DUST Search - Dmg mods the debate

Zelorian Dexter snr wrote:

Ok so I have seen a lot of calls for Dmg mods to be nerfed or removed from the game. I was just wondering why it appears to be mainly Calassult calling for this.

lets look at the racial suits of Gallente and Caldari. Gallente favour armour over shields and obviously Caldari are the reverse.

Now Gallente by there very nature are high hp massive dps close to mid range. But we have to forsake movement speed and overall passive battle field awareness as our low slots are filled with plates. We have so little shield that our high slots are only really viable for increased Dmg output.

Now Caldari are highly mobile shield tankers that use there high slots for tanking but leaves there low slots to be filled with goodies such as kincats cardiac regulators and so on.

Now I do play both suits and both require totally different play styles. If your shield tanking and you run at a Gallente you are going to die very very quickly but use your added speed to flank and push the sides.

where as if im armour tanking I push up the middle using cover and laying down hard hitting suppression onto the enemy line.

I always find it strange that people always have to hate on something thats killing them on here instead of trying to figure out a way of countering the threat.

I don't believe they need to be changed especially as your rail rifle is deploying soon which means your going to out ranging Gallente fire anyway.

Just like in EVE ones close range the other is long.

I dont really know much about the other races as I have no interest in bling and duct tape.

So post your thoughts

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Zelorian Dexter snr 8thDivision 80	Posted - 2013.11.30 13:10:00 - [1] - Quote Ok so I have seen a lot of calls for Dmg mods to be nerfed or removed from the game. I was just wondering why it appears to be mainly Calassult calling for this. lets look at the racial suits of Gallente and Caldari. Gallente favour armour over shields and obviously Caldari are the reverse. Now Gallente by there very nature are high hp massive dps close to mid range. But we have to forsake movement speed and overall passive battle field awareness as our low slots are filled with plates. We have so little shield that our high slots are only really viable for increased Dmg output. Now Caldari are highly mobile shield tankers that use there high slots for tanking but leaves there low slots to be filled with goodies such as kincats cardiac regulators and so on. Now I do play both suits and both require totally different play styles. If your shield tanking and you run at a Gallente you are going to die very very quickly but use your added speed to flank and push the sides. where as if im armour tanking I push up the middle using cover and laying down hard hitting suppression onto the enemy line. I always find it strange that people always have to hate on something thats killing them on here instead of trying to figure out a way of countering the threat. I don't believe they need to be changed especially as your rail rifle is deploying soon which means your going to out ranging Gallente fire anyway. Just like in EVE ones close range the other is long. I dont really know much about the other races as I have no interest in bling and duct tape. So post your thoughts
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5625	Posted - 2013.11.30 13:15:00 - [2] - Quote Removing damage mods leaves shield extenders as literally the only viable high slot module. What else is there? Myofibril stimulants, on a reduced speed suit? Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1864	Posted - 2013.11.30 13:47:00 - [3] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Removing damage mods leaves shield extenders as literally the only viable high slot module. What else is there? Myofibril stimulants, on a reduced speed suit? They should remove them, but only after they have put more high slot modules into the game. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle I'll take your Iskies
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1864	Posted - 2013.11.30 13:49:00 - [4] - Quote It's slightly CCPs fault too, why can a Caldari suit brick tank better than an amarr suit if amarr were supposed to be the true brick tankers? "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle I'll take your Iskies
Zelorian Dexter snr 8thDivision 82	Posted - 2013.11.30 13:50:00 - [5] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Removing damage mods leaves shield extenders as literally the only viable high slot module. What else is there? Myofibril stimulants, on a reduced speed suit? They should remove them, but only after they have put more high slot modules into the game. I like this idea
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 1057	Posted - 2013.11.30 13:51:00 - [6] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Removing damage mods leaves shield extenders as literally the only viable high slot module. What else is there? Myofibril stimulants, on a reduced speed suit? They should remove them, but only after they have put more high slot modules into the game. Armor Hardeners and Heat Sinks for the glory of God! [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Level 1 Forum Warrior The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2383	Posted - 2013.11.30 13:55:00 - [7] - Quote Damage mods affect game balance in the same way shield extenders do. People just don't like dying quickly. They need to get over it. No.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 2151	Posted - 2013.11.30 14:05:00 - [8] - Quote Make damage modules a rof bonus, so you are still dealing more damage in a shorter amount of it move, but at the cost of wasting ammunition faster if you spray. "When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
castba Penguin's March 221	Posted - 2013.11.30 14:08:00 - [9] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Make damage modules a rof bonus, so you are still dealing more damage in a shorter amount of it move, but at the cost of wasting ammunition faster if you spray. How is that useful for forge and plasma cannon users? I Support SP Rollover
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 1057	Posted - 2013.11.30 14:10:00 - [10] - Quote castba wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: Make damage modules a rof bonus, so you are still dealing more damage in a shorter amount of it move, but at the cost of wasting ammunition faster if you spray. How is that useful for forge and plasma cannon users? It isn't. Too bad for non AR users huh? ScR users would get trivial use out of this too. Pretty much everything but ARs, AScRs, and SMGs would get shafted with this idea. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Level 1 Forum Warrior The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered

Saoa Scum Judge Mercenaries 25	Posted - 2013.11.30 14:11:00 - [11] - Quote Zelorian Dexter snr wrote: Ok so I have seen a lot of calls for Dmg mods to be nerfed or removed from the game. I was just wondering why it appears to be mainly Calassult calling for this. lets look at the racial suits of Gallente and Caldari. Gallente favour armour over shields and obviously Caldari are the reverse. Now Gallente by there very nature are high hp massive dps close to mid range. But we have to forsake movement speed and overall passive battle field awareness as our low slots are filled with plates. We have so little shield that our high slots are only really viable for increased Dmg output. Now Caldari are highly mobile shield tankers that use there high slots for tanking but leaves there low slots to be filled with goodies such as kincats cardiac regulators and so on. Now I do play both suits and both require totally different play styles. If your shield tanking and you run at a Gallente you are going to die very very quickly but use your added speed to flank and push the sides. where as if im armour tanking I push up the middle using cover and laying down hard hitting suppression onto the enemy line. I always find it strange that people always have to hate on something thats killing them on here instead of trying to figure out a way of countering the threat. I don't believe they need to be changed especially as your rail rifle is deploying soon which means your going to out ranging Gallente fire anyway. Just like in EVE ones close range the other is long. I dont really know much about the other races as I have no interest in bling and duct tape. So post your thoughts Have you ever played Eve? Where does it say anything bout gallente having massive dps and massive tank? As far as i know the amarr are the "tanky" ones. In Eve a shield tanking brawler fit works just as good as an armor brawler and in Eve dps modules are in low slot Armor tanker can use ferrorscale plates instead of normal ones ( no speed penalty )..sure it only gives you 75hp but the extender only gives 66, i guess the natural regen on shields makes up for this so seemingly balanced but using the logic "gives up speed for more tank" fails and here is why Improved hit detection and current TTK "speed tanking" is close to nullified wich makes my "superior speed" (seriously.. roughly 0,5 faster? ) useless. And the recharge rate/regulation is so far off timewise (compared to how fast you actually kill a target) to make it useless... Combine your armor tanking with a nanohive that reps you (70hp?) and/or a Logi repping you 175hp (seriously wtf? ) per second... So the actual difference between armor tanking and shield tanking is: Armor Benefits: More Ehp ( roughly 40-70% more? ) More Dps ( every highslot ) Low Cost on PG/CPU Drawbacks: Slower movement (wich can be avoided by sacrificing 1 single lowslot to a katalyzer, might even increase the speed) Shield Benefits: It regens...can throw myself into another fight faster ( lol )... Drawbacks: Less Ehp Less Dps High Cost on PG/CPU Looking at it like this...what would you prefer?..Armor or shields?.. i would had picked Armor every single time... Conclusion Move dps modules to low slots!!! :)
4447 Resolution XIII 881	Posted - 2013.11.30 14:16:00 - [12] - Quote This is all about logi being able to have damage mods plus, armour mods on one suit this causing unbalance. maybe i could be wrong Troll, For lifeGÇª But maybe a dragon, uh a bigger dragon.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 330	Posted - 2013.11.30 14:54:00 - [13] - Quote Saoa Scum wrote: Shield Benefits: It regens...can throw myself into another fight faster ( lol )... Drawbacks: Less Ehp Less Dps High Cost on PG/CPU Looking at it like this...what would you prefer?..Armor or shields?.. i would had picked Armor every single time... Conclusion Move dps modules to low slots!!! :) Well this is completely over simplifying. 1) Plates use more PG than Shields. 2) Supporting mods for armor use lots of PG, shields less so. 3) CPU/PG mods go in lows so you can throw these on. 4) DMG mods have the HIGHEST fitting requirement. Also you assume an armor tanker equips DMG mods, what's the shield tanker using on his lows? He can be dampened, super fast with biotics, sense enemies further, hack faster, CPU/PG buff. That's definitely an advantage, may not make up for the brick tank low TTK but that's a poor dev choice. Man I'm a shield tanker and you cannot take DMG mods away from armor tankers. These wouldn't be that big of a deal if the weapons were more balanced. The AR and ScR are so far above anything in this game and they happen to hit shields harder. Let's bring the AR class back to earth first.
