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Saoa Scum
Judge Mercenaries
33
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Posted - 2013.12.02 12:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ekrano Fergus wrote:When you think about it dust high slots are more like eve mid slots, while weapon and equipment slots would be high slots in eve.
Actually its just like in eve... look at the names on the slot layout and it says midslots where extenders go..the highslot is actually your weapon.. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
299
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Posted - 2013.12.02 13:39:00 -
[32] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I've always found it strange that weapon damage modules are high slot items.
Shield tanks are supposed to be hit and run, high damage, low HP units designed to do burst DPS then take cover to regenerate their HP quickly. The majority of shield modules are high slot items.
Armor units are supposed to be slightly slower, moderate damage units with high HP designed to sit and take a lot of damage over a longer period of time, and thus tend to have pretty solid defenses but with longer regeneration times. Armor modules are generally low slot items.
So why the hell are weapon damage mods high slot? Should the high damage output benefit, supposedly retained for shield units, not be low slot items? Instead they are built more for armor units because they don't infringe on the defensive slots that armor tanks rely on.
As it stands armor is capable of significantly more base HP which is augmented by more benefit from armor skills. This allows massive amounts of effective HP, and then paired with damage mods in the high slots, allows them to have a full gambit defenses as well as the most damage output.
I'm by no mean suggesting a massive nerf or buff to shields/armor, but I feel it would make a lot more sense if those damage modules were low slot items, and would alleviate much of the problems we currently see with Gallente units.
EDIT: To clarify, this change would probably be best paired with a move of many current Lot-Slot utility modules, to High-Slot. This would solidify the concept that shield units get more damage output, and armor units get more utility.
There is already a small amount of usefull H-Slot modules and a great range of L-slot modules and you want to further extend that gap?
Maybe CCP should start to give is more H-Slot options instead of shield or damage...
BTW Hit and Run does not automatically means High Damage it is more go in fast and retreat fast to recover, shield tanker already could do that if they would use their speed to retreat instead of (rather useless) strafing around.... |
Logi Bro
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
2429
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Posted - 2013.12.02 14:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Yep, shield tankers should definitely have literally every single useful utility module. Oh, and armour tankers should shield tank.
I don't think you read this thread correctly. The only useful utility modules that shield tankers have as of 1.7 are ammo caches. They need their high slots for tanking, so they can't use those.
No, I am not CCP Logibro.
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Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
592
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Posted - 2013.12.02 14:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Which slots do the damage mods go in EVE?
Munch
What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1152
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
Poonmunch wrote:Which slots do the damage mods go in EVE?
Munch
Typically Low. There are a few exceptions but generally speaking they're low slot items. Scanners, EWAR, Target Painters, ect go in Medium Slots, though in Dust that means High. (High Slots in EVE are for weapons and a handful of other modules. Medium Slots in EVE are equivalent to High slots in Dust.)
ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
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ZiwZih
Seraphim Initiative..
277
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:59:00 -
[36] - Quote
Posting in stealth make shield tanking more manly thread.
ZEN 514
Novi Eden na na+íem jeziku GÇö eveonline.rs
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Saoa Scum
Judge Mercenaries
37
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Posted - 2013.12.02 21:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Poonmunch wrote:Which slots do the damage mods go in EVE?
Munch Typically Low. There are a few exceptions but generally speaking they're low slot items. Scanners, EWAR, Target Painters, ect go in Medium Slots, though in Dust that means High. (High Slots in EVE are for weapons and a handful of other modules. Medium Slots in EVE are equivalent to High slots in Dust.)
Ive said this in another thread but i say it again.. Next time you create a new fit, look at the names on the slot layout and you will see the highslot is your weapon slot.. midslots are where shield extenders go and so on... Just like in eve!
