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[Request] Rebuild the laser rifle post-1.7

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7380	Posted - 2013.12.11 01:51:00 - [1] - Quote 1.7 is here, the AR and SCR got a range buff, and the rail rifle is now the king of ranged combat aside from the sniper rifle. The laser rifle has lost its already questionable niche. Problems with the laser rifle Low damage up close, then it gets good, then it gets crappy again. The band of effective range on the laser beam is only 66-88 meters, that's only a 23 meter effective range. Basically this weapon is only good for only a specific 23 meters, otherwise it sucks. Its also just counter-intuitive that a gun would do less damage up close; sure you can say its because of the focus on the laser's lenses, but it makes no sense why the lenses wouldn't already be focused. Even when in its optimal or effective range, the rail rifles can still dominate the laser rifle users with their range. A rail rifle's range can be from 85 to 102 meters depending on the tier. An advanced or prototype rail rifle has the range advantage over a laser rifle. Unlike the laser rifle, the rail rifle doesn't suddenly start doing less damage at close ranges. Overheat damage increments with tier. This is just terrible, higher tier weapons are suppose to be better than their lower tier predecessors, not just better in some ways but worse in some ways. Overheat damage needs to be the same for all tiers, or should get lower as the tier increases. Solutions Make the optimal range start from 0 meters like any other gun. This will make the laser rifle actually not worthless in close range, and allow it to be useful for more than just a short 23 meters of distance. You may be thinking "but the laser rifle is meant to be for mid-long range", but so is the sniper rifle, but shots do full damage if you can hit the target at close range. The base damage can also be lowered if needed. Obviously the range thing would be a huge buff, and might make the laser rifle OP. To balance it, damage buildup should not be based on how long the laser has fired, but how long it has been hitting the target. The longer you hit the target, the more damage should increase. The heat buildup on the target should decrease slowly when the laser stops hitting it, but should not automatically reset. It will reward precise aiming skill, and also makes sense because the laser should be heating up the enemy's from continuous fire. Standardize overheat feedback damage, or reduce the feedback damage as the tier increases. Higher tier weapons should not perform worse in any way to their standard counterparts. Save the laser rifle. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 4050	Posted - 2013.12.11 02:01:00 - [2] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: 1.7 is here, the AR and SCR got a range buff, and the rail rifle is now the king of ranged combat aside from the sniper rifle. The laser rifle has lost its already questionable niche. Problems with the laser rifle Low damage up close, then it gets good, then it gets crappy again. The band of effective range on the laser beam is only 66-88 meters, that's only a 23 meter effective range. Basically this weapon is only good for only a specific 23 meters, otherwise it sucks. Its also just counter-intuitive that a gun would do less damage up close; sure you can say its because of the focus on the laser's lenses, but it makes no sense why the lenses wouldn't already be focused. Even when in its optimal or effective range, the rail rifles can still dominate the laser rifle users with their range. A rail rifle's range can be from 85 to 102 meters depending on the tier. An advanced or prototype rail rifle has the range advantage over a laser rifle. Unlike the laser rifle, the rail rifle doesn't suddenly start doing less damage at close ranges. Overheat damage increments with tier. This is just terrible, higher tier weapons are suppose to be better than their lower tier predecessors, not just better in some ways but worse in some ways. Overheat damage needs to be the same for all tiers, or should get lower as the tier increases. Solutions Make the optimal range start from 0 meters like any other gun. This will make the laser rifle actually not worthless in close range, and allow it to be useful for more than just a short 23 meters of distance. You may be thinking "but the laser rifle is meant to be for mid-long range", but so is the sniper rifle, but shots do full damage if you can hit the target at close range. The base damage can also be lowered if needed. Obviously the range thing would be a huge buff, and might make the laser rifle OP. To balance it, damage buildup should not be based on how long the laser has fired, but how long it has been hitting the target. The longer you hit the target, the more damage should increase. The heat buildup on the target should decrease slowly when the laser stops hitting it, but should not automatically reset. It will reward precise aiming skill, and also makes sense because the laser should be heating up the enemy's from continuous fire. Standardize overheat feedback damage, or reduce the feedback damage as the tier increases. Higher tier weapons should not perform worse in any way to their standard counterparts. Save the laser rifle. This is pretty much every good proposal for the Laser Rifle condensed into one post. If you make the damage buildup based on time-on-target rather than heat level of the gun, you can remove the restrictive range limitations while still keeping the weapon balanced in its own niche and against the other weapons. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
DeadlyAztec11 2701	Posted - 2013.12.11 02:21:00 - [3] - Quote Just return the Chromasome version. Also the Pre nerf Flaylock. There needs to be less nerfs and more buffs. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 0	Posted - 2013.12.11 05:05:00 - [4] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Just return the Chromasome version. Also the Pre nerf Flaylock. There needs to be less nerfs and more buffs. so 15 17 20 damage with no range restrictions? sounds good to me also the feedback damage needs to be reduced to 50
