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mollerz
Minja Scouts
1403
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Posted - 2013.12.20 03:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just want to start by refering to the Mk.0 scout suit description since their introduction:
Quote:The Scout dropsuit is a lightweight suit optimized for enhanced mobility, multi-spectrum stealth, and heightened awareness. Augmented joint servo motors give every movement extra speed and flexibility, while integrated friction and impact dampening materials reduce the overall sound signature.
Biotic augments make this suit ideal for a melee-focused role. Woven into the suit, a tremor membrane saturates muscles with nutrients amplifying the cross-sectional force of physical strikes. Combined with rigorous training, this temporarily enhanced strength and dexterity make the Minmatar Scout almost unmatched in hand-to-hand combat.
When missions call for speed and stealth, situations in which heavily armored suits would be more of a burden than an advantage, a scout dropsuit is the best option. The enhanced mobility it provides makes up for its relatively low protection, and when combined with stealth technology modules, the scout suit is the obvious choice for infiltration, counter-espionage, and assassination.
1) The act of attacking would break the cloak. Not the turning off the module and then attacking. Not switching to a weapon from a scanner type of equipment.
2) You can not sprint without causing a lot of visual distortion and making you far easier to see, yet not totally decloak as well. The cloak would resume fully as you transitioned into walk speed. This way you couldn't just run up to a group fully cloaked and uncloak as you swung your knives.
3) If you break your cloak there should be a recovery period based on a skill level. Not ten minutes either. perhaps 30s to start with a 10% decrease per cloaking skill.
4) the cloak should take up a high slot. The balance is perpetuated by the vulnurability of the suit. equipping a cloak then further weakens a scouts defenses as they lose a shield extender. Losing a shield extender on even a proto minja currently still keeps you at 300EHP total fully skilled out.
5) minjas and ganjas should have different cloaking utlizations. Ganja more recon based. minja more assasination based. both races should have a counter espionage version.
Furthermore, in any design implementations. I need to insist it is true to the Proto minja scout description that has been on the suit since their inception.
- It is definitely a module- high slot makes the most sense. - It is balanced by the already existing weakness of the suit, thus draconian fittings and irregular slot placement is not a balance in any which way. - It is combat worthy to the point of accentuating assassination, recon, and counter espionage per the description.
#shittycoding
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
1809
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Posted - 2013.12.20 04:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Would it be a used in the equipment slot?
Also, Ginja.
But I like yours better ;)
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
957
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Posted - 2013.12.20 04:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Is this an active cloak or a passive cloak?
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3389
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Posted - 2013.12.20 04:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Would it be a used in the equipment slot?
Also, Ginja.
But I like yours better ;)
GÖª If its an equipment Logis will abuse it as well,going as far as packing Cloaking + A.Sanners making Scouts useless (even more). GÖª Cloaking SHOULD be scout only too.
AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
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Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
2358
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Posted - 2013.12.20 04:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
I hope they just give all scouts 2 equipment slots and give them a bonus to equipping them. So you can have the utility of two piece of equipment with a gimped tank or DPS or one piece of equipment, a cloak, and a decent tank.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Otrera Goddess
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
104
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Posted - 2013.12.20 04:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Give me a cloak now |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
5949
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Posted - 2013.12.20 05:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Frame and CCP Remnant have confirmed that cloaks will be equipment items.
Sources: http://dust514.com/news/2013/12/interview-with-ccp-remnant/ http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/equipment-is-your-friend/
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
3290
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Posted - 2013.12.20 05:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ganja
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 3
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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Sam Tektzby
Better Hide R Die
42
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Posted - 2013.12.20 05:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Oki they basicaly steal cloak from Blacklight: Retribution how it seems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTGpzBWHDv4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nHoNUaD-NY
Support - Tactician/Medic
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T8R Raid
BIG BAD W0LVES
104
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Posted - 2013.12.20 05:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Often times, i feel like my ginja gk.0 is already cloaked, most people rely on scanners and their radar. give me a cloak and it'll have no better description than 'rude'. also, logis do everything better already, dont let them have cloaks too. that would be lame, and if you're hellbent on letting them fit it. make it so they cant fit anything but a standard weapon with no mods. just to prove the point thats it really a scout tool.
