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The scanner is a crutch

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Aisha Ctarl Scions of Athra 2241	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:06:00 - [1] - Quote I used to run the advanced scanner on nearly all my suits until one day I realized I was far too reliant on it. I decided to take it off of my templar suit and replace it with the templar uplink. First match in I was a paranoid mess. Something about not knowing where the enemy is at all times really bothered me and made me play far more timidly. Before when I did use the scanner I would scan non-stop. Spin scan, run, wait for recharge, spin scan, run, etc. Once I removed the scanner and truly realized how heavily I relied on it, I came to realize just how much of a crutch the scanner really is. I invite you to try my little experiment to see just how heavily you rely on the scanner - you may have a startling revelation. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 6278	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:10:00 - [2] - Quote I too am a crutch user. I've started dropping it in favour of remote explosives though. They're great now! ... except in FW. Don't use them in FW. Level 6 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
CrotchGrab 360 Caldari State 557	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:10:00 - [3] - Quote Thanks for being modest and ballsy enough to admit this! I personally think the scanner should be removed, all it does is allow proto-squads to stomp harder and more easily. There's nothing more depressing than knowing you can't flank the enemy team, it completely removes tactics when you know you're lit up like a Christmas tree and now there's a mad rush to see who can get to you and kill you first. It puts new players at an even bigger disadvantage and is just a way for people to get cheap kills and shoot you in the back. I'm not going to use dampeners as I don't see why I should completely change my setup and total HP just to counter one guy spinning round in a circle whilst the rest of the squad are all stacked with health modules. CCP, remove scanners, dampeners and everything related, refund ISK from skillbooks and SP and be done with it. Start introducing some tactics to this game. DUST isn't going to be any more than a casual game whilst stuff like this still exists.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2656	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:11:00 - [4] - Quote The irony is that CCP's intention was probably to encourage as much squad play as possible. Instead nanohives were replaced by scanners as the No1 lone wolf equipment item. No.
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 661	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:11:00 - [5] - Quote Stopped once I got my advanced drop-uplinks. Wasn't much of a difference. When I had the scanner it was basically "Oh. Look at those bajillion guys in that waves hand general direction. I should avoid that." I can still tell when there's a bunch of mercs grouped up so I can easily avoid that still. EDIT: Actually, I only used them when I was squaded up. As a logi, i'd have a fit with hives and one fit with nothing but D-uplinks (for the beginning of matches) when I wasn't in a squad. That "bajillion guys" thing was for those few times where I somehow ended up using the "REZ, REP, SCAN" fit when I didn't mean to. Usually this was because it was the last I used and I didn't change the fit at the beginning. My logi-code.
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 668	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:12:00 - [6] - Quote Having an Alt that runs mk.0 Scout with Complex Damps on is a real nice change of pace to my ak.0 (By change of pace i mean zooming around the map :D) The passive scanning help a lot though I must say The Sinwarden
Cpl Foster USMC The Defiants-Team 6 356	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:14:00 - [7] - Quote never used one...never will.... how the hell are some of you isk poor...??...free isk is everywhere.....
Uncle AWOL Protheans The Renegades of the Untold Truth 45	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:14:00 - [8] - Quote I have actually never even held an active scanner I wonder what they look like.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2656	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:18:00 - [9] - Quote Cpl Foster USMC wrote: never used one...never will.... charges knives No.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1229	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:20:00 - [10] - Quote My idea on fixing scanners, My goal give a scanner drawbacks, make it more squad oriented than solo gain! 1) Remove Scan Time, Charge Time -Replace with Pulse Interval 2) Tag Data only updates every pulse 3) Tag Data is only available while scanner is equipped 4) As unique buff to Scouts, they can run the scanner with their sidearm on hip-fire only! For a good idea, think of the movement scanners from aliens! Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3214	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:20:00 - [11] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: I used to run the advanced scanner on nearly all my suits until one day I realized I was far too reliant on it. I decided to take it off of my templar suit and replace it with the templar uplink. First match in I was a paranoid mess. Something about not knowing where the enemy is at all times really bothered me and made me play far more timidly. Before when I did use the scanner I would scan non-stop. Spin scan, run, wait for recharge, spin scan, run, etc. Once I removed the scanner and truly realized how heavily I relied on it, I came to realize just how much of a crutch the scanner really is. I invite you to try my little experiment to see just how heavily you rely on the scanner - you may have a startling revelation. HAHA why? I already know the A.Scanners are Overpowered, i know i depend on them to win,i use them because they are the only true counter to themselves..... AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
CrotchGrab 360 Caldari State 558	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:26:00 - [12] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: I used to run the advanced scanner on nearly all my suits until one day I realized I was far too reliant on it. I decided to take it off of my templar suit and replace it with the templar uplink. First match in I was a paranoid mess. Something about not knowing where the enemy is at all times really bothered me and made me play far more timidly. Before when I did use the scanner I would scan non-stop. Spin scan, run, wait for recharge, spin scan, run, etc. Once I removed the scanner and truly realized how heavily I relied on it, I came to realize just how much of a crutch the scanner really is. I invite you to try my little experiment to see just how heavily you rely on the scanner - you may have a startling revelation. HAHA why? I already know the A.Scanners are Overpowered, i know i depend on them to win,i use them because they are the only true counter to themselves..... this it the thing, if i play DUST again, i'll just HAVE to use one. there's no other option.
