nerf aim assist.

make scouts suits cheaper. (or give them more cpu/pg)

make scouts spawn quicker. (they're less mass after all)

let scouts spawn anywhere, or within a ~50-100m radius of an uplink. (but with longer spawn timer as a result)

db needs to be lowered to 30

strafe speed should be 6

should be able to jump 60% higher than med frames

^ I would be satisfied with this.

I got a ideaGǪ maybeGǪ just maybeGǪThey snipe

Sniping is still an option. This really doesn't effect that. If anything it just provides more countermeasures for those that do choose to snipe, while giving a adequate tool-bag of options for those who want to find other ways to use the suit without being forced into a singular play-style.

People who play scout want all options that are already filled by other classes. If scouts want to be frontline soldiers then they are going to have to deal with the problems the class has. I read all the threads about scouts have to little health,ECT, But you just can't have the cake and eat it.

I'm also happy with the Scout as a whole, considering the EHP, slots and CPU/PG. With eventual minor adjustments, but the real problem is that the Scout as of now has no unique roll to fill which the other suits can't do better or equally good.

So there is no real benefit of playing the Scout as a Scout should be played.

Even the role as a Sniper can many times be executed better with basically all the other suits.

I'm not advocating any of that at all. For the large part I think the actual stats of the class should remain pretty close to what it is now (you can see I didn't say anything about changing it at all and in fact specifically mention that adjusting those stats would be a detriment and approaching the problem from the wrong angles). A closer look at my post would reveal that what I'm suggesting is more of a espionage based counter play that would eschew the front-line style game play. I think the reason scouts feel the need to want all these things is because the role they were born to play isn't available, so their looking to fill the gap with the roles they do know ARE available in the game and somehow apply it to the scout paradigm. This is an ultimately unhealthy perspective that would just muddy up the gray areas that are already known to be problematic.

maybe the pilot suit should go through the scout tree.

I'm also happy with the Scout as a whole, considering the EHP, slots and CPU/PG. With eventual minor adjustments, but the real problem is that the Scout as of now has no unique roll to fill which the other suits can't do better or equally good.

So there is no real benefit of playing the Scout as a Scout should be played.

Even the role as a Sniper can many times be executed better with basically all the other suits.

Well, maybe it's not THAT little.

So, scouts have been hurting for a while now as where they currently stand is just a slightly faster medium suit with far less options. I see scout potential as being something tremendous when utilized properly, provided the opportunities existed for them to shine. That got me thinking about HOW to make that possible without disrupting the delicate balance between suit classes. Many people are calling for additional slots, additional PG/CPU or additional item slots, and adding any of these to the scout suits all present their own obstacles that don't effectively address the problem which is that of utility. Scouts needs to be more functional without stepping into the realm of the logi by adding another equipment slot. This is the solution that occurred to me:

Add a new type of equipment slot. Specifically for scout related items. Something along the lines of Gadgets or Devices. This equipment slot would be for items that specifically benefit the scout and that style of game play. The Device slot would work the same way sidearms work to Light Weapon slots, or Light Weapons to Heavy Weapon Slots. They would be a specific variant that can be equipped on their own special slot, but being as they still count as equipment then can ALSO be equipped to an equipment slot. This would allow for cross play between classes while specifically boosting scout abilities.

So, how will it be implemented? The immediate balance notion I considered was to have two scout suits with double device slots (probably the Gallente and Caldari, but CCP can handle balancing), one suit with the regular Equipment slot, and then one suit with a Equipment and a Device slot. This gives an amount of versatility and variables between the possible load-outs of the different suits.

So, what equipment would be Devices?

Active Scanners, for one. This would allow for Scouts to make use of and benefit from Active Scanners more than any other class by having a slot ready for their use.

Active Camouflage, when that is released, will absolutely fall under this category as well. It's 100% designed as scout equipment.

Certain variants of already available equipment can be amended as Device slots, as well. For example perhaps the Compact Nanohive would fit the concept really well while heavier nanohives would still be relegated to full equipment.

Another idea I had that would be ideal for a Device slot as well would be an EWAR item that interferes with and disrupts active scanning through use of misinformation. This would be with an ewar item that CREATES margin of error in scans. And generates false enemy chevrons as you increase from STD to ADV. So that way you're not always sure if your margin of error is accurate or the enemy messing up your scanning. Would very much fix the problem in an elegant way and maintains the information/counter information flow of the battlefield, ultimately leading to a much richer and complex environment. If Active Scanners defeat the items scan profile than the item location is shown instead.

And in addition most other EWAR related items would be Device candidates, as well.

I think this really opens up a lot of possibilities to help break the class wide open as one of utility and deceit by establishing the opportunities to make use of those categories without pushing the scout in a direction where it's encroaching on the territory of equipment based logistic suits.

I'm not sure what you mean, also I'm not sure which role the Pilot is meant to fill. Or I can guess what the role will be but I'm unaware of which specific attributes and such it will have, to make it optimal for said role.

Your concept is ok, but your suggested executions don't mate well with current EVE universe logic...

