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Seeth Mensch
highland marines
67
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Posted - 2013.12.05 18:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Not a whiner question, seriously. I have been skilling into things that I thought benefited scouts, and running those Black eagles really showed me some of the fun. I have a scout suit BPO, and of course I'm made of tissue, but I manage to occasionally nail some of the redberries.
What am I missing that frustrates all the routine scout players?
Hi! Gosh, I've missed you...with every bullet, plasma shot, rail gun, and missile.
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knight of 6
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
773
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Posted - 2013.12.05 18:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
the scout does nothing "best" all of it's jobs are done better by other suits.
"God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon
Ko6, scout, tanker.
CLOSED BETA VET
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
1851
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Posted - 2013.12.05 19:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
They are broken when they try to be slayers. |
R F Gyro
Clones 4u
778
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Posted - 2013.12.05 19:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
I use scout suits tactically. My "uplink runner" suit is fast and stealthy and is good at getting uplinks down behind enemy lines. Sometimes I'll get an opportunity kill with it, but that's not really the point.
Of course, that doesn't make me a scout, just someone who occasionally uses a scout suit.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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Ghost Kaisar
THIRD EARTH INCORPORATED
966
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Posted - 2013.12.05 19:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:They are broken when they try to be slayers.
Now here is the problem.
What else can we do?
Recon? Yeah, scanners are easier to fit on a logi suit.
Infiltrate? Did you know that installations have PERFECT scans? In a 20-30m radius around it? We can't even sneak up on objectives.
Now about uplink running. Yes it works. But why do it in a scout suit? Just run logi, use a single low slot for complex damp, run a stamina and now you have all you need. Then use your insane CPU/PG and run an ungodly amount of equipment and eHP. Does our job better.
In short, we have no way of getting WP without trying to be slayers.
And for most of the roles you want scouts to use, you only have to put in the bare minimum to use it. Going full scout is nothing but a gigantic SP dump and will cause you nothing but pain if you try to main the suit.
"All war is deception." "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious" -Sun Tzu
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trraacx
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
36
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Posted - 2013.12.05 19:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nothing to add other than that something I've tried the last couple of days in matches that are hopeless.
Using a BPO scout with really nothing but RE's I'll run into some impenetrable area of reds flinging REs.
If I manage to get out alive, set them off. It is kind of like a mini orbital. I'm not good at it yet but it is
a fun thing to turn to when nothing else is working. |
knight of 6
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
775
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Posted - 2013.12.05 19:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:I use scout suits tactically. My "uplink runner" suit is fast and stealthy and is good at getting uplinks down behind enemy lines. Sometimes I'll get an opportunity kill with it, but that's not really the point.
Of course, that doesn't make me a scout, just someone who occasionally uses a scout suit.
while I recognize the "scout isn't a slayer" argument, I have 4 million of 11 into my suit. it's my main I don't have another suit. while it isn't my job sometimes being a slayer is unavoidable. we do run into people, we aren't invisible sometimes they see us. and at that point we need to have a suit that works in 1v1 and 2v1 combat.
also if I sneaky bastard my way up behind someone hacking and shoot them in the back THEY SHOULD DIE not turn around and murder me. that's not cool man.
"God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon
Ko6, scout, tanker.
CLOSED BETA VET
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
778
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Posted - 2013.12.05 19:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Now about uplink running. Yes it works. But why do it in a scout suit? Just run logi, use a single low slot for complex damp, run a stamina and now you have all you need. Then use your insane CPU/PG and run an ungodly amount of equipment and eHP. Does our job better.
I tried that.
I'm much more likely to get the uplink down successfully with the scout suit.
EHP doesn't help really, because if I'm spotted before I can drop the uplink and clear the area then its all wasted anyway. Well, I suppose it could help if I get into trouble on the way back. Maybe I just need to improve my logi suit design, but I'd need dampeners and stamina mods and speed mods.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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mollerz
Minja Scouts
1170
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Posted - 2013.12.05 19:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:They are broken when they try to be slayers.