jordy mack Ultramarine Corp 55	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:28:00 - [13] - Quote Aww arnt u guys just so nice, I'll be sure to only use UP weapons from now on, and if I come up behind someone I shall anounce myself and only engage if its a fair fight. Are u guys playing with a team? Or do u all just lone wolf every match?
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 1067	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:30:00 - [14] - Quote No sh-ít, Sherlock! Throw some dampeners on and see how much better you do as well. You can walk up to Nyain San and shoot all of them dead from 3m out.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1535	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:32:00 - [15] - Quote I use my gun more then my scanner that's the bigger crutch. I have trouble thinking of the scanner as a crutch bvecause all teh tool I bring to the battle field are useful and I use them all frequently.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3216	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:33:00 - [16] - Quote jordy mack wrote: Aww arnt u guys just so nice, I'll be sure to only use UP weapons from now on, and if I come up behind someone I shall anounce myself and only engage if its a fair fight. Are u guys playing with a team? Or do u all just lone wolf every match? I lone wolf pretty much every match. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3216	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:33:00 - [17] - Quote 8213 wrote: No sh-ít, Sherlock! Throw some dampeners on and see how much better you do as well. You can walk up to Nyain San and shoot all of them dead from 3m out. nono, i've done that with 28- db and after 2 or 3 kills they take out a duvolle focused. It doesnt work like that. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 420	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:36:00 - [18] - Quote The only time I use the scanner is when I run a Breach Shotgun scout. Even then, the enemy has scanners and may be able to tell exactly where I am thus nullifying the benefit. Even if they can't scan me, they know I am there. And then, they know to watch their back, especially if they get scanned. reminisces about shotgunning before scanners
Fiddler Galaine Northwind Alliance Dark Taboo 53	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:37:00 - [19] - Quote Scanners were already nerfed in a way - they can't be cancelled any more.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3217	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:42:00 - [20] - Quote Fiddler Galaine wrote: Scanners were already nerfed in a way - they can't be cancelled any more. ( -.- ) THAY HAVNT BEEN NERFED. They fixed a glitch. They are still as OP as always. Main reason im so against them is A.Scanners have taken scouts out of the competitive side of Dust514. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446

Dengru Fatal Absolution 217	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:43:00 - [21] - Quote I think people's cluessness is also the fault of poor sound design. At the least people's footsteps should be louder and the whooshing noises equipment makes should be lowered (>^_^)><(^.^<)
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 843	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:47:00 - [22] - Quote Well, it's not a crutch for a scout/light suit. That is actually what that suit is for. Wish they'd make it a scout suit only tool. Make it worthless with out the bonuses from the scout suit. Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1126	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:48:00 - [23] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Fiddler Galaine wrote: Scanners were already nerfed in a way - they can't be cancelled any more. ( -.- ) THAY HAVNT BEEN NERFED. They fixed a glitch. They are still as OP as always. Main reason im so against them is A.Scanners have taken scouts out of the competitive side of Dust514. True. Seems like CCP knows this though and is planning on providing some CPU/PG incentive for scouts using them and a penalty for the rest of us. At least that is what the interview in the recent dev blog seemed to imply. Fun > Realism
