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Diesel Heat seeker FERAL OUTCASTS.INC 0	Posted - 2013.12.10 14:07:00 - [1] - Quote Anyone that has been in 1.7 knows that the distance has been significantly decreased. As a proto swarm I am not satisfied with the distance reduction and the hp damage reduction, I don't mind change but this is not a change that should have been implemented. As a loyal merc, I appreciate the 1.7 update but do not appreciate the distance and damage reduction. Hopefully everyone understands this. Now back to fighting on the floor.
SCAT mania Carbon 7 CRONOS. 435	Posted - 2013.12.10 14:18:00 - [2] - Quote the damage reduction was needed to be fair.. at least until they release proto vehicles. the range is a bit much.. they should have kept the range as it was, but given the swarm launcher an effective range. (say whatever range its at nw). so if the target in within the effective range it would do full damage. but the further the target is away from the effective range there would be less damage dealt or even a chance to miss.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 890	Posted - 2013.12.10 14:33:00 - [3] - Quote Nope, the range nerf was needed. Otherwise you had a skill-less weapon that can lock down objectives from the redline. In some maps, it could lock down all objectives from the redline. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Diesel Heat seeker FERAL OUTCASTS.INC 0	Posted - 2013.12.10 14:58:00 - [4] - Quote So then in the same type of range and damage, the sniper should also be reduced. I only see this hurting more than helping due to the fact that sniper, swarms and other long distance weapons are now being reduced which are carried by what are going to be mercs that have to now move in closer to even lock on to any target. I just hope that CCP is confident in the way they are pushing this game forward.
Happy Jack SD Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 40	Posted - 2013.12.10 15:14:00 - [5] - Quote Diesel Heat seeker wrote: So then in the same type of range and damage, the sniper should also be reduced. I only see this hurting more than helping due to the fact that sniper, swarms and other long distance weapons are now being reduced which are carried by what are going to be mercs that have to now move in closer to even lock on to any target. I just hope that CCP is confident in the way they are pushing this game forward. Just wanted to say that the "sniper" in this scenario is the Forge Gun, and it didn't have it's range reduced. From reading the patch notes I realize swarmers should definitely run in packs of at least 2, but I'll have to see how the changes feel once the Instal finishes "Have faith lest your unbelief consume you." -The Bleeding Chalice
abarkrishna WarRavens 168	Posted - 2013.12.10 15:16:00 - [6] - Quote Every game I have played has had 4 tanks minimum plus 2 assault dropships. Something is broken No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Happy Jack SD Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 40	Posted - 2013.12.10 15:20:00 - [7] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Every game I have played has had 4 tanks minimum plus 2 assault dropships. Something is broken Or every vehicle operator and their brother is out testing the new vehicles out... "Have faith lest your unbelief consume you." -The Bleeding Chalice
dogmanpig black market bank 74	Posted - 2013.12.10 16:10:00 - [8] - Quote Happy Jack SD wrote: abarkrishna wrote: Every game I have played has had 4 tanks minimum plus 2 assault dropships. Something is broken Or every vehicle operator and their brother is out testing the new vehicles out... and nothing is broken You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way. Level 7 1/3 Forum alt. "Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 612	Posted - 2013.12.10 16:37:00 - [9] - Quote anyone noticed the amount of tanks in fights now and no one killing them... there are more of them than the old murder taxi horde from the past. i pulled out a swarm to take on one and was mown down in secs by all the long range weapons we have now. i wont be pulling out anymore swarms for sure. its stupid to for ccp to think anyone is going to dedicate a proto setup to kill one vehicle only to be mown down a sec later. this is exactly what's happening now as you cant attack from any safe range anymore and lolsidearms against a AR/CR/SCR/RR in the open is pointless. can i have my sp back. i would be better off spending it in.... well anything but swarms would be better https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Diesel Heat seeker FERAL OUTCASTS.INC 0	Posted - 2013.12.10 17:51:00 - [10] - Quote Agreed that all swarms are now not worth the isk or the sp to put in them. I may stick with what I have been doing since beta (fat guy). Hopefully this all works out in the end.