If you are talking about Gallente, I agree. They are more recon based.
Minmatar scouts are CQC assassins. Their racial skills are dampening and nova knives. So in effect, that class of scout is exactly that, a slayer.
I do pretty good running a scout assault- knives and AR. I use a flux carpet bomb to announce my arrival and the AR to force my way in close and switch to my knives to finish them off. it's a fun combo when it works. Lots of times the knives aren't firing when I swing tho. I hear the sound but there is no swing. Pretty annoying when a proto logi gets off because I have to battle bugs while in their face.
Not to mention, the run animation and knife animation cancel each other out making for a very jarring and unnatural battle with my DS3 to maintain a sprint.
#shittycoding
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
778
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Posted - 2013.12.05 19:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
knight of 6 wrote:while I recognize the "scout isn't a slayer" argument, I have 4 million of 11 into my suit. it's my main I don't have another suit. while it isn't my job sometimes being a slayer is unavoidable. we do run into people, we aren't invisible sometimes they see us. and at that point we need to have a suit that works in 1v1 and 2v1 combat.
also if I sneaky bastard my way up behind someone hacking and shoot them in the back THEY SHOULD DIE not turn around and murder me. that's not cool man.
I personally think a scout should expect to die if the other guy has a chance to shoot back, but I can see how that would be difficult to accept once you've got millions of SP sunk into it.
As for shooting them in the back, that's your problem. Shoot them in the head 
Anyway, rather than more EHP or more DPS I'd be more in favour of more "sneaky tricks" for scouts. Anti-personnel mines, for example: you drop one before you go round a corner, kill one bad guy and run; his three squad mates chase you round the corner and BOOM!
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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Assert Dominance
0bamacare
534
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Posted - 2013.12.05 19:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
i can answer you in 2 pages but i'll keep it short and sweet.
our speed doesnt benefit us when 80% maps are pure open.
our scanning barely picks up a heavy 5m away.
a medium suit can do EVERYTHING we can, better... (except profile damp)
our health doesnt allow us to kill well fit med frames without getting straight up turned on
our base stamina, sprint, and strafe for what we are is laughable at best
we dont have any kind of niche, just poor souls playing extreme mode.
why be scout when you can be logi and do whatever you want... even gal assault can make an excellent scout.
LOGIC! NO! IT BURRRRNNNSSS!!!!!!
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pseudosnipre
374
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Posted - 2013.12.05 19:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:knight of 6 wrote:while I recognize the "scout isn't a slayer" argument, I have 4 million of 11 into my suit. it's my main I don't have another suit. while it isn't my job sometimes being a slayer is unavoidable. we do run into people, we aren't invisible sometimes they see us. and at that point we need to have a suit that works in 1v1 and 2v1 combat.
also if I sneaky bastard my way up behind someone hacking and shoot them in the back THEY SHOULD DIE not turn around and murder me. that's not cool man. I personally think a scout should expect to die if the other guy has a chance to shoot back, but I can see how that would be difficult to accept once you've got millions of SP sunk into it. As for shooting them in the back, that's your problem. Shoot them in the head Anyway, rather than more EHP or more DPS I'd be more in favour of more "sneaky tricks" for scouts. Anti-personnel mines, for example: you drop one before you go round a corner, kill one bad guy and run; his three squad mates chase you round the corner and BOOM!
Fairly certain that SG reticle must be red-lit, dead-center on opponents "head" to register a hs...no small feat when my framerate is in the tweens, or worse, in CQC.
Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
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knight of 6
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
778
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Posted - 2013.12.05 19:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:knight of 6 wrote:while I recognize the "scout isn't a slayer" argument, I have 4 million of 11 into my suit. it's my main I don't have another suit. while it isn't my job sometimes being a slayer is unavoidable. we do run into people, we aren't invisible sometimes they see us. and at that point we need to have a suit that works in 1v1 and 2v1 combat.
also if I sneaky bastard my way up behind someone hacking and shoot them in the back THEY SHOULD DIE not turn around and murder me. that's not cool man. I personally think a scout should expect to die if the other guy has a chance to shoot back, but I can see how that would be difficult to accept once you've got millions of SP sunk into it. As for shooting them in the back, that's your problem. Shoot them in the head Anyway, rather than more EHP or more DPS I'd be more in favour of more "sneaky tricks" for scouts. Anti-personnel mines, for example: you drop one before you go round a corner, kill one bad guy and run; his three squad mates chase you round the corner and BOOM!
then I need a gun that doesn't let them shoot back, the shotguns rof is to slow and can't ohko well tanked suits even at proto tier.
"God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon
Ko6, scout, tanker.
CLOSED BETA VET
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
346
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Posted - 2013.12.05 20:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
knight of 6 wrote:R F Gyro wrote:knight of 6 wrote:while I recognize the "scout isn't a slayer" argument, I have 4 million of 11 into my suit. it's my main I don't have another suit. while it isn't my job sometimes being a slayer is unavoidable. we do run into people, we aren't invisible sometimes they see us. and at that point we need to have a suit that works in 1v1 and 2v1 combat.
also if I sneaky bastard my way up behind someone hacking and shoot them in the back THEY SHOULD DIE not turn around and murder me. that's not cool man. I personally think a scout should expect to die if the other guy has a chance to shoot back, but I can see how that would be difficult to accept once you've got millions of SP sunk into it. As for shooting them in the back, that's your problem. Shoot them in the head Anyway, rather than more EHP or more DPS I'd be more in favour of more "sneaky tricks" for scouts. Anti-personnel mines, for example: you drop one before you go round a corner, kill one bad guy and run; his three squad mates chase you round the corner and BOOM! then I need a gun that doesn't let them shoot back, the shotguns rof is to slow and can't ohko well tanked suits even at proto tier.
Plasma Cannon...just don't miss. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
8383
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 20:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ask 10 different people what the scout's role is and you'll most likely get 10 different answers.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
89
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Posted - 2013.12.05 20:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Seeth Mensch wrote:Not a whiner question, seriously. I have been skilling into things that I thought benefited scouts, and running those Black eagles really showed me some of the fun. I have a scout suit BPO, and of course I'm made of tissue, but I manage to occasionally nail some of the redberries.
What am I missing that frustrates all the routine scout players?
The same thing that caused Heavys to become broken, and the same thing that causes LOGIs to be god mode, TTK was changed for a very select few weapons.
With the addition of aim assist and hit detection fixes, the utter supremecy of the hit-scan weapon occurred.
OP Hit-scan weapons:
SMG
AR
ScR
(ScP and TAC AR to a lesser extent)
It is these weapons that have reduced TTK to fractions of what it used to be and this has effected heavys and scouts alike.
Scouts:
Because of the surefire damage an AR and SCR provide, a scout does not have the eHP to move from cover to cover in most maps. With Aim Assist, SMGs and ScPs tear scouts apart in cqc with little skill required from the operator.
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
143
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Posted - 2013.12.05 21:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Message from Godin:
1: We have little EWAR, and the EWAR we have (active Scanners) can be done better on any Logi or Assault.
2: Assaults speed is very comparable to Scouts, and since they can Fit Kincats easier, they could get as fast, or higher speeds than a Scouts, doing the same or similar Jobs as a Scout, but with more eHP, resulting in a higher success rate
3: The weapons considered Scout weapons tend to sit you far back, or really close, so either you would die before reaching your target, or unless you have the perfect spot, you won't see many targets at all.
4: Like I stated in #1, kincats, as well as many other modules that are considered to be Scout things has harsh CPU/PG requirements, yet the Scout has the lowest CPU/PG in the game.
