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Can we reinstate the Flaylock to it's prenerf glory?

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Cosgar ParagonX 8480	Posted - 2013.12.08 02:22:00 - [61] - Quote Just buff the damage, nerf RoF and raise CPU costs to be significantly higher than the other sidearms. Damage was fine, splash needed a nerf, but it was too easy to fit and the RoF was stupid for what was supposed to be a skillshot weapon. Everyone wanted to nerf the **** out of the mass driver pre-1.4 and now nobody complains about it anymore. This is why you never nerf something when core issues are a problem. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
mollerz Minja Scouts 1214	Posted - 2013.12.08 02:27:00 - [62] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Just buff the damage, nerf RoF and raise CPU costs to be significantly higher than the other sidearms. Damage was fine, splash needed a nerf, but it was too easy to fit and the RoF was stupid for what was supposed to be a skillshot weapon. Everyone wanted to nerf the **** out of the mass driver pre-1.4 and now nobody complains about it anymore. This is why you never nerf something when core issues are a problem. jaysus fukn mary. The minja is already insanely constrained for CPU. By CPU/PG design it is literally meant for a minja. Even the fitting optimization was changed to reflect lowering CPU per level vs PG like most weapons. How is an explosive weapon supposed to be a skill shot weapon? That cancels out any meaning of concept. #shittycoding
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 414	Posted - 2013.12.08 02:30:00 - [63] - Quote i like the way you think.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 414	Posted - 2013.12.08 02:31:00 - [64] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Does it genuinely not occur to you that it would be better to change the Gallogi/SCR? Because nerfing has gone so well for us? mollerz is trying something new!! BUFF BUFF BUFF EVERYTHING GET"S A BUFF AND EVERYONE GETS 1000x MORE HP.... WEEEE~~~~ good times
mollerz Minja Scouts 1215	Posted - 2013.12.08 02:32:00 - [65] - Quote Can't get worse! #shittycoding
Sick Metagamer Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2013.12.08 02:45:00 - [66] - Quote mollerz wrote: Sick Metagamer wrote: mollerz wrote: Tectonic Fusion wrote: I use to think the Scrambler Rifle was OP like you... Then I used the Assault Rifle. Maybe it is because I run minja- but an SCR is basically insta kill. I can usually take 3 hits from a duvolle. I know because if I can somehow get away after the second shot I am usually 0/0 aka struttin in my g strang on the battlefield yo! Proto SCR I think I hear the first round and death screen. **** anything past the first round is a waste of ammo. SCRs are great when you are one on one with someone.... But in a group melee crap fest, the AR will always reign supreme. When the TAR needed nerfing, EVERYONE was using them. The SCR is not nearly as common as ARs in kill feeds currently, so I am arguing it ain't overpowered, just EXCELLENT situationally one on one. False. I have a better time against SCRs in extreme CQC. If they are outside of spitting distance with auto aim it's insta-lights-out. There is no way to out strafe autoaim, and no way to dodge or outrun any of its rounds. ARs are only near instal kill with auto aim. I can mid range battle an AR user in my scout suit if they are free aim. If you are in a group with 4 people with SCRs VS four people with ARs, the ARs win. The SCR can only get 21 quick shots with the slowest assault suit, the AR can shine with ANY suit and has a lower CPU and PG requirement (Even lower if you use a Gallente Assault Suit). There is a reason MOST kills on the kill feed are ARs, they can do everything well. The SCR is a good weapon, but to say it is better than the AR is wrong.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1216	Posted - 2013.12.08 02:48:00 - [67] - Quote Nope. Not wrong. Put on a minja suit. Go fight against an AR and then a SCR. it's kind of a moot point- except you get to hear your tinklely shield glass snap a couple times before you die versus insta wasted by an SCR. #shittycoding
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 140	Posted - 2013.12.08 02:49:00 - [68] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Just buff the damage, nerf RoF and raise CPU costs to be significantly higher than the other sidearms. Damage was fine, splash needed a nerf, but it was too easy to fit and the RoF was stupid for what was supposed to be a skillshot weapon. Everyone wanted to nerf the **** out of the mass driver pre-1.4 and now nobody complains about it anymore. This is why you never nerf something when core issues are a problem. I don't really see the flaylock being a skillshot sidearm. That's the niche of the eventual Bolt Pistol. I hate hearing "you'll just have to sit on your SP and wait for that thing you want", but we can't start encroaching on another weapon's niche just because we don't have it yet. The FP is a short range Mass Driver. It is best suited for bursts of short range explosive splash damage. A three round Core Flaylock clip should be enough to kill one armor tanked Med dropsuit, considering you got fill splash damage and possibly one direct hit if they have some shield tank as well. Two kills per clip should be a possibility on the Minmatar Assault with 1-2 damage mods.