DeadlyAztec11 2690	Posted - 2013.12.10 18:53:00 - [11] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: anyone noticed the amount of tanks in fights now and no one killing them... there are more of them than the old murder taxi horde from the past. i pulled out a swarm to take on one and was mown down in secs by all the long range weapons we have now. i wont be pulling out anymore swarms for sure. its stupid to for ccp to think anyone is going to dedicate a proto setup to kill one vehicle only to be mown down a sec later. this is exactly what's happening now as you cant attack from any safe range anymore and lolsidearms against a AR/CR/SCR/RR in the open is pointless. can i have my sp back. i would be better off spending it in.... well anything but swarms would be better I know, everybody is like "you have a sidearm". Yes my SMG is very effective against Protos with Duvolle's and Imperial's at 50m+ And getting closer is not an option: "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED" Followed by a pack of 'vapor' Core Locus grenades to the face. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
dogmanpig black market bank 74	Posted - 2013.12.10 18:57:00 - [12] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: anyone noticed the amount of tanks in fights now and no one killing them... there are more of them than the old murder taxi horde from the past. i pulled out a swarm to take on one and was mown down in secs by all the long range weapons we have now. i wont be pulling out anymore swarms for sure. its stupid to for ccp to think anyone is going to dedicate a proto setup to kill one vehicle only to be mown down a sec later. this is exactly what's happening now as you cant attack from any safe range anymore and lolsidearms against a AR/CR/SCR/RR in the open is pointless. can i have my sp back. i would be better off spending it in.... well anything but swarms would be better I know, everybody is like "you have a sidearm". Yes my SMG is very effective against Protos with Duvolle's and Imperial's at 50m+ And getting closer is not an option: "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED" Followed by a pack of 'vapor' Core Locus grenades to the face. wait what? we can now throw nades 50m+??? know now you always try the commando out for av if you want a light weapon and your swarms. You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way. Level 7 1/3 Forum alt. "Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 523	Posted - 2013.12.10 20:45:00 - [13] - Quote Don't bother with swarms as many above have said. Either use AV grenades or REs to take out tanks, and only when they are close enough to do damage. Otherwise concentrate on infantry vs. infantry. Swarms are useless now as light weapons. They should really be changed into equipment. Perhaps then they might still be of some use, mainly to ward off tanks that get too close.
lrian Locust Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 306	Posted - 2013.12.10 21:17:00 - [14] - Quote Diesel Heat seeker wrote: So then in the same type of range and damage, the sniper should also be reduced. I only see this hurting more than helping due to the fact that sniper, swarms and other long distance weapons are now being reduced which are carried by what are going to be mercs that have to now move in closer to even lock on to any target. I don't agree. The sniper has no lock-on or even aim assistance. Despite that, the zoom isn't very powerful, nor does they do much damage (194.5 for a proto tactical). From a long distance, a sniper is pretty useless unless they're dedicated and know the art of shooting moving pixels.
DeadlyAztec11 2694	Posted - 2013.12.10 22:01:00 - [15] - Quote dogmanpig wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: anyone noticed the amount of tanks in fights now and no one killing them... there are more of them than the old murder taxi horde from the past. i pulled out a swarm to take on one and was mown down in secs by all the long range weapons we have now. i wont be pulling out anymore swarms for sure. its stupid to for ccp to think anyone is going to dedicate a proto setup to kill one vehicle only to be mown down a sec later. this is exactly what's happening now as you cant attack from any safe range anymore and lolsidearms against a AR/CR/SCR/RR in the open is pointless. can i have my sp back. i would be better off spending it in.... well anything but swarms would be better I know, everybody is like "you have a sidearm". Yes my SMG is very effective against Protos with Duvolle's and Imperial's at 50m+ And getting closer is not an option: "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED" Followed by a pack of 'vapor' Core Locus grenades to the face. wait what? we can now throw nades 50m+??? know now you always try the commando out for av if you want a light weapon and your swarms. You misread my writing. I said it is unwise to engage high tier players at CQC by choice due to the high probability that you will be killed by a grenade before you can kill them due to their high hp. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 247	Posted - 2013.12.10 22:28:00 - [16] - Quote A sniper is only good at long range. Once you close the distance, their advantage is gone. Swarms are just as deadly at 1m as they are at 400m. Thus, they get a lock on Nerf. For those of you who are unclear on this, the 175m is the new lock on range. The missiles still travel beyond that to 400m.