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1800	Posted - 2013.12.11 05:27:00 - [5] - Quote Great post, though I disagree on the implementation of the solutions. I'd be pretty disappointed if they changed the way the LR built up damage. The reason I love the gun is the fact that once you're done killing one guy you can nearly insta-kill the guy next to him. That gives the LR the opportunity to keep heads down like no other weapon can. I also don't think that the effective needs to start at 0, but rather i'd rather see the curves change. right now the point blank damage for the LR is at about 20%, and the damage increases are drawn ina hyperbolic curve until it hits effective, then suddenly drops to 0. If I had my way the point blank damage would be no lower than 50%, and then it would just be a straight line to 100% and then a slower decline after that. That way the LR would still be a weaker up close but It would be able to still chew through targets at all ranges if you get the beam hot. What the LR really needs as well is a useful operations skill. better cool down speed is absolutely useless. I have used the LR since literally the day it was released. I know that weapon in and out. There is no real incentive to fire that weapon again until after you've reloaded. once you have gotten the beam hot enough to cause any real damage you have fired off so many shots that it's unlikely you'd kill anything else with the rounds you have left in the magazine.
Green Living Scions of Athra 1044	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:43:00 - [6] - Quote +1
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 480	Posted - 2013.12.12 21:37:00 - [7] - Quote Save laser rifle: yes - used to be my favorite weapon Damage depending on time on target: no, that is the draw of every other weapon - time on target kills it. It is a niche weapon and it is unique because it can power up to a certain level and then home in to kill the target - but making the user lit up to the world as well. This is the point of the LZR. I would hate to see it become just another gun that was like all the others.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 254	Posted - 2013.12.13 02:56:00 - [8] - Quote I'm not keen on the damage on target thing. I'd like to see the laser rifle returned to it's long range niche. At the moment that would mean giving it a maximum optimal range of 100+m. That's quite a lot so I wouldn't object if the laser kept its terrible close range damage. One other thing I would like to see is a longer effective range. Dropping from 100% damage to 11% in 3m is silly (85m to 88m). Fixing the tier progression is an obvious requirement.
Cosgar ParagonX 8603	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:07:00 - [9] - Quote I'd rather the laser go back to having Chromosome sharpshooter proficiency 5 range and make it the Amarr's version of a sniper rifle. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 704	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:13:00 - [10] - Quote Keep the mechanics the same, they're fun. Give it an effective range of 66 - 120m and an increase in zoom proportional to the range increase. Reevaluate after and make small incremental changes as necessary. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea

Emerald Bellerophon Nenikekamen 50	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:54:00 - [11] - Quote LRs are just fine. Keep them the way they are. Kidding! I just have to bump because I love to see at least one topic noone's totally disagreed with after 10 posts. I'd also love to crack my Viziams out again. +1 to all and to all a good night!
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1810	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:34:00 - [12] - Quote Emerald Bellerophon wrote: LRs are just fine. Keep them the way they are. Kidding! I just have to bump because I love to see at least one topic noone's totally disagreed with after 10 posts. I'd also love to crack my Viziams out again. +1 to all and to all a good night! Maybe lasers should get the same bump in damage EVERY OTHER WEAPON gets for it's tiers. And I really like the idea of bringing the range out to 120m and calling it the Amarr long range precision weapon.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7495	Posted - 2013.12.16 14:46:00 - [13] - Quote Fix it Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 696	Posted - 2013.12.16 16:31:00 - [14] - Quote It's tragic what has happened to the gentleman's weapon, it's been rendered useless twice now. Tried to use it last night just to see if it really was UP and I was getting crushed by RR's left and right. I was actually thinking earlier today that if the Amarr scout isn't in 1.8 I might get my Caldari Assault to proto next instead of Amarr because the LR is so useless now. That was a depressing thought. I'd like to keep the same damage increase mechanic too. That's what makes it unique. There definitely needs to be a damage and range progression with tiers along with an across-the-board increase in damage and range. The beta viziam was only (ok, mostly) OP because there were no other long-range weapons. The RR and newly range-buffed ScR and AR have obliterated that. The massive dropoff at the end of the optimal for what is supposed to be a long range weapon has always been kinda ridiculous, too. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 4185	Posted - 2013.12.20 20:06:00 - [15] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: It's tragic what has happened to the gentleman's weapon, it's been rendered useless twice now. Tried to use it last night just to see if it really was UP and I was getting crushed by RR's left and right. I was actually thinking earlier today that if the Amarr scout isn't in 1.8 I might get my Caldari Assault to proto next instead of Amarr because the LR is so useless now. That was a depressing thought. I'd like to keep the same damage increase mechanic too. That's what makes it unique. There definitely needs to be a damage and range progression with tiers along with an across-the-board increase in damage and range. The beta viziam was only (ok, mostly) OP because there were no other long-range weapons. The RR and newly range-buffed ScR and AR have obliterated that. The massive dropoff at the end of the optimal for what is supposed to be a long range weapon has always been kinda ridiculous, too. Part of why both I and Wolf would love to see the damage increase tied to the time the beam is on the target is because that would allow the range on the weapon to be opened up to far more than it is now without resulting in bitching about it being overpowered. A skilled user could still easily keep the beam on their target and build up heat on the target's suit to kill them. Personally, I'd love to have the weapon have a smooth falloff curve out to a very long extreme range, meaning that longer range shots require the beam to be on the target longer, and thus balancing out its range capability. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1891	Posted - 2013.12.21 02:58:00 - [16] - Quote Maybe the higher tiers of LR should do less damage to the user when they OH? In any case the LR for all practical effect has just one tier right now, there needs to be massive changes to the weapon's progression. It should have the same bump in base damage that every other weapon has for higher tiers. Try to kill it all you want CCP, I still <3 my laser.
Spectre-M The Generals General Tso's Alliance 142	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:29:00 - [17] - Quote Haven't tried it yet but would like to. I just don't want to die trying. Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist Minnmatar in Amarr Armor I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 757	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:36:00 - [18] - Quote Spectre-M wrote: Haven't tried it yet but would like to. I just don't want to die trying. Go for it, skilling up even to ADV is arguably not that helpful ATM so it's easy to pick up with minimal investment. The uniqueness of the weapon makes it kinda addictive. I'd advise just using it occasionally for fun for now though, it's a bit UP again. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 757	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:45:00 - [19] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: It's tragic what has happened to the gentleman's weapon, it's been rendered useless twice now. Tried to use it last night just to see if it really was UP and I was getting crushed by RR's left and right. I was actually thinking earlier today that if the Amarr scout isn't in 1.8 I might get my Caldari Assault to proto next instead of Amarr because the LR is so useless now. That was a depressing thought. I'd like to keep the same damage increase mechanic too. That's what makes it unique. There definitely needs to be a damage and range progression with tiers along with an across-the-board increase in damage and range. The beta viziam was only (ok, mostly) OP because there were no other long-range weapons. The RR and newly range-buffed ScR and AR have obliterated that. The massive dropoff at the end of the optimal for what is supposed to be a long range weapon has always been kinda ridiculous, too. Part of why both I and Wolf would love to see the damage increase tied to the time the beam is on the target is because that would allow the range on the weapon to be opened up to far more than it is now without resulting in bitching about it being overpowered. A skilled user could still easily keep the beam on their target and build up heat on the target's suit to kill them. Personally, I'd love to have the weapon have a smooth falloff curve out to a very long extreme range, meaning that longer range shots require the beam to be on the target longer, and thus balancing out its range capability. That totally changes the mechanics of using the weapon. That's no fun! The whole "oh dear look how terrible my aim is, I sure do suck at Dust... aaand now I just ninja melted you and 2 of your buddies faces, thanks for playing" is seriously the greatest tactic of all time. A close second is leading people until they basically clothesline themselves on your beam. God damn I love that. Time on target would actually make it LESS useful because you couldn't really engage multiple targets as effectively as you can they way it is now. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7562	Posted - 2013.12.21 08:38:00 - [20] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: It's tragic what has happened to the gentleman's weapon, it's been rendered useless twice now. Tried to use it last night just to see if it really was UP and I was getting crushed by RR's left and right. I was actually thinking earlier today that if the Amarr scout isn't in 1.8 I might get my Caldari Assault to proto next instead of Amarr because the LR is so useless now. That was a depressing thought. I'd like to keep the same damage increase mechanic too. That's what makes it unique. There definitely needs to be a damage and range progression with tiers along with an across-the-board increase in damage and range. The beta viziam was only (ok, mostly) OP because there were no other long-range weapons. The RR and newly range-buffed ScR and AR have obliterated that. The massive dropoff at the end of the optimal for what is supposed to be a long range weapon has always been kinda ridiculous, too. Part of why both I and Wolf would love to see the damage increase tied to the time the beam is on the target is because that would allow the range on the weapon to be opened up to far more than it is now without resulting in bitching about it being overpowered. A skilled user could still easily keep the beam on their target and build up heat on the target's suit to kill them. Personally, I'd love to have the weapon have a smooth falloff curve out to a very long extreme range, meaning that longer range shots require the beam to be on the target longer, and thus balancing out its range capability. That totally changes the mechanics of using the weapon. That's no fun! The whole "oh dear look how terrible my aim is, I sure do suck at Dust... aaand now I just ninja melted you and 2 of your buddies faces, thanks for playing" is seriously the greatest tactic of all time. A close second is leading people until they basically clothesline themselves on your beam. God damn I love that. Time on target would actually make it LESS useful because you couldn't really engage multiple targets as effectively as you can they way it is now. The increased viable range would make up for not being able to engage multiple targets. I guess it would be cool to have a variant of the laser rifle have damage build up on the beam instead of the person. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1921	Posted - 2013.12.21 18:31:00 - [21] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: The increased viable range would make up for not being able to engage multiple targets. I guess it would be cool to have a variant of the laser rifle have damage build up on the beam instead of the person. But the ability to engage multiple targets is the reason I like the LR as much as I do. I love using it as an area denial weapon. Try to kill it all you want CCP, I still <3 my laser.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7675	Posted - 2013.12.30 10:29:00 - [22] - Quote Fix it! Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 203	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:33:00 - [23] - Quote so the lazer rifle will be back to OP before uprising. CCP cant buff anything without braking something else. cant wait 1.7 HMG hotfix works great. Now for more Heavy suits or guns soonGäó
Jooki Chewaka Stalking Wolfpack 71	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:55:00 - [24] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: 1.7 is here, the AR and SCR got a range buff, and the rail rifle is now the king of ranged combat aside from the sniper rifle. The laser rifle has lost its already questionable niche. Problems with the laser rifle Low damage up close, then it gets good, then it gets crappy again. The band of effective range on the laser beam is only 66-88 meters, that's only a 23 meter effective range. Basically this weapon is only good for only a specific 23 meters, otherwise it sucks. Its also just counter-intuitive that a gun would do less damage up close; sure you can say its because of the focus on the laser's lenses, but it makes no sense why the lenses wouldn't already be focused. Even when in its optimal or effective range, the rail rifles can still dominate the laser rifle users with their range. A rail rifle's range can be from 85 to 102 meters depending on the tier. An advanced or prototype rail rifle has the range advantage over a laser rifle. Unlike the laser rifle, the rail rifle doesn't suddenly start doing less damage at close ranges. Overheat damage increments with tier. This is just terrible, higher tier weapons are suppose to be better than their lower tier predecessors, not just better in some ways but worse in some ways. Overheat damage needs to be the same for all tiers, or should get lower as the tier increases. Solutions Make the optimal range start from 0 meters like any other gun. This will make the laser rifle actually not worthless in close range, and allow it to be useful for more than just a short 23 meters of distance. You may be thinking "but the laser rifle is meant to be for mid-long range", but so is the sniper rifle, but shots do full damage if you can hit the target at close range. The base damage can also be lowered if needed. Agreed to all KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Obviously the range thing would be a huge buff, and might make the laser rifle OP. To balance it, damage buildup should not be based on how long the laser has fired, but how long it has been hitting the target. The longer you hit the target, the more damage should increase. The heat buildup on the target should decrease slowly when the laser stops hitting it, but should not automatically reset. It will reward precise aiming skill, and also makes sense because the laser should be heating up the enemy's from continuous fire. This makes no sense, why should the weapon stop building up heat when its not hitting the target? KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Standardize overheat feedback damage, or reduce the feedback damage as the tier increases. Higher tier weapons should not perform worse in any way to their standard counterparts. Youre overlooking that the highger tier lasers build less heat per second. As a solution, i would say that instead of making it make damage at close range, do half its damage, and also increase its range to pair it, or make it similar to the rail rifle. Another thing thats bugging me its the need to reload, so heres the thing, its energy right? so basically what we are replacing are batteries, the handicap the laser has is that one must stop shooting, because the weapon has overheated or to avoid it, then why dont they make that one doesnt need to reload? we still have to stop shooting at a given time, i say this because, the handicap of the overheat its MUCH bigger than the 0.25 load time of the rail rifle. See you from orbit
