DUST Search - [Request] Rebuild the laser rifle post-1.7

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

1.7 is here, the AR and SCR got a range buff, and the rail rifle is now the king of ranged combat aside from the sniper rifle. The laser rifle has lost its already questionable niche.

Problems with the laser rifle

Low damage up close, then it gets good, then it gets crappy again. The band of effective range on the laser beam is only 66-88 meters, that's only a 23 meter effective range. Basically this weapon is only good for only a specific 23 meters, otherwise it sucks. Its also just counter-intuitive that a gun would do less damage up close; sure you can say its because of the focus on the laser's lenses, but it makes no sense why the lenses wouldn't already be focused.

Even when in its optimal or effective range, the rail rifles can still dominate the laser rifle users with their range. A rail rifle's range can be from 85 to 102 meters depending on the tier. An advanced or prototype rail rifle has the range advantage over a laser rifle. Unlike the laser rifle, the rail rifle doesn't suddenly start doing less damage at close ranges.

Overheat damage increments with tier. This is just terrible, higher tier weapons are suppose to be better than their lower tier predecessors, not just better in some ways but worse in some ways. Overheat damage needs to be the same for all tiers, or should get lower as the tier increases.

Solutions

Make the optimal range start from 0 meters like any other gun. This will make the laser rifle actually not worthless in close range, and allow it to be useful for more than just a short 23 meters of distance. You may be thinking "but the laser rifle is meant to be for mid-long range", but so is the sniper rifle, but shots do full damage if you can hit the target at close range. The base damage can also be lowered if needed.

Obviously the range thing would be a huge buff, and might make the laser rifle OP. To balance it, damage buildup should not be based on how long the laser has fired, but how long it has been hitting the target. The longer you hit the target, the more damage should increase. The damage buildup on the target's dropsuit should decrease slowly until it resets when the laser stops hitting it since the laser is no longer heating up the target. It will reward precise aiming skill, and also makes sense because the laser should be heating up the enemy's from continuous fire.

Standardize overheat feedback damage, or reduce the feedback damage as the tier increases. Higher tier weapons should not perform worse in any way to their standard counterparts.

Save the laser rifle.

