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BALANCING ISSUES - The Rifles

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KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3379	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:41:00 - [1] - Quote RR users say the CR is OP. CR users say the RR is OP. SCR say everything else is op, but secretly 1HKO ADV med frames. AR users say there is no reason to use the AR anymore,but whip out a Duvolle and kill 4 reds with one clip. Look people. The weapon that KILLS you will always be considered OP.If you use a Combat rifle and get KILLED by a Combat rifle,you will think:'' well , i was hurt'' / '' There were 2+ of them '' / ' I missed'' / ''The dude was just better than me'' / ''He got lucky'' / What Ever... But as soon as the CR user gets killed by a RR,even if the one of the above reasons was in fact correct, you will automatically think: '' IT killed me even if i was shooting? its OP''. Please. All rifles are VERY POWERFUL, maybe a LOT compared to other weapons. I've tested ALL of them extensively thou. We Need to address the REAL issue here. We need 2 things BEFORE even thinking of nerfing the ONLY weapons in dust that actually get the job done: 1-now with Hit detection fixed, REMOVE AIM ASSIST 2-Slight buff to every other weapon Discuss, thanks for your time. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 6478	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:43:00 - [2] - Quote Aim assist is still a problem? I've noticed most fire coming at me is far less accurate than it was. Level 6 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 297	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:45:00 - [3] - Quote The only problem is frame drops causing misses. All the rifles are just fine. Fix equipment spam, bad geometry and the few rendering glitches and its all good.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3690	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:46:00 - [4] - Quote Removing Aim Assist or even toning it down would greatly help with the RR being extremely proficient in CQC as well as removing the general rifle users that can't aim to save their life.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3379	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:47:00 - [5] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Removing Aim Assist or even toning it down would greatly help with the RR being extremely proficient in CQC as well as removing the general rifle users that can't aim to save their life. Same with the SCR. I hate whipping out my SMG for Close quarters and the other a*hole just spams R1 and gets me...and im like: ''well that was n00bish,me being an amarr assault i could have done the same but for longer... : / ''* AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 37	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:48:00 - [6] - Quote I using RR and from what i saw, rifles are nicely balanced right now. How i see that roght now is: RR (or how i nicknamed it Gaussie) - Long 2 medium range CR - medium 2 close AR - Somewhere between RR and CR and finally that wierd duo (i meant it for me) ACR - Its like weapon somwhere abowe it, i cant compare it but in hands of good player its deadly like everything what i told before. LR - I see this "burner" more like support weapon, something like oposite of "nadespawner" (mass driver) I should try that AIM assist fix, i actually still feel like "oki this is close enought" everytime when conteder s near to me (5 and less) Support - Tactician/Medic
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 688	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:01:00 - [7] - Quote i used to think the ScR was the OP god mode gun. then i did the math. turns out, i was right. highest DPS gun in the game, beating AV weapons even. the HMG and ScrP try to come close but still fall behind a fair amout. To give you an idea, a prof5 3 dmg mods imperial ScR can do a little under 1400 dmg in a second. NOT considering charged alpha dmg. Count for 2 seconds, in that time its dished out about 2700 dmg.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3380	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:06:00 - [8] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: i used to think the ScR was the OP god mode gun. then i did the math. turns out, i was right. highest DPS gun in the game, beating AV weapons even. the HMG and ScrP try to come close but still fall behind a fair amout. To give you an idea, a prof5 3 dmg mods imperial ScR can do a little under 1400 dmg in a second. NOT considering charged alpha dmg. Count for 2 seconds, in that time its dished out about 2700 dmg. You are not counting the fact the Scrambler rifles have: Very high Fitting requirements ,specially PG The WORST drawback of all rifles, the Overheat mechanic. The SCR is still the BEST rifle for med ranged ONE ON ONE engagements, but to face 3+ enemies its not the best option. Main reason the SCR rifle is by far the least used rifle at the moment. AND REMEMBER, numbers are NOT everything.You ''Highest DPS'' is based on the hypothetical case one does not miss a single SHOT. Being a semi auto weapon is easier to miss Shots compared to other weapons. (specifically RR and Ar) AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 513	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:10:00 - [9] - Quote SCR OHKO's proto assault suit's don't let them fool you ;) Most SCR users have charged shot's hitting at about 480-520+ damage then you add the headshot. Most brick tanked logi's limp away and are like "WTF.. even a Thales doesn't hit that hard" everyone else either dies and or is lucky. Its just got a bit to much efficiency everything else is fine. Did they fix the overheat circumvent glitch? shrugs We don't need AA no more.it hurts the game more then it helps.That or limit it to characters under 5-10m SP and it stops working.. it's just being abused and it's not the new players who benefit from it at this point.