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1511	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:58:00 - [25] - Quote GET ATMESON wrote: so the lazer rifle will be back to OP before uprising. CCP cant buff anything without braking something else. cant wait Laz0r rifles (spell it correctly, please!) were only OP in beta because their range was dramatically longer than any other weapon. The RR eliminates that straight out of the gate. Every single racial rifle has a better range profile than the LR right now. It's absurd that a Gallente weapon (duvolle) has an effective range only 10m less than an LR. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7820	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:10:00 - [26] - Quote Jooki Chewaka wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Problems with the laser rifle Low damage up close, then it gets good, then it gets crappy again. The band of effective range on the laser beam is only 66-88 meters, that's only a 23 meter effective range. Basically this weapon is only good for only a specific 23 meters, otherwise it sucks. Its also just counter-intuitive that a gun would do less damage up close; sure you can say its because of the focus on the laser's lenses, but it makes no sense why the lenses wouldn't already be focused. Even when in its optimal or effective range, the rail rifles can still dominate the laser rifle users with their range. A rail rifle's range can be from 85 to 102 meters depending on the tier. An advanced or prototype rail rifle has the range advantage over a laser rifle. Unlike the laser rifle, the rail rifle doesn't suddenly start doing less damage at close ranges. Overheat damage increments with tier. This is just terrible, higher tier weapons are suppose to be better than their lower tier predecessors, not just better in some ways but worse in some ways. Overheat damage needs to be the same for all tiers, or should get lower as the tier increases. Solutions Make the optimal range start from 0 meters like any other gun. This will make the laser rifle actually not worthless in close range, and allow it to be useful for more than just a short 23 meters of distance. You may be thinking "but the laser rifle is meant to be for mid-long range", but so is the sniper rifle, but shots do full damage if you can hit the target at close range. The base damage can also be lowered if needed. Agreed to all KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Obviously the range thing would be a huge buff, and might make the laser rifle OP. To balance it, damage buildup should not be based on how long the laser has fired, but how long it has been hitting the target. The longer you hit the target, the more damage should increase. The heat buildup on the target should decrease slowly when the laser stops hitting it, but should not automatically reset. It will reward precise aiming skill, and also makes sense because the laser should be heating up the enemy's from continuous fire. This makes no sense, why should the weapon stop building up heat when its not hitting the target? Why dont instead make that at close range it does 60% of its damage? KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Standardize overheat feedback damage, or reduce the feedback damage as the tier increases. Higher tier weapons should not perform worse in any way to their standard counterparts. Youre overlooking that the highger tier lasers build less heat per second, but they don't do more damage, so the more damage feedback makes no sense, i think that the solution would be thgat higher tiers do same damage at all tiers, but build up less over time. Another thing thats bugging me its the need to reload, so heres the thing, its energy right? so basically what we are replacing are batteries, the handicap the laser has is that one must stop shooting, because the weapon has overheated or to avoid it, then why dont they make that one doesnt need to reload? we still have to stop shooting at a given time, i say this because, the handicap of the overheat its MUCH bigger than the 0.25 load time of the rail rifle. I think you misunderstand, heat buildup would be the same whether or not the laser is heating the target, but damage buildup should only happen on the target, and the damage buildup that happened on the target (from heating the dropsuit with the lasert) should start going back down when the laser is no longer hitting it. I realized I phrased it in a confusing way, I will fix it. I am aware of the less heat buildup per level, but one positive does not justify a negative. Higher tier version of the same weapons are ALWAYS better than the lower tier ones in performance, the laser rifle is the only one where the higher tier ones must pay with a performance con for a pro. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Jooki Chewaka Stalking Wolfpack 71	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:27:00 - [27] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I think you misunderstand, heat buildup would be the same whether or not the laser is heating the target, but damage buildup should only happen on the target, and the damage buildup that happened on the target (from heating the dropsuit with the lasert) should start going back down when the laser is no longer hitting it. I realized I phrased it in a confusing way, I will fix it. Oh, i see, i understand now, you mean that the more "worm" the weapon it the bigger its damage output. I understand and still dont agree, as i see it, this is like ovens, or toaster machines, they have a working optimal temperature, there is a lot of skill involved on firing the gun stoping and firing again, keeping it at its optimal temperature, its beam its on the optimal temperature. But still what youre saying makes also sense, if the beam, regardless its temperature stop hitting the surface, means that that surface is getting cooler, but if that where the case, then people should also suffer from a damage over time effect, until their suit cools totally... i dont know, i think both concepts make sense. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I am aware of the less heat buildup per level, but one positive does not justify a negative. Higher tier version of the same weapons are ALWAYS better than the lower tier ones in performance, the laser rifle is the only one where the higher tier ones must pay with a performance con for a pro. Thats absolutely right, its stupid that a better gun is worse in some way. But still i think that proto tier having a slightly lower build up rate is enough, having the same damage for overheat than the other ones. To be honest, i can use proto laser, but i use eve collectors edition bpo :P See you from orbit
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1072	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:33:00 - [28] - Quote I loved the laser rifle in 1.7. not because it was better than other guns, but it had a fun range mechanic. now I only use it to kill people on roofs.