What I mean is, in EVE any ship with enough CPU can fit a cloaking device. Hell battleships and captial ships often fit the things as well as various large transports etc. So by extension I could see medium and heavy suits getting them in DUST. Hell I could see a variant of the medium being the one to get a specific bonus for it.

Instead, for the scout how about thinking about the current issues people hate with the active scanner. The major reason to not want all that shield and armor that mediums and heavies carry is for faster speed and SMALLER SIGNATURE. So give them a signature bonus that makes them less likely to be actively scanned or impossible to be scanned by a medium, heavy, or vehicle active scanner.. But that's OP? Well to balance it out also give them a bonus to using active scanners that makes it so that only scouts are able to scan out scouts.

There ya go, now scouts are the only ones likely to sneak into place while at the same time still being needed to scan out other scouts.

Message from Godin: To answer your question, the Pilot suit is to boost the performance of vehicles. It doesn't have anything to do with the problem of Scouts.

Anyways, I would have rather taken:

1: Stamina nerf removal

2: Scout oriented weapons to be lowered in their fitting cost (like Shotguns, and maybe PLC, etc.)

3: added equipment slot (all of the suits should get this imo)

4: Anything EWAR related eq. gets nerfed

5: Based on racial preferences, each Scout Suit gets buffed for said equipment (ex. Gallente gets buffed for Active scanners. It should buff them near the strength as they are now.

It would basically do the same thing, but allow for roles that we can sorta do now such as the speedy medic, or the uplink placer/saboteur (RE's). That would mean that Scouts could have creative and fun roles that can't be topped by a Logi or Assault, making us useful. Although your idea is basically the same result, it limits everyone on what they could use for equipment, lowering diversity.

Also, as a side note this would start leading towards meaningful tech 2 frames, and hopefully soon after better Tech 1 suits, as well as tiercide.

I think we're coming from the same line of thought. My only issue is with increased equipment slots across the board the role and purpose of the logistic suit starts to get drastically diminished. Finding a way to open up more equipment options for scouts without hurting the logistics class as a equipment based class is a fine line to walk. I did mention that for certain some versions of the suit should have Equipment slots and one Equipment + Device slots so this would still very much be a possibility to open up options for any equipment you still want to run without giving complete turnover to all equipment possibilities. It's a really delicate balance that would be beneficial for one class by a long shot without having people jumping ship looking for the next big thing.

[quote=Jadd Hatchen]I think you misread what I wrote. All Devices would be equipable in all Equipment slots. They would be the same as fitting a Light Weapon in a Heavy Weapon slot. This wouldn't change what you're suggesting at all, but instead give scouts specific equipment that they could make better use of.

I think we're coming from the same line of thought. My only issue is with increased equipment slots across the board the role and purpose of the logistic suit starts to get drastically diminished. Finding a way to open up more equipment options for scouts without hurting the logistics class as a equipment based class is a fine line to walk. I did mention that for certain some versions of the suit should have Equipment slots and one Equipment + Device slots so this would still very much be a possibility to open up options for any equipment you still want to run without giving complete turnover to all equipment possibilities. It's a really delicate balance that would be beneficial for one class by a long shot without having people jumping ship looking for the next big thing.

Nope I didn't, you missed my point. Why make more complicated categories with artificial reasons why others couldn't use the same equipment. Equipment is equipment. Any suuit can use it as long as they have the right PG and CPU and slots to fit it. Period. No "scout only" stuffs. Instead work within the system already established as that affects the coding less.

Nope I didn't, you missed my point. Why make more complicated categories with artificial reasons why others couldn't use the same equipment. Equipment is equipment. Any suuit can use it as long as they have the right PG and CPU and slots to fit it. Period. No "scout only" stuffs. Instead work within the system already established as that affects the coding less.

I still think you're missing it if you think the equipment is "scouts only" in any way. It isn't. At all. Once again, Device equipment would be able to be equipped by anyone with an equipment slot. There would be no scout only equipment.

Interesting discussion. My thoughts.

New Item Slot: This looks like it will give scouts the ability to hold more gear but the extra gear will be limited. I'm ok with this as I'm sure any true scout wouldn't want to waste the slot on things like rep tools injectors when they can have both uplinks and scanners (scout items) instead.

Scouts shouldn't try to play multiple roles: True... but then again have you seen the other suits? Heavies are sniping, assault and logis are doing EVERYTHING! Leaving no room for the scout. If you don't give them a role then don't be surprised when you're getting Rambo revived by a MLT scout that's just trying to make a living.

Cloaking: Will not be completely invisible, just transparent (pay attention and you can still see them but an assault or logibro will be too busy to notice.)

@Jadd: You did, infact, miss what he is trying to say. How bout for the sake of the discussion we change "Equipment" and "Device" to "Large" and "Small" respectively. You can fit an active scanner (Small) in a large slot which every suit will still have, but you can't fit Rep tool (Large) in a scout's small slot just like with sidearm, light, and heavy weapons. You can put a sidearm in light slot, which everyone has, but cannot put a light weapon in a sidearm slot. Get it?

