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BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1255	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:30:00 - [1] - Quote Tanks are not OP. Saying it right now whether u agree or not. doesn't matter read either way. Tanks are cheap and even milita tanks r effective, and are easily good enough to beat a better tank. It's about the same difference from milita to std suits. 1 has clear advantage, but it could go either way. now milita vehciles and mods are avaliable to everyone so there is no excuse why u can't use one if needed. This also adds a layer of vehicle gameplay into dust and not just infantry. Another thing this does is allow for more tank duels and being a force to be reckoned with. AV is used to make a vehicle leave or give another vehicle an advantage in tank v tank, just like a sniper would to infantry. On the same note thou i would like to say the turrets do need to be tweaked esspecially the rail. After playing a few days i have come to this conclusion, Also don't give me this ISK crap. u infantry were the same ones to say isk does not balance the game so STFU. Tank driver. 10 mil SP in tanks 8 mil into infantry. Msg my main BobThe843CakeMan I ring for everyone. :D
Our Deepest Regret The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 356	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:35:00 - [2] - Quote Forge gunners kill tanks. Remote explosives kill tanks. Rail installations kill tanks. Sicas with milita rail turrets kill tanks. Jihad jeeps kill tanks. So many ways to kill tanks. If you let someone go 30-0 on you in a madrugar, it's because you're on a bad random team.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 227	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:42:00 - [3] - Quote What about the rail needs to be changed? Also, do you know if there is anything that prevents me from running multiple damage amps at the same time? If I activate 2 or 3 at the same time, is there a stacking penalty for the damage bonus? I haven't had enough time to test the glass cannon fits. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1256	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:44:00 - [4] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: What about the rail needs to be changed? Also, do you know if there is anything that prevents me from running multiple damage amps at the same time? If I activate 2 or 3 at the same time, is there a stacking penalty for the damage bonus? I haven't had enough time to test the glass cannon fits. well as of now rail has higher damage than the old compressed railgun and higher RoF. And back then tanks had higher hit points to deal with. even against a blaster or missile in close quarters a rail still wins. a rail should be a long range to mid range weapin and not used at close quarters and still bee number one. prehaps if it had an effect where it started off low damage and increased the longer it traveled it would be better. obiously with a cap at the damage it has now. Tank driver. 10 mil SP in tanks 8 mil into infantry. Msg my main BobThe843CakeMan I ring for everyone. :D
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1963	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:45:00 - [5] - Quote The cost itself doesn't really matter. However there should be an actual consequence to losing HAVs, similar to how there is a consequence to losing a PRO dropsuit. This super low price currently does nothing but encourage vehicle spam. And MLT vehicles shouldn't be good or nearly as good as the other variants in the same sense that a MLT or [Starter] fit isn't nearly as good as a STD/ADV/PRO dropsuit fitting. Also, this current build gives literally no incentive to use AV. Tell me, why would people use AV when a MLT tank is better than PRO AV in every condition way shape or form. Also, AV is supposed to be Anti-Vehicle. Meaning "Anti". Not tickle the target so that the other vehicle can take it down. Being the best counter to yourselves is OP. DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Cosgar ParagonX 8645	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:46:00 - [6] - Quote No QQ here. I'm loving the tank spam. The game feels like something more than a free to play CoD with such a strong vehicle presence. It's not perfectly balanced (yet) but it's fun as hell, even from a purely infantry perspective. But, I don't expect vehicle prices to stay exactly the same, not as a balancing point anyway. CCP is probably in full on data collection mode and with all vehicles so accessible, it makes the job that much easier. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a vehicle based event around the corner. Whether to collect data or not, it's long overdue. One thing that 1.7 exposed however, is that there are a lot of spoiled infantry and "dedicated" AV out there that got soft ofer the past 6 months, still using the same tactics and expecting the same results as when vehicles were utterly crippled in Uprising 1.0-1.6. The irony is that vehicles (especially tanks) are even more squishy but can only have short engagements before having to haul ass and heal/restock. It's very much what infantry combat should be. Once people stop QQing and step their game up a bit (with some minor tweaks to balancing) the growing pains will subside and people can go back to crying about logis, mass drivers, or whatever the hell else they'd rather blame over their own shortcomings. At the end of the day, you gotta give Wolfman respect. He's doing Obama tier work when it comes to making Dust fun again. Now, who's lamb do I have to glaze to get RE's buffed so I don't have to use 4 boundless to take out a MLT tank? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1213	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:48:00 - [7] - Quote Honestly installations are kinda scary as **** now, especially missiles installations that get the full DPS benefit without any need to reload. The one and only issue I have with tanks right now is the speed. Base speed is REALLY high, and while a tank should be able to flee if it needs to, the ability to practically fly across the map is a little much. As a tanker though I love that I"m no longer terrified to see infantry, because now I can actually afford to lose a tank in a match and not be in the red for the next hour. It also encourages a lot of tank vs tank combat which is something I always loved seeing in Dust trailers but never experienced in-game. Now there are always targets being dropped in we get some of these epic 3 vs 3 tank battles that I've dreamed of. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Poultryge1st Da Short Buss 16	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:49:00 - [8] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Tanks are not OP. Saying it right now whether u agree or not. doesn't matter read either way. Tanks are cheap and even milita tanks r effective, and are easily good enough to beat a better tank. It's about the same difference from milita to std suits. 1 has clear advantage, but it could go either way. now milita vehciles and mods are avaliable to everyone so there is no excuse why u can't use one if needed. This also adds a layer of vehicle gameplay into dust and not just infantry. Another thing this does is allow for more tank duels and being a force to be reckoned with. AV is used to make a vehicle leave or give another vehicle an advantage in tank v tank, just like a sniper would to infantry. On the same note thou i would like to say the turrets do need to be tweaked esspecially the rail. After playing a few days i have come to this conclusion, Also don't give me this ISK crap. u infantry were the same ones to say isk does not balance the game so STFU. I completely agree, and I have been enjoying the new tank battles so much!
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1257	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:50:00 - [9] - Quote Atiim wrote: The cost itself doesn't really matter. However there should be an actual consequence to losing HAVs, similar to how there is a consequence to losing a PRO dropsuit. This super low price currently does nothing but encourage vehicle spam. And MLT vehicles shouldn't be good or nearly as good as the other variants in the same sense that a MLT or [Starter] fit isn't nearly as good as a STD/ADV/PRO dropsuit fitting. Also, this current build gives literally no incentive to use AV. Tell me, why would people use AV when a MLT tank is better than PRO AV in every condition way shape or form. Also, AV is supposed to be Anti-Vehicle. Meaning "Anti". Not tickle the target so that the other vehicle can take it down. Being the best counter to yourselves is OP. in PC proto forges still ** me the ** off and end up making the other tank win in a tank v tank fight. AV is still there. but i do agree points for vehicle damage would make it a lot better. i think MLT tanks should be, just as a milita dropsuit can kill proto a MLT tank should be able to do the same. This also encourages more ppl to become tank drivers as it doesn't take a lot of SP anymore to make a decent tank. Light av should not hurt like it does now and heavy av should like it does now. no change is needed. Tank driver. 10 mil SP in tanks 8 mil into infantry. Msg my main BobThe843CakeMan I ring for everyone. :D
Cosgar ParagonX 8647	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:51:00 - [10] - Quote Forgot to mention: instillations will **** a tanker's day up, even with full hardeners on. They could use a significant HP buff and/or re-deploy over the course of a match. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8743	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:52:00 - [11] - Quote There's no risk vs reward to tanking, and you can hop into it with basically no SP investment on your part to speak of. It's stupid right now because there isn't even a point to killing the tank other than to stop him getting free kills. I can't tell you how many times I zero in on a soma or sica that's been terrorizing all match, and once it gets even close to popping, the pilot just hops out and runs away. Why? Because it costs him next to nothing and he's already raked in a ton of kills off of players far more skilled than him. Tanks are stupid right now because there's no risk to run them vs the reward of running them, exactly opposite of the risk required to take them down, vs the lack of reward for doing so. Vids / O7
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1257	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:55:00 - [12] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: There's no risk vs reward to tanking, and you can hop into it with basically no SP investment on your part to speak of. It's stupid right now because there isn't even a point to killing the tank other than to stop him getting free kills. I can't tell you how many times I zero in on a soma or sica that's been terrorizing all match, and once it gets even close to popping, the pilot just hops out and runs away. Why? Because it costs him next to nothing and he's already raked in a ton of kills off of players far more skilled than him. Tanks are stupid right now because there's no risk to run them vs the reward of running them, exactly opposite of the risk required to take them down, vs the lack of reward for doing so. u can bring in a tank to counter them. tht's why we have milita tanks. it's the same with a sniper. would u use a heavy to counter a sniper shooting him? no. you would use another sniper. same logic Tank driver. 10 mil SP in tanks 8 mil into infantry. Msg my main BobThe843CakeMan I ring for everyone. :D