Sgt Buttscratch 1227	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:12:00 - [10] - Quote Simplest answer to this: Which ever gun kills you when your in your sunday best is OP, that is how Dust514 work. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans

KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3381	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:19:00 - [11] - Quote Bethhy wrote: SCR OHKO's proto assault suit's don't let them fool you ;) Most SCR users have charged shot's hitting at about 480-520+ damage then you add the headshot. Most brick tanked logi's limp away and are like "WTF.. even a Thales doesn't hit that hard" everyone else either dies and or is lucky. Its just got a bit to much efficiency everything else is fine. Did they fix the overheat circumvent glitch? shrugs We don't need AA no more.it hurts the game more then it helps.That or limit it to characters under 5-10m SP and it stops working.. it's just being abused and it's not the new players who benefit from it at this point. ''SCR OHKO's proto assault suit's don't let them fool you ;) '' What proto suits? Last time i checked i couldnt drop a SINGLE proto logi,since all have at least 500ARMOR (and the SCR rifle has the worst penalty at 80% vs armor) and anything with 500+ EHP can Survive. If you are talking about PROTO SCOUTS, then i agree. If you are talking about a CHARGED SHOT , PLUS headshot, i think i kind of deserve the kill, and STILL,most of the times they dont drop,making me have to use follow up shots and having to take out an SMG if there is another enemy near... ''Most SCR users have charged shot's hitting at about 480-520+ damage then you add the headshot.'' So the rifle is OP because i can aim? Because im betting a 1 on 1 firefight on ONE shot? Im still missing the point here... '' Most brick tanked logi's limp away and are like "WTF.. even a Thales doesn't hit that hard" everyone else either dies and or is lucky.'' 1 on 1 the SCR is powerful. I;ve said it, its probably the BEST 1 on 1 weapon in the game. But if you are with ANOTHER friend and you BOTH die to 1 SCR user,you are doing it wrong. ''Its just got a bit to much efficiency everything else is fine. Did they fix the overheat circumvent glitch? shrugs LOL no. In any case, making the SCR have +10% vs Shields and ONLY -10% vs armor would really fix it ;) Yea the glitch is fixed. ''We don't need AA no more.it hurts the game more then it helps.That or limit it to characters under 5-10m SP and it stops working.. it's just being abused and it's not the new players who benefit from it at this point'' Agreed 100% Before AA i felt special using the SCR rifle. After AA, not so much.... BTW , most people saying the SCR is so damn OP are probably AR users....I know bethy is.... CR and RR users are mostly ok vs SCR ,because they have the range to fight back. (Example: The combat Rifle hits 32 per bullet in 3 bullet bursts.This means if 1 bullet hits,at 1200 RoF , usually the other 2 hit too. Thats 96 Damage PER burst... AT STD level. With 5% penalty on shields and 10% bonus to armor...Having a good optimal range and better Hip fire capacity,they dont struggle so much vs SCR) AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 688	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:20:00 - [12] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: i used to think the ScR was the OP god mode gun. then i did the math. turns out, i was right. highest DPS gun in the game, beating AV weapons even. the HMG and ScrP try to come close but still fall behind a fair amout. To give you an idea, a prof5 3 dmg mods imperial ScR can do a little under 1400 dmg in a second. NOT considering charged alpha dmg. Count for 2 seconds, in that time its dished out about 2700 dmg. You are not counting the fact the Scrambler rifles have: Very high Fitting requirements ,specially PG The WORST drawback of all rifles, the Overheat mechanic. The SCR is still the BEST rifle for med ranged ONE ON ONE engagements, but to face 3+ enemies its not the best option. Main reason the SCR rifle is by far the least used rifle at the moment. AND REMEMBER, numbers are NOT everything.You ''Highest DPS'' is based on the hypothetical case one does not miss a single SHOT. Being a semi auto weapon is easier to miss Shots compared to other weapons. (specifically RR and Ar) the reasons its not overused is because people suck at aiming, the RR & CR are new and fun, and most people don't knows its potential. Fact is the moment you're accustomed to the ScR you're not going to miss often at all like scrubs do when they try it out. Then theres the fact that everybody armor tanks and is easy to hit, and the few that don't are so squishy they go down in a few shots. Honestly the overheat just does not matter much once you've learned to aim, and have the damage mods and proficiencies. And all that SHOWS IN BATTLE, if you've ever seen someone w/ prof5 3dmg mods, chances are they went 30+kills EASILY, and if you fought them they melt you instantly, because the moment you aim down your sights you're either standing still, or moving like a turtle, and the DPS of his gun being almost twice as much as any other AR, shows pretty damn quickly. You're saying the DPS doesn't matter because you can't reliably apply it- reality is you can- easily. EDIT* oh and fitting requirements do not matter- ever, i use a proto RR on caldari suits, still doesn't matter, especially since the Amarr AK.0 has almost as much PG & CPU as a logi without as many slots as other assaults, thing is ridiculously easy to fit.