There's more, but I think you get the point -_-
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
11062
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Posted - 2013.12.05 21:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lack of HP
Lack of Sensors (pff 16 meters? should be like 30+)
Lack of Stealth (half it)
Lack of utility (give em 2 equipment slots)
Lack of Strafe (remove the strafe cap)
Scanners should be tied into the suits own DB resolution numbers
TTK of medium ranged weapons is too powerful.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Infantry Armoring =// Unlocked
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Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES
728
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Posted - 2013.12.05 21:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Seeth Mensch wrote:Not a whiner question, seriously. I have been skilling into things that I thought benefited scouts, and running those Black eagles really showed me some of the fun. I have a scout suit BPO, and of course I'm made of tissue, but I manage to occasionally nail some of the redberries.
What am I missing that frustrates all the routine scout players?
nothing. They just like to cry. Scouts aren't for the front line. Some players are amazing and make it work but that's definitely the exception and not the rule |
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
158
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Posted - 2013.12.05 21:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:Plasma Cannon...just don't miss.
OMG! PC scouts running around blasting everyone! Don't know why I didn't think of this one myself! So OP.
So much fun to be had!
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8387
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Posted - 2013.12.05 21:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Lack of HP
Lack of Sensors (pff 16 meters? should be like 30+)
Lack of Stealth (half it)
Lack of utility (give em 2 equipment slots)
Lack of Strafe (remove the strafe cap)
Scanners should be tied into the suits own DB resolution numbers
TTK of medium ranged weapons is too powerful.
Hit the nail on the head. Only thing I would add is a defining role that makes it special over other classes like cloaking, target painting and tackling. Scouts are like frigates, but without actual usefulness.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
158
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Posted - 2013.12.05 21:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:Message from Godin:
4: Like I stated in #1, kincats, as well as many other modules that are considered to be Scout things has harsh CPU/PG requirements, yet the Scout has the lowest CPU/PG in the game.
Actually I have to agree with this one! Actually I thik that may be the solution to make scouts more viable!
BIOTICS!!!!
All scout suits should receive a fitting bonus for using ANY of the BIOTICS!
Wanna run fast, fit a biotic. Wanna run longer or recuperate faster, fit a biotic. Wanna hit harder, fit a biotic.
That's what is needed.
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Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2302
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Posted - 2013.12.05 21:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Darken-Sol wrote:
nothing. They just like to cry. Scouts aren't for the front line. Some players are amazing and make it work but that's definitely the exception and not the rule
I haven't played in a while so I don't know how well the range buff worked out but even then, your argument is so....counter-fun. Ya see, people have long told scouts to "recon". But we have argued that it's not worth the time of a scout: Active scanners took our jobs "The Scout in a Pocket". There's nothing to do behind the front except logistic **** and where we belong is behind the bad guys. So we go there but guess what the tools don't match the job. Passive scan is kind of sub-par for what we do and LOS detection is absolute bullshit, our profile can't defeat an accidental glance. We never ask for HP buff and we have put up good arguments. The Minmatar Medium Frame (which people say is crap for some reason) has over 100 more HP than a gallente scout but can run closer to a Galscouts speed than a Galscout can run a Minscout.
But it's fun |
Evan Gotabor
Prima Gallicus
4
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Posted - 2013.12.05 21:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
You just have to find the good weapon and not to be too stupid when you attack and the scout is not that bad. It could be better, but it can do a great job.
I run a light BASIC proto gallente suit with 2 assault pistol and I don't even have 6 million SP on the scout character.
It work very well, at maximal I have done things like 16/3/1.