Cosgar ParagonX 8481	Posted - 2013.12.08 02:52:00 - [69] - Quote mollerz wrote: Cosgar wrote: Just buff the damage, nerf RoF and raise CPU costs to be significantly higher than the other sidearms. Damage was fine, splash needed a nerf, but it was too easy to fit and the RoF was stupid for what was supposed to be a skillshot weapon. Everyone wanted to nerf the **** out of the mass driver pre-1.4 and now nobody complains about it anymore. This is why you never nerf something when core issues are a problem. jaysus fukn mary. The minja is already insanely constrained for CPU. By CPU/PG design it is literally meant for a minja. Even the fitting optimization was changed to reflect lowering CPU per level vs PG like most weapons. How is an explosive weapon supposed to be a skill shot weapon? That cancels out any meaning of concept. I'm not saying make the CPU cost as high as a light weapon but enough to make people have to make a choice. I call it a skillshot weapon because it's not affected by aim assist. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2819	Posted - 2013.12.08 03:07:00 - [70] - Quote mollerz wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: mollerz wrote: because QQ fixed* How am I QQing? I am against an SCR nerf. I am for a Core Flaylock (yup proto level only) buff to prenerf levels. Sorry mate. That doesn't pass the QQ test. Unless you are saying you will QQ to have to face me with a IshFlay suit. We are out of dreadfort station I loose to no man 1 on 1. But : ''Because SCR'' sounds pretty QQ to me. If its not, i apologize. The FP does need a buff too...ITs pretty hard getting kills with it at ANY level... WELCOME! TO ARMORED MED514 : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1565076#post1565076

mollerz Minja Scouts 1217	Posted - 2013.12.08 03:11:00 - [71] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: mollerz wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: mollerz wrote: because QQ fixed* How am I QQing? I am against an SCR nerf. I am for a Core Flaylock (yup proto level only) buff to prenerf levels. Sorry mate. That doesn't pass the QQ test. Unless you are saying you will QQ to have to face me with a IshFlay suit. We are out of dreadfort station I loose to no man 1 on 1. But : ''Because SCR'' sounds pretty QQ to me. If its not, i apologize. The FP does need a buff too...ITs pretty hard getting kills with it at ANY level... I said because SCR to illustrate that buffing the Core FLaylock to pre nerf levels would be a fair counter to a logi SCR user. And I would only be using it to back up my ishNoks. maybe that is just me tho. I mean, Above all else I prefer to kill with knives. I die all the time inches from knife slays. gladly I just need something to help me kill when my knives get bugged out. I literally can't run or do damage sometimes for bugs. Do Ibelieve for a second anyone at CCP runs knives like me? NO. This **** just isn't going to get fixed. So back to prenerf core flaylocks for fuk sake. #shittycoding
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 404	Posted - 2013.12.08 03:35:00 - [72] - Quote mollerz wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: **** no. Actually, let's restore the TAR whilst we're at it. And the Calogi. I'd consider a prenerf core flaylock to be a fair fight in an advanced minja suit vs a Gal Logi Auto Aim slayer with a proto SCR. Am I wrong? Be careful, they can have one too....