Jooki Chewaka Stalking Wolfpack 72	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:36:00 - [29] - Quote low genius wrote: I loved the laser rifle in 1.7. not because it was better than other guns, but it had a fun range mechanic. now I only use it to kill people on roofs. Ive had people moking at me LOL THIS DUDE USING A LASER YO... dude wtf im not a carebear using proto rail rifle and suit and aim assistance because if i get killed to much i will range and throw the controller to the ground while yellin GODDAMIT U CHEATR... and then proceeded to steal them a couple-o'frags. See you from orbit
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 502	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:06:00 - [30] - Quote The only way I could get behind the "time on target to increase damage" would be if that happened at any range. Fired alone it would only be long range, but continually damaging a target and any range would shift the effective range of the laser to their distance. Something like a .5 seconds for every 20 meters the target is from the effective range; as if the laser was adjusting the focusing crystal. Of course it would reset upon the release of the trigger and since one can only fire until the heat burn out scalds you at 2-4 seconds it would not be effective close range, but may at times be effective and medium and long range. Oh, and freaking longer range! The Logi Code. Guide to LogiBro Success

Jooki Chewaka Stalking Wolfpack 75	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:45:00 - [31] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: [...] I agree with you in almost everything, but, RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Of course it would reset upon the release of the trigger and since one can only fire until the heat burn out scalds you at 2-4 seconds it would not be effective close range Why should it? I mean, you have to think that weapons have handicaps, and laser rifle already suffers from, imho, the hardest handicap all weapons have, which is feedback damage, adding what you say is adding a second handicap, i mean, i agree that it should have a 0,5 seconds focusing time, but still, if you stop firing, why should it reset? why should the weapon have programmed that upon trigger release it has to start a servo engine to close an iris and retract a lens...? this servoengine should only move when the IR or ultrasound focusing engine tells it to... like SLR cameras do. which is when the focusing distance changes, actually, SLR cameras not even change focus when they are turned off. See you from orbit
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 515	Posted - 2014.01.08 23:39:00 - [32] - Quote Jooki Chewaka wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: [...] I agree with you in almost everything, but, RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Of course it would reset upon the release of the trigger and since one can only fire until the heat burn out scalds you at 2-4 seconds it would not be effective close range Why should it? I mean, you have to think that weapons have handicaps, and laser rifle already suffers from, imho, the hardest handicap all weapons have, which is feedback damage, adding what you say is adding a second handicap, i mean, i agree that it should have a 0,5 seconds focusing time, but still, if you stop firing, why should it reset? why should the weapon have programmed that upon trigger release it has to start a servo engine to close an iris and retract a lens...? this servoengine should only move when the IR or ultrasound focusing engine tells it to... like SLR cameras do. which is when the focusing distance changes, actually, SLR cameras not even change focus when they are turned off. I would only have it reset as keeping the last distance setting would mess with acquiring a new target and having to remember the last range is more than what i want to keep track of. Knowing that it will always be a distance weapon that will cover the long and med ranges gives it a standard to operate by in a shooting game. If it could become a close range weapon because it could be tweaked over time to work close ranged it would alter the nature of the weapon and the intent. I would not support it. Having the weapon reset itself each time ensures that it remains a med/long/further weapon - the long range shotgun - and it keeps the weapon at its intended function. Because it is an FPS game there must be some rules and a way to measure and limit every weapon so that one does not become too OP and the game doesn't become too complicated. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
Akdhar Saif Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 150	Posted - 2014.01.09 02:36:00 - [33] - Quote I personally believe that the current LR has three main problems, overheat, damage build up and the location give away . not only do you have to build damage up but the laser gives away your position and then once you've got a decent DPS you either overheat or have to reload. There are just too many downsides to the LR for it to be effective. Maybe change the overheat mechanic so it only starts heating up when you've hit max DPS and remove ammo. That way you can shoot for a decent amount of time.
