The problem is with the current TTK.

I run a heavy with an EHP of over 1.5k. It costs me over 100,000 ISK to field one set of this fitting.
I have a life expectancy of under 2 seconds versus just about anything.

Do I expect to be an unkillable death machine? No. No.
I do expect that I can last a bit longer than 2 seconds with a fit that costs as much as a standard tank fit. I do expect people to be scared of my HMG, and to be able to shrug off anything but concentrated fire from multiple sources.


The Heavy suit has no way of "Supporting" it's team. It's designed to kill. It's designed to get up in your face and scream 'COME AT ME". Right now, we just tickle people, while AR users just faceroll us in close combat.


I'll admit, I've had a few games where I've managed to pull off some crazy **** as a Heavy. But they're few and far between. But right now, Heavies aren't worth a damn thing, and most of my SP has been put into Heavy suits. I run a full proto build, and it's worthless compared to my 5k Logi build. It really is.
I do feel that Forge Guns are alright just now though. Proto tanks are still crazy, but using a Proto Assault FG seems to work well - mostly. The HMG is worthless. SMGs and shotguns kill faster at close range, and ARs, RRs and CRs have medium range. So where does that leave the HMG?

Really,
Lucky I've only wasted about 100k SP on getting into heavy
Think I'll stop right there...
For the record a x ISK & y SP heavy should be comparable to a x ISK & y SP assault / scout / logi / tank

e.g. a Heavy needs more SP then an asault so a basic heavy should match a advanced assault, that kinda thing

do that or setup a unrelated and uninfluence to EVE test/development server where players have unlimited free respecs to prove/test such things

I mean youre really not helpin your case with that comment. the HMG has no sharpshooter skill, and its not that we need more accuracy with our gun per say, in fact its that the hit marker is too accurate. Unless you have someone perfectly centered in you reticle 90% of your damage wont hit. When faced with an AR hip firing in close quarters with aim assist and our huge hit box., it typically ends with us getting destroyed.

There is a video floating around that illustrates the issue im describing quite well, cant seem to find it but if you google it im sure itll show up

Heavies should only be weak against 2 things:
1. other heavies
2. vehicles
I personally believe 1 heavy should be able to mow down at least 3 enemies (proto or not) 1 on 3 (with a HMG).

I've killed at least 20 tanks so far since 1.7 hit. Forge guns still work. Heavy suit is still viable.

Heck, I even went on a murder spree with my SMG running into the base cause I ran out of forge gun rounds. Got at least 5 kills before dying.

Heavy is the most reliant role on other players, and other heavies. If you don't play it like that you're going to have a hard time. Ever run a squad with 3 heavies, 2 logistics, and an assault defending an objective? Infantry doesn't stand a chance, that's where heavies shine. The heavy is a DEFENSIVE role, they wait for the enemy to foolishly walk into their trap instead of running out into the open guns blazing (at least the amarr heavy is, Minmatar heavy could potentially be awesome for aggressive play)

You run into more than one heavy defending and you'll die. It's as simple as that. Solo heavies need two armor reps at the least. Shield regulators are a good option if you use cover a lot. Plates should only be used if you have logistics support to help heal you. That way you can rep in between encounters and have another full 1200 ehp to deal with the next guy. If you find another heavy stick with him. Chances are the enemy will panic and not be able to take down even one of you when he has two HMGs in his face.

Trust me, I have proficiency 3 in both HMG and forge, prototype heavy frame, and my main role is logistics. If anything, the HMG just needs a rework of the bullet spread, and the heavy to have more ways of earning points for the team.

Also, don't be afraid to use light weapons if you have support! The HMG is the heavy version of a shotgun. It's great for nailing a person who comes around the corner unsuspecting, but can't do anything at range. You have to be sneaky with it and it's not just point and shoot like other weapons. If you can sacrifice ammo capacity then go for a rifle. However, don't be an idiot and use a rifle in situations where HMGs would be more effective. Rifles are better for defending areas with a large space in-between the objective and the enemy or for multiple enemy encounters. HMGs work best within the objective or city where there are lots of hallways and walls to hide behind, forcing your enemy to get close.

The thing that worries me, as a non-heavy user, is heavies becoming invincible once TTK and HMG is fixed. What's the counter to them in a building, especially after the spread works as intended?

I do think the HMG needs a lot of work, and heavies should last longer than your average bear, but if they get an objective inside a building, whats to stop them? There must be something.

Perhaps make them turn slower slightly? Obviously after they are fixed, doing that now would ruin them for real.

It's something simple like that. The counter to a well played Heavy would be to play smart. Get a scout. Get a breach shotgun. Run up behind the bastard and oneshot him. (Like, seriously, if I let you sneak up on me and get a full body shot with a shotgun, I deserve to die).
It would promote more thinking and tactics and less "Hurr Durr, run through da door, shoot da peoplez".

This is the same argument tankers are giving to AV. It's taking more than one person to counter one person. While I'm for having heavies needing multiple people to kill being a thing, there must be a limiting factor on heavies, to ensure they can't hold down everything within 40m of them. This is why I suggested reducing turn speed, meaning if someone does flank them, they cannot as readily respond to the threat, or a scout can get in there and bounce around while the heavy can't track it.

once HMG is fixed

I think we should wait at least 20 years until CCP acknowledges that there is a problem and ask for player feedback.

The thing that worries me, as a non-heavy user, is heavies becoming invincible once TTK and HMG is fixed. What's the counter to them in a building, especially after the spread works as intended?

I do think the HMG needs a lot of work, and heavies should last longer than your average bear, but if they get an objective inside a building, whats to stop them? There must be something.

Perhaps make them turn slower slightly? Obviously after they are fixed, doing that now would ruin them for real.

Heavies should only be weak against 2 things:
1. other heavies
2. vehicles
I personally believe 1 heavy should be able to mow down at least 3 enemies (proto or not) 1 on 3 (with a HMG).

Sniper shots should still be able to hurt though.....

Apologies, that's what I meant. Decrease the Tracking of a Heavy, and then you have a smart way to counter them.

Yep. People cried about getting killed by the HMG. It got nerfed to less than airsoft minigun range and accuracy.

Vehicle pilots, particularly HAV pilots, complained that their vehicles were getting killed by anything infantry based, now they have cyclic god mode and all infantry AV was abused with the nerf bat, except for the forge that got put back to pre-chromosome levels and maintained the range nerf.

So CCP... As both roles of the heavy have become little more than an annoyance to those the heavies are supposed to devastate, why not just take the final step and remove them and give back the SP spent in Heavy suits, Forge, and HMG?

As it stands now, there is no real incentive to prioritize vehicles over infantry, except maybe the LAV.

Rejoice pilots. The hard counter to your HAVs are finally gone.

Snipers will always be a threat to infantry of all types. Charged proto sniper with damage mods getting a headshot will always deal massive damage. For a well built heavy maybe it wont be an insta kill but it sure as hell will make the heavy look for cover. If the sniper is playing it smart there won't be any for the heavy and the second round will finish him off.