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3381	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:28:00 - [13] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: the reasons its not overused is because people suck at aiming, the RR & CR are new and fun, and most people don't knows its potential. Fact is the moment you're accustomed to the ScR you're not going to miss often at all like scrubs do when they try it out. Then theres the fact that everybody armor tanks and is easy to hit, and the few that don't are so squishy they go down in a few shots. Honestly the overheat just does not matter much once you've learned to aim, and have the damage mods and proficiencies. And all that SHOWS IN BATTLE, if you've ever seen someone w/ prof5 3dmg mods, chances are they went 30+kills EASILY, and if you fought them they melt you instantly, because the moment you aim down your sights you're either standing still, or moving like a turtle, and the DPS of his gun being almost twice as much as any other AR, shows pretty damn quickly. You're saying the DPS doesn't matter because you can't reliably apply it- reality is you can- easily. ''reality is you can- easily'' Not as easily as with a fully auto weapon without overheat. There by my point. BTW i usually think of the SCR rifle as a HIGH Damage rifle in order to be able to tank. IF ANYONE EVER sees me with an Imperial Ak.0,you'll notice i do run an assault with over 900HP because i DO NOT HAVE THE NEED for damage mods,since i use charged shots and aim for the head,always. This is what make The RR and SCR good weapons FOR ME.the fact they can work pretty well with HS bonuses and basic proficiency levels. ''chances are they went 30+kills EASILY'' same with Boundless CR, Six kin CR, Kaalakiota RR, Duvolle AR.... With Prof 5 and 3 dmg mods (lol) anything , even a Toxin AR will rip off your dropsuit,NO matter the dropsuit.... AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 513	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:31:00 - [14] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Bethhy wrote: SCR OHKO's proto assault suit's don't let them fool you ;) Most SCR users have charged shot's hitting at about 480-520+ damage then you add the headshot. Most brick tanked logi's limp away and are like "WTF.. even a Thales doesn't hit that hard" everyone else either dies and or is lucky. Its just got a bit to much efficiency everything else is fine. Did they fix the overheat circumvent glitch? shrugs We don't need AA no more.it hurts the game more then it helps.That or limit it to characters under 5-10m SP and it stops working.. it's just being abused and it's not the new players who benefit from it at this point. ''SCR OHKO's proto assault suit's don't let them fool you ;) '' What proto suits? Last time i checked i couldnt drop a SINGLE proto logi,since all have at least 500ARMOR (and the SCR rifle has the worst penalty at 80% vs armor) and anything with 500+ EHP can Survive. If you are talking about PROTO SCOUTS, then i agree. If you are talking about a CHARGED SHOT , PLUS headshot, i think i kind of deserve the kill, and STILL,most of the times they dont drop,making me have to use follow up shots and having to take out an SMG if there is another enemy near... ''Most SCR users have charged shot's hitting at about 480-520+ damage then you add the headshot.'' So the rifle is OP because i can aim? Because im betting a 1 on 1 firefight on ONE shot? Im still missing the point here... '' Most brick tanked logi's limp away and are like "WTF.. even a Thales doesn't hit that hard" everyone else either dies and or is lucky.'' 1 on 1 the SCR is powerful. I;ve said it, its probably the BEST 1 on 1 weapon in the game. But if you are with ANOTHER friend and you BOTH die to 1 SCR user,you are doing it wrong. ''Its just got a bit to much efficiency everything else is fine. Did they fix the overheat circumvent glitch? shrugs LOL no. In any case, making the SCR have +10% vs Shields and ONLY -10% vs armor would really fix it ;) Yea the glitch is fixed. ''We don't need AA no more.it hurts the game more then it helps.That or limit it to characters under 5-10m SP and it stops working.. it's just being abused and it's not the new players who benefit from it at this point'' Agreed 100% Before AA i felt special using the SCR rifle. After AA, not so much.... BTW , most people saying the SCR is so damn OP are probably AR users....I know bethy is.... CR and RR users are mostly ok vs SCR ,because they have the range to fight back. (Example: The combat Rifle hits 32 per bullet in 3 bullet bursts.This means if 1 bullet hits,at 1200 RoF , usually the other 2 hit too. Thats 96 Damage PER burst... AT STD level. With 5% penalty on shields and 10% bonus to armor...Having a good optimal range and better Hip fire capacity,they dont struggle so much vs SCR) Proto assault suit's probably not a logi suit just sayin... Not many logi's are running 500 armor... around 400ish also just sayin... (some high 400's) One charged shot is doing 500 damage without having to aim at anything special.. just center mass which is easy to do with hip fire+aim assist in CQC even... if your good at aiming your doing 500 dmg + headshot damage... so yeah one shotting even most logi suits. And we can't really talk about Aiming being relevant in DUST at all anymore.. its kinda lol now.. and it has nothing to do with hit detection. Most players miss the diversity DUST had when everyone had individual aiming skill, strength's and weakness's... the "gun game" everyone romanticizes about from Chromosome.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1337	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:34:00 - [15] - Quote Sam Tektzby wrote: LR - I see this "burner" more like support weapon, something like oposite of "nadespawner" (mass driver) I love the LR and it is a support weapon, with a good squad I can do well. When I used to play more and lead squads I would have two AR, a LR, a HMG and usually tried to have a two CQC guys. We had no problems except when my killers were medium range. I would drop three or four different guys shields while my CQC guys pushed and the AR mopped up my mess. By the time my HMG got there the mercs would be down or into deep armor and the CQC guys would mop up. Point is that the LR is best weapon but it is hard to use and can only be used in certain situations. It is the best support weapon and it does work well. If I wasn't such a bad shot I would be scary with the LR. No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride.