And believe me, it is just funny to see logi-assault and heavy-assault who are thinking themselves as gods die like they deserve. |
Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
666
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Posted - 2013.12.05 21:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
More needs to be done with signature profiles. I like the idea of the suit modifying the active scanner's resolution. More CPU/PG makes sense. Im not sure about 2 equipment slots though; turning the scout into a Logi-nano seems like the wrong direction/role. CCP needs to be careful about over buffing the scout right now to fix its problems because it could easily become way too OP when cloaks arrive. They need to get the missing scout suits and cloaks finished ASAP so they can re-balance scouts. Also TTK desperately needs to be fixed.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
895
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Posted - 2013.12.05 21:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:They are broken when they try to be slayers. Now here is the problem. What else can we do? Recon? Yeah, scanners are easier to fit on a logi suit. Infiltrate? Did you know that installations have PERFECT scans? In a 20-30m radius around it? We can't even sneak up on objectives. Now about uplink running. Yes it works. But why do it in a scout suit? Just run logi, use a single low slot for complex damp, run a stamina and now you have all you need. Then use your insane CPU/PG and run an ungodly amount of equipment and eHP. Does our job better. In short, we have no way of getting WP without trying to be slayers. And for most of the roles you want scouts to use, you only have to put in the bare minimum to use it. Going full scout is nothing but a gigantic SP dump and will cause you nothing but pain if you try to main the suit.
Totally agreeing with these points.
Only benefits, and small ones, the scouts have are
- Slightly better strafe rate (not enough with this TTK and AA Aimbot around)
- Jump ability. This is actually the scouts ONLY real advantage to med suits, better mountaingoating.
Feeling the scanner is too simple and off balance?
The fix:
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Morathi III
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
64
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Posted - 2013.12.05 21:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Lack of HP
Lack of Sensors (pff 16 meters? should be like 30+)
Lack of Stealth (half it)
Lack of utility (give em 2 equipment slots)
Lack of Strafe (remove the strafe cap)
Scanners should be tied into the suits own DB resolution numbers
TTK of medium ranged weapons is too powerful.
Pretty much, like your scanner idea its very interesting |
DEZKA DIABLO
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
101
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Posted - 2013.12.05 21:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Lack of HP
Lack of Sensors (pff 16 meters? should be like 30+)
Lack of Stealth (half it)
Lack of utility (give em 2 equipment slots)
Lack of Strafe (remove the strafe cap)
Scanners should be tied into the suits own DB resolution numbers
TTK of medium ranged weapons is too powerful.
Finally someone recognizes.
It's a multitude of things really. For instance:
Shotguns need to shoot faster and do more damage, if a AR can spin an land 4 bullets your dead, so if I sneak up an point blank you why do I need 3 shots? You just back up an I'm out of range? Your at the top of the stairs am I can't kill you from the bottom?
I'm a futuristic scout, yet I can't beat or hide from your constantly used scanner?
My two low slots an 87 armor need one slot for pd to beat 28 db but never the 15, why can't I hide?
My 4 low slot scout needs all lows to beat 15 db , why?
16 m scan for a professional scout mercenary in the future?
Two low slots for the supposed invisible knife assassin that can't hide from proto scanners, be quick or have endurance or armor rep, why?
If I want to be fast in a minscout I need a compact hive in my equipment, why?
Now my equipment slot is wasted, no scanner, no uplink, no remotes, no longer a scout just a pathetic suit, why this catch 22?
Logistics have hack speed an armor regen, why is the weakest suit expected to hack an place links in enemy lines, when it can't hack fast, hack mods are low slots, equipment is wasted on self repair hives, an if it does get away hurt, it's scanned an killed.
So really why can t ccp figure this out, admit its broke an fix it?
7 month wait for a 6 m buff, really? |
Niuvo
NECROM0NGERS
Covert Intervention
845
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 21:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
I get mad at ppl that don't understand our plight. we are incredibly underpowered. We're asking for balance. a niche for scouts to be good at. to be needed in pc. We want new scouts to play and stay and not go to the med masses. They should read what the scout can do and love it. Right now we are trying way too hard and the suits are so unbalanced. we need cloak. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
1859
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 22:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Lack of HP
Lack of Sensors (pff 16 meters? should be like 30+)
Lack of Stealth (half it)
Lack of utility (give em 2 equipment slots)
Lack of Strafe (remove the strafe cap)
Scanners should be tied into the suits own DB resolution numbers
TTK of medium ranged weapons is too powerful.
Yep, I've said similar things, namely, give them 2 equipment slots, a 10% fitting bonus per level to active scanners, and like 15% more PG/CPU. |
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