DUST Search - Should the Minmatar have an extra module slot?

Chunky Munkey wrote:

Magnus Amadeuss wrote:

So minmatar get:
weapons with tiny fitting requirements compared to amarrian
+ 1 armor hp/sec
+ 18% stamina
+ 5% movement speed
+ 5% sprint speed
- 45 HP
- 10% shield recharge rate

Amarr get
+33% stamina
+33% stamina recovery
+30 HP
- 1 slot
- 4% movement speed
- 4% sprint speed
The hardest weapons to fit

So I would say minmatar have it quite a bit better than amarr do.

In case you missed the trade-offs

amarr sacrifice:
movement/sprint speed for stamina/recovery
1 slot for 30 HP

minmatar sacrifice:
shield recharge rate for +1 hp/sec to armor
45 hp for more stamina, faster movement speed and faster sprint speed.

Amarrian suits have slightly higher fitting because out weapons take WAY more fittin than yours do. We have this crappy dual-tanking layout with just blows and is completely against lore/eve

Why would we factor in the fitting requirements of Minmatar weapons? We're talking about suits here.

The dual tanking setup is excellent. That's much higher regen when both your armour and shields are coming back at the same time. And that 1hp/s is a joke. It's 3 minutes just for base HP to return.

I'm willing to wager hefty isk on performance stats of Minmatar vs Amarr mediums. The idea that the Amarr have it worse than the Minmatar is absurd.

To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi.

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Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2695	Posted - 2013.12.17 20:26:00 - [1] - Quote The Amarr give up slot count & movement in favour of higher fitting capacity, higher stamina, and most importantly much greater health. It occurs to me that this exchange is not balanced when reversed for the Minmatar. They give up health & stamina for speed. That's it. Not to mention their abysmal shield stats. If we take the stamina/speed tradeoffs out of the equation, then really the Minmatar are just giving up health. If the Amarr can trade a module slot for health, why not have the Minmatar do the same? I see many on the forums who feel that the Minmatar really don't compete to the same standard other suits can, and from personal experience I can say that my best K/D performances come from my Amarr fittings not the Minatar ones. When it comes to fitting, I can't find a particularly effective Minmatar that doesn't require a fitting upgrade. The one I made that doesn't is a proto with standard weapons. I think an extra low slot on the Minmatar suits is just what they need. Their specialisation bonuses are incredibly enjoyable, but the suits themselves just don't pack the punch I'd like. TL:DR Amarr lose a slot, and get more health. Minmatar just lose health. It's not fair No.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1375	Posted - 2013.12.17 20:29:00 - [2] - Quote Buff their shield regeneration and delay :)
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 531	Posted - 2013.12.17 20:30:00 - [3] - Quote Do it Do it Do it
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 218	Posted - 2013.12.17 20:31:00 - [4] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Buff their shield regeneration and delay :) This Gÿé Syeven 514
lee corwood The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 41	Posted - 2013.12.17 20:33:00 - [5] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Buff their shield regeneration and delay :) This Second this. As a proto min logi, I carry so much equipment for my team already that I would rather have better shields honestly. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 51	Posted - 2013.12.17 20:34:00 - [6] - Quote I think a stamina boost or shield delay buff or bonus would be nice imagine the s#!t you can kill from a throne.... fu@#!n Rome.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 874	Posted - 2013.12.17 20:34:00 - [7] - Quote Just wait till all of your core upgrades are V, then come back and tell me which suit is superior. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
True Adamance Scions of Athra 4985	Posted - 2013.12.17 20:39:00 - [8] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: The Amarr give up slot count & movement in favour of higher fitting capacity, higher stamina, and most importantly much greater health. It occurs to me that this exchange is not balanced when reversed for the Minmatar. They give up health & stamina for speed. That's it. Not to mention their abysmal shield stats. If we take the stamina/speed tradeoffs out of the equation, then really the Minmatar are just giving up health. If the Amarr can trade a module slot for health, why not have the Minmatar do the same? I see many on the forums who feel that the Minmatar really don't compete to the same standard other suits can, and from personal experience I can say that my best K/D performances come from my Amarr fittings not the Minatar ones. When it comes to fitting, I can't find a particularly effective Minmatar that doesn't require a fitting upgrade. The one I made that doesn't is a proto with standard weapons. I think an extra low slot on the Minmatar suits is just what they need. Their specialisation bonuses are incredibly enjoyable, but the suits themselves just don't pack the punch I'd like. TL:DR Amarr lose a slot, and get more health. Minmatar just lose health. It's not fair We get 30 points HP at base skills for one less skill slot..... you think that's a ***** good trade? No it ***** isn't, give us Amarr another Low Slot. It only become a worth while trade off when we hit 5 across both shield and armour tanking which s twice the investment for half the effectiveness. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Cosgar ParagonX 8843	Posted - 2013.12.17 20:43:00 - [9] - Quote lee corwood wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Buff their shield regeneration and delay :) This Second this. As a proto min logi, I carry so much equipment for my team already that I would rather have better shields honestly. Thirding this. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2698	Posted - 2013.12.17 21:07:00 - [10] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Just wait till all of your core upgrades are V, then come back and tell me which suit is superior. They are. Amarr. No.

Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 776	Posted - 2013.12.17 21:09:00 - [11] - Quote Extra slot Minmatar scouts need it! Parody Dust 514 Lyrics Vote for Delt
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2698	Posted - 2013.12.17 21:25:00 - [12] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Buff their shield regeneration and delay :) That just makes them scouts though. No.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1377	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:29:00 - [13] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Buff their shield regeneration and delay :) That just makes them scouts though. Scouts are God in shield regen nothing can come close.
Dengru Fatal Absolution 219	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:42:00 - [14] - Quote swap cal assault and min slot layout 4/3 makes more sense for min and caldari should not be able to armor tank to the extent 4/3 allows them to (>^_^)><(^.^<)
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 277	Posted - 2013.12.18 00:18:00 - [15] - Quote So minmatar get: weapons with tiny fitting requirements compared to amarrian + 1 armor hp/sec + 18% stamina + 5% movement speed + 5% sprint speed - 45 HP - 10% shield recharge rate Amarr get +33% stamina +33% stamina recovery +30 HP - 1 slot - 4% movement speed - 4% sprint speed The hardest weapons to fit So I would say minmatar have it quite a bit better than amarr do. In case you missed the trade-offs amarr sacrifice: movement/sprint speed for stamina/recovery 1 slot for 30 HP minmatar sacrifice: shield recharge rate for +1 hp/sec to armor 45 hp for more stamina, faster movement speed and faster sprint speed. Amarrian suits have slightly higher fitting because out weapons take WAY more fittin than yours do. We have this crappy dual-tanking layout with just blows and is completely against lore/eve You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 398	Posted - 2013.12.18 00:45:00 - [16] - Quote As the guy above me said they get inherent armor regen something no other race gets, it's not much but it does make them unique. Amarr assaults seem to have the worse of it. Though their bonus is way cooler than the other Assaults and goes perfectly with their weapons.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2698	Posted - 2013.12.18 00:58:00 - [17] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Buff their shield regeneration and delay :) That just makes them scouts though. Scouts are God in shield regen nothing can come close. That's my point. If you want low health & great shields, just get a scout. Cal scout will dominate this area. No.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2698	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:12:00 - [18] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: So minmatar get: weapons with tiny fitting requirements compared to amarrian + 1 armor hp/sec + 18% stamina + 5% movement speed + 5% sprint speed - 45 HP - 10% shield recharge rate Amarr get +33% stamina +33% stamina recovery +30 HP - 1 slot - 4% movement speed - 4% sprint speed The hardest weapons to fit So I would say minmatar have it quite a bit better than amarr do. In case you missed the trade-offs amarr sacrifice: movement/sprint speed for stamina/recovery 1 slot for 30 HP minmatar sacrifice: shield recharge rate for +1 hp/sec to armor 45 hp for more stamina, faster movement speed and faster sprint speed. Amarrian suits have slightly higher fitting because out weapons take WAY more fittin than yours do. We have this crappy dual-tanking layout with just blows and is completely against lore/eve Why would we factor in the fitting requirements of Minmatar weapons? We're talking about suits here. The dual tanking setup is excellent. That's much higher regen when both your armour and shields are coming back at the same time. And that 1hp/s is a joke. It's 3 minutes just for base HP to return. I'm willing to wager hefty isk on performance stats of Minmatar vs Amarr mediums. The idea that the Amarr have it worse than the Minmatar is absurd. No.
True Adamance Scions of Athra 4992	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:19:00 - [19] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: So minmatar get: weapons with tiny fitting requirements compared to amarrian + 1 armor hp/sec + 18% stamina + 5% movement speed + 5% sprint speed - 45 HP - 10% shield recharge rate Amarr get +33% stamina +33% stamina recovery +30 HP - 1 slot - 4% movement speed - 4% sprint speed The hardest weapons to fit So I would say minmatar have it quite a bit better than amarr do. In case you missed the trade-offs amarr sacrifice: movement/sprint speed for stamina/recovery 1 slot for 30 HP minmatar sacrifice: shield recharge rate for +1 hp/sec to armor 45 hp for more stamina, faster movement speed and faster sprint speed. Amarrian suits have slightly higher fitting because out weapons take WAY more fittin than yours do. We have this crappy dual-tanking layout with just blows and is completely against lore/eve Why would we factor in the fitting requirements of Minmatar weapons? We're talking about suits here. The dual tanking setup is excellent. That's much higher regen when both your armour and shields are coming back at the same time. And that 1hp/s is a joke. It's 3 minutes just for base HP to return. I'm willing to wager hefty isk on performance stats of Minmatar vs Amarr mediums. The idea that the Amarr have it worse than the Minmatar is absurd. We do in some ways , and don't in others, on foot I can shield tank a Min M/1, add some remotes, a combat rifle and am tactically viable. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2699	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:23:00 - [20] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Why would we factor in the fitting requirements of Minmatar weapons? We're talking about suits here. The dual tanking setup is excellent. That's much higher regen when both your armour and shields are coming back at the same time. And that 1hp/s is a joke. It's 3 minutes just for base HP to return. I'm willing to wager hefty isk on performance stats of Minmatar vs Amarr mediums. The idea that the Amarr have it worse than the Minmatar is absurd. We do in some ways , and don't in others, on foot I can shield tank a Min M/1, add some remotes, a combat rifle and am tactically viable. Anything with a use can be tactically viable. That isn't the standard for establishing balance. No.

Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 86	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:33:00 - [21] - Quote Definitely could use a 3rd low slot on my proto minmatar assault suit. The speed doesn't help as much as you think. Its cool to move quick, but aim assist disables any attempt to dodge fire or break away from the enemy. I've been experiencing with using shield regulators and reactive armor plates. Sacrificing overall HP for minimal hp and internal rep boost to maintain speed and regulator to keep my primary shield tank as much as possible. The suit even at max armor skills and shield skills comes to mid 500eHP. Needless to say that doesn't last long at all. I usually sacrifice my damage mods on the basic and advanced suits. In pub matches it may not seem bad but facing a decent player you might as well run a militia suit for the trouble. Tried to use my proto suit with more high slots using the same low configuration and despite the lower fitting requirements of the combat rifle im gimped on both shields and armor tank and run out of CPU easily and im level 5 electronics. Using a cpu upgrade leaves you with only 1 slot for anything which breaks your options immediately. The adv and proto reactive plates (the only semi-decent) ones take up PG as well You are very limited in getting a decent hit and run suit or a front-line suit. Been using many tactics but my minmatar doesn't last long when the enemy starts concentrating their fire. I've been in gallente suits that i armor stack and had more survival time when under fire and the ability to do damage quickly with still plenty of various options depending on the situation. I even have a stealth gallente suit that can run undetected (proto scanning) and still remain combat capable. Trust in the Rust! 7-Time Matar Mass Driver World Champion Combat Rifle is for Combat!
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 369	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:43:00 - [22] - Quote Name ONE FIT with all cores at V, where a caldari can't beat it. I DARE YOU. Try shield regulation? Caldari can get an extra regulator AND 100 shield. Try kincats? Caldari can fit an extra one, easily negating your base speed, oh and did i mention 100 hp more? Try hacking? Caldari logi / min logi does this better l, and with more HP to boot. Try Sniping? Callogi can fit the same # of dmg mods, AND stack 200 shields, 600 armor. FIND A FIT, I DARE YOU. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.
True Adamance Scions of Athra 4994	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:53:00 - [23] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Name ONE FIT with all cores at V, where a caldari can't beat it. I DARE YOU. Try shield regulation? Caldari can get an extra regulator AND 100 shield. Try kincats? Caldari can fit an extra one, easily negating your base speed, oh and did i mention 100 hp more? Try hacking? Caldari logi / min logi does this better l, and with more HP to boot. Try Sniping? Callogi can fit the same # of dmg mods, AND stack 200 shields, 600 armor. FIND A FIT, I DARE YOU. Dual SMG, Damage Mods, Kin Cats.......perhaps? To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 371	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:57:00 - [24] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Name ONE FIT with all cores at V, where a caldari can't beat it. I DARE YOU. Try shield regulation? Caldari can get an extra regulator AND 100 shield. Try kincats? Caldari can fit an extra one, easily negating your base speed, oh and did i mention 100 hp more? Try hacking? Caldari logi / min logi does this better l, and with more HP to boot. Try Sniping? Callogi can fit the same # of dmg mods, AND stack 200 shields, 600 armor. FIND A FIT, I DARE YOU. Dual SMG, Damage Mods, Kin Cats.......perhaps? Alright, a caldari assault could fit TWIN ishukone assaults, 1 extra kincat, 3 damage mods AND shield extender, makes to about .3 faster sprint, 150-200 extra shield, and twin proto Smgs compared to m512 as the backup. Hell, i can't even fit an m512 with all proto modules. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2699	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:58:00 - [25] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Name ONE FIT with all cores at V, where a caldari can't beat it. I DARE YOU. Try shield regulation? Caldari can get an extra regulator AND 100 shield. Try kincats? Caldari can fit an extra one, easily negating your base speed, oh and did i mention 100 hp more? Try hacking? Caldari logi / min logi does this better l, and with more HP to boot. Try Sniping? Callogi can fit the same # of dmg mods, AND stack 200 shields, 600 armor. FIND A FIT, I DARE YOU. Dual SMG, Damage Mods, Kin Cats.......perhaps? Good luck fitting KinCats. No.