Nestil Seraphim Auxiliaries 94	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:57:00 - [24] - Quote i love farming proto logis that rely soley on their scanners. but need to spec more deeper into dampening skills so i dont need to sacrifice slots on my paper suit.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 95	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:12:00 - [25] - Quote I agree and disagree with you, I went through the same thing as you when Scanners first came out, but as time passed I've found out what the problem is, we are greedy. The only thing that carries the power of the Scanner are Scouts, no one wants to use Scouts, but they want the perks of using them, so we settle for the scanning abilities of the Scouts without any of the drawbacks. I've been developing new fits designed maximize the use of Scanners and I can easily say, they don't work well for every fit, that's not to say they don't benefit most fits. The whole "crutch" problem isn't with Scanners, it's with the players using the Scanners, if you're using an AR with a Flux than you are wasting it, but no one really cares cause they aren't suffering a penalty for it's misuse. I think if Scanners exposed the user's Scan Profile to it's target's Scan Precision people would be less inclined to over-use them, this would also make Dampening more useful too everyone other than just Scouts, without overshadowing Scouts. An explanation of what I just said: If I scan 4 red dots with my Flux from 80 meters away, these reds have a chance of also seeing me as I would see them, so if my SP (Scan Profile) is 45 and one of the red dots has a S-Precision of 43, he can see me for as long as my Scanner is on him, so the risk in using a Scanner comes from the threat of broadcasting your location.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 95	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:13:00 - [26] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Fiddler Galaine wrote: Scanners were already nerfed in a way - they can't be cancelled any more. ( -.- ) THAY HAVNT BEEN NERFED. They fixed a glitch. They are still as OP as always. Main reason im so against them is A.Scanners have taken scouts out of the competitive side of Dust514. True. Seems like CCP knows this though and is planning on providing some CPU/PG incentive for scouts using them and a penalty for the rest of us. At least that is what the interview in the recent dev blog seemed to imply. They said nothing of a penalty, they only spoke of giving more incentive to using them on Scouts.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3221	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:15:00 - [27] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Well, it's not a crutch for a scout/light suit. That is actually what that suit is for. Wish they'd make it a scout suit only tool. Make it worthless with out the bonuses from the scout suit. This is not an original idea. Still the best idea. +1 Aajli. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3221	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:16:00 - [28] - Quote Nestil wrote: i love farming proto logis that rely soley on their scanners. but need to spec more deeper into dampening skills so i dont need to sacrifice slots on my paper suit. WHAT? even at Level 5 scout and Level 5 dampening you will get scanned by Proto scanners. You'll need to add 1 Basic Prof dampener to avoid Proto scanners. So you will STILL be wasting that 1 low slot. And you need 4 COMPLEX PROF dampeners to avoid the Duvolle Focused active scanner. LOL. ON A SCOUT.... AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 192	Posted - 2013.12.16 08:38:00 - [29] - Quote I thought this was gonna be a QQ thread, you are right it is, but thats partly due to too many people soloing every squad should have one tho.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 309	Posted - 2013.12.16 09:30:00 - [30] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Nestil wrote: i love farming proto logis that rely soley on their scanners. but need to spec more deeper into dampening skills so i dont need to sacrifice slots on my paper suit. WHAT? even at Level 5 scout and Level 5 dampening you will get scanned by Proto scanners. You'll need to add 1 Basic Prof dampener to avoid Proto scanners. So you will STILL be wasting that 1 low slot. And you need 4 COMPLEX PROF dampeners to avoid the Duvolle Focused active scanner. LOL. ON A SCOUT.... That's how it should be. Its a proto scanner. The best proto scanner. It better pick up everything. If someone paid the money for the best, nothing should get through. The problem with scanners is getting a 360 field view regardless of what you use. Whether I run a standard or a proto scanner, I still get 360 intel. I think if puling the trigger stopped all movement until the scan was completed, that would make those scan degrees matter. Everyone should be scanned by the best scanner, regardless of dampening. But the best scanner shouldn't be able to give you 360 degrees of scanning. Locking movement and looking around during a scan makes scanning much more tactical, and gives those dampened scout a fighting chance, since if they're not in the scan area, they are still unnoticed.



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