lee corwood The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 14	Posted - 2013.12.10 22:39:00 - [17] - Quote I have a proto swarmer with damage mods and I can't solo a tank and I won't say that's a bad thing. Having my range cut down more than half...that was a little painful. It's especially painful on a suit that only has a sidearm to help with encountering proto ARs. That being said, for those complaining about the sheer number of tanks/vehicles on the field....its day one. You expected any less?? Pure Logi
MICKY KNOCKS The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 136	Posted - 2013.12.10 23:30:00 - [18] - Quote I have the wirkyormi swarm launcher with proficiency 4, rapid reload 5, and ammo capacity 3 fitted on an Amaar proto logi AK.0 with 3 complex 10% damage modifiers, a complex speed biotics, a complex stamina biotics, 2 enhanced profile dampeners, advanced A / V grenades, and an A-512 sub machine gun. Before the update I could take down a proto tank with about 10 to 15 rounds of 6-missile shots. This was extremely hard to do, because I would have to lay a nano hive down about 50 meters behind where I first engaged the tank, and as I retreated after I exhausted the first 9 rounds I would make a quick stop to re-up my ammo, then re-engage the tank hopefully for the kill. I have about 2 million SP into the swarm launcher skills, and around 2.5 million into the proto suit to hold all the gear, and probably about another 3 million in all the supporting modules and sidearm stuff. I specifically went with an Amaar to have a sidearm on a swarm launcher fitment, I specifically spec'd into the profile dampeners to be unseen by the HAV, and I specifically got into the speed and stamina biotics to have the ability to engage and evade the HAV on foot. My load out runs around $160K isk per spawn. If you think taking down a tank with one person is easy or "skill less" I am here to tell you otherwise. If you go up against a vet tanker with 8+ million SP invested, it is definitely not easy. However, if I came up against a less experienced HAV operator or LAV I could usually destroy it in less than 1 clip of 3 rounds (18 missiles). I completely understand the reduction of range as I have taken tanks out that were beyond a reasonable lock on range, but 175 meters is way to short of a range. I am trying to engage the basic tanks after this update and all they have to do is back out a few meters and I am unable to lock on, while they hammer me with there missiles. On top of this, the damage I am dishing out is exponentially lower because my proficiency skills and damage modifiers are based on a percentage of the base damage. Again, I could see a nerf of some degree if you thought it was necessary, but 33% from the base damage exponent is way over nerfed. Now I have guys in my corp that have never tanked before and they are un killable after investing around 1 million SP into their tank. What can kill them? Other tanks I guess. So can I please have my 2 million SP back for the swarm launcher skills I have spec'd into, because it is not worth getting a 3 man A / V team to take one down when I can just put the 2 million into a tank specifically designed to kill tanks. I am not whining about this, and I'm not going to be a baby about it on the comms in-game because I hate guys that do that. If you feel this was needed for the game, and this is how you want to fix your problem, that's fine it is your game and you are the experts. Can I just have the SP back that I invested though Please? I really like the factional update and the rendering is much improved so it's not all gloom and doom. Thank you for your time, sorry about the long post. 1st Commander/Director.The Dyst0pian Corporation Public Channel: Dyst0pian Discourse
lrian Locust Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 307	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:49:00 - [19] - Quote Seems like this will be the end of my swarm launcher career. I don't mind to become the priority target for AV, infantry and snipers as soon as I start firing, but I never liked that after you've blasted that annoying tank, you have to leg it all the way back to your base to change your suit. And now tanks are a lot faster, I need more shots and hives to kill them, AND the lock-on distance is getting close to AR-range, it's just too damn hard to play it effectively.
lee corwood The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 17	Posted - 2013.12.11 04:03:00 - [20] - Quote I also have a lot of SP sunk into Swarmers but I disagree with some of the QQing. After a round with these guys, I can say that in one match, 6 tanks were destroyed on both sides in a domination (not a very long game). That being said, the only thing I see slightly off with them is they are too fast in my opinion. A HAV shouldn't be faster than a LAV. I thought this was an exaggeration by peeps on the forums until I logged into my first game and had a tank roll up on me. That was an experience. That being said, two scenerios. I took out my proto swarmer, prof 3 with 3x damage mods. Hit him with 18 rockets and took out all his shields and 1/4 of his armor. He ran away faster than I could finish him and once he circled the building (again, small building and he was freaking fast) he was completely healed again. I think witnessed two guys throwing AV nades at it as it rolled up the hill. 2 of their grenades did more damage than 18 of my rockets. HOWEVER, other match (with the 6 death tanks), a group of 4 ganged up on the tank and a militia swarmer was what took it out. I laughed really hard. So, no, I don't think tanks are OP, I think the Swarmer was just cut down way too much too fast. Once the active repping is off (which is an obvious glow on the tank) that tank went down faster than anything I've seen. However, I'm certain I also was encountering militia tanks. I won't be using my swarmer again due to two factors: -the RR and CR hype left me completely vunerable on every map I pulled out my swarmer with my pitiful sidearm -as the rockets cannot be perfectly timed unless you're standing right next to it (which you're very unlikely to survive) so AV nades are way more reliable to hit the tank on time, especially with how tanks are chasing us across the map both of those reasons are enough to not justify the cost of bringing my swarmer into battle. AV and RE it is. Minmatar Logisis

Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 403	Posted - 2013.12.11 06:45:00 - [21] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Nope, the range nerf was needed. Otherwise you had a skill-less weapon that can lock down objectives from the redline. In some maps, it could lock down all objectives from the redline. Since when were SWARMs able to lock onto infantry? Keeping vehicles away from objectives while being able to do nothing against infantry is hardly locking down an objective. Introducing the latest in heavy anti infantry weaponry. The Forge Gun.