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 371	Posted - 2013.12.18 02:00:00 - [26] - Quote ^ precisely. My minassault had a MILITIA kincat, and i couldn't fit past a gn-20 specialist flaylock backup with enhanced dmg mods. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 315	Posted - 2013.12.18 02:07:00 - [27] - Quote Dengru wrote: swap cal assault and min slot layout 4/3 makes more sense for min and caldari should not be able to armor tank to the extent 4/3 allows them to Cal assaults would get what 5/2? As long as it'd Std 3/2 Adv 4/2 Proto 5/2 "May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace" - Second Corinthians chapter one verse two.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 278	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:23:00 - [28] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: So minmatar get: weapons with tiny fitting requirements compared to amarrian + 1 armor hp/sec + 18% stamina + 5% movement speed + 5% sprint speed - 45 HP - 10% shield recharge rate Amarr get +33% stamina +33% stamina recovery +30 HP - 1 slot - 4% movement speed - 4% sprint speed The hardest weapons to fit So I would say minmatar have it quite a bit better than amarr do. In case you missed the trade-offs amarr sacrifice: movement/sprint speed for stamina/recovery 1 slot for 30 HP minmatar sacrifice: shield recharge rate for +1 hp/sec to armor 45 hp for more stamina, faster movement speed and faster sprint speed. Amarrian suits have slightly higher fitting because out weapons take WAY more fittin than yours do. We have this crappy dual-tanking layout with just blows and is completely against lore/eve Why would we factor in the fitting requirements of Minmatar weapons? We're talking about suits here. The dual tanking setup is excellent. That's much higher regen when both your armour and shields are coming back at the same time. And that 1hp/s is a joke. It's 3 minutes just for base HP to return. I'm willing to wager hefty isk on performance stats of Minmatar vs Amarr mediums. The idea that the Amarr have it worse than the Minmatar is absurd. Because the suits are designed with weapon fitting requirements in-mind. 1 hp/sec is not a joke, in many instances I live/die based around a few HP. That is 20% of a free complex armor rep. Yes amarr have it worse than minmatar, I just proved it, look at the pros versus the cons, it is all right there. 1 slot is HUGE. You think you are badass... try solo'ing in amarr FW.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2703	Posted - 2013.12.18 18:47:00 - [29] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Why would we factor in the fitting requirements of Minmatar weapons? We're talking about suits here. The dual tanking setup is excellent. That's much higher regen when both your armour and shields are coming back at the same time. And that 1hp/s is a joke. It's 3 minutes just for base HP to return. I'm willing to wager hefty isk on performance stats of Minmatar vs Amarr mediums. The idea that the Amarr have it worse than the Minmatar is absurd. Because the suits are designed with weapon fitting requirements in-mind. 1 hp/sec is not a joke, in many instances I live/die based around a few HP. That is 20% of a free complex armor rep. Yes amarr have it worse than minmatar, I just proved it, look at the pros versus the cons, it is all right there. 1 slot is HUGE. EDIT: Oh and if the suits weren't designed with fitting requirements in mind, then why do all of the logis have pretty similar CPU/PG while the assaults are radically different? Why does gallente assault have a PG/CPU fitting reduction for hybrid weapons? The weapons are very important when considering fittings. The Amarr is suited to its weapon, the Minmatar is not. If you want everybody running their racial weapon then you're simply trying to undermine one of the central ideas of the game. If you live or die based on the few HP of a Minmatar rep, imagine what the much larger amount offered by the base HP of the Amarr does. 1hp/s is not 20% of a complex rep. A complex rep gives 6.25 hp/s. And if we're comparing it to a module, then that built-in rep is equivalent to an extra 13 shield HP. Whoop de-f*cking-doo. Finally; 1 slot is not a huge difference when you can't fit anything in that slot. No.
Sladen Faust Expert Intervention Caldari State 25	Posted - 2013.12.18 22:09:00 - [30] - Quote +1



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