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 140	Posted - 2013.12.08 03:39:00 - [73] - Quote mollerz wrote: I said because SCR to illustrate that buffing the Core FLaylock to pre nerf levels would be a fair counter to a logi SCR user. And I would only be using it to back up my ishNoks. maybe that is just me tho. I mean, Above all else I prefer to kill with knives. I die all the time inches from knife slays. gladly I just need something to help me kill when my knives get bugged out. I literally can't run or do damage sometimes for bugs. Do Ibelieve for a second anyone at CCP runs knives like me? NO. This ** just isn't going to get fixed. So back to prenerf core flaylocks for fuk sake. We don't need to make the Flaylock OP because the Minja and Nova Knives suck. You're starting to sound like CCP's balancing policies. Fix the problem directly, buff the NK and Scouts and give the Flaylock a damage buff. Problem solved, everyone is happy, none of them are OP. If something is OP/UP, make some indirect overall change that leaves the game in an even worse state. Case in point: - 10% damage buff (Result: AR 514) - AA buff (Result: Speed tanking useless) - Hit Detection improvements (Result: AR/ScR 514) - Armor Speed Penalty Reduction (Result: Dual Tanking/700 eHP Gscout) - Shield Extender Penalty (Result: Minmatar Scout/Assault and Cal Assault get unneeded nerf) EDIT: This too Pvt Numnutz wrote:** Be careful, they can have one too....
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2819	Posted - 2013.12.08 03:54:00 - [74] - Quote mollerz wrote: I said because SCR to illustrate that buffing the Core FLaylock to pre nerf levels would be a fair counter to a logi SCR user. . On other notes. a Light weapon is supposed to be OVERALL better than a SIDEARM. a SCR , ( considering the MASSIVE CPU-PG cost, specially compared to a Flaylock) Is supposed to be a better than the flaylock. They need to buff the FP? Yeah. Do we need the Dual wielding mercenaries using it like an OP Mass driver ? no. The splash range might come back as it was pre nerf. But the damage should stay. WELCOME! TO ARMORED MED514 : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1565076#post1565076
mollerz Minja Scouts 1218	Posted - 2013.12.08 03:58:00 - [75] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: mollerz wrote: I said because SCR to illustrate that buffing the Core FLaylock to pre nerf levels would be a fair counter to a logi SCR user. . On other notes. a Light weapon is supposed to be OVERALL better than a SIDEARM. a SCR , ( considering the MASSIVE CPU-PG cost, specially compared to a Flaylock) Is supposed to be a better than the flaylock. They need to buff the FP? Yeah. Do we need the Dual wielding mercenaries using it like an OP Mass driver ? no. The splash range might come back as it was pre nerf. But the damage should stay. sidearm vs light is based on range, not damage. see nova knife. a small missile should hurt. and it should have splash. And proto skilled with prof lv3 like I have should kill. SCR (as of 1.7) > than Core Flay Close Range SCR = Core Flay wut more of a crutch do you want dude? pfft. #shittycoding
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2819	Posted - 2013.12.08 04:05:00 - [76] - Quote mollerz wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: mollerz wrote: I said because SCR to illustrate that buffing the Core FLaylock to pre nerf levels would be a fair counter to a logi SCR user. . On other notes. a Light weapon is supposed to be OVERALL better than a SIDEARM. a SCR , ( considering the MASSIVE CPU-PG cost, specially compared to a Flaylock) Is supposed to be a better than the flaylock. They need to buff the FP? Yeah. Do we need the Dual wielding mercenaries using it like an OP Mass driver ? no. The splash range might come back as it was pre nerf. But the damage should stay. sidearm vs light is based on range, not damage. see nova knife. a small missile should hurt. and it should have splash. And proto skilled with prof lv3 like I have should kill. SCR (as of 1.7) > than Core Flay Close Range SCR = Core Flay . You are comparing 2 different weapons. The SCR is a TACTICAL Med-Long Ranged RIFLE. You are comparing it to a micro grenade launcher. You say they are all about range? Ok Compare the FP with the MD. By your logic, the FP need LESS range than a Mass driver. IMO, ok. Give it back its previous massive Damage and maybe a 0.25 splash damage range then... EDIT NOTE: Ive said the SCR needs a CQ nerf. + Hipfire Nerf.+ Heat on follow up shots after a charged one...etc...People just seem to ignore me because i talk balance, DUST514 people dont understand balance it seems... WELCOME! TO ARMORED MED514 : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1565076#post1565076