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 181	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:26:00 - [34] - Quote I am not an avid LR user, but have tinkered with it some. I agree with you all that it needs to be the answer to the RR, but I disagree that Time On Target should increase dmg. Here's why: Like the mass driver, in my mind, the LR is as much of an area denial weapon as a killing weapon. If you want to stop an infantry push dead in its tracks, get two lasers on the field. Just seeing that damn beam is enough of a deterrent to stay away. But if I know that all I have to do is juke the AA off of me to stop the damage build up, then GG laser, my min assault can now get close enough to wreck face. The biggest threat of the LR build up over time is that the longer the beam is active the more deadly it is. So if you have time on target as the way to register damage build up, then you'd better "git gud". A strafing suit at 100m will not be easy to hold onto. However a strafing suit that runs through a charged laser at 100m will get melted. That's why time on target is a bad proposal...yes it will make the laser more like the other rifles, but it will also change the nature of the gun from an area denial weapon (where 1 guy can stop 3 enemy in their tracks), to a 1v1 engagement weapon.
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1544	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:13:00 - [35] - Quote LR is my favorite weapon and it works well at its range. I am not a big fan of the damage over time thing. I wouldn't mind another point or two on the DPS in the advance/prototype but for the most part the LR is good. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Threvis Valan 0hh Really 0	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:44:00 - [36] - Quote +1
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 271	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:01:00 - [37] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: 1.7 is here, the AR and SCR got a range buff, and the rail rifle is now the king of ranged combat aside from the sniper rifle. The laser rifle has lost its already questionable niche. Problems with the laser rifle Low damage up close, then it gets good, then it gets crappy again. The band of effective range on the laser beam is only 66-88 meters, that's only a 23 meter effective range. Basically this weapon is only good for only a specific 23 meters, otherwise it sucks. Its also just counter-intuitive that a gun would do less damage up close; sure you can say its because of the focus on the laser's lenses, but it makes no sense why the lenses wouldn't already be focused. Even when in its optimal or effective range, the rail rifles can still dominate the laser rifle users with their range. A rail rifle's range can be from 85 to 102 meters depending on the tier. An advanced or prototype rail rifle has the range advantage over a laser rifle. Unlike the laser rifle, the rail rifle doesn't suddenly start doing less damage at close ranges. Overheat damage increments with tier. This is just terrible, higher tier weapons are suppose to be better than their lower tier predecessors, not just better in some ways but worse in some ways. Overheat damage needs to be the same for all tiers, or should get lower as the tier increases. Solutions Make the optimal range start from 0 meters like any other gun. This will make the laser rifle actually not worthless in close range, and allow it to be useful for more than just a short 23 meters of distance. You may be thinking "but the laser rifle is meant to be for mid-long range", but so is the sniper rifle, but shots do full damage if you can hit the target at close range. The base damage can also be lowered if needed. Obviously the range thing would be a huge buff, and might make the laser rifle OP. To balance it, damage buildup should not be based on how long the laser has fired, but how long it has been hitting the target. The longer you hit the target, the more damage should increase. The damage buildup on the target's dropsuit should decrease slowly until it resets when the laser stops hitting it since the laser is no longer heating up the target. It will reward precise aiming skill, and also makes sense because the laser should be heating up the enemy's from continuous fire. Standardize overheat feedback damage, or reduce the feedback damage as the tier increases. Higher tier weapons should not perform worse in any way to their standard counterparts. Save the laser rifle. Yes for the optimal range begins at 0 meters. But seriously STOP asking buff for weapons here and there..... Just nerf these 4 rifles and weapons balance are 90% RULED.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1962	Posted - 2014.01.13 21:53:00 - [38] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: LR is my favorite weapon and it works well at its range. I am not a big fan of the damage over time thing. I wouldn't mind another point or two on the DPS in the advance/prototype but for the most part the LR is good. The LR desperately needs a useful passive bonus from the skill (cool down is useless) and it needs to have the higher tiers actually be better guns. Right now the LR is the only weapon that effectively has no higher tier. Try to kill it all you want CCP, I still <3 my laser.