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Jooki Chewaka Stalking Wolfpack 75	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:45:00 - [31] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: [...] I agree with you in almost everything, but, RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Of course it would reset upon the release of the trigger and since one can only fire until the heat burn out scalds you at 2-4 seconds it would not be effective close range Why should it? I mean, you have to think that weapons have handicaps, and laser rifle already suffers from, imho, the hardest handicap all weapons have, which is feedback damage, adding what you say is adding a second handicap, i mean, i agree that it should have a 0,5 seconds focusing time, but still, if you stop firing, why should it reset? why should the weapon have programmed that upon trigger release it has to start a servo engine to close an iris and retract a lens...? this servoengine should only move when the IR or ultrasound focusing engine tells it to... like SLR cameras do. which is when the focusing distance changes, actually, SLR cameras not even change focus when they are turned off. See you from orbit
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 515	Posted - 2014.01.08 23:39:00 - [32] - Quote Jooki Chewaka wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: [...] I agree with you in almost everything, but, RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Of course it would reset upon the release of the trigger and since one can only fire until the heat burn out scalds you at 2-4 seconds it would not be effective close range Why should it? I mean, you have to think that weapons have handicaps, and laser rifle already suffers from, imho, the hardest handicap all weapons have, which is feedback damage, adding what you say is adding a second handicap, i mean, i agree that it should have a 0,5 seconds focusing time, but still, if you stop firing, why should it reset? why should the weapon have programmed that upon trigger release it has to start a servo engine to close an iris and retract a lens...? this servoengine should only move when the IR or ultrasound focusing engine tells it to... like SLR cameras do. which is when the focusing distance changes, actually, SLR cameras not even change focus when they are turned off. I would only have it reset as keeping the last distance setting would mess with acquiring a new target and having to remember the last range is more than what i want to keep track of. Knowing that it will always be a distance weapon that will cover the long and med ranges gives it a standard to operate by in a shooting game. If it could become a close range weapon because it could be tweaked over time to work close ranged it would alter the nature of the weapon and the intent. I would not support it. Having the weapon reset itself each time ensures that it remains a med/long/further weapon - the long range shotgun - and it keeps the weapon at its intended function. Because it is an FPS game there must be some rules and a way to measure and limit every weapon so that one does not become too OP and the game doesn't become too complicated. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
Akdhar Saif Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 150	Posted - 2014.01.09 02:36:00 - [33] - Quote I personally believe that the current LR has three main problems, overheat, damage build up and the location give away . not only do you have to build damage up but the laser gives away your position and then once you've got a decent DPS you either overheat or have to reload. There are just too many downsides to the LR for it to be effective. Maybe change the overheat mechanic so it only starts heating up when you've hit max DPS and remove ammo. That way you can shoot for a decent amount of time.
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 181	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:26:00 - [34] - Quote I am not an avid LR user, but have tinkered with it some. I agree with you all that it needs to be the answer to the RR, but I disagree that Time On Target should increase dmg. Here's why: Like the mass driver, in my mind, the LR is as much of an area denial weapon as a killing weapon. If you want to stop an infantry push dead in its tracks, get two lasers on the field. Just seeing that damn beam is enough of a deterrent to stay away. But if I know that all I have to do is juke the AA off of me to stop the damage build up, then GG laser, my min assault can now get close enough to wreck face. The biggest threat of the LR build up over time is that the longer the beam is active the more deadly it is. So if you have time on target as the way to register damage build up, then you'd better "git gud". A strafing suit at 100m will not be easy to hold onto. However a strafing suit that runs through a charged laser at 100m will get melted. That's why time on target is a bad proposal...yes it will make the laser more like the other rifles, but it will also change the nature of the gun from an area denial weapon (where 1 guy can stop 3 enemy in their tracks), to a 1v1 engagement weapon.
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1544	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:13:00 - [35] - Quote LR is my favorite weapon and it works well at its range. I am not a big fan of the damage over time thing. I wouldn't mind another point or two on the DPS in the advance/prototype but for the most part the LR is good. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Threvis Valan 0hh Really 0	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:44:00 - [36] - Quote +1
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 271	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:01:00 - [37] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: 1.7 is here, the AR and SCR got a range buff, and the rail rifle is now the king of ranged combat aside from the sniper rifle. The laser rifle has lost its already questionable niche. Problems with the laser rifle Low damage up close, then it gets good, then it gets crappy again. The band of effective range on the laser beam is only 66-88 meters, that's only a 23 meter effective range. Basically this weapon is only good for only a specific 23 meters, otherwise it sucks. Its also just counter-intuitive that a gun would do less damage up close; sure you can say its because of the focus on the laser's lenses, but it makes no sense why the lenses wouldn't already be focused. Even when in its optimal or effective range, the rail rifles can still dominate the laser rifle users with their range. A rail rifle's range can be from 85 to 102 meters depending on the tier. An advanced or prototype rail rifle has the range advantage over a laser rifle. Unlike the laser rifle, the rail rifle doesn't suddenly start doing less damage at close ranges. Overheat damage increments with tier. This is just terrible, higher tier weapons are suppose to be better than their lower tier predecessors, not just better in some ways but worse in some ways. Overheat damage needs to be the same for all tiers, or should get lower as the tier increases. Solutions Make the optimal range start from 0 meters like any other gun. This will make the laser rifle actually not worthless in close range, and allow it to be useful for more than just a short 23 meters of distance. You may be thinking "but the laser rifle is meant to be for mid-long range", but so is the sniper rifle, but shots do full damage if you can hit the target at close range. The base damage can also be lowered if needed. Obviously the range thing would be a huge buff, and might make the laser rifle OP. To balance it, damage buildup should not be based on how long the laser has fired, but how long it has been hitting the target. The longer you hit the target, the more damage should increase. The damage buildup on the target's dropsuit should decrease slowly until it resets when the laser stops hitting it since the laser is no longer heating up the target. It will reward precise aiming skill, and also makes sense because the laser should be heating up the enemy's from continuous fire. Standardize overheat feedback damage, or reduce the feedback damage as the tier increases. Higher tier weapons should not perform worse in any way to their standard counterparts. Save the laser rifle. Yes for the optimal range begins at 0 meters. But seriously STOP asking buff for weapons here and there..... Just nerf these 4 rifles and weapons balance are 90% RULED.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1962	Posted - 2014.01.13 21:53:00 - [38] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: LR is my favorite weapon and it works well at its range. I am not a big fan of the damage over time thing. I wouldn't mind another point or two on the DPS in the advance/prototype but for the most part the LR is good. The LR desperately needs a useful passive bonus from the skill (cool down is useless) and it needs to have the higher tiers actually be better guns. Right now the LR is the only weapon that effectively has no higher tier. Try to kill it all you want CCP, I still <3 my laser.
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4458	Posted - 2014.01.14 13:08:00 - [39] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: It's tragic what has happened to the gentleman's weapon, it's been rendered useless twice now. Tried to use it last night just to see if it really was UP and I was getting crushed by RR's left and right. I was actually thinking earlier today that if the Amarr scout isn't in 1.8 I might get my Caldari Assault to proto next instead of Amarr because the LR is so useless now. That was a depressing thought. I'd like to keep the same damage increase mechanic too. That's what makes it unique. There definitely needs to be a damage and range progression with tiers along with an across-the-board increase in damage and range. The beta viziam was only (ok, mostly) OP because there were no other long-range weapons. The RR and newly range-buffed ScR and AR have obliterated that. The massive dropoff at the end of the optimal for what is supposed to be a long range weapon has always been kinda ridiculous, too. Part of why both I and Wolf would love to see the damage increase tied to the time the beam is on the target is because that would allow the range on the weapon to be opened up to far more than it is now without resulting in bitching about it being overpowered. A skilled user could still easily keep the beam on their target and build up heat on the target's suit to kill them. Personally, I'd love to have the weapon have a smooth falloff curve out to a very long extreme range, meaning that longer range shots require the beam to be on the target longer, and thus balancing out its range capability. That totally changes the mechanics of using the weapon. That's no fun! The whole "oh dear look how terrible my aim is, I sure do suck at Dust... aaand now I just ninja melted you and 2 of your buddies faces, thanks for playing" is seriously the greatest tactic of all time. A close second is leading people until they basically clothesline themselves on your beam. God damn I love that. Time on target would actually make it LESS useful because you couldn't really engage multiple targets as effectively as you can they way it is now. The increased viable range would make up for not being able to engage multiple targets. I guess it would be cool to have a variant of the laser rifle have damage build up on the beam instead of the person. What should also be kept in mind is that this would come on the heels of an increased damage build-up rate. The way I was thinking about it, the damage to the target would build at that higher rate, but whenever the beam is off target the damage will fall off at about a third that speed. This way you aren't overly penalized if the beam falls off target for a few seconds, but the enemy can also give you a hard time if their "strafe game" is good enough. It encourages skillful play on both sides. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8229	Posted - 2014.01.20 21:44:00 - [40] - Quote Fix it! Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

