DUST Search - AV -> Vehicle "Dilemma"

Kane Fyea wrote:

Son-Of A-Gun wrote:

Kane Fyea wrote:

Son-Of A-Gun wrote:

When did this become a discussion about real life? Here's the facts, if tank can be soloed then they are worth no more than the cost of the dropsuit that solos them, so militia tank complete cost (all fittings) = std to adv dropsuit cost (all fittings) roughly 20k - 40k ISK, and prot to proto values. If tanks are not able to take some punishment then there is ABSOLUTLY no reason to wast the money on them. END OF ****ING STORY.

The reason our dropsuits cost less then your tanks is because of

1. We die 5 times faster then you
2. We can be hurt by every vehicle and every weapon in the game excluding swarms and av grenades while you're invincible to every weapon except for 5 (Also you can be destroyed by tanks too. Dropships can kill you if you're very stupid and LAVs can't kill you unless they have 6 remote explosives strapped to them).
3. You are a lot faster then my dropsuit.
4. You have the ability to run me over.
5. You have the ability to kill us a lot faster then we can kill you.

I'm sure I can think of many other reasons too if you would like.

No, that is the way it is now, when it requires team work for AV to take out a tank. Before, in 1.6, when it was ridiculously easy to for infantry AV to solo a tank, when AV was oober OP and tanks had the acceleration of a turtle, what was your excuse then?

{edit>>> And don't try to bull**** me man, I was an AV secialist all through chromo.

tanks were UP in 1.6 but pre 1.7 doesn't matter anymore. What matters now is 1.7 and beyond. Also I've been an AV specialist since the E3 build.