Ruthless Lee The Eliminators 130	Posted - 2013.12.08 05:16:00 - [77] - Quote Rogue Saint wrote: Ruthless Lee wrote: This forum needs a "dislike" button. Learn to use the FP and quit being a biatch. Haha, sure ... nice try. I do use the FP. The fact that you use it too doesn't make you any less wrong on ... all of this. But have fun, man ... you're on a roll
Demon Buddah NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 71	Posted - 2013.12.08 05:20:00 - [78] - Quote mollerz wrote: Tectonic Fusion wrote: I use to think the Scrambler Rifle was OP like you... Then I used the Assault Rifle. Maybe it is because I run minja- but an SCR is basically insta kill. I can usually take 3 hits from a duvolle. I know because if I can somehow get away after the second shot I am usually 0/0 aka struttin in my g strang on the battlefield yo! Proto SCR I think I hear the first round and death screen. **** anything past the first round is a waste of ammo. I used to think it was because my Minja also. Then I pulled my 500+ armor Gallente assault and still got torn to shreds in seconds. But yes, seeing as how I don't see the AR or the SCR getting a fix anytime soon I would also like my flaylock to be put back.
Tectonic Fusion 685	Posted - 2013.12.08 05:35:00 - [79] - Quote Demon Buddah wrote: Tectonic Fusion wrote: I use to think the Scrambler Rifle was OP like you... Then I used the Assault Rifle. still got torn to shreds in SECONDS That's better than getting killed in .7 seconds with an AR... Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Rogue Saint Science For Death 587	Posted - 2013.12.08 08:16:00 - [80] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Saint, all of your posts seem to be supported and thought out, but they always seem to be filled with either a biased agenda or a severe lack of necessary foresight of actual implementation. Thank you? As for biased agenda etc. I just assume people are aware of the implications of such changes so I don't need to spell it out or go into a long monologue. Thats CCP's job, not my lack of foresight. Shutter Fly wrote: You think sidearms should be fully inferior to light weaponry, that would be fine if it had been that way for the past six months. Currently, sidearms take exactly the same SP investment as any light weapon, so they should provide an equitable return. If sidearms were all to be nerfed to FP levels, then there would need to be a huge overhaul to many aspects of the game. Of course such changes have a huge impact to many aspects of the game, again, just cuz I don't spell it out doesn't mean I'm blind to the consequences. Shutter Fly wrote: SP costs would have to be reduced for sidarms to reflect the changes. The Minmatar Assault has already been indirectly nerfed repeatedly with each update, a nerf to sidearms would require a complete change of its racial bonus if the suit would ever hope to be remotely competitive (not that I think I should stay the same anyway). Fitting costs would also need to be further reduced, as they currently aren't significantly less in conjunction to their current shortcomings. Agreed, and SP should be returned to the player too. Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: All I have to say is I'm glad you are not in charge of balancing Rogue or apparently I would have wasted about 5 million+ SP on weapons in my niche and another 5+ million on suits that have bonuses to side arms. Along with your idea that sidearms should not kill makes pretty much every piece of minmatar gear worthless along with the flaylock. Nothing is safe in a CCP game, if they realise, like me, that side arms should be scaled back to be what they should be, i.e. a side arm; then your invested SP will be returned. Sure the Min Assault bonus is a tricky one, its very useful and would cause rebalancing issues. I never said side arms should not kill, I just have a different ethos on how they should be used. Back on topic. I was sad when they nerfed the FP, I had a great run with it, but my CEO warned us all that it would be nerfed before even CCP and forum QQ caught on. Going back to the FP and giving it time I have found its perfect now for my suit fit (Proto shotty + FP). I do sympathise with NK users, I can see why it would need a buff if your primary is NK, but NK+FP combo is such a niche that it doesn't warrant a buff. Also, it scares the crap out of me if everyone started using the FP again. GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦ - Bringing the dakka [The whiny Scout]