Lonewolf Heavy ROGUE SPADES 22	Posted - 2014.01.20 21:58:00 - [41] - Quote Can't remember which dev, but one of them said Laser rifle is getting a hotfix this week Blueberries are delicious and an essential part of my diet ;) Commando/Heavy Willing to PC for anyone for a low price
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8229	Posted - 2014.01.20 22:48:00 - [42] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Can't remember which dev, but one of them said Laser rifle is getting a hotfix this week He also said they'd hotfix to add WP for damaging vehicles; still waiting on that. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Lonewolf Heavy ROGUE SPADES 25	Posted - 2014.01.21 00:16:00 - [43] - Quote they said that one less then a week ago so yea Blueberries are delicious and an essential part of my diet ;) Commando/Heavy Willing to PC for anyone for a low price
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8230	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:02:00 - [44] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: they said that one less then a week ago so yea The WP for vehicle damage one was said back in December. Perhaps its something that can't be hotfixed. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Dustoff Thorn Defenders of the Helghast Dream 3	Posted - 2014.02.07 14:07:00 - [45] - Quote I absolutely love the LR, but the viziam cannot keep up with a kaalakiota rail rifle. This is an issue and the main issue for this weapon. Many have said give it dmg increases with increasing tiers, and that may help. Ultimately it needs to be the second longest range weapon, under the super rifle range. A rail rifle should not be able to out distance it in the same tier. So the unlisted stat of effective and optimal ranges should be listed for every weapon. For laser rifles the increase in distance for each tier should increase much more than others because it's base dmg does not increase. For example the STD rail and laser rifle should have similar ranges, but at PRO the laser should greatly out distance the rail. Second, increased cool down is not what you want because it does more dmg when hot. A slower heat increase would probably be a better option for this weapons passive skill. Yes I know that is what the Amarr assault suit does already. We can discuss a balance between Amarr suits and their weapon heat dispersion in a different thread. Finally, the close range dmg decrease would also lessen as the weapon tier increases. So a STD would decrease starting at 60m, but PRO wouldn't decrease until 30m for example. This will increase this weapons versatility without completely pulling it out of its "niche."
Nocturnal Soul Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 1856	Posted - 2014.02.07 17:40:00 - [46] - Quote Things the LR need: That camera scope back The laser sound effect The reload sound effect A increase to range Damage done with heat-build-up Decrease in feedback damage in upper tiers New born sAMARRi
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 175	Posted - 2014.02.07 18:08:00 - [47] - Quote I'm sick of a red dot sight. ccps needs to come up with something more creative for the sights. Smg has cool flip up sights, they need more creative oddball sights like that. I don't like the damage idea, it's fine the way it is now, just needs more range and some minor stat adjustments. I'm still in favor of a new sight.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1254	Posted - 2014.02.17 17:57:00 - [48] - Quote I love the lr and I don't want it to be like the other weapons. it does need to have an equivalent optimal range. if it's going to start dealing damage at 65m, then it stands to reason it should do optimal damage out to 105


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