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ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 617	Posted - 2013.12.11 22:02:00 - [31] - Quote did a game yesterday and we had a squad of proto swarms and we couldn't kill ****. this teamwork crap people keep talking about doesn't stand for nothing when you are a team of av and the enemy is a team of rifles and tanks. no swarmer stands a chance.. they should have halfed swarm damage but increased its range instead of reducing. this way a group of swarms could offer up effective av while not being extremely vulnerable at close range and being extremely powerfull. 1 swarm by himself would offer up no counter to vehicles. also increased range would buy dropships more time to escape when they see the swarm mass coming towards them if they cant just take it. really forge should have had its range reduced to mid range and probably splash increased to offer a bit of protection taking up the place of where swarms currently are from this patch. lock on is just pointless at 175m https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Kane Fyea DUST University 2356	Posted - 2013.12.11 22:20:00 - [32] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Atiim wrote: Sir Snugglz wrote: so now you need teamwork to kill tanks and can no longer do it solo???? I wonder hint hint* Yep All while you yourself require no teamwork and little skill whatsoever. Hypocrite much? Dude It's a **ing tank dip**. Do you understand the concept? Tanks take teamwork irl so why not in game? I wouldn't have a problem with you guys being the most effective way of killing yourselves if you actually used teamwork (Which most tankers do not)
Slen Kaleth BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 58	Posted - 2013.12.11 22:20:00 - [33] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Atiim wrote: Sir Snugglz wrote: so now you need teamwork to kill tanks and can no longer do it solo???? I wonder hint hint* Yep All while you yourself require no teamwork and little skill whatsoever. Hypocrite much? Dude It's a **ing tank dip**. Do you understand the concept? A tank is suppose to require no skill? And by your logic, ie RL, AV should permently immoblised and all other AV should 1-2 hit kill.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 624	Posted - 2013.12.11 22:27:00 - [34] - Quote Slen Kaleth wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Atiim wrote: Sir Snugglz wrote: so now you need teamwork to kill tanks and can no longer do it solo???? I wonder hint hint* Yep All while you yourself require no teamwork and little skill whatsoever. Hypocrite much? Dude It's a **ing tank dip. Do you understand the concept? A tank is suppose to require no skill? And by your logic, ie RL, AV should permently immoblised and all other AV should 1-2 hit kill. In real life AV squads are comprised of 2 - 3 man teams. One to carry the very large weapon and 1 - 2 to carry munitions + suport weapons. Use ya head next time, before you deside to speak out your *. {:)}{3GÇó>
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1850	Posted - 2013.12.11 22:32:00 - [35] - Quote K9 Wez wrote: God I hope CCP doesn't do change the swarm launchers and AV grenades so that you whining bit.ches will leave. Swarm launchers are a no skill weapon, just aim and let go of the trigger. Now at least we vehicle users stand a chance against all the free militia swarms up to proto. Before if you flew a ADS you would be denied flight because of 1 proto swarmer or 2 militia swarmer. Swarms are still dangerous if the harderners are on cooldown, especially forge guns. Just wait until the vehicle harderners are at cooldown and make sure you have team mates with AV as well and you will succeed. It makes no sense that one merc with a dropsuit fit worth max 40k isk should be able to take down a 500k plus vehicle alone! As for the tank speed, its a bug which will most likely be fixed shortly. Man. I haven't seen this many tank scrubs since my "Tank 514" prediction thread. What skill does a turret require? None. They require the same amount of "skill" as the Assault Rifle. If a Dropship pilot was denied because of one swarmer, then s/he was a bad pilot to begin with. Your vehicles no longer cost 500k. Not even close. And My SL costs around 60-77k. Whining B!tches? I don't think you have been using the forums lately because last time I checked pilots were QQing since around the start of Uprising. What's the point of having the hardner mechanic when a vehicle has a 100% chance of escaping? Or when infantry have to be right in the tanks face to see if the hardner is running. And I know this is a video game forum and all, but at least try to remain civil. DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Kane Fyea Scions of Athra 2359	Posted - 2013.12.11 22:33:00 - [36] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Slen Kaleth wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Atiim wrote: Sir Snugglz wrote: so now you need teamwork to kill tanks and can no longer do it solo???? I wonder hint hint* Yep All while you yourself require no teamwork and little skill whatsoever. Hypocrite much? Dude It's a **ing tank dip. Do you understand the concept? A tank is suppose to require no skill? And by your logic, ie RL, AV should permently immoblised and all other AV should 1-2 hit kill. In real life AV squads are comprised of 2 - 3 man teams. One to carry the very large weapon and 1 - 2 to carry munitions + suport weapons. Use ya head next time, before you deside to speak out your *. Yea and tanks also take at least 3 men to operate (And that's if the theres no tank commander. There's the gunner, driver, and loader) Also I'm guessing you've never heard of the javelin which takes two men and has deadly anti tank abilities. (One holding the javelin and the other for holding munitions.) The only reason why tanks are viable today is because no first world countries have gone against each other yet (In modern times). Only first world vs third world. (Most first world countries have anti tank missiles that can one-two shot a tank. If it's not destroyed it'll be immobilized)
Daddrobit PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 379	Posted - 2013.12.11 22:34:00 - [37] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Slen Kaleth wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Atiim wrote: Sir Snugglz wrote: so now you need teamwork to kill tanks and can no longer do it solo???? I wonder hint hint* Yep All while you yourself require no teamwork and little skill whatsoever. Hypocrite much? Dude It's a **ing tank dip. Do you understand the concept? A tank is suppose to require no skill? And by your logic, ie RL, AV should permently immoblised and all other AV should 1-2 hit kill. In real life AV squads are comprised of 2 - 3 man teams. One to carry the very large weapon and 1 - 2 to carry munitions + suport weapons. Use ya head next time, before you deside to speak out your *. And in RL it takes 4 people to operate a tank. Driver, Gunner, Loader, Commander. If it takes one person to operate something in a game where each team can only bring in a certain amount of players that is equal to the other team, then it should only take one player to counter it. That's balance.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1850	Posted - 2013.12.11 22:40:00 - [38] - Quote Crazies Ivan wrote: Personnel I wonder why they didn't just get rid of Proto/Adv AV weapons and just stick with Standard until they release the equalivant in vehicles. It makes no sense to me why they even brought them out in the first place when the vehicles they are suppose to go up against don't even exist. -Remove Prot/Adv AV weapons -Balance Standard AV with standard vehicles -Add Adv AV when Adv vehicles come out and balance with them -Add Proto AV when Proto vehicles come out and balance with them. No. First, vehicles may only have a STD label, but they are actually tiericided. If you want to remove ADV/PRO AV, then you'll have to remove ADV/PRO & Enhanced/Complex modules as well. And you'd also have to nerf the STD/Basic modules. It's not fair having weapons that only deal 800HP of damage when the target has a resistance of 60%. DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 624	Posted - 2013.12.11 22:46:00 - [39] - Quote When did this become a discussion about real life? Here's the fact if tank can be soloed then they are worth no more than the cost of the dropsuit that solos them, so militia tank complete cost (all fittings) = std to adv dropsuit drop suit cost (all fittings) roughly 20k - 40k ISK, and prot to proto values. If tanks are not able to take some punishment then there is ABSOLUTLY no reason to wast the money on them. END OF ****ING STORY. {:)}{3GÇó>
Slen Kaleth BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 59	Posted - 2013.12.11 22:49:00 - [40] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Slen Kaleth wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Atiim wrote: Sir Snugglz wrote: so now you need teamwork to kill tanks and can no longer do it solo???? I wonder hint hint* Yep All while you yourself require no teamwork and little skill whatsoever. Hypocrite much? Dude It's a **ing tank dip. Do you understand the concept? A tank is suppose to require no skill? And by your logic, ie RL, AV should permently immoblised and all other AV should 1-2 hit kill. In real life AV squads are comprised of 2 - 3 man teams. One to carry the very large weapon and 1 - 2 to carry munitions + suport weapons. Use ya head next time, before you deside to speak out your *. Have you heard of an RPG? Only takes one and was very effective at taking out tanks. Plus Javelin can be fired by one person and take a tank out with one shot, which can be carried by that one.