Leupox Dior Science For Death 0	Posted - 2013.12.11 12:48:00 - [22] - Quote Have to agree with the most of you, HAV's are way to fast and the short lock on range and the current lock on time it needs makes it hard to unleash all your rockets. If I do manage to get all my 3 shots out they usually still survive by running away unless I got help from ally tanks or AV infantry. It takes too much effort to take a tank or even a dropship down for what you get, they either should make the tanks slower or let us do a bit more DMG or increase the range with a swarm. In it's current state I'm not gonna use my swarm launcher (proto & wp4). Running around with a rail rifle for now 'Fossil' Militia Minmatar Medium Frame + M209 Assault Submachine Gun
lee corwood The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 23	Posted - 2013.12.11 21:56:00 - [23] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Harpyja wrote: Nope, the range nerf was needed. Otherwise you had a skill-less weapon that can lock down objectives from the redline. In some maps, it could lock down all objectives from the redline. Since when were SWARMs able to lock onto infantry? Keeping vehicles away from objectives while being able to do nothing against infantry is hardly locking down an objective. I don't think he meant we could knock down infantry. I think he meant that from our own redline, we could reach every objective on the map that a vehicle could be near. While not true in all cases, it was true on some maps. However, the removal of smart swarmers still made that a moot point as even my proto swarmers were likely to hit buildings on the way across the map. That being said, I'm ok with the range nerf, just not quite this bad. When I can reach across the map AND take out your vehicle while its still attached to the RDV, that's not balanced. I also shouldn't be able to solo a tank. Minmatar Logisis
bogeyman m Immortal Guides 0	Posted - 2013.12.11 22:11:00 - [24] - Quote Tanks are WAY too fast now. When they can outrun AV missiles (including the 1.x second lock time) something is broken. Additionally, Swarm Launchers are now useless. I am NOT a Proto level AVer. I run a meta-5 SwL with LDMs. I used to be able to take out Militia vehicles regularly, Advanced with some work/help, and the odd Proto if there were a couple more of us to team up. Now it's just a joke. I couldn't even clear the shields off a mid-level dropship at close range with 15 missiles - it escaped out of lock range before I could reload. When trying to 'influence' a tank, it took off in the opposite direction at warp speed and ducked behind a building before the missiles arrived (including lock time) - the missiles took a short cut INTO the building - the tank took zero damage and I got sniper from 504m away (tell me that sniper wasn't well inside the red zone). Even if is wasn't a sniper, running around in the middle of the action with my trusty SMG (which I normally do anyway) is not particularly safe when anyone with an AR/SR/RR/CR can camp out at TWICE my range and pick me off. If the original concern was to address red zone poaching, then fix THAT issue. Give me back my lock range, damage AND reduce my lock time. AND give me some credit for damage in SP/WP - even in ideal situations, it takes a lot of time to take down a well fitted vehicle only to get minimal credit for a kill. Oh, and slow down those ridiculously fast tanks.