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CharCharOdell
1718
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Posted - 2013.12.02 21:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Because every race has their specific 'perfect build'. GA: damage mods and armor plates CA: Shields and biotics/electronics MN: damage mods and biotics/electronics AM: shields and armor
Changing the location of these would mess with the entire balance of things. Without DMG in HS, all the gallente would use are shields or microfibil stims
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
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Agrios Endendros
Single Serving Friends
58
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Posted - 2013.12.02 21:54:00 -
[39] - Quote
Honestly, I think Dmg mods and biotics, and maybe even CPU/PG enhancers, should be universal and able to be placed in high or low slots at the same time.
Alts: Haruko Endendros, Canti Endendros, & Zero Endendros
Play Dust! Join Here!
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Happy Violentime
L0ST PR0FITS
144
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Posted - 2013.12.02 22:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Why are they high slot items.
Well, that's so people like you can ***** and moan about themGǪ. |
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
8207
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Posted - 2013.12.02 22:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
That would totally invalidate basically all my fits
ISK / Vids / Stream
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Happy Violentime
L0ST PR0FITS
144
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Posted - 2013.12.02 22:11:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:You do understand that armor and shields at the prototype level have near exact same HP values right? My Gallente assault - 504 My Caldari Assault: 490~
Not sure what these numbers are related to? is that 504 meant to be the armour you have on your gallante proto assault with armour plates?
If so.. that kinda sucks I generally run with over 540 armour on a Gallente starter fit (with militia plates) |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10965
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Posted - 2013.12.02 22:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
Its probably lore related and balance related
Low slots are stuff underneath the skinweave or inside the clone itself.
High slots are stuff you attach to the outside of the suit.
Similar to eve's high mid and low slots.
High slots are mostly surface mounted modules and most even have models. Mid slots are in the defense layer. Low slots are deep ship core items.
As for balance it creates a synergy and gives value to a certain slot.
For example a suit with lets say 5 high slots and 1 low slot speaks a lot for what it can and cannot do. Most of you would instantly think. Shield + Damage Tank because both module types find their homes there.
In an FPS environment going SLOWER is bad, generally. So to make up for it they have better health and access to better damage but generally armor tankers don't have many high slots.
Shield tankers have high mobility and relatively high up time and can engage far more frequently thus damage is not as important as oh say speed to duck in and out of combat which is a low slot item.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Infantry Armoring =// Unlocked
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Tch Tch
Red Shirts Away Team
22
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Posted - 2013.12.02 22:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
A) Mid slots could be added B) I thought the layers were based on where they were on the suit. Armour on the inside, shields on the outside. Turret er weapon damage mods near the weapons, CPUs on the inside etc
Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
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Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
596
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Posted - 2013.12.02 22:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:In an FPS environment going SLOWER is bad, generally. So to make up for it they have better health and access to better damage but generally armor tankers don't have many high slots.
Shield tankers have high mobility and relatively high up time and can engage far more frequently thus damage is not as important as oh say speed to duck in and out of combat which is a low slot item. This ^^
You people seriously want to be able to run rings round armour tankers AND out DPS them !? |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1156
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Posted - 2013.12.02 23:02:00 -
[46] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:In an FPS environment going SLOWER is bad, generally. So to make up for it they have better health and access to better damage but generally armor tankers don't have many high slots.
Shield tankers have high mobility and relatively high up time and can engage far more frequently thus damage is not as important as oh say speed to duck in and out of combat which is a low slot item. This ^^ You people seriously want to be able to run rings round armour tankers AND out DPS them !?
It really comes down to what sort of roles the developers envision for armor/shield. Admittedly I can't read their minds and don't have as much of a communication with them as I like, so I'm not sure what their overall vision is.
I suppose the real question I raise about this is, how should shield units better deal with damage mod stacked armor units? There is a problem currently with the system feeling one sided (Funny since shields were far superior before). I
ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
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mini rehak
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
142
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Posted - 2013.12.02 23:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:
Shield tanks are supposed to be hit and run, high damage, low HP units designed to do burst DPS then take cover to regenerate their HP quickly. The majority of shield modules are high slot items.
You do realize that if you run Damage mods on a Shield based dropsuit you are running high damage low hp?