Adelia Lafayette DUST University Ivy League 494	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:36:00 - [16] - Quote I'd like to see all the rifles toned down untill the ttk is down to around 2 seconds if you stand in the open like an idiot. 3 if you brick tank, and about where it is now if someone is headshotting you. Along with the other weapons toned down a bit if needed to keep it even. Until then I'll keep cooking hotdogs on the barrel of my blaster soma. Assault dropship gets blown up.... (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"... ..."I'm back"
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3693	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:39:00 - [17] - Quote Just get rid of that damn Auto-Aim. Bam all our problems are solved.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3382	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:41:00 - [18] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Proto assault suit's probably not a logi suit just sayin... Not many logi's are running 500 armor... around 400ish also just sayin... (some high 400's) One charged shot is doing 500 damage without having to aim at anything special.. just center mass which is easy to do with hip fire+aim assist in CQC even... if your good at aiming your doing 500 dmg + headshot damage... so yeah one shotting even most logi suits. And we can't really talk about Aiming being relevant in DUST at all anymore.. its kinda lol now.. and it has nothing to do with hit detection. Most players miss the diversity DUST had when everyone had individual aiming skill, strength's and weakness's... the "gun game" everyone romanticizes about from Chromosome. ''One charged shot is doing 500 damage without having to aim at anything special.'' Im sorry , im just a little amused someone who mained AR for a long time is implying the SCR is an EZ mode gun. ''just center mass which is easy to do with hip fire+aim assist in CQC even.'' CQ hipfire needs to be addressed .I've been saying it for a long time,im not arguing the SCR is way too powerful for CQ IMO. '' if your good at aiming your doing 500 dmg + headshot damage... so yeah one shotting even most logi suits.'' DEPENDS on the logi suit fitting. a 850+ EHP CAL LOGI? a 750+ GAllente logi/Assault? I havnt seen a lot of PROTO logis with less than 605 total EHP to be quite honest. If i get a Charged shot + Headshot + while being shot at + having to eye my Overheat gauge+ with a DS3 = i think i deserve the kill.AGAIN,its not even the case most of the times. LEt me tell you what Dropsuits i've seen that have 400+ ARMOR that i've seen.Suits that can easily tank a SCR. GÖª Logis ALL of them GÖª Assault : G/1 series / Gk.0 / ak.0 / (sometimes even Ck.0) GÖª All heavies: Commando and Sentinels GÖª Scouts: Gk.0 So,this is more than HALF the dropsuits available to us. ''And we can't really talk about Aiming being relevant in DUST at all anymore.. its kinda lol now.. and it has nothing to do with hit detection.'' I agree Most players miss the diversity DUST had when everyone had individual aiming skill, strength's and weakness's... the "gun game" everyone romanticizes about from Chromosome Agreed again To be honest. I do think Rifles are balanced. I've taken out SCR rifle users with EVERY other rifle, SMG's , Shotguns ,etc... Its very player dependent. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1795	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:41:00 - [19] - Quote I have cr maxed, RR at advanced at scr at proto though I rarely use it on this char, all 3 are a beast. Still getting fked by duvolles, still getting lolstompedwtf with scr, getting ragged by RR and same with cr. They are all a beast, iv waited for cr since it was just a concept image so that's what I use and its winmatar. Ps the RR sounds like a bubble machine on roids, yeah ruined it lol. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3382	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:44:00 - [20] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Just get rid of that damn Auto-Aim. Bam all our problems are solved. what im saying. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446

Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 39	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:45:00 - [21] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Sam Tektzby wrote: LR - I see this "burner" more like support weapon, something like oposite of "nadespawner" (mass driver) I love the LR and it is a support weapon, with a good squad I can do well. When I used to play more and lead squads I would have two AR, a LR, a HMG and usually tried to have a two CQC guys. We had no problems except when my killers were medium range. I would drop three or four different guys shields while my CQC guys pushed and the AR mopped up my mess. By the time my HMG got there the mercs would be down or into deep armor and the CQC guys would mop up. Point is that the LR is best weapon but it is hard to use and can only be used in certain situations. It is the best support weapon and it does work well. If I wasn't such a bad shot I would be scary with the LR. I actually still remeber time, when LR was laserpoiter of infernal lord Luxfer XD But after that impossible nerf and fix its finally someway usefull i just dont like "shooting" with it, champion of mine is SB-39, what is actually useful for me like for support. Support - Tactician/Medic
Izlare Lenix FREE AGENTS LP 40	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:02:00 - [22] - Quote I think all the light weapons are very balanced right now. One weapon shouldn't be good in all situations. AR is a close and mid range smasher, CR is a close range beast and the burst version has decent range. RR can cqc but it's the king of long range. Scramblers are probably the most versatile but still not the best in every engagement, especially against multiple targets. Lasers are probably the weakest weapon as they are only good at range, but they still kill fast when used properly. The only problem is TTK is too fast. But that is true from ALL weapons. Buff all dropsuit HP by 25% or more and see how that increases TTK and increase player survivability.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 513	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:03:00 - [23] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Bethhy wrote: Proto assault suit's probably not a logi suit just sayin... Not many logi's are running 500 armor... around 400ish also just sayin... (some high 400's) One charged shot is doing 500 damage without having to aim at anything special.. just center mass which is easy to do with hip fire+aim assist in CQC even... if your good at aiming your doing 500 dmg + headshot damage... so yeah one shotting even most logi suits. And we can't really talk about Aiming being relevant in DUST at all anymore.. its kinda lol now.. and it has nothing to do with hit detection. Most players miss the diversity DUST had when everyone had individual aiming skill, strength's and weakness's... the "gun game" everyone romanticizes about from Chromosome. ''One charged shot is doing 500 damage without having to aim at anything special.'' Im sorry , im just a little amused someone who mained AR for a long time is implying the SCR is an EZ mode gun. ''just center mass which is easy to do with hip fire+aim assist in CQC even.'' CQ hipfire needs to be addressed .I've been saying it for a long time,im not arguing the SCR is way too powerful for CQ IMO. '' if your good at aiming your doing 500 dmg + headshot damage... so yeah one shotting even most logi suits.'' DEPENDS on the logi suit fitting. a 850+ EHP CAL LOGI? a 750+ GAllente logi/Assault? I havnt seen a lot of PROTO logis with less than 605 total EHP to be quite honest. If i get a Charged shot + Headshot + while being shot at + having to eye my Overheat gauge+ with a DS3 = i think i deserve the kill.AGAIN,its not even the case most of the times. LEt me tell you what Dropsuits i've seen that have 400+ ARMOR that i've seen.Suits that can easily tank a SCR. GÖª Logis ALL of them GÖª Assault : G/1 series / Gk.0 / ak.0 / (sometimes even Ck.0) GÖª All heavies: Commando and Sentinels GÖª Scouts: Gk.0 So,this is more than HALF the dropsuits available to us. ''And we can't really talk about Aiming being relevant in DUST at all anymore.. its kinda lol now.. and it has nothing to do with hit detection.'' I agree Most players miss the diversity DUST had when everyone had individual aiming skill, strength's and weakness's... the "gun game" everyone romanticizes about from Chromosome Agreed again To be honest. I do think Rifles are balanced. I've taken out SCR rifle users with EVERY other rifle, SMG's , Shotguns ,etc... Its very player dependent. Im just an Assault from suit to gun ;) never jumped on the logi bandwagon though I always end up regretting it at some point in the day of playing. my choice for gun was more pairing with a good assault friend with a ASCR in PC ;) nasty combo. 500 dmg for a charged shot and follow up shots and anything is dead, even 700-800 armor heavies before any decent defense can take place. i think its 400% shields 300% armor for a charged up shot efficiency? I'm just saying its a bit to high... My noob logi character one shot's alot of people with 400 armor and get's one shotted a lot with 486 armor lol180(something shield) and clone is still active. But I would start with getting rid of AA, Every shot landing being player skill based is a huge start to people getting over their death.Then gun balancing in general should wait until we get all the racial variants... How about a Hybrid side arm so the Gallente Assault suit's bonus actually makes sense. and so many more....
