so now you need teamwork to kill tanks and can no longer do it solo????

I wonder

hint hint*

so now you need teamwork to kill tanks and can no longer do it solo????

I wonder

hint hint*

so now you need teamwork to kill tanks and can no longer do it solo????

I wonder

hint hint*

So one team has a tank that takes up a slot of one man, which can take out both tanks and infantry effectively. The other team needs to have at least 3 people dedicated AV in order to take out said tank, which are only effective at tanks and only if they are together. So for 1 tanks your teams essentially nullifies at least 3 people on the other team. This makes the only effective counter to a tank another tank. This takes away from the game significantly.

God I hope CCP doesn't do change the swarm launchers and AV grenades so that you whining bit.ches will leave.

Swarm launchers are a no skill weapon, just aim and let go of the trigger. Now at least we vehicle users stand a chance against all the free militia swarms up to proto. Before if you flew a ADS you would be denied flight because of 1 proto swarmer or 2 militia swarmer.

Swarms are still dangerous if the harderners are on cooldown, especially forge guns. Just wait until the vehicle harderners are at cooldown and make sure you have team mates with AV as well and you will succeed. It makes no sense that one merc with a dropsuit fit worth max 40k isk should be able to take down a 500k plus vehicle alone!


As for the tank speed, its a bug which will most likely be fixed shortly.

God I hope CCP doesn't do change the swarm launchers and AV grenades so that you whining bit.ches will leave.

Swarm launchers are a no skill weapon, just aim and let go of the trigger. Now at least we vehicle users stand a chance against all the free militia swarms up to proto. Before if you flew a ADS you would be denied flight because of 1 proto swarmer or 2 militia swarmer.

Swarms are still dangerous if the harderners are on cooldown, especially forge guns. Just wait until the vehicle harderners are at cooldown and make sure you have team mates with AV as well and you will succeed. It makes no sense that one merc with a dropsuit fit worth max 40k isk should be able to take down a 500k plus vehicle alone!


As for the tank speed, its a bug which will most likely be fixed shortly.

According to CCP new tanks would be in line with the reduction of the swarm launcher. NOT. If you can catch a tank, you have to get so close it is game over. I can no longer go into a simple pub match with any suit with 5 tanks in a circle. Out of Ammo, no problwm speed off and recall your tank, bring in another full one. As for dropships, you should have made it so they couldn't disappear into space...give them a limit how high they can go...say 176m. Love the rail rifle, but all you did was replace the lazer and scrambler with something even more deadly. My days of pub matches are over until AV is brought onto an EQUAL playing field. 300m lock-on faster lock-on more hit points per missle (cause most don't hit a tank doing 400 F&%king miles an hour.

CCP best get your SH%t together and fix this gross patch. All you have done is eliminate swarms..so why did you even bother keeping them in the game.

If you die to militia swarms even before 1.7 you are a no skill noob. Also my AV fit cost me 160k (Which also dies 5 times faster then your tank does).

ok, I haven't playing in a LONG LONG LONG time b/c of how bad the game became, but figured id snoop around for 1.7 and see where things lay. Besides CCP not touching ttk which the community seems to be in agreement on that it is to short (especially compared to what us vets enjoyed back in codex/E3 when breach was op); the "new issue" seems to be the av interaction with vehicles.

Having used both since replication, but specifically falling into being a dedicated AV'er, I can concede AV in terms of swarms needed some alteration. In 1.7 changes were made that affect both parties and how they operate. (all based w/o gameplay, simply by numbers and how things went).

1). Tankers can no longer complain about AV being less costly. Your basic tank hull is < 1/2 the price it once was. Along w/ less modules = less overall cost, where AV cost remain the same. As need to figure now with AV effectiveness reduced more then likely will die more often in trying to kill you.

2). Previous tank starting HP was ~ 3-4k (plz correct if wrong); now starting HP is b/t 5-6k pending on skills

3). Tanks are more mobile

4). All AV (aside from plasma cannon, and unless things changes this was unused as real AV threat anyway) have been reduced in their effectiveness. ******************

Based on those simple parameters, it could be said that Tanks now have a "big" advantage in situations; as such:

1). LV'ing AV nades is more/less worthless; as Proto nades (be regular or packed) are unable to OHK basic/militia LAV's. If you look at this as a pure SP spending standpoint, you put ~1.2millions SP into that ability. Your militia LAV's cost no SP (yet now cost isk to use if correct), but there isn't any real penalty to your character (SP use), only your wallet is affected. This affects not just AV specific players, but assault players as well, as it takes away their ability from being rammed, or a quick way to take out reinforcements. Maybe im being biased b/c I have proto nades and have forever; but this deters 1/2 of the cost in skilling up nades; if anything should of split off AV from flux/locus nades and altered the multiplier