Know that you mean nothing to me,Nor the lies that seep from your teeth.
Won't piss on you if you're on fire.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1156
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Posted - 2013.12.02 23:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
mini rehak wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:
Shield tanks are supposed to be hit and run, high damage, low HP units designed to do burst DPS then take cover to regenerate their HP quickly. The majority of shield modules are high slot items.
You do realize that if you run Damage mods on a Shield based dropsuit you are running high damage low hp?
I'm referring to the fact that shield extenders offer far less HP than armor plates.
Whereas right now armor can run High HP, High Damage
EDIT: Also, I dont have the values available at the moment, but are Gallente and Caldari dropsuits the same movement speed? If so, the Gallente should be increased to offset that speed penalty from armor modules.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10966
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Posted - 2013.12.02 23:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
Well if an armor tanker wanted to have lots of HP and go fast, he can't reliably do it, because one plate is more than enough to cancel the effects of any kinkat he could install.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Infantry Armoring =// Unlocked
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1157
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Posted - 2013.12.02 23:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well if an armor tanker wanted to have lots of HP and go fast, he can't reliably do it, because one plate is more than enough to cancel the effects of any kinkat he could install.
You raise some good points, though I'm still not entirely convinced that the current setup is ideal. We should get together and chat sometime about some of these topics, I'd enjoy your insight.
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Dimmu Borgir II
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
179
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Posted - 2013.12.02 23:54:00 -
[51] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:High power slots makes more sense than low power for damage mods. Low power mods that increase damage could be a tracking computer that reduce weapon spread.
Yes. I am playing eve xD A RoF Module would be awesome awesome for low slots. but no time soon of course.
A roll on floor module?? I want me one of those, I'd stack three complex ROF modules and roll to the objective really freaking fast... maybe the complex module could be a ROFL module... just an idea.
Blue is good, red is bad, orange you glad you're not red?
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1828
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Posted - 2013.12.03 00:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I've always found it strange that weapon damage modules are high slot items.
Shield tanks are supposed to be hit and run, high damage, low HP units designed to do burst DPS then take cover to regenerate their HP quickly. The majority of shield modules are high slot items.
Armor units are supposed to be slightly slower, moderate damage units with high HP designed to sit and take a lot of damage over a longer period of time, and thus tend to have pretty solid defenses but with longer regeneration times. Armor modules are generally low slot items.
So why the hell are weapon damage mods high slot? Should the high damage output benefit, supposedly retained for shield units, not be low slot items? Instead they are built more for armor units because they don't infringe on the defensive slots that armor tanks rely on.
As it stands armor is capable of significantly more base HP which is augmented by more benefit from armor skills. This allows massive amounts of effective HP, and then paired with damage mods in the high slots, allows them to have a full gambit defenses as well as the most damage output.
I'm by no mean suggesting a massive nerf or buff to shields/armor, but I feel it would make a lot more sense if those damage modules were low slot items, and would alleviate much of the problems we currently see with Gallente units.
EDIT: To clarify, this change would probably be best paired with a move of many current Lot-Slot utility modules, to High-Slot. This would solidify the concept that shield units get more damage output, and armor units get more utility. Ok Green and Red Mods need to be Highs like ABs,MWDs,Cap Boosters/Batteries
Level 1 Forum Warrior
I'm a bittervet, if I seem like a douche it's because of your stupidity
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10968
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Posted - 2013.12.03 00:36:00 -
[53] - Quote
Dimmu Borgir II wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:High power slots makes more sense than low power for damage mods. Low power mods that increase damage could be a tracking computer that reduce weapon spread.
Yes. I am playing eve xD A RoF Module would be awesome awesome for low slots. but no time soon of course. A roll on floor module?? I want me one of those, I'd stack three complex ROF modules and roll to the objective really freaking fast... maybe the complex module could be a ROFL module... just an idea.
Rate of Fire.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Infantry Armoring =// Unlocked
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