Evane Sa'edi Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 81	Posted - 2013.12.11 23:01:00 - [25] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Tanks are WAY too fast now. When they can outrun AV missiles (including the 1.x second lock time) something is broken. Additionally, Swarm Launchers are now useless. I am NOT a Proto level AVer. I run a meta-5 SwL with LDMs. I used to be able to take out Militia vehicles regularly, Advanced with some work/help, and the odd Proto if there were a couple more of us to team up. Now it's just a joke. I couldn't even clear the shields off a mid-level dropship at close range with 15 missiles - it escaped out of lock range before I could reload. When trying to 'influence' a tank, it took off in the opposite direction at warp speed and ducked behind a building before the missiles arrived (including lock time) - the missiles took a short cut INTO the building - the tank took zero damage and I got sniper from 504m away (tell me that sniper wasn't well inside the red zone). Even if is wasn't a sniper, running around in the middle of the action with my trusty SMG (which I normally do anyway) is not particularly safe when anyone with an AR/SR/RR/CR can camp out at TWICE my range and pick me off. If the original concern was to address red zone poaching, then fix THAT issue. Give me back my lock range, damage AND reduce my lock time. AND give me some credit for damage in SP/WP - even in ideal situations, it takes a lot of time to take down a well fitted vehicle only to get minimal credit for a kill. Oh, and slow down those ridiculously fast tanks. Swarm missile damage was cut by 33% so that a proto launcher now only does the same damage as a basic forge gun, but the lock range was cut bt 50% down to 200m (100m less than a forge gun and over 400m less than a rail gun turret) I thought the idea of a man portable missile system would be to inflict damage enough to force a vehicle to either retreat or die. 20th century anti-armour systems have EQUAL TO OR GREATER range than the target they are used against. CCP what are your scientist doing with the ISK you spend on weapons development? Playing golf or getting drunk down the local Strip bar? HAV's should not outrun LAV's - check your settings. Dropships should do 300Km/h not HAV's. HAV's should only do between 90-100km/h at best, not attempting to leap tall building in a single bound using a small ramp.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 183	Posted - 2013.12.12 02:09:00 - [26] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Nope, the range nerf was needed. Otherwise you had a skill-less weapon that can lock down objectives from the redline. In some maps, it could lock down all objectives from the redline. Why do people use that term " skill less " , when it takes skill to acquire the weapon and to go prototype ??? Do you mean that it doesn't take skill to use ??? Again I beg to differ . I don't know of a skill less weapon in this game and if I'm wrong then please correct me . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 183	Posted - 2013.12.12 02:18:00 - [27] - Quote Evane Sa'edi wrote: [quote=bogeyman m] CCP what are your scientist doing with the ISK you spend on weapons development? Playing golf or getting drunk down the local Strip bar? I don't think so . If that was the case then they would be relaxed and in their right mind ( with the help of some medicinal ) and wouldn't have screwed up so much . People are standing in line to give them reach around en mass for this drop like it's the best thing since sliced bread . People it HAS to get better from how it was in the beginning . That's common sense . If a new player asked I would tell them not to skill into forge guns or swarm launcher because as it looks right now , it would be a big waste of skill points . I'm so glad that I didn't use any skill points from the drop to place them in either because I would have been upset to say the least . Level four is enough for me and now I wish I had those skill points back so that I could place them into something that would actually HELP me . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Reno Pechieu Algintal Core Gallente Federation 44	Posted - 2013.12.12 02:42:00 - [28] - Quote The damage reduction hurt the weapon, but range thing was over the top. Considering swarm-launchers are only able to lock on to vehicles, it seems ridiculous to reduce the weapons range against its primary target. Especially taken into consideration that a current man-portable lock-o fire and forget anti-tank missile have a 75 to 2500 meters! (The FGM-148 Javelin) Let me spell it out for you; a similar weapon we are using now beats the futuristic weapon by 2325 meters! ThatGÇªjustGÇªsadGÇª Now to drive it home, this is the first AV-weapon new players are given to use in public matches, I have a sneaking suspicion that few will think this will be worth the SP to invents into. The two secrets to be a good sadist: 1) Don't tell them everything you planned.
Leupox Dior Science For Death 3	Posted - 2013.12.12 10:48:00 - [29] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Harpyja wrote: Nope, the range nerf was needed. Otherwise you had a skill-less weapon that can lock down objectives from the redline. In some maps, it could lock down all objectives from the redline. Why do people use that term " skill less " , when it takes skill to acquire the weapon and to go prototype ??? Do you mean that it doesn't take skill to use ??? Again I beg to differ . I don't know of a skill less weapon in this game and if I'm wrong then please correct me . No, clue why they use the term skill less. Probably because they think when you got a lock they think you don't have to do any further aiming. Wish it was as easy as it sounded, takes much more skill then just get a lock on a HAV, LAV or Dropship. You got to predict in which direction the vehicle is going, are there any obstacles that might block the rockets when they are launched, in which angle do you launch the rockets to minimize the chance having them hit buildings or obstacles. In which direction do you launch them when you got a lock to make sure they dont outrun the rockets and make sure the travel time of the rockets are as short as possible by predicting in which direction they are gonna move. Check what your fellow AV's are doing and get a good position to hit the vehicle. HAV you want to try to hit from the back and LAV from the front for maximum impact. Appearently this is skill less?! I don't mind the nerf and that I'm unable to solo a tank anymore, but at the moment the impact we make now with a Swarm Launcher is as if I'm trying to shoot a tank with a SMG. 'Fossil' Militia Minmatar Medium Frame + M209 Assault Submachine Gun Twitter
Shaira Ilv Enna-Ress Maphia Clan Corporation 6	Posted - 2013.12.12 12:59:00 - [30] - Quote I can understand the damage reduction, but lowering the tracking range is pure BS. Now tanks move so fast they can get OOR before you can designate target. Not to mention AV grenades are now totally useless...



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