by corporations or gel-breathers. from reset to 3 pm east every weekday i dont play on weekend pretty much only when my hubby is at work closed beta veteran 37mill sp proto ammar logi, assault, heavy


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