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 439	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:05:00 - [24] - Quote Checkmate, you dont half like to ramble on lol
Cosgar ParagonX 8924	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:11:00 - [25] - Quote Looks at proficiency 5 Freedom Mass Driver, cries I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4251	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:18:00 - [26] - Quote Everyone wants longer TTK than we currently have. Buffing all other weapons into line with Rifles doesn't give that. Nerf all Rifles - a smaller pool of weapons, meaning a smaller pool of changes - into line with the other weapons. Now, we have balance AND a long enough TTK for people to actually react to events. If you're blindsided, you're still pretty much dead, but it's not as harsh and with quick reactions and nearby cover, you have a chance to turn it around.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3383	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:35:00 - [27] - Quote Bethhy wrote: But I would start with getting rid of AA, Every shot landing being player skill based is a huge start to people getting over their death.Then gun balancing in general should wait until we get all the racial variants... How about a Hybrid side arm so the Gallente Assault suit's bonus actually makes sense. and so many more.... Agreed. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3383	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:37:00 - [28] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Everyone wants longer TTK than we currently have. Buffing all other weapons into line with Rifles doesn't give that. Nerf all Rifles - a smaller pool of weapons, meaning a smaller pool of changes - into line with the other weapons. Now, we have balance AND a long enough TTK for people to actually react to events. If you're blindsided, you're still pretty much dead, but it's not as harsh and with quick reactions and nearby cover, you have a chance to turn it around. I actually dont think we WOULD have balance. Would just be making space for weapons with SIMILAR TTK on top. You nerf Rifles, then everyone would be using Mass drivers/SMGs/SCR-P,etc.... So i dont think it would really solve the issue here... AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 747	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:40:00 - [29] - Quote Breach Rifle is OP man. No but seriously. I'm getting used to it and it's pretty nasty both at a range and in CQC. It's rate of fire and damage makes it nice at long range and if you use it properly up close, most players drop within seconds. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4251	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:43:00 - [30] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Everyone wants longer TTK than we currently have. Buffing all other weapons into line with Rifles doesn't give that. Nerf all Rifles - a smaller pool of weapons, meaning a smaller pool of changes - into line with the other weapons. Now, we have balance AND a long enough TTK for people to actually react to events. If you're blindsided, you're still pretty much dead, but it's not as harsh and with quick reactions and nearby cover, you have a chance to turn it around. I actually dont think we WOULD have balance. Would just be making space for weapons with SIMILAR TTK on top. You nerf Rifles, then everyone would be using Mass drivers/SMGs/SCR-P,etc.... So i dont think it would really solve the issue here... So you're saying that if they nerf Rifles, there will be more variety in weapons on the battlefield? And that would, by necessity, result in longer TTK than we typically see now because most of those weapons you listed don't have as short a TTK as Rifles. How is this not exactly what the game should be aiming for? You'll noticed that I said to nerf the Rifles INTO LINE WITH other weapons, not nerf them into comparative uselessness. If Rifles aren't significantly more OR less effective than other weapon options, those weapons will become viable again, and people will use them. BUT because Rifles are still an easy pick-up-and-go weapon, they'll still be more popular in general.

KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3383	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:44:00 - [31] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Breach Rifle is OP man. No but seriously. I'm getting used to it and it's pretty nasty both at a range and in CQC. It's rate of fire and damage makes it nice at long range and if you use it properly up close, most players drop within seconds. Breach AR is actually my second fav Rifle. Hip fire is Perfect. Pleas , dont spread the word XD AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
ReGnYuM Imperfects 1566	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:45:00 - [32] - Quote ScR is broken because it is better @ CQC then the AR. Don't get me started on the amarr bonus. RR should be semi auto and require pacing. <3 CR AR is meh why bother ^ Above is based on PC experience Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I learned how to make Jewelry out of Matari Flesh
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3384	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:03:00 - [33] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: ScR is broken because it is better @ CQC then the AR. Don't get me started on the amarr bonus. RR should be semi auto and require pacing. <3 CR AR is meh why bother ^ Above is based on PC experience Well you sound a little biased my friend. THe ACR and the CR feel like the best CQ weapon even if this is not its intended role. So it might be broken for other players while for you is : '' <3 '' IMO the CR is the weapon that best kicks the S*** out of me and im not requesting a nerf for it. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3384	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:08:00 - [34] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Everyone wants longer TTK than we currently have. Buffing all other weapons into line with Rifles doesn't give that. Nerf all Rifles - a smaller pool of weapons, meaning a smaller pool of changes - into line with the other weapons. Now, we have balance AND a long enough TTK for people to actually react to events. If you're blindsided, you're still pretty much dead, but it's not as harsh and with quick reactions and nearby cover, you have a chance to turn it around. I actually dont think we WOULD have balance. Would just be making space for weapons with SIMILAR TTK on top. You nerf Rifles, then everyone would be using Mass drivers/SMGs/SCR-P,etc.... So i dont think it would really solve the issue here... So you're saying that if they nerf Rifles, there will be more variety in weapons on the battlefield? And that would, by necessity, result in longer TTK than we typically see now because most of those weapons you listed don't have as short a TTK as Rifles have at present. How is this not exactly what the game should be aiming for? You'll noticed that I said to nerf the Rifles INTO LINE WITH other weapons, not nerf them into comparative uselessness. If Rifles aren't significantly more OR less effective than other weapon options, those weapons will become viable again, and people will use them. BUT because Rifles are still an easy pick-up-and-go weapon, they'll still be more popular in general. No.Im saying that if Rifles get Nerfed they will be completley REPLACED by othr weapons that have similar TTK. ASame as when the Flaylock was the easiest weapon to use with insane DPS everybody dropped rifles to use it. No.It wouldnt ''by necessity '' result in TTK increase. All weapons like SMG or SCR-P have same DPS than Light weapons,are not being used so much because of RANGE.But if yo NERF Rifles, it does not mean longer TTK,just more CQ combat. I can drop an enemy with a SCR-P in 1.5 seconds...so : '' most of those weapons you listed don't have as short a TTK as Rifles have at present.'' is not quite correct. ''You'll noticed that I said to nerf the Rifles INTO LINE WITH other weapons, not nerf them into comparative uselessness. If Rifles aren't significantly more OR less effective than other weapon options, those weapons will become viable again, and people will use them. BUT because Rifles are still an easy pick-up-and-go weapon, they'll still be more popular in general'' *This is however reasonable and i cannot say you are incorrect,but then again,it depends on what ''INTO LINE'' means....* AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4253	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:22:00 - [35] - Quote If Rifles are nerfed by a VERY small margin - like a 5% damage OR RoF (not both) nerf across the board, then any outlying high-DPS weapons that are significantly out-performing Rifles get their stats cut by a similar amount, that should increase TTK without significantly altering the landscape of weapon use. If SMGs end up with slightly higher DPS than Rifles, people will STILL use Rifles because they can kill the SMG users from well outside max SMG range. If Scrambler Pistols end up seeming OP, they might get a slight nerf as well. If this nerf makes Shotguns into the next FOTM somehow and everyone goes full CQC, I'll eat my tank.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3385	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:36:00 - [36] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: If Rifles are nerfed by a VERY small margin - like a 5% damage OR RoF (not both) nerf across the board, then any outlying high-DPS weapons that are significantly out-performing Rifles get their stats cut by a similar amount, that should increase TTK without significantly altering the landscape of weapon use. If SMGs end up with slightly higher DPS than Rifles, people will STILL use Rifles because they can kill the SMG users from well outside max SMG range. If Scrambler Pistols end up seeming OP, they might get a slight nerf as well. If this nerf makes Shotguns into the next FOTM somehow and everyone goes full CQC, I'll eat my tank. ''If Rifles are nerfed by a VERY small margin - like a 5% damage OR RoF (not both) nerf across the board, then any outlying high-DPS weapons that are significantly out-performing Rifles get their stats cut by a similar amount, that should increase TTK without significantly altering the landscape of weapon use.'' It sounds reasonable, but thanks to damage mods stacking i'm not sure it would work. I rarely use Damage mods.But if my SCR gets a 5% damage reduction i could just sacrifice 1 Shield extender and i would still be using a SCR with +5% damage at the cost of 72 shields.So , im DYING FASTER! by 72 shields, the enemy is still dying faster, by 5%. So TTK is pretty much the same.... I think a different approach should be taken . Not sure which one thou.RoF doesnt seem too appropriate either... Maybe something regarding REMOVING AA and increasing dispersion rate or..something XD ''If SMGs end up with slightly higher DPS than Rifles, people will STILL use Rifles because they can kill the SMG users from well outside max SMG range'' With slightly more SMG? yeah probably. Then again how muh DPS did the flaylock have before nerf? (not being sarcastic,im truly asking,because range meant nothing to people if they get to use the FP...) ''. If Scrambler Pistols end up seeming OP, they might get a slight nerf as well. If this nerf makes Shotguns into the next FOTM somehow and everyone goes full CQC, I'll eat my tank'' Im somehow NOT very into the way you seem to want to ''Slightly'' nerf every weapon now... XD AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Six 7 ROGUE SPADES 24	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:42:00 - [37] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: ScR is broken because it is better @ CQC then the AR. Don't get me started on the amarr bonus. RR should be semi auto and require pacing. <3 CR AR is meh why bother ^ Above is based on PC experience How would you make the RR charge time fit with single shot fire? Not trying to criticize just trying to see how you would make it workGÇª I currently love the new weapons and their balance AR is still good in Medium range and has the TAC option for range to help compete with RR's and SCR. High dps reliable. Still get burned by the people still using them. Now they Definitely fit the role of good at everything master at none. CR is a stomper in close range especially the assault version while the burst forgoes damage for accuracy and range. I Thought many times running an RR over the past week "ooooh yea I'm out of his range time to lay it thick" Catch a burst and "yep no he's still f'in dangerous" I hated it at first but I think it adds some serious dynamics to gun game and play style. RR Hits like a hammer, great counter to the SCR with its range. Charge time gives a window for flankers and closer range weaps to gain an advantage. Has drawbacks in cqc but isn't useless, feathering multiple times puts you out of the battle for 1 sec where your opponent can apply dps. 2nd highest fit requirement. SCR Uber high damage and bonus to headshotsGÇª Ability to 1HKO (yes it does, don't say it doesn't), Trigger pull speed and base damage make it dangerous everywhere but given all the damage it has the most extreme drawbacks requiring you to play smartGÇª Don't wanna play smart run the Assault version still super dangerous and the only True assault version (of any weapon) given a scope. I also think the amount of S**T bricked armor tankers will become less of an issue since most were doing it in 1.6 to counter the SCR users. New weapons make you think about encounters and diversify on the battle field. I Love it.