Scottish Eye Robbing The Hood Public Disorder. 0	Posted - 2013.12.12 02:22:00 - [81] - Quote I still use the flaylock I really miss the punch it delivers to dropships before the nerf which could destabilize the pilot and crash them. Against LAVs they used to be the perfect deterrent from trying to continuously run you over. Now it barely makes a dent in both. An added bonus to not skilling in to the flaylock is for lagging players. When you fire your weapon your bullet leaves the chamber 1.2 - 1.4 seconds after you press fire just adding to the frustration as your bullet deviates meters from its intended target. I vote for only its rate of fire to be increased a bit to give it that 1 2 3 punch on vehicles and weaken close quarters dropsuits. Not that my opinion will change anything, but I hope each of yours will improve the flaylock.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1291	Posted - 2013.12.12 03:23:00 - [82] - Quote It's a fricken missile. It should do the same damage as a grenade. No arms manufacturer would make something like this unless it was RPG like. Why would they make a proto weapon that was ineffective in the hands of a highly skilled users? THEY WOULDN'T because no one would buy them. If it scares you, then don't get close to prey that's using it. It only holds 3 rounds. The range is super short. thus a sidearm. #shittycoding
DeadlyAztec11 2730	Posted - 2013.12.12 03:28:00 - [83] - Quote mollerz wrote: It's a fricken missile. It should do the same damage as a grenade. No arms manufacturer would make something like this unless it was RPG like. Why would they make a proto weapon that was ineffective in the hands of a highly skilled users? THEY WOULDN'T because no one would buy them. If it scares you, then don't get close to prey that's using it. It only holds 3 rounds. The range is super short. thus a sidearm. Grenade damage is a bit much. Though the Flaylock should be a lot more competitive. I think the ROF should be increased and leave the damage the same. Also increase the missile speed of the Breach Variant. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1291	Posted - 2013.12.12 03:30:00 - [84] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: mollerz wrote: It's a fricken missile. It should do the same damage as a grenade. No arms manufacturer would make something like this unless it was RPG like. Why would they make a proto weapon that was ineffective in the hands of a highly skilled users? THEY WOULDN'T because no one would buy them. If it scares you, then don't get close to prey that's using it. It only holds 3 rounds. The range is super short. thus a sidearm. Grenade damage is a bit much. Though the Flaylock should be a lot more competitive. I think the ROF should be increased and leave the damage the same. Also increase the missile speed of the Breach Variant. The problem is the damage is b000lshit. #shittycoding
DeadlyAztec11 2730	Posted - 2013.12.12 03:42:00 - [85] - Quote mollerz wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: mollerz wrote: It's a fricken missile. It should do the same damage as a grenade. No arms manufacturer would make something like this unless it was RPG like. Why would they make a proto weapon that was ineffective in the hands of a highly skilled users? THEY WOULDN'T because no one would buy them. If it scares you, then don't get close to prey that's using it. It only holds 3 rounds. The range is super short. thus a sidearm. Grenade damage is a bit much. Though the Flaylock should be a lot more competitive. I think the ROF should be increased and leave the damage the same. Also increase the missile speed of the Breach Variant. The problem is the damage is b000lshit. It is hard to balance out the damage without the higher tiers one shotting low tier suits. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1293	Posted - 2013.12.12 03:50:00 - [86] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: mollerz wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: mollerz wrote: It's a fricken missile. It should do the same damage as a grenade. No arms manufacturer would make something like this unless it was RPG like. Why would they make a proto weapon that was ineffective in the hands of a highly skilled users? THEY WOULDN'T because no one would buy them. If it scares you, then don't get close to prey that's using it. It only holds 3 rounds. The range is super short. thus a sidearm. Grenade damage is a bit much. Though the Flaylock should be a lot more competitive. I think the ROF should be increased and leave the damage the same. Also increase the missile speed of the Breach Variant. The problem is the damage is b000lshit. It is hard to balance out the damage without the higher tiers one shotting low tier suits. You can do that with all kinds of weapons. I fail to see that as any reason to nerf one particular weapon over the other. Low tier suits should die to proto weapons. #shittycoding


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