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 199	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:55:00 - [13] - Quote No not you . I seen you giving someone else the business for saying the same and now look at you . I wish I could remember the thread so I can put it out there so everyone could see .. you need to find the person who you were talking $h!t to and apologize to them . Man I wish I could remember the thread so I could pull up what you said and how you were giving that OP such a hard time ... and look at you now . I know you know who and what I'm talking about BOB . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
ALT2 acc The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 22	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:00:00 - [14] - Quote Atiim wrote: The cost itself doesn't really matter. However there should be an actual consequence to losing HAVs, similar to how there is a consequence to losing a PRO dropsuit. This super low price currently does nothing but encourage vehicle spam. And MLT vehicles shouldn't be good or nearly as good as the other variants in the same sense that a MLT or [Starter] fit isn't nearly as good as a STD/ADV/PRO dropsuit fitting. Also, this current build gives literally no incentive to use AV. Tell me, why would people use AV when a MLT tank is better than PRO AV in every condition way shape or form. Also, AV is supposed to be Anti-Vehicle. Meaning "Anti". Not tickle the target so that the other vehicle can take it down. Being the best counter to yourselves is OP. it takes 1 match to restock a maddy, tanking is viable/profitable now, people who spam tanks have alot of isk or go broke
ALT2 acc The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 22	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:02:00 - [15] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: There's no risk vs reward to tanking, and you can hop into it with basically no SP investment on your part to speak of. It's stupid right now because there isn't even a point to killing the tank other than to stop him getting free kills. I can't tell you how many times I zero in on a soma or sica that's been terrorizing all match, and once it gets even close to popping, the pilot just hops out and runs away. Why? Because it costs him next to nothing and he's already raked in a ton of kills off of players far more skilled than him. Tanks are stupid right now because there's no risk to run them vs the reward of running them, exactly opposite of the risk required to take them down, vs the lack of reward for doing so. thats a MLT tank problem, maddy fits cost at least 211k for a std blaster on it. ps people with alot of money spam proto so.....
Panoscape BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 170	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:05:00 - [16] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: u can bring in a tank to counter them. tht's why we have milita tanks. it's the same with a sniper. would u use a heavy to counter a sniper shooting him? no. you would use another sniper. same logic Dude, I use my heavy all the time to crush snipers. LAV pop and drops and DS pop and drops. It's so fun to pop out of a dropship on top of a tower and clear all the snipers squatting in a row. BTW, tanks are super fun now and my triple dam. mod proto swarmer still kills tanks so I'm happy. See ya out there.
maeth-01 2501 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 10	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:06:00 - [17] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Tanks are not OP. Saying it right now whether u agree or not. doesn't matter read either way. Tanks are cheap and even milita tanks r effective, and are easily good enough to beat a better tank. It's about the same difference from milita to std suits. 1 has clear advantage, but it could go either way. now milita vehciles and mods are avaliable to everyone so there is no excuse why u can't use one if needed. This also adds a layer of vehicle gameplay into dust and not just infantry. Another thing this does is allow for more tank duels and being a force to be reckoned with. AV is used to make a vehicle leave or give another vehicle an advantage in tank v tank, just like a sniper would to infantry. On the same note thou i would like to say the turrets do need to be tweaked esspecially the rail. After playing a few days i have come to this conclusion, Also don't give me this ISK crap. u infantry were the same ones to say isk does not balance the game so STFU. Hahaha...... AV is used to make vehicles leave or give someone else the advantage like a sniper....lol AV is ment to take out vehicles fullstop that's the hole idea of AV...... and a snipers jobe is to kill someone with one shot. If one side has tanks as far as your concerned they should win, the idea of AV is to give people without tanks the chance to kick tank arse.... granted balancing does need to be looked at big time, but Av does need to be a little bit better .. just for there sake..... swarms arepointless now because of there speed *Laugh, and the world laughs with you;Weep, and you weep alone*
