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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
650
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Posted - 2013.12.12 16:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:You, sir, have no idea what you're talking about. Is this a troll post or are you really that ignorant?
Facts:
Lvl 5 Scouts beat advanced scanners inherently, and this scanner is the most widely used in pubs.
To beat 28 dB scanners, the scout must have Lvl 2 profile dampening, and one basic or militia dampener. That's roughly 80k SP.
No one except a paperthin Gal Scout can beat the 15dB scanner, but the attributes of this scanner make it one of the least often used. You will encounter this scanner in maybe 1% of pub matches.
I'm not sure about null cannons, but the scan precision of supply depots and other installations is somewhere higher than 45db but lower than 50dB. It might be 50dB exactly.
There are no "Some Margin of Error" messages anymore, nor are there any quick light blips if someone is using dampeners. I have tested this on Oceania using two PS3s. Have you? I got "some margin of error" yesterday |
Terra Thesis
HDYLTA Defiant Legacy
416
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Posted - 2013.12.12 16:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
i can confirm that sometimes the scanner won't pick up a red and won't give an error. I've been trying to figure out the pattern but it's not clear to me. i believe it had something to do with using a scout suit vs dampener mods.
HDYLTA - Freedom Delivered
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
537
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Posted - 2013.12.12 16:58:00 -
[33] - Quote
Scout is a tough class to play. Everyone agrees on this.
But in terms of dampening, scouts are whining too much without realizing how EASY you have it.
Dampening is one aspect of your suit. For a medium suit to have the same dampening level as you (say under 28dB), it needs two slots for complex profile dampeners, or three slots for basic/militia dampeners.
What do Lvl 5 scouts need to achieve the same? Lvl 2 in dampening and one slot for a basic or militia dampener.
So you can't avoid the 15dB proto scanner? Neither can anyone else. By this sheer fact it SHOULD be the most popular scanner in the game. But it isn't. Why? Because I'd rather have a scanner that can give me intel on 95% of enemy players 100% of the match, rather than a scanner that gives intel on 100% of players for only 30% of the match.
Is stealth the defining characteristic of the scout? Maybe, maybe not. You don't die instantly after you get scanned, do you?
If stealth was the only thing going for you, then why did people play the class prior to 1.4, when shared team/squad vision meant scouts were visible to everyone so long as one person had line of sight on them? Maybe it's because their speed and quick regen allowed skill scouts to rack up tons of kills using scout shotty, despite the fact that people saw them on their radar?
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Ivy Zalinto
Bobbit's Hangmen
160
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Posted - 2013.12.12 17:25:00 -
[34] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Scout is a tough class to play. Everyone agrees on this.
But in terms of dampening, scouts are whining too much without realizing how EASY you have it.
Dampening is one aspect of your suit. For a medium suit to have the same dampening level as you (say under 28dB), it needs two slots for complex profile dampeners, or three slots for basic/militia dampeners.
What do Lvl 5 scouts need to achieve the same? Lvl 2 in dampening and one slot for a basic or militia dampener.
So you can't avoid the 15dB proto scanner? Neither can anyone else. By this sheer fact it SHOULD be the most popular scanner in the game. But it isn't. Why? Because I'd rather have a scanner that can give me intel on 95% of enemy players 100% of the match, rather than a scanner that gives intel on 100% of players for only 30% of the match.
Is stealth the defining characteristic of the scout? Maybe, maybe not. You don't die instantly after you get scanned, do you?
If stealth was the only thing going for you, then why did people play the class prior to 1.4, when shared team/squad vision meant scouts were visible to everyone so long as one person had line of sight on them? Maybe it's because their speed and quick regen allowed skill scouts to rack up tons of kills using scout shotty, despite the fact that people saw them on their radar?
Its not the fact of being scanned by something that annoys us scouts, its the sheer amount of sp we put into staying off the radar. Its what...3 to 4 times the amount of a scanners sp investment?
To answer your probably rhetorical question, when a scout gets scanned it is generally a death sentence unless you have teammates around you or can bug out into the redline or behind friendly forces. My survibility rate drops drastically when i get pinged by a prototype scanner. And the only thing that regens on my suit are my shields. I have 149 armor on my primary suit and the armor doesnt tend to come back unless there happens to be a logibro around that feels benevolent. Still, I make due. I personally think they should remove the one scanner OR raise the scan detection profile by like 10 for all scanners.
Dedicated scout.
New player tutor; scout instructor
Scrambler Pistol dedication
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1202
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Posted - 2013.12.12 17:34:00 -
[35] - Quote
Scanners are a problem, Yes! Proto Scout should always beat a Proto Scanner, No!