2). Swarms seemling will be useless in their "designed" roles. If you think of swarms as a stinger/javelin type AV/AA weapon, they are used from far away. I'll refrain from talking damage much; as this is mainly about range issue. For a 175m lock on, you need to take into account a few things.
A: tank must be in open territory (as if in enclosed space you'll be MUCH MUCH closer, and a good change a missle will hit against some object on launch reducing damage)
B: you most likely will be spotted by tank or infantry after 1st or 2nd shot (meaning ull need to move around a lot; which then reduces YOUR role, as while u run/move tank is healed so essentially you do no damage, and may not even deter the tank)
C: lack of "ability" against infantry
Next is swarm damage. Simply it was reduced. Best way to examine the detriment it does to this weapons is this:
A). 2 of your first 3 shots against a Madag (armor based) will barely break through shield on lower level (milita/standard)
B). 2nd of 3 shots from mag will break through shield on higher tier swarms (adv/proto)
**** C). 1 Proto swarm user can no longer solo a Madrugar w/ a single mag (w/ skilling got 5 in made, b/c skilling changed its at 3. Will now need 2 mags maybe more pending on time to reload and tank location (THIS is big conflict here, as it has a deeper issue of balance)

3). Forge Gun: simple damage reduction and longer charge time. Cant say much here atm as don't run them; but it seems like it isn't as severe as swarms and AV nade "nerf" b/c if take away from lower camping people were complaining about, as it limits follow up shots and reduce splash damage making it more toward and AV weapon as intended, yet in good hands can still "easily" kill infantry which swarms cannot do.


Well that's all I got atm. Lets see how much i'll get flamed

1.) Imho, one grenade shouldn't be able to take out an LAV, militia or otherwise, much less tanks. Two to three proto? Sure, but tier-to-tier LAVs should survive at least 2. LAVs are meant to be blockade runners, so having 1 proxy mine-esque, magnetically targeting, OHKO grenade defeats that purpose. However, I think that multiple grenades should kill LAVs that are either stuck or matador-ing.

Tanks should not be directly threatened by this "secondary AV" weapon, at lease with modules on. I see AV-nades, with relation to tanks, as either support for primary AVer from regular infantry or as supplemental to AVer.

2.) As far as range goes, it made no sense for swarms to shoot as far as they did. Rails are the farthest shooting things in the EvE mechanics, so they shouldn't shoot as far as as a forge. Also, their range compared to small missile turrets makes no sense at al either. Fight distance based on how fast they go for a certain time, which is proportional to their size (because of fuel or something), so it makes no sense that a swarm launcher half the size of a vehicle launcher that shoots 4-6 even smaller rockets should almost double the range of a vehicle missile.

I haven't done any damage/DPS calculations, but from what I can glaze over, it seems that vehicles are virtually invincible with active mods, but are obviously more week when in cool down. Even then, it make take the consorted effort of two or more AVers for more effective killing.

3.) Forges seem fine to me, atm (granted I haven't played, yet). I haven't heard complaints from either side.

1.) Imho, one grenade shouldn't be able to take out an LAV, militia or otherwise, much less tanks. Two to three proto? Sure, but tier-to-tier LAVs should survive at least 2. LAVs are meant to be blockade runners, so having 1 proxy mine-esque, magnetically targeting, OHKO grenade defeats that purpose. However, I think that multiple grenades should kill LAVs that are either stuck or matador-ing.

Tanks should not be directly threatened by this "secondary AV" weapon, at lease with modules on. I see AV-nades, with relation to tanks, as either support for primary AVer from regular infantry or as supplemental to AVer.

2.) As far as range goes, it made no sense for swarms to shoot as far as they did. Rails are the farthest shooting things in the EvE mechanics, so they shouldn't shoot as far as as a forge. Also, their range compared to small missile turrets makes no sense at al either. Fight distance based on how fast they go for a certain time, which is proportional to their size (because of fuel or something), so it makes no sense that a swarm launcher half the size of a vehicle launcher that shoots 4-6 even smaller rockets should almost double the range of a vehicle missile.

I haven't done any damage/DPS calculations, but from what I can glaze over, it seems that vehicles are virtually invincible with active mods, but are obviously more week when in cool down. Even then, it make take the consorted effort of two or more AVers for more effective killing.

3.) Forges seem fine to me, atm (granted I haven't played, yet). I haven't heard complaints from either side.

so now you need teamwork to kill tanks and can no longer do it solo????

I wonder

hint hint*

Personnel I wonder why they didn't just get rid of Proto/Adv AV weapons and just stick with Standard until they release the equalivant in vehicles. It makes no sense to me why they even brought them out in the first place when the vehicles they are suppose to go up against don't even exist.

-Remove Prot/Adv AV weapons
-Balance Standard AV with standard vehicles
-Add Adv AV when Adv vehicles come out and balance with them
-Add Proto AV when Proto vehicles come out and balance with them.

reason adv/proto av is there there, is b/c up until this last update; the Sagaris/Surya was normally thought of as the adv tank; and the Blackops Tanks were considered proto (sub par though)

Teamwork?

what you think its fair to have to call a whole squad of A/v and jihad LaV before a tank even thinks about moving away?

enjoy it while you can vehicle peeps, this imbalance was the worst thing that coud have happened to you. because now they are going to nerf you guys to the ground next patch(which wouldnt have happened if they came Anywhere near balancing this patch)
which they did not.

but they did that on porpouse so that the vehicle peeps would sink their SP back into them...think about it...now your all back in..and cant do crap about it when they nerf you to the ground in a month. Same with swarms...if they gave a respe this patch nobody would be using swarms anymore.