Our Deepest Regret The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 358	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:07:00 - [18] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: There's no risk vs reward to tanking, and you can hop into it with basically no SP investment on your part to speak of. It's stupid right now because there isn't even a point to killing the tank other than to stop him getting free kills. I can't tell you how many times I zero in on a soma or sica that's been terrorizing all match, and once it gets even close to popping, the pilot just hops out and runs away. Why? Because it costs him next to nothing and he's already raked in a ton of kills off of players far more skilled than him. Tanks are stupid right now because there's no risk to run them vs the reward of running them, exactly opposite of the risk required to take them down, vs the lack of reward for doing so. I've only got 20 million isk, DF. I run complex mods on my Gunny with an advanced missile turret, and it currently costs exactly 300,885 isk to replace it. Losing it hurts. I'm planning a marathon AFK fest to shore up my finances and to prepare for the additional expense of a proto turret.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8743	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:10:00 - [19] - Quote Our Deepest Regret wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: There's no risk vs reward to tanking, and you can hop into it with basically no SP investment on your part to speak of. It's stupid right now because there isn't even a point to killing the tank other than to stop him getting free kills. I can't tell you how many times I zero in on a soma or sica that's been terrorizing all match, and once it gets even close to popping, the pilot just hops out and runs away. Why? Because it costs him next to nothing and he's already raked in a ton of kills off of players far more skilled than him. Tanks are stupid right now because there's no risk to run them vs the reward of running them, exactly opposite of the risk required to take them down, vs the lack of reward for doing so. I've only got 20 million isk, DF. I run complex mods on my Gunny with an advanced missile turret, and it currently costs exactly 300,885 isk to replace it. Losing it hurts my finances. (Losing it to a rail gun sica hurts my PRIDE). I'm planning a marathon AFK fest to shore up my finances and to prepare for the additional expense of a proto turret. 300K is free as far as tanks are concerned Vids / O7
Panoscape BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 170	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:11:00 - [20] - Quote maeth-01 2501 wrote: swarms arepointless now because of there speed They're pointless in the hands of people who don't know where and how to use them. In one match I popped two tanks and a dropship all by myself with my nerfed swarms. It's now critical where you're set up in order to do this, in other words, it now takes skill to use swarms.

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8743	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:12:00 - [21] - Quote Panoscape wrote: maeth-01 2501 wrote: swarms arepointless now because of there speed They're pointless in the hands of people who don't know where and how to use them. In one match I popped two tanks and a dropship all by myself with my nerfed swarms. It's now critical where you're set up in order to do this, in other words, it now takes skill to use swarms. Also pray that they didn't equip nitrous or afterburners, or that they're asleep at the wheel. Vids / O7
Our Deepest Regret The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 358	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:16:00 - [22] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Our Deepest Regret wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: There's no risk vs reward to tanking, and you can hop into it with basically no SP investment on your part to speak of. It's stupid right now because there isn't even a point to killing the tank other than to stop him getting free kills. I can't tell you how many times I zero in on a soma or sica that's been terrorizing all match, and once it gets even close to popping, the pilot just hops out and runs away. Why? Because it costs him next to nothing and he's already raked in a ton of kills off of players far more skilled than him. Tanks are stupid right now because there's no risk to run them vs the reward of running them, exactly opposite of the risk required to take them down, vs the lack of reward for doing so. I've only got 20 million isk, DF. I run complex mods on my Gunny with an advanced missile turret, and it currently costs exactly 300,885 isk to replace it. Losing it hurts my finances. (Losing it to a rail gun sica hurts my PRIDE). I'm planning a marathon AFK fest to shore up my finances and to prepare for the additional expense of a proto turret. 300K is free as far as tanks are concerned Now, this just may be me being Jewish, but WHAAAAAT??? DF, when I'm in a match pitting myself against good tankers, I've got a good chance of losing two or three tanks in the broo-jah. I've been known to lose six when I get pissed off enough to keep throwing myself into the grinder. There's this guy named FrAgMaTiZeD, that just makes me crazy. I need to kill him at least 20 times in a row, in order to make things square between us. I need my money, man.