Slen Kaleth BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 59	Posted - 2013.12.11 22:55:00 - [41] - Quote Atiim wrote: Crazies Ivan wrote: Personnel I wonder why they didn't just get rid of Proto/Adv AV weapons and just stick with Standard until they release the equalivant in vehicles. It makes no sense to me why they even brought them out in the first place when the vehicles they are suppose to go up against don't even exist. -Remove Prot/Adv AV weapons -Balance Standard AV with standard vehicles -Add Adv AV when Adv vehicles come out and balance with them -Add Proto AV when Proto vehicles come out and balance with them. No. First, vehicles may only have a STD label, but they are actually tiericided. If you want to remove ADV/PRO AV, then you'll have to remove ADV/PRO & Enhanced/Complex modules as well. And you'd also have to nerf the STD/Basic modules. It's not fair having weapons that only deal 800HP of damage when the target has a resistance of 60%. I would tend to agree. Shouldn't stnd equipment be matched to stnd? Btw, how are vehicles teircide, by the having enchanted/complex modules? What is going to happen when they come out with adv/Proto hulls if AV can't handle Stnd hulls?
Kane Fyea Scions of Athra 2359	Posted - 2013.12.11 22:57:00 - [42] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: When did this become a discussion about real life? Here's the facts, if tank can be soloed then they are worth no more than the cost of the dropsuit that solos them, so militia tank complete cost (all fittings) = std to adv dropsuit cost (all fittings) roughly 20k - 40k ISK, and prot to proto values. If tanks are not able to take some punishment then there is ABSOLUTLY no reason to wast the money on them. END OF ****ING STORY. The reason our dropsuits cost less then your tanks is because of 1. We die 5 times faster then you 2. We can be hurt by every vehicle and every weapon in the game excluding swarms and av grenades while you're invincible to every weapon except for 5 (Also you can be destroyed by tanks too. Dropships can kill you if you're very stupid and LAVs can't kill you unless they have 6 remote explosives strapped to them). 3. You are a lot faster then my dropsuit. You also have the ability to run me over. 4. You have the ability to kill us a lot faster then we can kill you. I'm sure I can think of many other reasons too if you would like.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 624	Posted - 2013.12.11 23:07:00 - [43] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: When did this become a discussion about real life? Here's the facts, if tank can be soloed then they are worth no more than the cost of the dropsuit that solos them, so militia tank complete cost (all fittings) = std to adv dropsuit cost (all fittings) roughly 20k - 40k ISK, and prot to proto values. If tanks are not able to take some punishment then there is ABSOLUTLY no reason to wast the money on them. END OF ****ING STORY. The reason our dropsuits cost less then your tanks is because of 1. We die 5 times faster then you 2. We can be hurt by every vehicle and every weapon in the game excluding swarms and av grenades while you're invincible to every weapon except for 5 (Also you can be destroyed by tanks too. Dropships can kill you if you're very stupid and LAVs can't kill you unless they have 6 remote explosives strapped to them). 3. You are a lot faster then my dropsuit. 4. You have the ability to run me over. 5. You have the ability to kill us a lot faster then we can kill you. I'm sure I can think of many other reasons too if you would like. No that is the way it is now when it requires team work to for AV to take out a tank. Before, in 1.6, when it was ridiculously easy to for infantry AV to solo a tank, when AV was oober OP and tanks had the acceleration of at turtle, what was your excuse then? {:)}{3GÇó>
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 624	Posted - 2013.12.11 23:11:00 - [44] - Quote Also I'm not a tank driver either. {:)}{3GÇó>
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1854	Posted - 2013.12.11 23:23:00 - [45] - Quote Slen Kaleth wrote: I would tend to agree. Shouldn't stnd equipment be matched to stnd? Btw, how are vehicles teircide, by the having enchanted/complex modules? What is going to happen when they come out with adv/Proto hulls if AV can't handle Stnd hulls? Vehicles are tiercided in the sense that you only use 1 hull to fit all of your turrets and modules, regardless of what tier the Modules are at. (Though the higher tier gear is harder to fit) With the way that vehicles work as of now, I doubt CCP will ever introduce ADV/PRO Hulls. If they do, then I want my Codex Swarm Launcher back. DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1854	Posted - 2013.12.11 23:23:00 - [46] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Also I'm not a tank pilot either. So you've never used a tank huh? DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1188	Posted - 2013.12.11 23:24:00 - [47] - Quote Well here are my thoughts! 1) The swarm launcher is a caldari weapon, as such we would expect it to be the longest range light AV weapon. If 150m is the max range then what are infantry supposed to do about arial vehicles like GUNSHIPS and ADS? 2) I have taken tanks out for a spin on my main since the update hit, I get through maybe a tank every 3 matches, wearing a BPO fit and using entirely miltia gear. I took on a SL, survived two full clips, blasted the guy left to repair, came back and blasted his mates too. Take from it what you will, but I think in true CCP style they have overdone it, now we have to hope CCP realise this before the month is out, so it can at least be re addressed by 1.9! Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 624	Posted - 2013.12.11 23:30:00 - [48] - Quote Atiim wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Also I'm not a tank pilot either. So you've never used a tank huh? I didn't say that. I said I don't drive tanks. I stopped driving tanks about four or five months ago. Had 10m SP in them and when I got my vehicle respec I put it all into infantry skills. {:)}{3GÇó>
Kane Fyea Scions of Athra 2365	Posted - 2013.12.12 01:00:00 - [49] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: When did this become a discussion about real life? Here's the facts, if tank can be soloed then they are worth no more than the cost of the dropsuit that solos them, so militia tank complete cost (all fittings) = std to adv dropsuit cost (all fittings) roughly 20k - 40k ISK, and prot to proto values. If tanks are not able to take some punishment then there is ABSOLUTLY no reason to wast the money on them. END OF **ING STORY. The reason our dropsuits cost less then your tanks is because of 1. We die 5 times faster then you 2. We can be hurt by every vehicle and every weapon in the game excluding swarms and av grenades while you're invincible to every weapon except for 5 (Also you can be destroyed by tanks too. Dropships can kill you if you're very stupid and LAVs can't kill you unless they have 6 remote explosives strapped to them). 3. You are a lot faster then my dropsuit. 4. You have the ability to run me over. 5. You have the ability to kill us a lot faster then we can kill you. I'm sure I can think of many other reasons too if you would like. No, that is the way it is now, when it requires team work for AV to take out a tank. Before, in 1.6, when it was ridiculously easy to for infantry AV to solo a tank, when AV was oober OP and tanks had the acceleration of a turtle, what was your excuse then? {edit>>> And don't try to bull** me man, I was an AV secialist all through chromo. tanks were UP in 1.6 but pre 1.7 doesn't matter anymore. What matters now is 1.7 and beyond. Also I've been an AV specialist since the E3 build.
Our Deepest Regret The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 353	Posted - 2013.12.12 01:09:00 - [50] - Quote Atiim wrote: Sir Snugglz wrote: so now you need teamwork to kill tanks and can no longer do it solo???? I wonder hint hint* Yep All while you yourself require no teamwork and little skill whatsoever. Hypocrite much? I'm a little uncertain about the state of things now. I like that tanks are cheaper. But I get nervous when I see exceptional pilots go 30-2. It seems excessive. They don't even have to play for survivability anymore, death is an inconvenience. They just call in another HAV and get right back to the slaughter.

Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 625	Posted - 2013.12.12 01:14:00 - [51] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: When did this become a discussion about real life? Here's the facts, if tank can be soloed then they are worth no more than the cost of the dropsuit that solos them, so militia tank complete cost (all fittings) = std to adv dropsuit cost (all fittings) roughly 20k - 40k ISK, and prot to proto values. If tanks are not able to take some punishment then there is ABSOLUTLY no reason to wast the money on them. END OF **ING STORY. The reason our dropsuits cost less then your tanks is because of 1. We die 5 times faster then you 2. We can be hurt by every vehicle and every weapon in the game excluding swarms and av grenades while you're invincible to every weapon except for 5 (Also you can be destroyed by tanks too. Dropships can kill you if you're very stupid and LAVs can't kill you unless they have 6 remote explosives strapped to them). 3. You are a lot faster then my dropsuit. 4. You have the ability to run me over. 5. You have the ability to kill us a lot faster then we can kill you. I'm sure I can think of many other reasons too if you would like. No, that is the way it is now, when it requires team work for AV to take out a tank. Before, in 1.6, when it was ridiculously easy to for infantry AV to solo a tank, when AV was oober OP and tanks had the acceleration of a turtle, what was your excuse then? {edit>>> And don't try to bull me man, I was an AV secialist all through chromo. tanks were UP in 1.6 but pre 1.7 doesn't matter anymore. What matters now is 1.7 and beyond. Also I've been an AV specialist since the E3 build. And when I start seeing some reasonable proposals from AVers on AV vs V (instead of Nothing but AV ***ing because they can't solo tanks anymore, then you'll get my support where I feel it is deserved). Untill then I'm going to treat the AV community the same way the AV community treated the vehicle community when the were getting yhey're @$$es handed to them. So expect to hear a lot of the following: HTFU AV scrub Learn to AV bro Can I has yur ISK Etc {:)}{3GÇó>
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 331	Posted - 2013.12.12 01:30:00 - [52] - Quote Sigh...CCP really f'd up a problem that had a very simple solution. Reduce the cost of tanks. We wouldn't have to listen to the tankers whine all the time about their expensive toys being destroyed once for every 75 kills that they make, but no... Instead, they lower the price of tanks while simultaneously severely nerfing their counters, then add in a nifty little bug that enables them to ride like the wind. So now we have tankers arguing that hell, it SHOULD take a team of three or four AVers to take them out while remaining oblivious to the fact that doesn't make for a very balanced game given the team limitations of 16 people per side while being allowed to bring in more than one tank. Life is killing me.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 904	Posted - 2013.12.12 02:54:00 - [53] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: I don't mind an AV nerf OR a Vehicle Buff... But why did they do BOTH? Why not have left AV alone when the new vehicles came out and see how things go and then adjust accordingly. Why pull at opposite ends? Move one side then move the other after/later. Because it was supposed to be nerf on BOTH. Initial design plans and numbers indicated severe philosophy change and moderate nerf on tank HP, especially on cooldowns. (not to mention fixing the bug powered triple armor reps...) Oh and skills no more giving hard buffs. On this basis the very strong AV needed the nerf. For some reason things didn't go as expected. Perhaps most notably the tank speed (300mph! really!) was harder to calculate as it kinda multiplies the tank effectiveness. Feeling the scanner is too simple and off balance? The fix:


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