Unchecked dishonesty can promote the perception that one must cheat to remain competitive.
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4188
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Posted - 2013.12.20 05:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
It's been confirmed as an equipment for a long time, NOT a module. The reason is because they want to add it in soon, but they don't have any interface currently for active modules on dropsuits. So why go through all the work of creating that just for one item when they can instead make it an equipment and then activate it from the equipment wheel. Just makes more sense for CCP.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
5951
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Posted - 2013.12.20 05:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
I want that machete!
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4188
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Posted - 2013.12.20 05:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
T8R Raid wrote:Often times, i feel like my ginja gk.0 is already cloaked, most people rely on scanners and their radar. give me a cloak and it'll have no better description than 'rude'. also, logis do everything better already, dont let them have cloaks too. that would be lame, and if you're hellbent on letting them fit it. make it so they cant fit anything but a standard weapon with no mods. just to prove the point thats it really a scout tool. That's pretty much how CCP's been describing it. The fitting costs will be crazy high so you cannot fit it on any suit unless you want to sacrifice both firepower and defenses, but scouts will get a hefty fitting reduction bonus.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
5951
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Posted - 2013.12.20 05:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
T8R Raid wrote:Often times, i feel like my ginja gk.0 is already cloaked, most people rely on scanners and their radar. give me a cloak and it'll have no better description than 'rude'. also, logis do everything better already, dont let them have cloaks too. that would be lame, and if you're hellbent on letting them fit it. make it so they cant fit anything but a standard weapon with no mods. just to prove the point thats it really a scout tool.
As a dedicated scout, I actually condone allowing every suit class to fit a cloak IF they have the equipment slot for it.
If you read the link that I provided, you can see that CCP Remnant mentioned that scouts will get a fitting bonus for cloaks. This will mean that a Logi will be able to use it but at the cost of fitting other modules which he might need to compete. Heavies currently don't have any equipment slots so we can rule out any threat of invisible HMGs. Scouts in the meantime will have full reign on the cloak since they will be able to fit everything else without having to worry about their CPU/PG.
There is also the fact that scouts might also be given an additional perk in which the cloak will fluctuate less when used on a scout instead of a Logi.
In Eve Online, every ship can fit a cloak, but the Covert Ops ships are the only ones capable of warping while cloaked, capable of instantly targeting without suffering any targeting delay penalty that others have to deal with, and they don't suffer any speed penalty when activated.
But to fair, even in Eve Online, there is a certain cloak that can only be fitted on a Covert Ops and that's the Covert Ops Cloaking Device.
In Dust, there should be a standard cloak that is available for all suits but can work better on scouts. But at the same time, there should be a high-tier Covert Ops cloaking equipment that can only be fitted on the prototype-level scout suit or a highly-specialized Covert Ops scout suit.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Sam Tektzby
Better Hide R Die
42
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Posted - 2013.12.20 05:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
In Blacklight retributon you have:
Knife Bigger knife Trowing knives (throw/melee - my favorite on my speed cloak class) Machete Crowbar Hammer (my second melee arm)
and wierd thingies like: Electric shurikens (throw/melee - on wall or floor working like stunt mines) Explosive tomahawh (throw/melee - in wall or floor working lke remote explosive).
Support - Tactician/Medic
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
5951
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Posted - 2013.12.20 05:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sam Tektzby wrote:In Blacklight retributon you have: Knife, Bigger knife, Trowing knives (my favorite on my speed cloak class), Machete, Crowbar, Hammer and wierd thingies like Electric shurikens (on wall or floor working like stunt mines) and Explosive tomahawh (in wall or floor working lke remote explosive).
**** those other things. I just want the machete.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Tch Tch
Red Shirts Away Team
90
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Posted - 2013.12.20 05:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Why not put active modules on the same wheel as equipment... There is plenty of space on the wheel, we already use it.
Simplest solution and the least training required to adapt to. Maybe visually have a different colour for active modules.
Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
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Sam Tektzby
Better Hide R Die
42
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Posted - 2013.12.20 06:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Sam Tektzby wrote:In Blacklight retributon you have: Knife, Bigger knife, Trowing knives (my favorite on my speed cloak class), Machete, Crowbar, Hammer and wierd thingies like Electric shurikens (on wall or floor working like stunt mines) and Explosive tomahawh (in wall or floor working lke remote explosive). **** those other things. I just want the machete.
Wait i know you XD
http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/machete-danny-trejo-image.jpg
Support - Tactician/Medic
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mr musturd
0uter.Heaven
168
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Posted - 2013.12.20 11:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Sam Tektzby wrote:In Blacklight retributon you have: Knife, Bigger knife, Trowing knives (my favorite on my speed cloak class), Machete, Crowbar, Hammer and wierd thingies like Electric shurikens (on wall or floor working like stunt mines) and Explosive tomahawh (in wall or floor working lke remote explosive). **** those other things. I just want the machete. if you get a machete i want one as well. also the cloak better be an equipment item im not sacrificing a high slot! |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
384
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Posted - 2013.12.20 11:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:T8R Raid wrote:Often times, i feel like my ginja gk.0 is already cloaked, most people rely on scanners and their radar. give me a cloak and it'll have no better description than 'rude'. also, logis do everything better already, dont let them have cloaks too. that would be lame, and if you're hellbent on letting them fit it. make it so they cant fit anything but a standard weapon with no mods. just to prove the point thats it really a scout tool. As a dedicated scout, I actually condone allowing every suit class to fit a cloak IF they have the equipment slot for it. If you read the link that I provided, you can see that CCP Remnant mentioned that scouts will get a fitting bonus for cloaks. This will mean that a Logi will be able to use it but at the cost of fitting other modules which he might need to compete. Heavies currently don't have any equipment slots so we can rule out any threat of invisible HMGs. Scouts in the meantime will have full reign on the cloak since they will be able to fit everything else without having to worry about their CPU/PG. There is also the fact that scouts might also be given an additional perk in which the cloak will fluctuate less when used on a scout instead of a Logi. In Eve Online, every ship can fit a cloak, but the Covert Ops ships are the only ones capable of warping while cloaked, capable of instantly targeting without suffering any targeting delay penalty that others have to deal with, and they don't suffer any speed penalty when activated. But to fair, even in Eve Online, there is a certain cloak that can only be fitted on a Covert Ops and that's the Covert Ops Cloaking Device. In Dust, there should be a standard cloak that is available for all suits but can work better on scouts. But at the same time, there should be a high-tier Covert Ops cloaking equipment that can only be fitted on the prototype-level scout suit or a highly-specialized Covert Ops scout suit.
I fear that scouts won't be a good choice for cloaking equipment unless they get a HUGE boost to fitting reqs.
Scouts have the lowest CPU rating(apart from commandos I think) and not that much PG as well. So any medium suit will have a good chance to have more overall effective cloaked fittings. A good bonus to compensate could be that only scouts can move or sprint while cloaking is active let every other suit break the cloak when they move.... |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4265
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Posted - 2013.12.20 11:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:A good bonus to compensate could be that only scouts can move or sprint while cloaking is active let every other suit break the cloak when they move.... There's going to be a "shimmer" effect on cloaks which makes you not-quite-invisible. Movement will make it worse. It's been proposed that this shimmer would be greatly reduced on Scouts.
You don't break cloak by moving, but you become LESS invisible, and Scouts don't take as hard a hit as other suits. If they do it right, it'll be good. If they do it wrong, the movement will expose you obviously enough that even a Scout might as well be breaking cloak if they try to run. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
384
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Posted - 2013.12.20 11:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:A good bonus to compensate could be that only scouts can move or sprint while cloaking is active let every other suit break the cloak when they move.... There's going to be a "shimmer" effect on cloaks which makes you not-quite-invisible. Movement will make it worse. It's been proposed that this shimmer would be greatly reduced on Scouts. You don't break cloak by moving, but you become LESS invisible, and Scouts don't take as hard a hit as other suits. If they do it right, it'll be good. If they do it wrong, the movement will expose you obviously enough that even a Scout might as well be breaking cloak if they try to run.