This is NOT balanced in anyway. I would be ashamed if this is what i provided as balanced..CCP..you guys dont check this out before dropping it? comon

Yep

All while you yourself require no teamwork and little skill whatsoever.

Hypocrite much?

Dude It's a ****ing tank dip****. Do you understand the concept?

Dude It's a ****ing tank dip****. Do you understand the concept?

A tank is suppose to require no skill? And by your logic, ie RL, AV should permently immoblised and all other AV should 1-2 hit kill.

God I hope CCP doesn't do change the swarm launchers and AV grenades so that you whining bit.ches will leave.
Swarm launchers are a no skill weapon, just aim and let go of the trigger. Now at least we vehicle users stand a chance against all the free militia swarms up to proto. Before if you flew a ADS you would be denied flight because of 1 proto swarmer or 2 militia swarmer.

Swarms are still dangerous if the harderners are on cooldown, especially forge guns. Just wait until the vehicle harderners are at cooldown and make sure you have team mates with AV as well and you will succeed. It makes no sense that one merc with a dropsuit fit worth max 40k isk should be able to take down a 500k plus vehicle alone!


As for the tank speed, its a bug which will most likely be fixed shortly.

In real life AV squads are comprised of 2 - 3 man teams. One to carry the very large weapon and 1 - 2 to carry munitions + suport weapons. Use ya head next time, before you deside to speak out your ***.

In real life AV squads are comprised of 2 - 3 man teams. One to carry the very large weapon and 1 - 2 to carry munitions + suport weapons. Use ya head next time, before you deside to speak out your ***.

Personnel I wonder why they didn't just get rid of Proto/Adv AV weapons and just stick with Standard until they release the equalivant in vehicles. It makes no sense to me why they even brought them out in the first place when the vehicles they are suppose to go up against don't even exist.

-Remove Prot/Adv AV weapons
-Balance Standard AV with standard vehicles
-Add Adv AV when Adv vehicles come out and balance with them
-Add Proto AV when Proto vehicles come out and balance with them.

In real life AV squads are comprised of 2 - 3 man teams. One to carry the very large weapon and 1 - 2 to carry munitions + suport weapons. Use ya head next time, before you deside to speak out your ***.

No.

First, vehicles may only have a STD label, but they are actually tiericided.

If you want to remove ADV/PRO AV, then you'll have to remove ADV/PRO & Enhanced/Complex modules as well.

And you'd also have to nerf the STD/Basic modules. It's not fair having weapons that only deal 800HP of damage when the target has a resistance of 60%.

When did this become a discussion about real life? Here's the facts, if tank can be soloed then they are worth no more than the cost of the dropsuit that solos them, so militia tank complete cost (all fittings) = std to adv dropsuit cost (all fittings) roughly 20k - 40k ISK, and prot to proto values. If tanks are not able to take some punishment then there is ABSOLUTLY no reason to wast the money on them. END OF ****ING STORY.

The reason our dropsuits cost less then your tanks is because of

1. We die 5 times faster then you
2. We can be hurt by every vehicle and every weapon in the game excluding swarms and av grenades while you're invincible to every weapon except for 5 (Also you can be destroyed by tanks too. Dropships can kill you if you're very stupid and LAVs can't kill you unless they have 6 remote explosives strapped to them).
3. You are a lot faster then my dropsuit.
4. You have the ability to run me over.
5. You have the ability to kill us a lot faster then we can kill you.

I'm sure I can think of many other reasons too if you would like.

I would tend to agree. Shouldn't stnd equipment be matched to stnd?

Btw, how are vehicles teircide, by the having enchanted/complex modules? What is going to happen when they come out with adv/Proto hulls if AV can't handle Stnd hulls?

Also I'm not a tank pilot either.

So you've never used a tank huh?

No, that is the way it is now, when it requires team work for AV to take out a tank. Before, in 1.6, when it was ridiculously easy to for infantry AV to solo a tank, when AV was oober OP and tanks had the acceleration of a turtle, what was your excuse then?

{edit>>> And don't try to bull**** me man, I was an AV secialist all through chromo.

Yep

All while you yourself require no teamwork and little skill whatsoever.

Hypocrite much?

tanks were UP in 1.6 but pre 1.7 doesn't matter anymore. What matters now is 1.7 and beyond. Also I've been an AV specialist since the E3 build.

I don't mind an AV nerf OR a Vehicle Buff...

But why did they do BOTH?

Why not have left AV alone when the new vehicles came out and see how things go and then adjust accordingly. Why pull at opposite ends? Move one side then move the other after/later.