Final Thoughts: Wow, ever since the new games came out there have been many, many fewer D bags... Really puts a smile on meh face.

@Jadd: You did, infact, miss what he is trying to say. How bout for the sake of the discussion we change "Equipment" and "Device" to "Large" and "Small" respectively. You can fit an active scanner (Small) in a large slot which every suit will still have, but you can't fit Rep tool (Large) in a scout's small slot just like with sidearm, light, and heavy weapons. You can put a sidearm in light slot, which everyone has, but cannot put a light weapon in a sidearm slot. Get it?

Final Thoughts: Wow, ever since the new games came out there have been many, many fewer D bags... Really puts a smile on meh face.

No, I'm saying do NOT split equipment types. Meaning no large, medium, small or whatever categories for equipment types. Just plain equipment. What I was saying was to fix the ROLE BONUSES that come with the SCOUT SUIT. Meaning that if a non-scout picks up a scanner, they get the regular functions of that scanner... nothing special.

But if a scout picks up that SAME scanner and uses it they get like a 5% per level bonus on the dB to use it and thus are possibly 25% more likely to detect things with it. Maybe even give them a 5% per level bonus to range with the scanner too.

In addition, make scouts inherently "undetectable" to non-scouts using scanners. A non-scout can still reliably scan and detect everything else like they do now, but scouts would have a signature bonus that makes them much less likely to be scanned by a non-scout using a scanner.

BUT, when a scout with the role bonus of being able to use a scanner does a scan, they will be able to pick up even other scouts when scanning. This makes scouts needed as the "eyes" of the battlefield for both offense and defense.

That's what I've been saying.

No, I'm saying do NOT split equipment types. Meaning no large, medium, small or whatever categories for equipment types. Just plain equipment. What I was saying was to fix the ROLE BONUSES that come with the SCOUT SUIT. Meaning that if a non-scout picks up a scanner, they get the regular functions of that scanner... nothing special.

But if a scout picks up that SAME scanner and uses it they get like a 5% per level bonus on the dB to use it and thus are possibly 25% more likely to detect things with it. Maybe even give them a 5% per level bonus to range with the scanner too.

In addition, make scouts inherently "undetectable" to non-scouts using scanners. A non-scout can still reliably scan and detect everything else like they do now, but scouts would have a signature bonus that makes them much less likely to be scanned by a non-scout using a scanner.

BUT, when a scout with the role bonus of being able to use a scanner does a scan, they will be able to pick up even other scouts when scanning. This makes scouts needed as the "eyes" of the battlefield for both offense and defense.

That's what I've been saying.

I prefer the active module slot idea more so than "scout only equipment", you can actually make lore sense with modules designed to fit into the scout suit. It is harder for me to picture an "scout scanner" with a handle that only a scout knows how to grip.

?????
How much of the thread did you actually read?

No one suggested anything about "Scout only equipment".

Yea, I get that. Your comments just lead me to believe you were confused. Keep in mind that the idea is giving scouts another slot (like most of us keep asking for) but limiting what they can equip so that logis are still the go to suits for equipment.

Personally, I kinda like your idea as it would give more of an incentive for scouts to stick with scout tactics and gear.

These ideas are like two sides of the same coin. Both give scouts purpose but they go about it in completely different ways.

Yeah, I don't understand why people keep reading that when it's no where near anything in this thread. It's like people are going out of their way to derail the conversation.

Add a new type of equipment slot. Specifically for scout related items.

?????
How much of the thread did you actually read?

No one suggested anything about "Scout only equipment".

It's because the original post didn't break it down simply enough, so I will here just for clarification's sake. I do NOT support this idea, I instead support the idea of reworking the racial and role bonuses for ALL the suits instead.

So basically you divide equipment into TWO categories based upon size: large and small. A scout would only be able to fit like two smalls, while everyone else would have the same equipment slots that they have now and it would be counted as a large slot.

List of SMALL equipment items that a scout could carry:
compact nano-hive (one instance with no armor repair) = small
compact drop uplink (limited number of spawns) = small
nanite injectors (all of them) = small
scanners (all of them) = small
compact repair tool (reps dropsuits only) = small
compact remote explosive (half damage and area of effect of a normal RE) = small

Then everything else that is not in the above list is counted as a large equipment item and scouts could not use them. However any other suit could use any of the small equipment items because you would be albe to fit either a small OR a large item into a large equipment slot.

Why this is unbalancing? Because it effectively grants scouts a second equipment slot taking away from the purpose of the logistics suit. It also begs the question, why can't I put two small items into a large slot? It means that scouts become less dependent upon team-mates to coordinate and bring in the equipment that they are not providing for themselves.

Don't get me wrong. I fully believe that at some later date there can and should be a version of a light suit (not the scout) that lets you carry two or more equipment items. I just don't believe that the scout suit is it. To clarify that:

Light Suit ===> Scout Suit or Pilot Suit or some other suit (EWAR)? etc.

Medium Suit ===> Assault Suit or Logistics Suit or some other suit (cloaking)? etc.

A scout suit is for scouting and should do that, not become some kinda logistics suit. We already have one of those.