HiddenBrother Days of Ruin 11	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:39:00 - [23] - Quote I'm sure Bob was in another thread; stating how OP his tank hardeners were. That may be the opinion of anyone who sits in a tank, and absorbs a few volleys of militia swarms. Then you get hit by ProtoSwarms/Forge, Railgun Tanks/Installations, Sticky explosives/Kamikaze LAVs, and you start to realize that you aren't an invincible powerhouse as everyone makes you out to be. Ruin.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1605	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:43:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: The cost itself doesn't really matter. However there should be an actual consequence to losing HAVs, similar to how there is a consequence to losing a PRO dropsuit. This super low price currently does nothing but encourage vehicle spam. And MLT vehicles shouldn't be good or nearly as good as the other variants in the same sense that a MLT or [Starter] fit isn't nearly as good as a STD/ADV/PRO dropsuit fitting. Also, this current build gives literally no incentive to use AV. Tell me, why would people use AV when a MLT tank is better than PRO AV in every condition way shape or form. Also, AV is supposed to be Anti-Vehicle. Meaning "Anti". Not tickle the target so that the other vehicle can take it down. Being the best counter to yourselves is OP. Solutions: Nerf militia tanks (who is going to complain about a militia item getting nerfed?) and more importantly MOOOOOOAAAAAAAR WP FOR AV Making AV an actual role GÿåTank DriverGÿå
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1605	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:48:00 - [25] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: There's no risk vs reward to tanking, and you can hop into it with basically no SP investment on your part to speak of. It's stupid right now because there isn't even a point to killing the tank other than to stop him getting free kills. I can't tell you how many times I zero in on a soma or sica that's been terrorizing all match, and once it gets even close to popping, the pilot just hops out and runs away. Why? Because it costs him next to nothing and he's already raked in a ton of kills off of players far more skilled than him. Tanks are stupid right now because there's no risk to run them vs the reward of running them, exactly opposite of the risk required to take them down, vs the lack of reward for doing so. Please specify MILITIA TANKS Making AV an actual role GÿåTank DriverGÿå
R F Gyro Clones 4u 814	Posted - 2013.12.14 00:26:00 - [26] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Also don't give me this ISK crap. u infantry were the same ones to say isk does not balance the game so STFU. I've got to pick up on this, so pardon the selective quoting. When we said "you can't balance on ISK" we meant "don't make one player in a tank fundamentally stronger than one player not in a tank". We didn't mean "make tanks cheaper as well as stronger than infantry". RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
crazy space 1 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 2082	Posted - 2013.12.14 00:32:00 - [27] - Quote If they had less top speed and we had web mines prox mines do 750 damage whats with that? I'd say remove prox mines alltogether, make them web mines. When someone comes into range it's set offand give a debuff, 50% speed. Making it possible to run up in a fast scout and lob remote mines n the tank. Then take out a pistole and blow the tank to pieces. I like how awesome tanks are, but if we can't trap them there is nothing we can do. I like the balance keep it. In my last game we had a tanker ramming other tanks just to stop them from being able to move. This works really well on the soma, that thing turns like a brick. Trapping tanks and keeping them from moving is the way to kill tanks. At one point I threw 4 remote mines on the tank my friend had up against a wall. He blew up my friends tank , fully repped his shields and started to afterburn away when I waited to blow him up :P
Bubbles moon Algintal Core Gallente Federation 45	Posted - 2013.12.14 00:36:00 - [28] - Quote Since tanks are so good now, I agree with nerfing the hp but not the fittings of the miltia tanks. Doesn't anyone remember in the 1st build when prototype suits had more hp than militia? omg... is that the change we need to bring back to the game?
Our Deepest Regret The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 363	Posted - 2013.12.14 00:48:00 - [29] - Quote Bubbles moon wrote: Since tanks are so good now, I agree with nerfing the hp but not the fittings of the miltia tanks. Doesn't anyone remember in the 1st build when prototype suits had more hp than militia? omg... is that the change we need to bring back to the game? I just don't feel that it's fair that a militia rail sica can bust my gunlogi in around four shots, when I have my hardeners up. Let me specify that this is a militia turret. Yes, I can easily destroy him in one clip if I can turn around in time, but is it sensible giving them that much killing power right out the gate? Militia vehicles should give you a taste of what's to come, not the whole damn buffet. Their ridiculous performance is going to get vehicles in general wtf-nerfed.
Cosgar ParagonX 8650	Posted - 2013.12.14 00:55:00 - [30] - Quote Our Deepest Regret wrote: Bubbles moon wrote: Since tanks are so good now, I agree with nerfing the hp but not the fittings of the miltia tanks. Doesn't anyone remember in the 1st build when prototype suits had more hp than militia? omg... is that the change we need to bring back to the game? I just don't feel that it's fair that a militia rail sica can bust my gunlogi in around four shots, when I have my hardeners up. Let me specify that this is a militia turret. Yes, I can easily destroy him in one clip if I can turn around in time, but is it sensible giving them that much killing power right out the gate? Militia vehicles should give you a taste of what's to come, not the whole damn buffet. Their ridiculous performance is going to get vehicles in general wtf-nerfed. A militia AR can wreck a proto suit in no time. What's the difference? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"



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