OmegaKelevra Dirty Merc Dirt Work Corporation 42	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:45:00 - [38] - Quote I prefer my trusty ol Exile & it comes at just the right price. Sometimes I see some bad@ss about to go kick @ss so I shoot them dead & Then shoot them again Because I hate Zombies<_<
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4256	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:13:00 - [39] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: With slightly more SMG? yeah probably. Then again how muh DPS did the flaylock have before nerf? (not being sarcastic,im truly asking,because range meant nothing to people if they get to use the FP...) The problem with Flaylock wasn't really DPS. It's a burst-damage weapon. The problem was massive splash radius and high splash damage, so it was effectively a "noobtube" - you could use it like contact grenades and just aim close to the target for a good chunk of damage. Quote: ''. If Scrambler Pistols end up seeming OP, they might get a slight nerf as well. If this nerf makes Shotguns into the next FOTM somehow and everyone goes full CQC, I'll eat my tank'' Im somehow NOT very into the way you seem to want to ''Slightly'' nerf every weapon now... XD A good majority of players who have spoken up about the topic want TTK to increase. The most popular weapons are Rifles. The only weapons that always maintain a consistent presence on the battlefield are Rifles. Other weapons are generally balanced around Rifles. Increase TTK on Rifles, and find balance from there. MOST weapons currently feel under-powered, in part because the short TTK negates the value of burst damage in most situations. Reducing the near-instakill potential of the most common DPS-based weapons will make burst weapons more viable. Any other weapon that seems to be stepping outside of being balanced would then get a nerf to bring it back into line. I'm not saying to nerf EVERY weapon, I'm saying to nerf Rifles ONLY then OBSERVE. With the Rifle nerf, assuming it's small, MOST other weapons will remain as good niche/situational weapons, and only one or two will become standout OP weapons and need nerfing. I don't know for sure which weapons those will be, but it will be easy enough to pick them once the initial nerf happens. And if you change your fit to bring a damage mod and negate the loss of 5% damage, but you're sacrificing around 15% of your eHP to do it, then go ahead, someone who DOESN'T make the change can keep their SLIGHT damage nerf and get an indirect buff because you've sacrificed more than you gained by changing your fitting. They'll get - against you, personally - about the same TTK as we have now, but you'll die faster. Right now, TTK with non-modded weapons is pretty close to where it should be with damage mods. If you're saying you'll compensate by bringing damage mods, that just means it's working.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 720	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:17:00 - [40] - Quote Lol at 'hit detection fixed' - say that to SG users. From personal experience. PLC is terrible but it would be only half as terrible if it was not glitchy as hell. I will agree with you on the fact that CCP should stop stroking AR (see AR variants - CR, etc) and fix the weapons that have been broken since Chrom. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!

KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3396	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:18:00 - [41] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: With slightly more SMG? yeah probably. Then again how muh DPS did the flaylock have before nerf? (not being sarcastic,im truly asking,because range meant nothing to people if they get to use the FP...) The problem with Flaylock wasn't really DPS. It's a burst-damage weapon. The problem was massive splash radius and high splash damage, so it was effectively a "noobtube" - you could use it like contact grenades and just aim close to the target for a good chunk of damage. Quote: ''. If Scrambler Pistols end up seeming OP, they might get a slight nerf as well. If this nerf makes Shotguns into the next FOTM somehow and everyone goes full CQC, I'll eat my tank'' Im somehow NOT very into the way you seem to want to ''Slightly'' nerf every weapon now... XD A good majority of players who have spoken up about the topic want TTK to increase. The most popular weapons are Rifles. The only weapons that always maintain a consistent presence on the battlefield are Rifles. Other weapons are generally balanced around Rifles. Increase TTK on Rifles, and find balance from there. MOST weapons currently feel under-powered, in part because the short TTK negates the value of burst damage in most situations. Reducing the near-instakill potential of the most common DPS-based weapons will make burst weapons more viable. Any other weapon that seems to be stepping outside of being balanced would then get a nerf to bring it back into line. And if you change your fit to bring a damage mod and negate the loss of 5% damage, but you're sacrificing around 15% of your eHP to do it, then go ahead, someone who DOESN'T make the change can keep their SLIGHT damage nerf and get an indirect buff because you've sacrificed more than you gained by changing your fitting. They'll get - against you, personally - about the same TTK as we have now, but you'll die faster. Right now, TTK with non-modded weapons is pretty close to where it should be with damage mods. If you're saying you'll compensate by bringing damage mods, that just means it's working. You are bringing in a lot of valid points and even if it seems you are following me around disaproving my ideas i cant hate you. BUT: I think with AA removal these HIGH DPS wont be dropping people as much. If a Duvolle fires 30 bullets FULL auto but hits 15, this already increased TTK... Im not sure you follow. I think its the BEST way to approach weapons WITHOUT the need to really nerf them, also helping weapons like the Mass driver indirectly. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
The Furtive Pygmy Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 70	Posted - 2013.12.20 05:02:00 - [42] - Quote I have proto on all rifles and the CR is the most OP in my opinion.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3396	Posted - 2013.12.20 05:03:00 - [43] - Quote The Furtive Pygmy wrote: I have proto on all rifles and the CR is the most OP in my opinion. +1 for Dark souls reference AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
GRIM GEAR NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 139	Posted - 2013.12.20 05:08:00 - [44] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Bethhy wrote: SCR OHKO's proto assault suit's don't let them fool you ;) Most SCR users have charged shot's hitting at about 480-520+ damage then you add the headshot. Most brick tanked logi's limp away and are like "WTF.. even a Thales doesn't hit that hard" everyone else either dies and or is lucky. Its just got a bit to much efficiency everything else is fine. Did they fix the overheat circumvent glitch? shrugs We don't need AA no more.it hurts the game more then it helps.That or limit it to characters under 5-10m SP and it stops working.. it's just being abused and it's not the new players who benefit from it at this point. ''SCR OHKO's proto assault suit's don't let them fool you ;) '' What proto suits? Last time i checked i couldnt drop a SINGLE proto logi,since all have at least 500ARMOR (and the SCR rifle has the worst penalty at 80% vs armor) and anything with 500+ EHP can Survive. If you are talking about PROTO SCOUTS, then i agree. If you are talking about a CHARGED SHOT , PLUS headshot, i think i kind of deserve the kill, and STILL,most of the times they dont drop,making me have to use follow up shots and having to take out an SMG if there is another enemy near... ''Most SCR users have charged shot's hitting at about 480-520+ damage then you add the headshot.'' So the rifle is OP because i can aim? Because im betting a 1 on 1 firefight on ONE shot? Im still missing the point here... '' Most brick tanked logi's limp away and are like "WTF.. even a Thales doesn't hit that hard" everyone else either dies and or is lucky.'' 1 on 1 the SCR is powerful. I;ve said it, its probably the BEST 1 on 1 weapon in the game. But if you are with ANOTHER friend and you BOTH die to 1 SCR user,you are doing it wrong. ''Its just got a bit to much efficiency everything else is fine. Did they fix the overheat circumvent glitch? shrugs LOL no. In any case, making the SCR have +10% vs Shields and ONLY -10% vs armor would really fix it ;) Yea the glitch is fixed. ''We don't need AA no more.it hurts the game more then it helps.That or limit it to characters under 5-10m SP and it stops working.. it's just being abused and it's not the new players who benefit from it at this point'' Agreed 100% Before AA i felt special using the SCR rifle. After AA, not so much.... BTW , most people saying the SCR is so damn OP are probably AR users....I know bethy is.... CR and RR users are mostly ok vs SCR ,because they have the range to fight back. (Example: The combat Rifle hits 32 per bullet in 3 bullet bursts.This means if 1 bullet hits,at 1200 RoF , usually the other 2 hit too. Thats 96 Damage PER burst... AT STD level. With 5% penalty on shields and 10% bonus to armor...Having a good optimal range and better Hip fire capacity,they dont struggle so much vs SCR) The head shot bonus needs to be reduced to 100% or the charged shot needs to go. It's a bird! No it's a plane! Never mind it's just my shotgun in your face!
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4257	Posted - 2013.12.20 05:13:00 - [45] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: You are bringing in a lot of valid points and even if it seems you are following me around disaproving my ideas i cant hate you. I'm just following the topics that interest me. You seem to show up in a lot, so obviously they interest you too. And even though some of your points are valid counters to mine, I don't hate you either. I enjoy intelligent discussions whether I'm proving myself right or being proven wrong. Quote: BUT: I think with AA removal these HIGH DPS wont be dropping people as much. AA removal weakens poor players. There are skilled players with AA turned off (and moderately skilled players with it turned off because it annoys them - like me) who don't get the benefits of AA making their shots magically hit. Quote: If a Duvolle fires 30 bullets FULL auto but hits 15, this already increased TTK... Im not sure you follow. The problem here is that a skilled player WON'T be missing half their shots. Right now, they - WITHOUT AA BECAUSE THEY TURNED IT OFF - are hitting 25/30 or more. With AA removed, they'll STILL be hitting 25/30 because they're not using it anyway. Skilled players will not be losing ANYTHING by removing AA. Only the portion of players using AA will be nerfed, and many of them only temporarily while they adjust to the change - some people were fine without AA and are fine with it, but might see a TINY loss in DPS. So after about a day or 2 without AA, only the weaker players will have their TTK increased, and the skilled players will be hitting just as hard as they always did. TTK will still be a problem as soon as a good player joins the match. The weapons themselves need some form of nerf because there will ALWAYS be skilled players getting good performance out of these weapons.


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