nor asha Turbo Bros inc. 35	Posted - 2013.11.30 15:42:00 - [14] - Quote THERE IS NO DEBATE As a closed beta tester of EVE ONLINE I am ashamed of CCP for letting this go on so long. http://www.eve-search.com/thread/118871-0/page/1#27 It's been almost a decade since you learned your lesson about having damage mods with no stacking penalty.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 1059	Posted - 2013.11.30 15:48:00 - [15] - Quote nor asha wrote: THERE IS NO DEBATE As a closed beta tester of EVE ONLINE I am ashamed of CCP for letting this go on so long. http://www.eve-search.com/thread/118871-0/page/1#27 It's been almost a decade since you learned your lesson about having damage mods with no stacking penalty. But damage mods do have a stacking penalty... what's the big issue here? [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Level 1 Forum Warrior The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 1831	Posted - 2013.11.30 15:50:00 - [16] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: nor asha wrote: THERE IS NO DEBATE As a closed beta tester of EVE ONLINE I am ashamed of CCP for letting this go on so long. http://www.eve-search.com/thread/118871-0/page/1#27 It's been almost a decade since you learned your lesson about having damage mods with no stacking penalty. But damage mods do have a stacking penalty... what's the big issue here? Is it maybe not enough? When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE!
4447 Resolution XIII 881	Posted - 2013.11.30 15:52:00 - [17] - Quote maybe damage mods need a - movement on them to. Troll, For lifeGÇª But maybe a dragon, uh a bigger dragon.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 293	Posted - 2013.11.30 15:54:00 - [18] - Quote nor asha wrote: THERE IS NO DEBATE As a closed beta tester of EVE ONLINE I am ashamed of CCP for letting this go on so long. http://www.eve-search.com/thread/118871-0/page/1#27 It's been almost a decade since you learned your lesson about having damage mods with no stacking penalty. There is already a stacking penalty on damage mods isn't there? You're also giving up a shield extender for every damage mod you use, in a game where brick tanking is the be all and end all. And to top it off, the CPU costs are ridiculous on damage mods. Just goes to show people will QQ about anything.
Cody Sietz Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 1646	Posted - 2013.11.30 15:56:00 - [19] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Removing damage mods leaves shield extenders as literally the only viable high slot module. What else is there? Myofibril stimulants, on a reduced speed suit? They should remove them, but only after they have put more high slot modules into the game. Move active plates to high slots, raise CPU consumption and lower PG usage. No more need for dmg mods? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
CharCharOdell 1703	Posted - 2013.11.30 15:58:00 - [20] - Quote No we shouldn't remove them. We should remove the weapon proficiency skill, instead. Gallente become useless without them. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4139	Posted - 2013.11.30 16:01:00 - [21] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: nor asha wrote: THERE IS NO DEBATE As a closed beta tester of EVE ONLINE I am ashamed of CCP for letting this go on so long. http://www.eve-search.com/thread/118871-0/page/1#27 It's been almost a decade since you learned your lesson about having damage mods with no stacking penalty. But damage mods do have a stacking penalty... what's the big issue here? Is it maybe not enough? By the third damage mod they already have half their effectiveness. The fourth makes it so that complex damage mods = basic damage mods. The fith has less than a 1% effectiveness. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 1064	Posted - 2013.11.30 16:03:00 - [22] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Fire of Prometheus wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Removing damage mods leaves shield extenders as literally the only viable high slot module. What else is there? Myofibril stimulants, on a reduced speed suit? They should remove them, but only after they have put more high slot modules into the game. Move active plates to high slots, raise CPU consumption and lower PG usage. No more need for dmg mods? Is this sarcasm? I expect better from you... [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Level 1 Forum Warrior The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 1832	Posted - 2013.11.30 16:03:00 - [23] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: No we shouldn't remove them. We should remove the weapon proficiency skill, instead. Gallente become useless without them. I'd rather have Damage Mods removed. Weapon Proficiency requires you to devote your time to the game and build up 1 mil+ SP for level 5. I think that part is fine. When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE!
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 1064	Posted - 2013.11.30 16:07:00 - [24] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: No we shouldn't remove them. We should remove the weapon proficiency skill, instead. Gallente become useless without them. I'd rather have Damage Mods removed. Weapon Proficiency requires you to devote your time to the game and build up 1 mil+ SP for level 5. I think that part is fine. I would rather have it do something else other than a straight damage buff. Proficiency allows a Standard Weapon to outDPS a Proto one, that seems OP to me. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Level 1 Forum Warrior The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5635	Posted - 2013.11.30 16:09:00 - [25] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Patrick57 wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: No we shouldn't remove them. We should remove the weapon proficiency skill, instead. Gallente become useless without them. I'd rather have Damage Mods removed. Weapon Proficiency requires you to devote your time to the game and build up 1 mil+ SP for level 5. I think that part is fine. I would rather have it do something else other than a straight damage buff. Proficiency allows a Standard Weapon to outDPS a Proto one, that seems OP to me. It's not particularly OP when the difference between a proto weapon and a standard weapon isn't very significant. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4139	Posted - 2013.11.30 16:12:00 - [26] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Patrick57 wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: No we shouldn't remove them. We should remove the weapon proficiency skill, instead. Gallente become useless without them. I'd rather have Damage Mods removed. Weapon Proficiency requires you to devote your time to the game and build up 1 mil+ SP for level 5. I think that part is fine. I would rather have it do something else other than a straight damage buff. Proficiency allows a Standard Weapon to outDPS a Proto one, that seems OP to me. It's not particularly OP when the difference between a proto weapon and a standard weapon isn't very significant. 10%. Proto weapons get VERY small bonuses for a rather large price. I stick with my GEK and only use Duvolles for PC matches. Even then I barely notice the difference between the two. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cody Sietz Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 1653	Posted - 2013.12.01 00:51:00 - [27] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Fire of Prometheus wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Removing damage mods leaves shield extenders as literally the only viable high slot module. What else is there? Myofibril stimulants, on a reduced speed suit? They should remove them, but only after they have put more high slot modules into the game. Move active plates to high slots, raise CPU consumption and lower PG usage. No more need for dmg mods? Is this sarcasm? I expect better from you... No? I just meant that if you moved reactive plates to the high slot, and give a different CPU/PG value then they would be more useful and actually give you something other then dmg nods for the high slot. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cosgar ParagonX 8121	Posted - 2013.12.01 00:57:00 - [28] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: No we shouldn't remove them. We should remove the weapon proficiency skill, instead. Gallente become useless without them. I'd rather have Damage Mods removed. Weapon Proficiency requires you to devote your time to the game and build up 1 mil+ SP for level 5. I think that part is fine. Damage mods require you to give up something, proficiency is a passive that's always on. CCP did the right thing by tying passive skills to what you equip instead of your character. Having proficiency add raw damage widens the SP gap and ruins weapon balance. Would you rather have all the guns usable at all tiers or have most of them only useful once you dump an extra million SP while others are flat out better at militia level? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 446	Posted - 2013.12.01 01:50:00 - [29] - Quote Zelorian Dexter snr wrote: Ok so I have seen a lot of calls for Dmg mods to be nerfed or removed from the game. I was just wondering why it appears to be mainly Calassult calling for this. lets look at the racial suits of Gallente and Caldari. Gallente favour armour over shields and obviously Caldari are the reverse. Now Gallente by there very nature are high hp massive dps close to mid range. But we have to forsake movement speed and overall passive battle field awareness as our low slots are filled with plates. We have so little shield that our high slots are only really viable for increased Dmg output. Now Caldari are highly mobile shield tankers that use there high slots for tanking but leaves there low slots to be filled with goodies such as kincats cardiac regulators and so on. Now I do play both suits and both require totally different play styles. If your shield tanking and you run at a Gallente you are going to die very very quickly but use your added speed to flank and push the sides. where as if im armour tanking I push up the middle using cover and laying down hard hitting suppression onto the enemy line. I always find it strange that people always have to hate on something thats killing them on here instead of trying to figure out a way of countering the threat. I don't believe they need to be changed especially as your rail rifle is deploying soon which means your going to out ranging Gallente fire anyway. Just like in EVE ones close range the other is long. I dont really know much about the other races as I have no interest in bling and duct tape. So post your thoughts You forgot to add that armor has no natural repair either, modules need, which take up vital lows for plate/HP stacking. {:)}{3GÇó>
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 201	Posted - 2013.12.01 02:47:00 - [30] - Quote As a cal assault I <3 dmg mods we can sac 1 extender for 1 mod It works good Christ is lord Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now. Even salads taste good deepfried..mmm grease



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