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4458	Posted - 2014.01.14 13:08:00 - [39] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: It's tragic what has happened to the gentleman's weapon, it's been rendered useless twice now. Tried to use it last night just to see if it really was UP and I was getting crushed by RR's left and right. I was actually thinking earlier today that if the Amarr scout isn't in 1.8 I might get my Caldari Assault to proto next instead of Amarr because the LR is so useless now. That was a depressing thought. I'd like to keep the same damage increase mechanic too. That's what makes it unique. There definitely needs to be a damage and range progression with tiers along with an across-the-board increase in damage and range. The beta viziam was only (ok, mostly) OP because there were no other long-range weapons. The RR and newly range-buffed ScR and AR have obliterated that. The massive dropoff at the end of the optimal for what is supposed to be a long range weapon has always been kinda ridiculous, too. Part of why both I and Wolf would love to see the damage increase tied to the time the beam is on the target is because that would allow the range on the weapon to be opened up to far more than it is now without resulting in bitching about it being overpowered. A skilled user could still easily keep the beam on their target and build up heat on the target's suit to kill them. Personally, I'd love to have the weapon have a smooth falloff curve out to a very long extreme range, meaning that longer range shots require the beam to be on the target longer, and thus balancing out its range capability. That totally changes the mechanics of using the weapon. That's no fun! The whole "oh dear look how terrible my aim is, I sure do suck at Dust... aaand now I just ninja melted you and 2 of your buddies faces, thanks for playing" is seriously the greatest tactic of all time. A close second is leading people until they basically clothesline themselves on your beam. God damn I love that. Time on target would actually make it LESS useful because you couldn't really engage multiple targets as effectively as you can they way it is now. The increased viable range would make up for not being able to engage multiple targets. I guess it would be cool to have a variant of the laser rifle have damage build up on the beam instead of the person. What should also be kept in mind is that this would come on the heels of an increased damage build-up rate. The way I was thinking about it, the damage to the target would build at that higher rate, but whenever the beam is off target the damage will fall off at about a third that speed. This way you aren't overly penalized if the beam falls off target for a few seconds, but the enemy can also give you a hard time if their "strafe game" is good enough. It encourages skillful play on both sides. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8229	Posted - 2014.01.20 21:44:00 - [40] - Quote Fix it! Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

Lonewolf Heavy ROGUE SPADES 22	Posted - 2014.01.20 21:58:00 - [41] - Quote Can't remember which dev, but one of them said Laser rifle is getting a hotfix this week Blueberries are delicious and an essential part of my diet ;) Commando/Heavy Willing to PC for anyone for a low price
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8229	Posted - 2014.01.20 22:48:00 - [42] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Can't remember which dev, but one of them said Laser rifle is getting a hotfix this week He also said they'd hotfix to add WP for damaging vehicles; still waiting on that. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Lonewolf Heavy ROGUE SPADES 25	Posted - 2014.01.21 00:16:00 - [43] - Quote they said that one less then a week ago so yea Blueberries are delicious and an essential part of my diet ;) Commando/Heavy Willing to PC for anyone for a low price
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8230	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:02:00 - [44] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: they said that one less then a week ago so yea The WP for vehicle damage one was said back in December. Perhaps its something that can't be hotfixed. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Dustoff Thorn Defenders of the Helghast Dream 3	Posted - 2014.02.07 14:07:00 - [45] - Quote I absolutely love the LR, but the viziam cannot keep up with a kaalakiota rail rifle. This is an issue and the main issue for this weapon. Many have said give it dmg increases with increasing tiers, and that may help. Ultimately it needs to be the second longest range weapon, under the super rifle range. A rail rifle should not be able to out distance it in the same tier. So the unlisted stat of effective and optimal ranges should be listed for every weapon. For laser rifles the increase in distance for each tier should increase much more than others because it's base dmg does not increase. For example the STD rail and laser rifle should have similar ranges, but at PRO the laser should greatly out distance the rail. Second, increased cool down is not what you want because it does more dmg when hot. A slower heat increase would probably be a better option for this weapons passive skill. Yes I know that is what the Amarr assault suit does already. We can discuss a balance between Amarr suits and their weapon heat dispersion in a different thread. Finally, the close range dmg decrease would also lessen as the weapon tier increases. So a STD would decrease starting at 60m, but PRO wouldn't decrease until 30m for example. This will increase this weapons versatility without completely pulling it out of its "niche."
Nocturnal Soul Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 1856	Posted - 2014.02.07 17:40:00 - [46] - Quote Things the LR need: That camera scope back The laser sound effect The reload sound effect A increase to range Damage done with heat-build-up Decrease in feedback damage in upper tiers New born sAMARRi
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 175	Posted - 2014.02.07 18:08:00 - [47] - Quote I'm sick of a red dot sight. ccps needs to come up with something more creative for the sights. Smg has cool flip up sights, they need more creative oddball sights like that. I don't like the damage idea, it's fine the way it is now, just needs more range and some minor stat adjustments. I'm still in favor of a new sight.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1254	Posted - 2014.02.17 17:57:00 - [48] - Quote I love the lr and I don't want it to be like the other weapons. it does need to have an equivalent optimal range. if it's going to start dealing damage at 65m, then it stands to reason it should do optimal damage out to 105


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