Well I guess it will partly depend on how significant the scouts bonus to cloaking devices will be. But looking at current skill bonusses I am a little concerned that tis bonus will be something around 10% per level, this can easily compensated by medium suits with their better slot layout and higher CPU ratings...
Of course it also depends on massive the shimmering effect on non scoutsuits will be compared to scouts, but in general CCP has showed that they don't like scouts very much. |
FAKIR REDETTa
0uter.Heaven
31
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Posted - 2013.12.20 12:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
a visible cloak is useless make it spy tf2 |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
1985
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Posted - 2013.12.20 12:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
I mentioned this before elsewhere but ingame descriptions are so horrendously out of date that they should not be taken as any current or future intention for anything at all.
Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
957
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Posted - 2013.12.20 13:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:It's been confirmed as an equipment for a long time, NOT a module. The reason is because they want to add it in soon, but they don't have any interface currently for active modules on dropsuits. So why go through all the work of creating that just for one item when they can instead make it an equipment and then activate it from the equipment wheel. Just makes more sense for CCP.
Because CCP has the logistics class which they plan to be the best at using equipment. However, the cloak and things like e-war, hardeners, etc. are not things that the logi should excel at using but will if they are implemented as equipment. (Not to mention they just make more sense as being a part of the suit and not an outside device) It makes more sense to update the interface to include active modules because it is work that gives CCP more freedom in how to add new content to the game. Creating a game can't be about taking the easiest path, it requires taking the best path that creates a good foundation to build the game upon.
!
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mollerz
Minja Scouts
1406
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Posted - 2013.12.20 20:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
T8R Raid wrote:Often times, i feel like my ginja gk.0 is already cloaked, most people rely on scanners and their radar. give me a cloak and it'll have no better description than 'rude'. also, logis do everything better already, dont let them have cloaks too. that would be lame, and if you're hellbent on letting them fit it. make it so they cant fit anything but a standard weapon with no mods. just to prove the point thats it really a scout tool.
I've been getting snuck up on by you guys a lot :)
#shittycoding
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mollerz
Minja Scouts
1406
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Posted - 2013.12.20 20:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:A good bonus to compensate could be that only scouts can move or sprint while cloaking is active let every other suit break the cloak when they move.... There's going to be a "shimmer" effect on cloaks which makes you not-quite-invisible. Movement will make it worse. It's been proposed that this shimmer would be greatly reduced on Scouts. You don't break cloak by moving, but you become LESS invisible, and Scouts don't take as hard a hit as other suits. If they do it right, it'll be good. If they do it wrong, the movement will expose you obviously enough that even a Scout might as well be breaking cloak if they try to run.
I picture basically playing red light green light lol.
#shittycoding
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mollerz
Minja Scouts
1406
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Posted - 2013.12.20 20:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:I mentioned this before elsewhere but ingame descriptions are so horrendously out of date that they should not be taken as any current or future intention for anything at all.
That doesn't mean it shouldn't be taken seriously. I realize that CCP is just basically sloppy as all ****, but c'mon. Get a fricken copyrighter intern to do a sweep and adjust everything for accuracy. It really is shameful how much information is missing.
LAZY.
#shittycoding
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Ghost Kaisar
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
1272
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Posted - 2013.12.20 20:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Also realize that most scouts won't use it to sneak RIGHT up onto the target.
I will probably end up using mine to stage ambushes and to make hasty get-aways.
Think of it this way. Why have a cloak going when nobody can see you?
Use the cloak to traverse high visibility areas, and let it recharge while you are hidden.
Use it for ambushes. Kill 2 targets, and the rest start running after you. Retreat into room. Stand in corner. Cloak. They walk in, don't see anything, and then continue moving, thinking that the scout has run off elsewhere. If they don't see you cloak, they can't know that you have one on.
Play smart people
Minmatar Faction Warfare: Let's get Organized
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Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
346
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Posted - 2013.12.20 20:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
I agree that any active modules should have their own slot, therefore by necessity "niche" rolls aka the non-versatile suits should have actives built in, cloaks for scouts, active self reps or hardeners for heavies.
Although it would be pretty phenomenal to Be a cloaked heavy in a room with a point, and a HMG... Buwahahahaha it'd be so deliciously evil. |
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