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BALANCING ISSUES - The Rifles

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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4251	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:18:00 - [1] - Quote Everyone wants longer TTK than we currently have. Buffing all other weapons into line with Rifles doesn't give that. Nerf all Rifles - a smaller pool of weapons, meaning a smaller pool of changes - into line with the other weapons. Now, we have balance AND a long enough TTK for people to actually react to events. If you're blindsided, you're still pretty much dead, but it's not as harsh and with quick reactions and nearby cover, you have a chance to turn it around.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4251	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:43:00 - [2] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Everyone wants longer TTK than we currently have. Buffing all other weapons into line with Rifles doesn't give that. Nerf all Rifles - a smaller pool of weapons, meaning a smaller pool of changes - into line with the other weapons. Now, we have balance AND a long enough TTK for people to actually react to events. If you're blindsided, you're still pretty much dead, but it's not as harsh and with quick reactions and nearby cover, you have a chance to turn it around. I actually dont think we WOULD have balance. Would just be making space for weapons with SIMILAR TTK on top. You nerf Rifles, then everyone would be using Mass drivers/SMGs/SCR-P,etc.... So i dont think it would really solve the issue here... So you're saying that if they nerf Rifles, there will be more variety in weapons on the battlefield? And that would, by necessity, result in longer TTK than we typically see now because most of those weapons you listed don't have as short a TTK as Rifles. How is this not exactly what the game should be aiming for? You'll noticed that I said to nerf the Rifles INTO LINE WITH other weapons, not nerf them into comparative uselessness. If Rifles aren't significantly more OR less effective than other weapon options, those weapons will become viable again, and people will use them. BUT because Rifles are still an easy pick-up-and-go weapon, they'll still be more popular in general.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4253	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:22:00 - [3] - Quote If Rifles are nerfed by a VERY small margin - like a 5% damage OR RoF (not both) nerf across the board, then any outlying high-DPS weapons that are significantly out-performing Rifles get their stats cut by a similar amount, that should increase TTK without significantly altering the landscape of weapon use. If SMGs end up with slightly higher DPS than Rifles, people will STILL use Rifles because they can kill the SMG users from well outside max SMG range. If Scrambler Pistols end up seeming OP, they might get a slight nerf as well. If this nerf makes Shotguns into the next FOTM somehow and everyone goes full CQC, I'll eat my tank.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4256	Posted - 2013.12.20 04:13:00 - [4] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: With slightly more SMG? yeah probably. Then again how muh DPS did the flaylock have before nerf? (not being sarcastic,im truly asking,because range meant nothing to people if they get to use the FP...) The problem with Flaylock wasn't really DPS. It's a burst-damage weapon. The problem was massive splash radius and high splash damage, so it was effectively a "noobtube" - you could use it like contact grenades and just aim close to the target for a good chunk of damage. Quote: ''. If Scrambler Pistols end up seeming OP, they might get a slight nerf as well. If this nerf makes Shotguns into the next FOTM somehow and everyone goes full CQC, I'll eat my tank'' Im somehow NOT very into the way you seem to want to ''Slightly'' nerf every weapon now... XD A good majority of players who have spoken up about the topic want TTK to increase. The most popular weapons are Rifles. The only weapons that always maintain a consistent presence on the battlefield are Rifles. Other weapons are generally balanced around Rifles. Increase TTK on Rifles, and find balance from there. MOST weapons currently feel under-powered, in part because the short TTK negates the value of burst damage in most situations. Reducing the near-instakill potential of the most common DPS-based weapons will make burst weapons more viable. Any other weapon that seems to be stepping outside of being balanced would then get a nerf to bring it back into line. I'm not saying to nerf EVERY weapon, I'm saying to nerf Rifles ONLY then OBSERVE. With the Rifle nerf, assuming it's small, MOST other weapons will remain as good niche/situational weapons, and only one or two will become standout OP weapons and need nerfing. I don't know for sure which weapons those will be, but it will be easy enough to pick them once the initial nerf happens. And if you change your fit to bring a damage mod and negate the loss of 5% damage, but you're sacrificing around 15% of your eHP to do it, then go ahead, someone who DOESN'T make the change can keep their SLIGHT damage nerf and get an indirect buff because you've sacrificed more than you gained by changing your fitting. They'll get - against you, personally - about the same TTK as we have now, but you'll die faster. Right now, TTK with non-modded weapons is pretty close to where it should be with damage mods. If you're saying you'll compensate by bringing damage mods, that just means it's working.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4257	Posted - 2013.12.20 05:13:00 - [5] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: You are bringing in a lot of valid points and even if it seems you are following me around disaproving my ideas i cant hate you. I'm just following the topics that interest me. You seem to show up in a lot, so obviously they interest you too. And even though some of your points are valid counters to mine, I don't hate you either. I enjoy intelligent discussions whether I'm proving myself right or being proven wrong. Quote: BUT: I think with AA removal these HIGH DPS wont be dropping people as much. AA removal weakens poor players. There are skilled players with AA turned off (and moderately skilled players with it turned off because it annoys them - like me) who don't get the benefits of AA making their shots magically hit. Quote: If a Duvolle fires 30 bullets FULL auto but hits 15, this already increased TTK... Im not sure you follow. The problem here is that a skilled player WON'T be missing half their shots. Right now, they - WITHOUT AA BECAUSE THEY TURNED IT OFF - are hitting 25/30 or more. With AA removed, they'll STILL be hitting 25/30 because they're not using it anyway. Skilled players will not be losing ANYTHING by removing AA. Only the portion of players using AA will be nerfed, and many of them only temporarily while they adjust to the change - some people were fine without AA and are fine with it, but might see a TINY loss in DPS. So after about a day or 2 without AA, only the weaker players will have their TTK increased, and the skilled players will be hitting just as hard as they always did. TTK will still be a problem as soon as a good player joins the match. The weapons themselves need some form of nerf because there will ALWAYS be skilled players getting good performance out of these weapons.

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