How Scanners should be fixed! 1) Scanners need to be equipped in order to obtain tag data 2) Remove Scan Charge Time and Scan Time 3) Replace with Scan Interval 4) Targets intel is fixed and only updates with each scan pulse 5) Scouts recieve a buff where they can equip there sidearm and equipment at the same time!
Sorted!
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2199
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Posted - 2013.12.12 17:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
Kuroiokami Tsukinaku wrote:I would lean the other way Reav. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the SP investment to lower your sig seems greater than the investment to scan that low. And while the scanner may be 'exposed', unless they are in direct combat, the risk is low. The scout cannot identify the scanner to eliminate the threat. I think using active scanners should also increase your sig. In real life, active radar (and sonar) gives you a better picture, but also let's your opponent know where the scanner is. Be nice if scouts knew at least that much.
A totally valid argument. I've posted some suggestions for balancing active scanners and scouts in the feedback section. Scanners should be affected by scanning skills and the effectiveness for non-scouts dropped so that it takes a scout to find a scout with comparable skills.
Plus, add in some wibbly wobbly variation to scan result based on the difference between sensitivity and profile.
// Adapt or Die // Matari Logistics / Scout / Dropship Crash Tester // @ReesNoturana
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ALPHA DECRIPTER
Dragon-Empire
627
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Posted - 2013.12.12 17:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Scout is a tough class to play. Everyone agrees on this.
But in terms of dampening, scouts are whining too much without realizing how EASY you have it.
Dampening is one aspect of your suit. For a medium suit to have the same dampening level as you (say under 28dB), it needs two slots for complex profile dampeners, or three slots for basic/militia dampeners.
What do Lvl 5 scouts need to achieve the same? Lvl 2 in dampening and one slot for a basic or militia dampener.
So you can't avoid the 15dB proto scanner? Neither can anyone else. By this sheer fact it SHOULD be the most popular scanner in the game. But it isn't. Why? Because I'd rather have a scanner that can give me intel on 95% of enemy players 100% of the match, rather than a scanner that gives intel on 100% of players for only 30% of the match.
Is stealth the defining characteristic of the scout? Maybe, maybe not. You don't die instantly after you get scanned, do you?
If stealth was the only thing going for you, then why did people play the class prior to 1.4, when shared team/squad vision meant scouts were visible to everyone so long as one person had line of sight on them? Maybe it's because their speed and quick regen allowed skill scouts to rack up tons of kills using scout shotty, despite the fact that people saw them on their radar?
Pre 1.4 meant stealth was pointless? Yes. Shottie scouts are speed tanked and therefore do not rely on stealth nearly as much. The complaint is scout have against scanners is the Tank vs. AV argument all over again. You have to burn through so much SP to be stealthy but only a handful is needed to counter you. I seen one player suggest increasing active scanner precision and linking them to your precision skill. The skill would now increase the value of both your passive and active scans.
@Yagihige: My idea was to severely reduce turning speed. This way you can you can still move around but a twirl would be impossible.
Anyway, that's my 2ISK.
Scout Tactician
"You have been Scanned"
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4151
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Posted - 2013.12.12 18:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
One BIG point to consider when people keep bringing up how Scouts are "only" giving up one slot and a little bit of PG/CPU.
We still have some of the worst slot layouts and fitting capacity of any Dropsuits in the game, losing those things costs us a LOT more than it does other suits. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
540
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Posted - 2013.12.12 18:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:One BIG point to consider when people keep bringing up how Scouts are "only" giving up one slot and a little bit of PG/CPU.
We still have some of the worst slot layouts and fitting capacity of any Dropsuits in the game, losing those things costs us a LOT more than it does other suits.
So scouts complain about getting scanned being a death sentence, but don't think 15 CPU and one slot is worth it to not get scanned?
Does not compute...
Particularly when medium suits need to spend 932k SP and one slot/33 CPU to get an advantage you have inherently (to dodge 36dB advanced scans) or two slots/66 CPU compared to your 74k SP and one slot/15 CPU (to dodge 28dB scans).
The "SP suit investment" argument is pretty moot, since I still need 2.4 mil to get my proto suit, just like you.
Despite all that, I would support the removal of the 15dB Focused Scanner. Why? Because it's a useless scanner designed only to troll scouts. And it would stop scout QQ. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4153
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 19:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:So scouts complain about getting scanned being a death sentence, but don't think 15 CPU and one slot is worth it to not get scanned? No, that isn't even remotely close to what I was saying.
I was pointing out that the "minor" investment of "only" one slot and a bit of CPU is actually a MAJOR investment for a Scout because of the more limited fitting capabilities of the suits. |
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